Ness Question and Answer Thread, Ask Ness questions Here!

[1337-Zero]

^If you could get a jab in, couldn't you spot-dodge the grab instead? Or does a jab come out quicker?

 

[Ref]

You spot dodge. It's quicker.

It doesn't work at all anyway.

Spoiler

EIDI

 

[1337-Zero]

You spot dodge. It's quicker.

It doesn't work at all anyway.

Spoiler

EIDI

I'm a believer BTW, and I haven't even seen it happen.

 

[NintenJoe]

Does anyone know how PKT pierce works???

 

[Man of Popsicle]

Shield scrape over the edge of a shield with PKT tail and come back around and hit them with the side of the head.

 

[Robin1613]

i like how my question was ignored '~'

 

[Uffe]

im having trouble with fox, my opponent excells at putting pressure on my ness with his utilt to dair grab combo. when i di out of it i still get grabbed or usmashed to death. help?

When DI fails, you need to Smash DI (SDI). I had recently gone in a match where I was put near the wall and the opponent thought I was locked there. However, I SDI'd out of it. I can't exactly explain how it works, but you do use both your regular and C-stick analog. I can't find a video on how to, but hopefully someone else can.

Who knows, maybe SDI isn't necessary, though it is pretty important to know and learn. You say he u-tilts > dair > grab? You could probably just DI left or right out of it. It sounds like you're having a difficult time escaping this when you really shouldn't. I don't know too much about Fox, but I do know he can't lock you.

Someone else want to help our friend out? Someone with maybe more Fox experience?

 

[Levitas]

dair to grab works, so shield the dair.

they have to commit to approaches early.

they have the advantage in the matchup, bowyer's fox wrecks my ness.

 

[thesage]

Fair spam and catch him in a u-tilt juggle. Those **** fox...

 

[Shaky]

Whoever was asking for Fox help:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXXGtESy9ZQ

This might help.

 

[smash64]

bowyer's fox wrecks my ness.

but then again Bowyer's Fox is freakin good

 

[Robin1613]

thnx guys ima use ur advice!

 

[PMKNG]

lol **** i thought at 1:10 on shakys video that he hit his pkt tail with pkt2...then I noticed it was just against the floor to a roll.

 

[Eagleye893]

..... does everyone just completely forget about the patern of double jumping aerials to dair and instead run away from the ness? i mean most people that i would fight pick up on that and punish.... oh well, what works works. I just find myself a lot more vulnerable to attacks even when spacing and retreating fair well...

any way someone could help me to break the habit of wanting to maintain control of the ledge? i like the ledge too much. and also, what aerial combinations are best to use against long ranging characters and shorter ranging characters, quicker attacking characters and slower attacking characters? mixing in some sort of explanation or other advice.

 

[Uffe]

..... does everyone just completely forget about the patern of double jumping aerials to dair and instead run away from the ness? i mean most people that i would fight pick up on that and punish.... oh well, what works works. I just find myself a lot more vulnerable to attacks even when spacing and retreating fair well...

any way someone could help me to break the habit of wanting to maintain control of the ledge? i like the ledge too much. and also, what aerial combinations are best to use against long ranging characters and shorter ranging characters, quicker attacking characters and slower attacking characters? mixing in some sort of explanation or other advice.

Wait, what? What do you mean? Are you the one doing the double aerials > dair or what? If you're doing that and you're getting punished for doing it, then they're reading you like a book. You shouldn't rely on a set playstyle but as they say, "mix it up". Don't go and repeat the same pattern over and over again. Try and do some other things. Like if you get your opponent into the air and you always uair them, then they'll either dodge it or punish you for it. So instead of always doing that, maybe bait them, make them believe you're actually trying to attack them with an uair when in fact you're really trying to set them up for something else like a bair or nair, or whatever works.

As for edges, you shouldn't play around them a lot. If you make that your number one spot to be in, you'll most likely find yourself getting edge hogged, gimped, stage spiked, etc. This is another thing that'll make you predictable. If your opponent knows you like the edge, they'll eventually figure something out. Like one time I fought this Lucas and he was so predictable!

I'm not trying to sound mean, because even I've been in a similar situation back when this game came out. Every time he went to the edge, he'd go and set up a PKT2. After about two times, I had already figured him out. Eventually I hit him with my aerials, PKT'd his PKT, which gimped him, etc.

