Ness Question and Answer Thread, Ask Ness questions Here!

[Brinzy]

lol, you and your zelda.

Try attacking zelda from a keypad 1 or 3 spacing as opposed to a 2. That's how you can get around a lot of attacks in general.

Ok, this makes sense, because when I use Ness against Zelda or the other way around, it always felt as if one could just hit from directly beneath her, yet the end result is that Ness gets stomped. I've had this happen with several other characters.


And yes, me and my Zelda.

 

[thesage]

Sheik/Zelda > Sheik > Zelda in brawl. My 2nd is Sheik/ Zelda (relying mostly on Sheik though).

Zelda > Sheik in melee. I mean she relies solely on ONE move. How awesome is that. You don't even need to learn a character. Just ONE move.

 

[Brinzy]

Two.

I'm two times better than you.

 

[thesage]

Two.

I'm two times better than you.

They have the same range and they degenerate together. They are literally the SAME move.

 

[Brinzy]

They have the same range and they degenerate together.

lol, no they don't. Bair is longer ranged than fair (tested and proven).

They're close, but... bair is pretty much a buffed fair in every aspect. Not that it matters. Fair/bair don't decay equally. Who told you that lie?

We're going off-topic, though.

 

[thesage]

lol, no they don't. Bair is longer ranged than fair (tested and proven).

They're close, but... bair is pretty much a buffed fair in every aspect. Not that it matters. Fair/bair don't decay equally. Who told you that lie?

We're going off-topic, though.

I'm talking about melee. If you are too then Mow lied to me. Twice. IRL and online.

 

[Ref]

Mow wouldn't lie would he?

I'm pretty sure I've heard that about Zelda in melee too...

 

[Gaussis]

lol, no they don't. Bair is longer ranged than fair (tested and proven).

They're close, but... bair is pretty much a buffed fair in every aspect. Not that it matters. Fair/bair don't decay equally. Who told you that lie?

We're going off-topic, though.

Are you serious? The bair sweetspot happens closer to Zelda in my experiences, while the fair sweetspot is farther for me. Unless you're talking about Melee....

 

[megamanexev3]

I've seen this done on youtube a few times, but I can never do it myself. Any tips on getting your opponent caught in your PKT1 after an up-throw and then hitting them with a PKT2?

 

[Ref]

If your opponent is trying to land to close to you it's possible, most if not all opponents wouldn't do that though...


Key is just timing height vs. Fall speed vs. PKT1 tail to pkt2 speed.

 

[Brinzy]

I'm talking about melee. If you are too then Mow lied to me. Twice. IRL and online.

I just tested it in Melee. Decayed fair to 11% and got a 20% bair.

Mow lied to you. They're two different kicks in both games.

Are you serious? The bair sweetspot happens closer to Zelda in my experiences, while the fair sweetspot is farther for me. Unless you're talking about Melee....

I'm very serious. If you space fair so that it sparks, bair will sweetspot. Tested and on the Zelda board.

Basically, think of it this way.

Let's say Fair and bair have 30 inches of range. Fair would be... 3 inches of sweetspot and 27 non, while bair is more like 7 inches of sweetspot and 23 non. In reality, bair is actually a bit longer than fair, but I guess the range is negligible when you consider the thing about the sweetspot.

 

[Asa]

I have troubles approaching falco, any ideas?

 

[Uffe]

What is he doing that makes it tough?

 

[Asa]

he will keep doing retreating SH Lasers, and if I try to airdodge through them or do an arial I get shieldgrabbed. Should I approach at all?

 

[Uffe]

You should use your PSI Magnet if that's all he's doing. He'll be the one who needs to approach. Once your PSI Magnet is shot at with a projectile that you can absorb, you can shield, grab, jump, roll or attack out of it lag free. If all he's going to do is shoot at you, you might as well use your PSI Magnet.

 

[Asa]

ok thanks. one more question. What is the best way to gimp with PKT? Using the tail or stagespiking? Here's a video of me gimping with the tail, not sure if it would work on better players though:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9CLvi9MZF0 at 1:24

 

[neomadgic]

Approach with fair and jump higher than his laser. I only watch the opening minute, but it really looks like your Ness is grounded. He needs more hops!

 

[Uffe]

Ugh. I've fought a Falco like that before. Isn't that camping? Anyway, you can duck under the lasers. But when Ness tilts his head, he'll get hit.

I've got a problem. How do you deal with a Kirby who baits? If I use any projectile, he'll just close in on me and it's really annoying. He likes to move away from me and then come back towards me which by that time I'm left open and I get hit.

 

[thesage]

Ugh. I've fought a Falco like that before. Isn't that camping? Anyway, you can duck under the lasers. But when Ness tilts his head, he'll get hit.

I've got a problem. How do you deal with a Kirby who baits? If I use any projectile, he'll just close in on me and it's really annoying. He likes to move away from me and then come back towards me which by that time I'm left open and I get hit.

Space fair and sheild a lot. You should be able to see a grab coming.

 

[Uffe]

Space fair and sheild a lot. You should be able to see a grab coming.

If that's what it takes to **** that pink puffball, then fine. I started to notice what he was doing and I got him down to his last stock, but it wasn't good enough. Kirby's too easy to use.

 

[_clinton]

Thunder circle is fun to use on "people" who bait way too much...

 

[thesage]

If that's what it takes to **** that pink puffball, then fine. I started to notice what he was doing and I got him down to his last stock, but it wasn't good enough. Kirby's too easy to use.

It's the basics. What you do from there is up to your own playstyle.

 

[xoxokev]

Kirby's too easy to use.

