Ness Question and Answer Thread, Ask Ness questions Here!

[SFA Smiley]

does ness have an advantage or disadvantage vs zss and what all is he able to do to her

I can think of a few things

WHOA!

 

[Fuujin]

 

[Chuee]

Thank you Fuujin for the wonderful brawl snapshot.

 

[Neon Ness]

None of this has anything to do with what was asked. :/ Stop posting irrelevant things.

 

[Fuujin]

None of this has anything to do with what was asked. :/ Stop posting irrelevant things.

lol u mad?

 

[smokey da bear]

I would like to know if he has an advantage because im going to pick him up if he does

 

[Eagleye893]

it's about even or ZSS advantage, IMO. Ness has some stuff to counter what ZSS does, but generally ZSS is quicker and kills faster, so it won't matter too much. Also, ZSS has good range where she needs it to completely destroy fair and PK Fire.

 

[Neon Ness]

Ness doesn't really have a distinct advantage over many characters... I don't think he does horribly against ZSS, but he doesn't have any notable gimmicks against her that I know of (unless you count being able to absorb her neutral B as notable...?). I remember reading somewhere she has a guaranteed jab, utilt, dtilt, ftilt, dash attack, and usmash out of a ground break on Ness actually, not 100% certain on all of those though.

I wouldn't exactly say Ness flat out beats ZSS. But he definitely has much worse matchups, so if you're thinking of trying out Ness against her I would go for it.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

Ness seems to have enough tricks in the bag to break even with most characters in the game, but not to surpass them. He's sort of a sponge I guess.

 

[PSI.kick]

what are ness's best followups to grabbing someone?

 

[kennypu]

I would say PK Thunder.
with uthrow, you can obviously juggle them if you have good PKT control,
with fthrow, that is pretty much one easy PKT you can get in or more,
bthrow is for kills so don't stale that ,
dthrow you can't really follow up with PK Thunder, usually you would follow up with a fair, pk fire or just tech chasing.

 

[Eagleye893]

GR, not really much you can do...
UThrow, jump to a position of safety and you can either DJ towards the other person with an UAir or Fair/Bair OR send off a PKT to attack.
BThrow, you shouldn't use unless to kill, but in the case that you DON'T kill, you can send a PKT and hope to catch the opponent to rack more damage or hit them off the top.
FThrow, you can get some good PKT on the opponent as Kenny said. Not much else.
DThrow can be a bunch of different things, but it all depends on the DI of the opponent. If they go far away, not much can get the opponent except FAir or PKT. No DI will often lead to a Dashing>FH UAir followup, but only if you take note of whether they airdodge or stay still or attack. Up DI will give some FH aerial potential toward characters that don't have quick, low-hitting aerials. Maybe pkflash also...

 

[P.I.E.]

I'm beginning to get insanely frustrated with IC's grab traps. What's a good way to fight back?

 

[kennypu]

not much you can do there. Just don't get grabbed.
Try to fight from, and to platforms as much as possible (stay on platform, go down and hit them, go back).

minimize using laggy moves like pk fire unless you're at a safe distance. However PK Fire can help a lot because it has a high chance of hitting since there are two of them. you can use pk fire to stop one of them, and then go get the other.

If its a very grab happy IC, yoyo's seem to help at times, just because it'll punish any of those who aren't patient.

other than that, again, don't get grabbed. lol.

 

[P.I.E.]

Thanks a lot. Everyone else I asked told me I was screwed. But this helps :D

Edit: I noticed that out of all the character boards, this one can actually admit their character has some downsides. Love the Ness boards :D

 

[F A N G]

Is PK Fire SDI'able?

 

[Eagleye893]

Yes by a lot. You can SDI and Jump > AD continually to have a higher chance of getting out, but the best way of staying out of the pillar is DI'ing away from the initial PK Fire bolt.

 

[F A N G]

Ok thanks, and is there a particular direction I would want to SDI? To get away from Ness' other attacks the fire

 

[Neon Ness]

Yeah, just SDI up/away from wherever Ness is shooting from.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Is it worth it to take a hit if you think you can pull off a yo-yo glitch?

 

[Yink]

The Brawl Yo-Yo glitch I'm assuming? Correct me if I'm wrong, it's just where the yo-yo hangs off of Ness right?

I suppose, if you were at low percents and had the room, etc it would be "worth it", but otherwise I don't really think it's that helpful.