Killing your opponent by a dair spike is a lot of fun, but don't put yourself into the situation you're trying to get them in. If Ness had a multi-jumps, then I'd say go for it, otherwise don't stick to that plan all the time. Another thing to think about is, do the majority of stages have a blast zone below? The answer is most likely yes for the most part. However, do remember that some stages don't have instant death blast zones below. If you rely too heavily on this tactic, then you may find yourself in a difficult spot when you have to KO them another way.

Anyway, if you're the one being predictable with your aerial attacks > dair, perhaps you should play some Ness mains here and ask them. I'd offer to help you, but I've never played you and so I don't know what your playstyle is like.

 

[Eagleye893]

I switch it up a lot, I use dair rarely for a spike death, and if I do I use it the safest way possible, a I know when not to go for the ledge... Maybe I worded it incorrectly... I was asking for people's advice on what are the safest aerial approaches from best to worst and why so many other nesses get away with some of the things I never do... Also, I need a lil help in reincorporating the spotdodge as my major form of avoiding an oncoming attack and getting out of my other habit that isn't ledge based or psimag based... Can I be the magnet master? I've got some tips with psymag if anyone needs them. And I purposefully am spelling it psymag, cause it looks cooler.

 

[Shaky]

For aerial approaching, double aerials to dair is a VERY BAD approach. Even though I do that in some of my videos, it was out of desperation of getting some hits. My current playstyle (nothing similar to the ones on the video) is more of a "wait and punish" playstyle, in which I cut a lot of the aerial spamming and started mixing full hops and short hops. I also cut down on the PK Fires, but started using a lot more of uair (love that move now). The PK Thunder usage remains the same, but I'm just a bit more careful with it. Finally, I've been using pivot grabs more and I'm still trying to find a way to fit tilts and yo-yo's into my playstyle.

That's all I have on approaches....... hope it helps EagleEye.

 

[Eagleye893]

im a bit aggressive.... it helps enough.... but i will always be looking for a deeper answer.... thanks anyways! good contributions...

tilts.... can't get ditlt and ftilt, but utilt is the easiest.... early short combos, pkfire>Dairspike>utilt to whatever (rarely works now though), quick hit for people above and close by, meant for setting up to other things.....

Yoyo-s.... Master Reverse Hyphen Usmash is the first step.... once that is done, then use dsmash slightly less than usmash, because the charge hit from dsmash has more knockback and can leave you open to punish, especially against the characters that you cant hit charging and swinging of dsmash when uncharged.... if you hit someone with the charging hitbox of usmash, watch where they go or release as they hit it.... this takes some knowledge of your opponent and their DI skills, but most likely the charging hit then release will get them, but if they aren't expecting it and DI weirdly, you can hold it a little bit longer and normally get the hit off on them...
mix up reverse hyphen usmash randomly..... against people who are charging up to attack you especially use reverse hyphen usmash.... Reverse hyphen usmash is best used against a PKT2'ing ness or lucas, and you are running just out of the range of the last hitbox, then reversing it and getting the usmash hit... really the reverse hyphen usmash is one of my favorite mindgame-y move type things for ness.... apart from psymag.... sometimes when i start using a running usmash against someone, they might expect another or some other attack, which leads me to use a reverse hyphen usmash just out of range of a jab or grab, which almost always hits them when they take down their shield or end a spotdodge.... if they keep up a shield, either shield immediately or run away immediately, because they will punish you... i can't remember what i was going to write here....

JUMP CANCELED USMASH OoS!!!!! IT IS GODLY!!!! (in a sense)

If i haven't mentioned, keep charging if they shield and have their shield still up when you hit with the charging hit.... if you have great reflexes, just release when they put it down or wait until you have to release it, in which case you may be punished.

Does anyone want my psimagnet knowledge or no? I guess it's not too great though.... it's more of just getting a feel for it and becoming comfortable with the move.... but how exactly is it to be used?!?! nobody knows.... not even i know the perfect way of doing so.....

ONE RANDOM THING!!! when someone is in a helpless state going for the stage or ledge, jump upwards a little off the stage just before them, push them with the psimagnet, and hopefully you willl grab the ledge before they do AND push them just out of range of the stage if you did it right, but if not, rising nair or airdodge...