I wouldn't say too easy, but his learning curve, like many other characters, is a lot easier than Ness'

 

[Uffe]

I wouldn't say too easy, but his learning curve, like many other characters, is a lot easier than Ness'

That's what I meant.

@ Asadelta: If Falco returns with his Falco Phantasm, you can set up PKT2 if he plans on returning to the stage that way at grounded level. You can also use PKF if you want. The tail of PKT can gimp opponents if they use their second jump and are hit by it since it'll stun them. As for Falco's lasers, I don't know what else to tell you other than PSI Magnet. Hopefully he'll learn his lesson.

 

[Gaussis]

Fun fact. Ness's dair animation can hop over grounded projectiles like lasers.

@Asadelta: Uh, it looks like you're afraid of him by the way you play. That isn't good, since you aren't punishing him for his mistakes (I don't think the SH Laser is done correctly). Also, don't roll to approach at all. Rolling is bad for approaching. Just walk and shield up to him, then do whatever you need to do.

For gimping, it's highly advisable to gimp him with a stagespike, since he won't be recovering from a successful one.

 

[Neon Ness]

Falco's recovery?

Hehehe.

There are a few things you can do. Time PKT so that the tail interrupts Falco Phantasm. A wise Falco once said that in most cases, a Falco doesn't want to have to use Up B to recover. It's easily blocked with Ness' offstage game; fair, or the head of PKT to knock him away to edgehog.

Ness' Back air has higher priority than the Phantasm (unlike Ness' dair ). Short hop it and bair that fool in the face if you can predict when they'll use side B, which shouldn't be too hard... They won't go too far above the ground using it, because that there's a free grab. Man, if only I had the replay for that one...

PK Furashu. Start it up when they're offstage, predict the side B and punish. You should release right about the time when they initiate side B, depending on the distance... Problem with this method is that if they see you doing this, they can choose to up B from below instead and avoid Flash altogether. It's best to use this one sparingly, it's risky...

 

[xoxokev]

A properly timed nair will also beat the priority of Falco's Phantasm.

@Gaussis: stage spike DOES sound like it would be good, since Falco's recover is "crap" or so they say.

What's the most reliable way to stage spike with Ness?

If I had to guess, it would be a bair, maybe a nair, and if you're lucky PKT...

EDIT: If you're still having trouble with Falco
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=214719

 

[Gaussis]

It really depends on your opponent and the stage. Bair, Nair, and sometimes Dair can be used to stagespike, although these are better used to get the opponent away from the ledge. PKT works only on certain stages and only when your opponent is in certain positions. Sadly, FD and Smashville, which have one of the highest possibilities with PKT stagespiking, rarely happen unless if your opponent is a tether character or DI the PKT hit into the stage.

 

[thesage]

Bair beats phantasm always? I can djc bair phantasms in melee, so I guess I can do it in brawl too.

 

[xoxokev]

Ledgebouncing is so riskyyyyyyy. Is there anyone that can do it consistently, and is willing to explain it???

EDIT: Oops, I think I meant wall bounce...

 

[Ref]

I'm Yet to know of someone who actually can ledgebounce 100% of the time... You can't really do it constantly unless you some how program your self to pkt at a certain height and certain angles.

 

[Earthbound360]

LedgeBEND (which is what I think you meant) is difficult, but easier on certain stages. Battlefield is VERY easy, and probably the most effective too considering the platform placement.

 

[Popertop]

Does ness have any major disadvantage matchups?
Why is he still low?

 

[xoxokev]

Ness is low because not a lot of people use him in tournaments, basically

 

[Popertop]

Wooooooow.
That's why?
**** I thought he was still bad.

 

[FireKirby7]

Nonononono. Ness is top tier material and has A LOT of potential. It's just that only we Ness mains can see it. If you learn Ness, you'll see.

 

[Popertop]

Pk flash edgeguard is smexy

<3

 

[_clinton]

JP is sexy...

Anyway...Lucas=Top tier as well besides Ness...but anyway...

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/genmessage.php?board=928518&topic=47551336

So besides that...any advice from you guys for beating a G&W that is actually good?

 

[Ref]

G&w is a match up easier learned than explained... Basic tips are to keep your spacing, properly shield and punish attacks that can be punished. Really if it is on wifi don't worry about it.

WiFi won't let you do anything.

Keys are to do this but without what ever gets Edrees killed: http://www.getyourtournament.com/multimedia/2008/11/ucla-monthly-vii-edrees-vs-leepuff_23.html

 

[_clinton]

G&w is a match up easier learned than explained... Basic tips are to keep your spacing, properly shield and punish attacks that can be punished. Really if it is on wifi don't worry about it.

WiFi won't let you do anything.

Keys are to do this but without what ever gets Edrees killed: http://www.getyourtournament.com/multimedia/2008/11/ucla-monthly-vii-edrees-vs-leepuff_23.html

The guy has great Wifi like me...so whatever...

BTW did you know G&W can spam the hell out of his FIRE! special like MK can? Its like Sonic's spring really only it has a wind effect with it (Ness can be gimped by G&W's up B so be careful about that in case you don't know that) ^_^

My point is...G&W is a ***** to deal with because of him having great spacing itself that isn't just because of turtle (oh no he has like 5 other moves that are just as annoying as turtle in spacing), kills early with smashes that are like Lucas' in power (might actually be stronger really) but have less start up time and after lag, (other then that though he has to gimp you) but lives longer then Bowser can or so because of his Bucket, and racks damage well.

The fact that G&W isn't higher on the list is odd to me...

Anyway we are close to evenly matched in the matches that we had most of the time so I'm thinking it really is just a skill difference in this case (his other characters aren't nearly as bad as his G&W, but the same is for me and my other characters)

Also I should point out that in no way do I think G&W is a guy...that is only what it wants you to think