Ness

[DoodleDuck97]

If Mother and Mother 3 came overseas I will **** bricks(in a good way)

A Mother trilogy (Earthbound trilogy) Oh my god I would want that so bad :D

 

[ToferTheHuman]

I just don't understand why he couldn't be a ****ing alt costume like Alph.
****ing really?

 

[PKNinja95]

A Mother trilogy (Earthbound trilogy) Oh my god I would want that so bad :D

A Earthbound Trilogy would be great for the 3DS

 

[DoodleDuck97]

I just don't understand why he couldn't be a ****ing alt costume like Alph.
****ing really?

I wanted a Ninten alt then we could have had the three main characters, but Nooooo Sakurai just had to remove the second Mother rep didn't he. If Lucas isn't DLC I will be Pi**ed..

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

Does anyone have match footage of Ness using custom moves?

^^^

 

[DoodleDuck97]

I just realised how clever Sakurai is he probably is saving Lucas and Wolf for DLC :O Why do I think this well .. tell me how many of you would buy Dlc with clones like Dark Pit and Dr Mario ;P

 

[Yink]

^^^

You can see NinjaLink trying out his custom moves when he's streaming. He did some yesterday. http://www.twitch.tv/ninjalink

 

[Curious Villager]

Guys, not to be rude or anything and I know that his thread is not accessible anymore but can we kinda keep the topic a bit more on Ness please. (Unless we are talking about some of his custom moves that seem to be a bit based off Lucas's and all then I guess....)

 

[McCadi]

Well guys it seems like bair was nerfed, so now do we have less KO moves? (Bat, back throw...)

 

[ToferTheHuman]

Guys, not to be rude or anything and I know that his thread is not accessible anymore but can we kinda keep the topic a bit more on Ness please. (Unless we are talking about some of his custom moves that seem to be a bit based off Lucas's and all then I guess....)

First Sakurai, now you.
WHEN WILL LUCAS GET HIS BREAK?!


But forreal.
His Uair is ridiculously strong, from what I saw.
It comes out fast, hits hard, and kills at a good percent.
Can be used for an over head appproach and we call it.

 

[DoodleDuck97]

As of right now I refer to Ness as Lucess the combination of two of my mains. DLC

 

[ilysm]

I cannot express how psyched I am to play Ness in this iteration of Smash. The MOTHER games have always had a special place for me, and Ness has pretty much always been my official main. This new buffed-up version of him seems like a breath of fresh air!

By the way, speaking of kill moves, I heard his Dair was nerfed, but I was wondering if anyone knew exactly how nerfed are we talking? Is it still viable as a spiking tool? Dair spikes were one of my favorite parts of PM Ness, hate to see it go. Also, any word on video demonstrations of his custom moves?

 

[Tikao]

when i saw ness for the first time, he looked like he was buffed just a bit, making him like a middle of the pack charakter, but the more i see of him, the better he looks

bthrow should be still the strongest move in the game in term of killing power
his pk-fire is better simply because you can't DI it as easy, leading into grab -> dthrow, leading into combos
he got actual combos and strings this time (one of his biggest weaknesses in brawl) to deal actually good damage
his dthrow is a great combo starter into true combos i n that regard
ness' recovery goes farther, is harder to interrupt in the first few frames and safe now that he can recover to the edge
pkt1 is actually a great projectile
psi-magnet might be usefull in some matchups now that it is bigger and faster
pk-flash is still a bad move, but can actually be used to edgeguard people with linear recoveries who have been hit far to the side, since they will actually survive that now, with the new blastzones
fsmash kills like REAALY early, still not the fastest smash, but maybe even a tiiiny bit faster
literally EVERY aerial except dair is great and has uses

so overall ness used to be a low-mid ranged charakter who has one of the worst recoveries, can't combo properly while having no safe methode of racking up damage, while being just kinda decent at killing people to

a ness that can recover safe, has good combos, a spammable projectile, overall being able to rack up damage and, because of the blastzone changes, is actually one of the better charakters at killinmg people

oh and no grabrelease stuff

he seems to have the potential to actually be a hightier ranged charakter
nearly all of his problems, which hold him back in brawl, got fixed

he seems to be ATLEAST a mid-highmid charakter, and even that is a huge improvement


/edit : btw, just leaving this game here http://www.twitch.tv/zero/b/568984559 20:30
you can pretty much see a lot of Ness' improvements just in that game

 

[link and ike lover]

http://youtu.be/tShsxf2_GkM?list=UU-KuWeJ48G6rPA2lCgQirew

 

[ToferTheHuman]

Pretty much every Ness main when we get the game.