ANOTHER RANDOM THING!!! this was a really random occurrence... when i was dj'ing onto the stage, i got close to the ledge and in the middle of my DJ, i grabbed the ledge.... I know what i saw and it was really abnormal... i have the replay saved, but no real way of getting it to anyone at the moment.... NEW AT DUE TO A RANDOM GLITCH?!?!?!? hopefully.... but this was REAAALLY werid...

 

[1337-Zero]

Wait EagleI, you're saying when you DJ'd you grabbed the ledge sooner than normal?

That sounds useful, but I think I'm missing something here...

 

[Eagleye893]

I'll describe it based on the rings that show up when you DJ... okay.... i DJ'd about 2 ness's height under the ledge on the left side of FD about a ness width away.... i didn't do any aerials, didn't get hit by any attacks and moved towards the stage.... and the DJ showed 2-3 rings of the dj before grabbing the ledge.... hopefully that helps....

another rare occurrence, but i was playing a fox, got him hit by a pkfire and ran to hit him with a dash attack just before he got out, but as he SDI'd out right into the first or second hitbox of my dash attack, i hit him and he flew WAAAAAAAAAY up..... very rare occurrence...

 

[1337-Zero]

So you're saying it looked like you DJ'd twice right? Once to get to the ledge, and then once again RIGHT before grabbing the ledge. (If I'm understanding wrong, I guess I need to see it)

I've heard you can get your DJ back, but it's very difficult and has limited uses for Ness :/

The Fox thing has happened to me with other chars. My dad has crazy DI, so it actually happens a lot XD

 

[Uffe]

For aerial approaching, double aerials to dair is a VERY BAD approach. Even though I do that in some of my videos, it was out of desperation of getting some hits. My current playstyle (nothing similar to the ones on the video) is more of a "wait and punish" playstyle, in which I cut a lot of the aerial spamming and started mixing full hops and short hops. I also cut down on the PK Fires, but started using a lot more of uair (love that move now). The PK Thunder usage remains the same, but I'm just a bit more careful with it. Finally, I've been using pivot grabs more and I'm still trying to find a way to fit tilts and yo-yo's into my playstyle.

That's all I have on approaches....... hope it helps EagleEye.

Yes! Tilts and Yo-yos are good. Not many Ness' use their Yo-yo.

 

[CarVac]

I think he meant that he grabbed the ledge before the DJ finished.

 

[Eagleye893]

So you're saying it looked like you DJ'd twice right? Once to get to the ledge, and then once again RIGHT before grabbing the ledge. (If I'm understanding wrong, I guess I need to see it)

I've heard you can get your DJ back, but it's very difficult and has limited uses for Ness :/

The Fox thing has happened to me with other chars. My dad has crazy DI, so it actually happens a lot XD

NOOOOOOOOOOO....
thats something completely different....

I actually did it once again a while ago.... so its obviously possible to do consistently...
So far it seems to be only on FD
you know how ness' DJ can go in all werid directions? well you can either start under the ledge working your way up to the ledge OR you can be in front of the ledge a little bit but barely scrape the wall when jumping up to the ledge.... but you DJ and curve yourself to fit the curve of the stage, but you can't go right into the stage per se, because you would cancel your DJ with the stage by hitting your head on the lip.... Its weird to explain but you follow as closely as you can nearly on the wall of the stage and work your way up to the ledge, then it immediately grabs on to the ledge once in range...

THIS IS WHAT I GATHERED AND WAS CONSISTENT BETWEEN BOTH!! I DON'T KNOW HOW TO MAKE IT HAPPEN EVERY TIME!

PLZ SOMEONE TEST THIS!! IF YOUR DJ CANCELS INTO GRABBING THE LEDGE, THATS WHAT IM TRYING TO GET.

It worked on both right and left, and i am talking about DJ stopping to grab a ledge, not jumping near a ledge when something happens weirdly... well the DJ doesnt stop, but you cease movement and grab the ledge.... Its a great discovery and could make us uber plankers on FD.... but we can't plank.... darn! at least weve got ledgehogging...

EDIT: yes to carvac

 

[1337-Zero]

Hmm, well, I was half-right. You didn't DJ twice, but the jump did cancel into a ledge grab.

I'm going to guess you hit your head on the lip during the DJ, then DI'd into the grab range of the ledge.