Melee-wise, it's definitely worth it, you can either get a free grab from one end to the other, a free attack, or you can Jacket, and punish a player for touching Ness, such as Thunder Jacketing.

Hope that helped you.

 

[Jiffyboob]

How do you beat Ike?

 

[Eagleye893]

perfect-shield everything and don't get grabbed. Most of Ike's stuff is telegraphed, so just wait around in the safe areas (out of range of his FAir) and wait until a good time to just poke in. Try and get some good Aerial PK Fires off too to try and force the Ike to do something; grounded will work less because of how much range Ike covers on ground with almost all of his moves (ftilt, dash attack, etc)

 

[Forsworn]

- So instant forward-moving dj Nair is neat for fast range in front of Ness and pretty quick to retreat with as well. What are other Ness players' favorite moves/setups that tend to work out more often than not?

- What 1 or 2 moves should be used more and which ones a bit less? I guess it's character-dependant but still would like to hear opinions.

 

[Ref]

- So instant forward-moving dj Nair is neat for fast range in front of Ness and pretty quick to retreat with as well. What are other Ness players' favorite moves/setups that tend to work out more often than not?

- What 1 or 2 moves should be used more and which ones a bit less? I guess it's character-dependant but still would like to hear opinions.

D air to rising retreating fair was something that usually worked more than not for me. Try to catch them with the tip of the sparks so unless they can out range it. You are pretty safe.

I always felt the d air and U air should be used more often and the fair used less. I think the Nair is a great tool in any players arsenal. Full hop nairs for whatever seems to be less punishable than short hop ones. Mainly because you don't have to give up your double jump to get a decent height.

 

[Eagleye893]

@ref,

That's actually a good idea. I've never thought about that. I'd always just try landing with something like uair or nair or AD > grab. Landing with the FAir sucks, 'cause you only get one hit, but the rising Makes a ton of sense. Thanks for the tip. xD

I use both of those moves a TONNNNN!! I AC DAir for half of my approaching methods and a majority of my kills are UAir kills. xD that UAir has so much range that it's not even funny. NAir is very tricky; even after working around methods for using it for a long time, I've still not found the perfect use. On landing is terrible, 'cause you get landing lag. landing in the end of the sourspot is okay, but I can't time it so that I land with little lag. SH NAir is too punishable, and a ton of characters can get you even if you retreat as you hit. I LOVE FH NAir. It puts you in a great position when NAir ends; near top of FH Height, non-grabbable to people below you, and you can play around with your height and FF or not or DJ and just completely play around with your options. YOU CAN EVEN DJC PKFIRE SO THAT YOU BOUNCE BACK AND HIT A PERSON WHOSE SHIELD YOU WERE PRESSURING! OMG, so awesome. xD

 

[Deathfox30]

Is Wario Ware a good Ness stage?

 

[P.I.E.]

Well if you think recovery-wise, I don't think so. Like Yoshi's Island(brawl), the side of the stage is a big wall, and is pretty difficult to maneuver if you're recovering directly next to the wall. Other than that, the platforms are a bit of an advantage, and the mini-games (along with their rewards) would really ive any character in general a good advantage, so long as you don't lose them xD

 

[Neon Ness]

Is Wario Ware a good Ness stage?

It's not really used in competitive play.

 

[Eagleye893]

Neon got what I was going to say, but in much nicer terms.

 

[Deathfox30]

Neon got what I was going to say, but in much nicer terms.

o

It's such a cute stage though. :3 And Ness is my favorite character in brawl. O:

=o

 

[P.I.E.]

Whether or not it's used in competitive play shouldn't stop anyone from playing on any given stage for its intended purpose. :D

 

[Deathfox30]

Yeah. :D Ya'll need to play on Wario Ware and Green Greens moar. >:3

 

[PK-Matt]

Which move out of Ness's set has most lag time would you say?

 

[Eagleye893]

It highly depends on how they're used.