 

[Eight Melodies]

Ness hasn't been getting much sun lately looks like. He's looking a bit pale.

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

I've noticed that many characters can mash out attacks while in PK Fire (Zelda can be in PK Fire and still use nayru's, LMac can perform a counter attack while in pk fire, etc. etc.)

Also PK Thunder 2 looks really cool and good but I have yet to see opponents attacking pk thunder as a defense against it.

 

[Yink]

The good news for the little guy is that a lot of people (well, I say that but we'll see) seem to think custom moves should be allowed until proven otherwise. If that's the case, and Ness is allowed to use Lucas' PKT, then he'll have an easier time surviving.

Then again I don't see that many people trying to go offstage in general in this game yet, which is odd. It's a very low recovery-based game so far so why wouldn't you? Perhaps I'm just seeing the wrong matches.

 

[Tikao]

The good news for the little guy is that a lot of people (well, I say that but we'll see) seem to think custom moves should be allowed until proven otherwise. If that's the case, and Ness is allowed to use Lucas' PKT, then he'll have an easier time surviving.

Then again I don't see that many people trying to go offstage in general in this game yet, which is odd. It's a very low recovery-based game so far so why wouldn't you? Perhaps I'm just seeing the wrong matches.

Ness' pkt1 goes right through opponents in the first frames, so jumping in it would actually only work, if they position themself behind ness, and if you drop low and just recover to the edge, then it should be realy hard to punish this recovery, since it actually got good range now, so having lucas' pkt won't realy help you, and if you recover right, then opponents just risk their own stock by trying to catch you before you recover

and pkt1 is a good projectile now, you would have to hit a platform or the ground to cancel it, ness' pkt1 cancels when it hits the opponent, that should be better in that regard, since you can be easily punished otherwise
Lucas' pkt1 is also slower, so i just guess the custom move of lucas' pkt will be slower as well

but having Lucas' pk-fire would be realy sexy

 

[Yink]

Can you provide footage of PKT1 going through people for the first frames? I have never seen that in any Smash game. Also, the general consensus is that you do go behind Ness to stop the PKT1, because going in front would be your death wish unless you were really fast and just hit Ness out of doing PKT in general (which, if people challenge it they can do). Having Lucas' PKT truly go through people especially for tricky offstage situations is what he'd need and want, because you don't want to risk having to weave PKT around the person.

 

[Tikao]

Can you provide footage of PKT1 going through people for the first frames? I have never seen that in any Smash game. Also, the general consensus is that you do go behind Ness to stop the PKT1, because going in front would be your death wish unless you were really fast and just hit Ness out of doing PKT in general (which, if people challenge it they can do). Having Lucas' PKT truly go through people especially for tricky offstage situations is what he'd need and want, because you don't want to risk having to weave PKT around the person.

the point is you can recover from far more away, because pkt2 goes further and you always have the edge to recover to
if you recover from a safe distance, then people just wont be able to get behind you and jump into it

it's not like you can't stop his recovery, but if you recover the right way in this game, then jumping into your pkt1 shouldn't be a problem, making the custom lucas up-b bad, since you won't get any benefits and you can't use pkt1 as a good projectile anymore

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cq2fkkQnVGI&list=UU5WNBHwgluAwWJE5QV-5_TA&index=1 around 20:40
here you can see pkt1 going through your opponent in the first frames of the move, was a bad position to be in after the dair lag, nairo chalanged the recovery and regardless of his tech, he died after it
since both were at their last stocks, nairo won, but this clip shows how instead of just jumping into it, he kill himself, and without the tech, he could have died before ness

 

[Yink]

You got me. That's definitely PKT1 and no special custom move. Good to see he can ACTUALLY do that in this game. To be honest though I do think Nairo could've actually hit NAKAT instead and then put him in a worse position but that's not exactly what we're arguing here.

Still, you can recover from further away, yes. The only caution I still have for that is Ness is still easy to hit out of PKT2, and as you saw with Nairo, you can still use your body (the lower the percentage the better) to lessen Ness' PKT2 and prevent him from coming back.