I think I did this on Frigate today. I jumped at the ledge, warped back and forth very fast, then grabbed the ledge half-way through the jump. (This was caused by my hitting my head during the jump, there is actually a lip on Frigate in case you didn't know)

 

[Eagleye893]

Hmm, well, I was half-right. You didn't DJ twice, but the jump did cancel into a ledge grab.

I'm going to guess you hit your head on the lip during the DJ, then DI'd into the grab range of the ledge.

I think I did this on Frigate today. I jumped at the ledge, warped back and forth very fast, then grabbed the ledge half-way through the jump. (This was caused by my hitting my head during the jump, there is actually a lip on Frigate in case you didn't know)

That's actually the most reasonable explanation...
Thanks! But this will still be very difficult.

I guess nobody wants any help from my mindgame based playstyle... Oh well.

 

[★Malik★™]

ok, i was having some problems finding a secondary. before, i had four; lucas, ness, zelda, and mario. now since ness was my favorite on SSB and SSBM, i'm going to choose him as my secondary. i'm ok with him, i won't say i'm good and i won't say i suck with him.

now i have to get better.

any tips? goooooo ness mainers!

 

[thesage]

Spam fair until you can kill with b-throw.

 

[Uffe]

Being real here, fair and nair are your best aerials. But don't hesitate to use any of the other ones. Please avoid using PK Thunder 2 (PKT2) in such a sloppy and predictable manner. Newbies like to take Ness and just use PKT2 in a match quite often. If anything, use PK Thunder (PKT) on your opponents more than on yourself. Try to make it unpredictable if you're going to go for PKT2. Don't always rely on your back throw unless you're really in need. Ness has more than one KO option, so be creative, I guess.

For PK Fire (PKF), don't use it too close to your opponents. Chances are they'll just block it and attack you. To make things seem more useful, don't be afraid to pivot PKF. To make it less predictable, try and be creative with that, too. One more thing, because I can't think of anything else, try not to use f-smash so much. It's slower than it was in the previous Smash games. That's not to say you can't ever use it, just don't use it to the point you're getting punished for it.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

I know exactly what you're talking about.
And I know how to do.
Jump into the lip of FD but di backwards and it steals some of your jump height leaving you auto-snapped at the ledge.

 

[Eagleye893]

I know exactly what you're talking about.
And I know how to do.
Jump into the lip of FD but di backwards and it steals some of your jump height leaving you auto-snapped at the ledge.

Yeah, i know it now.... it just took a while to see it more closely...

..........what other questons do i have? ....

Why have all the stickies been so inactive in comparison to other threads?

 

[V]

Hey Ness players. I'm a Meta Knight and Marth main. But I fully feel Ness should be in B tier. I'm currently working on a thread that explains why. When I have everything typed up on word and have it all spell checked I'm going to post it in the Ness boards. Hopefully people listen!

 

[thesage]

The Ness boards died since the majority of intelligent Ness posters quit brawl or don't post here anymore.

Ness isn't b tier.

 

[mars16]

Yo Ref how is ness considered stronger then Lucas.

 

[Ref]

The Ness boards died since the majority of intelligent Ness posters quit brawl or don't post here anymore.

Ness isn't b tier.

I cause death in my absence.

Ness is more like C or D teir.

Ness is considered stronger because of his ability to kill with aerials and grabs earlier than Lucas... Smash attack wise lucas is stronger. Except for F smash which actually kills early but only on the tip... and more people seem to be able to Di Ness' F smash compared to Lucas' stick.

 

[V]

I just talked to M2K on youtube and he said Ness is mid/high tier. That would be B tier...

 

[Ref]

On youtube...?????

.......

No Ness is at top of C at most. And that's Ref(Past) Status.

 

[V]

EIS333: Now that you've played FOW has your opinion on Ness changed at all?

mew2king1: mid/high, just as fow thinks. he beat me like 30% of our friendlies the kid is mad good

 

[Ref]

Top of C tier is about mid/high.

If you think that B is high tier top of C is just right.

All good Ness players are destined for failure.

 

[V]

C tier is the absolute middle tier

S
A
B
C
D
E
F

He said mid/high. That would be B tier. And even if you don't put him in B tier he is AT LEAST the top of C tier. I play a pretty good Ness on a regular basis and he's waaay underrated right now.