I'll just list them by their classification. THIS ISN'T CERTAIN, IT'S JUST WHAT I CAN JUDGE IT BY! If you want specific lag-time on moves, you can look for RocketPSI's (??!?!??!?!?) thread about the frame data for moves (see Neon's post from a while ago on either the NGD or this thread)

tilts:

ftilt
utilt (not much, but still annoys me)
dtilt (dtilt has such little lag that it's not even worth saying anything)
​

aerials:

Landing Lag:

DAir (non Auto-Canceled)
NAir (beginning and middle of it's frames; ending is a bit weird...)
FAir (also dependent on when you land... beginning and ending are very short though)
BAir (Only slightly slower than UAir, and it's shield-stun and range make it slightly more worth it when used on landing)
UAir (obviously short lag)
DAir Auto-canceled (basically insta-move if you do it right)
​

Normal Lag:

DAir (duh)
FAir
UAir (after it's initial hit, it has a ton of lag. That initial hit has good range though AND this move should only be used if you're landing or moving away from your opponent)
BAir
NAir
(sourspot frames on the last two, but NAir's last much longer, thus cutting down no-hit lag time)
​

Specials:

PK Flash, Aerial and higher up.
PKT, grounded.
PK Fire, aerial and not canceling lag frames in air.
PKT2, grounded and NOT directed near a ledge.
PKT2, aerial and not grabbing a ledge.
PK Flash, grounded.
PK Flash, Aerial and near ground.

*PSImagnet is a bit iffy. The wind-push frames still last long and some people can consider the WHOLE move as a lag-time versus some characters... I'm not listing it there...
​

I want to do a lag-time for throws, but it's difficult and doesn't matter much, 'cause FThrow, UThrow, and BThrow should be putting opponents too far away for the lag-time to matter.
If you use DashAttack the right way, it has about the same amount of lag time as FAir.

Smashes:

(dang, this is tricky...)
DSmash
FSmash
USmash

(they all have terrible lag.... DSmash is the worst, but FSmash's lag can be more easily ignored sometimes due to the fact that it's shield push-back is really good)
​

EDIT: BTW, WELCOME TO SMASHBOARDS!. Just so you know, the ness boards die easily.

 

[P.I.E.]

Oh yeah what he said ^ Welcome ^^'

Okay, so I know about that famous (to me) argument on the Ness/Mario MU discussion a long time ago, and I happen to be playing a mario for an MM. It's a best of 5 match, and I tend to play agressive.
I've started a strategy of mine that's more patient by a landslide, and this mario is completely agressive and impatient, and always goes for the gimp.

My question are: Which moves of Ness have higher priority over which moves of Mario(That would count as an opening for me, if read correctly)? What would be the safest move in order to gimp him offstage? Would it be good to switch characters for one of the matches? If not, what extra measures should I take in order to gain and advantage?

(edit)

it's about even or ZSS advantage, IMO. Ness has some stuff to counter what ZSS does, but generally ZSS is quicker and kills faster, so it won't matter too much. Also, ZSS has good range where she needs it to completely destroy fair and PK Fire.

That sounds pretty discouraging, LOL

 

[PK-Matt]

Thanks for the welcoming, you guys. ^^ And, also, thank you for the input - it's gonna help me greatly. It's sad to hear that the Ness boards die easily... I'll definitely be here, though.

I've got a tourney coming up at the end of the month, and I've been practicing like crazy... I've always risked going in as Ness, but he's always been my favorite and best character to play with.

Starting a new character and training with them has been an idea; but I always find myself going straight back to Ness. Any tips on how I can train with him so that advantage's in my upcoming tournament can be valid? I've been facing a lot of DDD/Marth/Falco... the usual.

 

[Neon Ness]

Play as many matches as possible. Simple, but effective.

You're going to run into these annoying matchups in tournaments again and again so the best thing to do is seek out your weaknesses and attack them head on. Ask people who beat you for help and advice, I guarantee at least a few will be willing to help. Also watch videos of other Ness players for new ideas on how to tackle matchups.

Personally I recommend a secondary (D3 is good one) for annoying fights when you're first starting out, but then there are people like Shaky who go straight Ness and still do well. Ultimately it's up to you, it kind of sounds like you want to go all Ness, though.

 

[PK-Matt]

Yeah, I'd much rather go straight Ness. He's the only character that I truly know backwards and forwards, you know? I'd feel comfortable knowing what to do when I face certain characters and such.

It seems like you main Ness, but you second someone else? Do you second DDD?

 

[Neon Ness]

Yeah, I find DDD/Wario helpful backups for characters I had trouble with like Marth or Peach or someone.

Otherwise I'll mainly try to tough it out with Lucas/Ness for the same reasons you stated.