 

[Tikao]

yep, that will be the big problem with his recovery, atleast your opponent has to actually kill himself at high percentages to stop you, or simply take quite some damage at lower percentages
on the other hand, Ness' edgegrab range seemed to be increased even further in this game (well, atleast it seemed to me that way, not sure), so depending on where your opponent jumps into your pkt2, you might be able to still grab the edge

either way, ness' recovery is just way better in smash 4

 

[NAKAT]

In a sense Ness's recovery can still be body blocked. Players are not doing it yet, but if you read someone coming off stage you can stall with down B imo then use PKT when they are retreating back to the stage to recover. Just gotta be cautious, and a lot of people won't challenge PKT because they are afraid of getting killed by it or being put in a disadvantageous position rather than keeping stage control.

 

[NAKAT]

Now when this becomes a huge issue there is a correction to that problem. Use the PKT that resembles Lucas's which can't be body blocked. However, I don't see this being a huge issue because 6+ years of Brawl with an easier edge guarding game nobody really ever did it.

 

[ToferTheHuman]

Watch the last few matches to the Tourney locator, Awestin recovers like a ****ing champ.
And in on stock gets body blocked by Dakpo's ZSS :/

 

[HermitHelmet]

It's a change to Ness that was needed. I hate getting gimped by the Smashville balloon or the dumb Fly Guys in Yoshi's Island in Project M.

 

[Tikao]

hmm talking about recovering and using a video of nakat beating nairo and 1 minute later he answers here ... i can summon people now

ok for real : i haven't played ness myself in this game at all, so i can only talk about what i see, theoretically he should be gimpable if you are brave enough, but how and if people are actually doing that in the actual game is another thing

i feel like the game will be about either gimping way more aggressively, since you can't edgehog them anymore, or about actually playing it safe and keeping you just off the stage by using the stage control they have

i am generally curious how people actually adapt to ness, i believe he will se waaay more play than in brawl, which means people have to adapt to him and learn the matchup

i am realy happy that mi can say that, but i think ness' recovery won't be something to worry about for now, depending on how and if people will adapt to it, it might even stay that way


also nakat, do you plan on maining ness?
i know you are a realy good player, so it would be pretty nice to see a good player playing him, when the charakter and the entire meta is still evolving

 

[DoodleDuck97]

Ness hasn't been getting much sun lately looks like. He's looking a bit pale.

I think it might be the eyes they are less.... colourful

 

[Ganreizu]

It's a change to Ness that was needed. I hate getting gimped by the Smashville balloon or the dumb Fly Guys in Yoshi's Island in Project M.

...Ness' PKT1 not hitting anything directly above him doesn't really fix this at all though. Those objects are far more likely to hit on it's curve behind you, where it can still be taken away on hit, rather than directly above him, especially if you still use the camera to make PKT2 recovery more unpredictable.

 

[DoodleDuck97]

...Ness' PKT1 not hitting anything directly above him doesn't really fix this at all though. Those objects are far more likely to hit on it's curve behind you, where it can still be taken away on hit, rather than directly above him, especially if you still use the camera to make PKT2 recovery more unpredictable.

Is PKT2 the one Lucas had ? Because if it is, That thing was freaking awesome :'D

 

[Ganreizu]

Is PKT2 the one Lucas had ?

What? No...PKT2 is when you hit yourself with projectile PKT1...

 

[Rhus]

I won't lie to you guys.

I want that huge PK Thunder custom for PKT2 style kills. That thing is sick.

 

[Funen1]

Do we have any gameplay footage of Ness' custom specials yet? I'm curious to see exactly how some of them behave. Especially the green PKT. How fast, or slow, does it move compared to, say, Lucas' PKT? What is its arc speed like (crucial for recovery)? Does its tail behave the same way as the others, or does the whole bolt act like the head and disappear on contact? And how does it knock opponents around: in the same direction it came from, or the opposite?

 

[Hong]

We now have a social thread. :D

For the time being, this thread will continue to be a place where we can discuss general gameplay and move nuances. Eventually the forum will develop and someone will make a thread where we can compile move data (descriptions, launch power, damage %, etc.), but for now this will have to do.

Edit - Actually, carry the discussion over to this thread instead. Got to bin all these pages of pre-Japanese-release discussion.