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Ness Question and Answer Thread, Ask Ness questions Here!

thesage

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Well it worked, and I know d-tilt isn't infinte, but guess what it leads to? Another grab release.

Also the person doesn't have enough frames to spot dodge to roll if you can hit them out of spot dodge (IIRC nobody has a really good spotdodge except for like ROB and two other people who I forgot).

I don't know what IIRC means but I put it there since it sounds right.
 

Ref

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A lot of characters have good spot dodges. And no sage, just no D tilt and wall should be shunned just like Grab release wall.

But yea its a good follow up... I'll give you credit.
 

ZMan

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I got questions.

What are Ness's best stages?
According to this one guy in NM, Falco can pivot grab a dthrow infinte on Ness. Is this true?
Is there really any worth while ATs to learn with Ness? Like ATs I'm going to use every match or every 1/5 matches?
 

Levitas

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Ness likes stages like delphino and pirate ship.

Falco cannot dthrow infinite, that's a complete lie.

firebound if you feel like it, but there really aren't any ATs that are anywhere near as significant as the ones on some characters.
 

Ref

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That one guy is lying.

Ness best stages are norfair, delphino, Pirate ship and Corneria. 3 of which are sometimes banned.

There aren't many ATs that are very useful with Ness... It is more of a do type thing, like occasionally DJ after an aerial to another aerial. Other than that there is not much.

Oh and EIDI.
 

Ref

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Any character who can be held off the ground and is forced into a ground break by the opponent pummeling can do it...

Meaning if you are held off the ground and you get forced into a ground released you can do it. I posted it to Ness because of his longer animation.
 

Uffe

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Well it worked, and I know d-tilt isn't infinte, but guess what it leads to? Another grab release.

Also the person doesn't have enough frames to spot dodge to roll if you can hit them out of spot dodge (IIRC nobody has a really good spotdodge except for like ROB and two other people who I forgot).

I don't know what IIRC means but I put it there since it sounds right.
King DeDeDe, Meta Knight and Diddy Kong also have really good spot dodging.
 

Gaussis

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Is there really any worth while ATs to learn with Ness? Like ATs I'm going to use every match or every 1/5 matches?
If a single move can be considered an AT, then I suggest you learn PKT. Learn when you can use it and when you can't. Learn how to hinder your opponent with it. Finally, MINDGAMES.

Then again, one move isn't considered an AT, so just find something that best suits your playstyle.
 

Gaussis

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No, I am not. And I had it worse. Auto 3-stock in one match at that stage. Luckily it was wifi. Johns FTW. :p

PKT is Ness's best option at times. Furthermore, it can be used to set the opponent up or keep them away. It is a very useful projectile.

@thesage: IIRC stands for if I remember correctly
 

thesage

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I got a question for Ref:

Will you ever upload a vid of you playing against MK, Snake, GaW, DDD, and the like? I really am at a loss on what I could add to my Ness game save for the stuff I've though off. I wanna see if you have any cool tricks.

I also don't know how to use dair very well =X
 

Masky

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I got a question for Ref:

Will you ever upload a vid of you playing against MK, Snake, GaW, DDD, and the like? I really am at a loss on what I could add to my Ness game save for the stuff I've though off. I wanna see if you have any cool tricks.
Seconded :)
 

PMKNG

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I'd also like to see if possible.

I don't play many game and watches, but Snakes for sure. Only ddd I play is Seibrik though, but I'd like to see any different tactics pl0x lol
 

Masky

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I'd also like to see if possible.

I don't play many game and watches, but Snakes for sure. Only ddd I play is Seibrik though, but I'd like to see any different tactics pl0x lol
Has he ever used the ultimate DDD vs Ness edgeguard on you? :laugh:
 

GotenOnNimbus

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I also don't know how to use dair very well =X
Um, something you might consider that I've found useful as of late (with standard controls) is up on the control stick and down on the C-stick a split second after for an easy SH Dair. I've used it as a dsmash punishment, and as a spike against people ledgehopping.

>_> A habit from playing Ganon.
 

Gaussis

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thesage didn't say about using it laglessly (I hope not...). He meant that he doesn't incorporate dair in his game.
 

Ref

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I got a question for Ref:

Will you ever upload a vid of you playing against MK, Snake, GaW, DDD, and the like? I really am at a loss on what I could add to my Ness game save for the stuff I've though off. I wanna see if you have any cool tricks.

I also don't know how to use dair very well =X
I probably will get videos against these characters at DJ's quit life of a living gobble if I'm too busy with Melee and Smash 64....

Glad people want to see my Ness, I'll get some things up soon hopefully.

D air use it instead of down smashes or up smashes sometimes... Then follow up with another aerial... It can actually leave the opponent in hitstun to a move if they are trying to do an aerial move to hit back.

Throw it out and see what you can do.
 

Gaussis

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I have a question, Ref. Does the dair cover the definition of a sweetspot or a sex kick? Since the leg lasts for a certain amount of time and changes its knockback, I believe it falls in the category of the latter.
 

Ref

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Sweet spot, since it only consist of two hit boxes. As well as not gradually decreasing in power by being left out for a while. One powerful hit that stays out for a while and a weak hit at the very end. Also the knock back angle is very different.

Sex kick is used to refer to Kicks but recently has pretty much been thrown around to name almost all N airs.

Luigi's N air is a sex kick because the angle of knock back is the same...
 

xoxokev

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I have a question, Ref. Does the dair cover the definition of a sweetspot or a sex kick? Since the leg lasts for a certain amount of time and changes its knockback, I believe it falls in the category of the latter.
I'm not Ref, but I'm gonna give my 2 cents anyway...

I would say dair is a sweetspot move, because you somewhat have to sweetspot it... sex kicks i believe come out a lot quicker and have high priority... although the dair does have a lot of priority, it comes out relatively slow...

In any case, I just call it a spike... or "meteor smash" if you wanna get technical :lick:
 

Ref

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What do you mean by combination of moves?

Such as chains being one aerial to another N air > N air is good
F air > F air is good

D air > ? Aerial is good

B air can chain to B air depending on damage...

U air to N air. Up tilt to up tilt there is a lot of good ones.... Experiment and find ones that are proving to be most useful to you.

Mostly all chains can be air dodged / or avoided. Nothing is guaranteed... Best ones are probably F air to N air, N air to N air and D air to any aerial...
 

Gaussis

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Don't forget nair->uair->utilt at low percentages. ;)

There are also different ways you can chain aerials. You can DJ them, or pull two in one shorthop. I personally use the DJ chains more, but two aerials in one shorthop are more effective in certain situations.
 

Ref

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Yea Thanks Gaussis I forget my chains because I do them on command and in good situations too...
 

fromundaman

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Hmmm... I don't have time to read through all of this thread and/or the guide as the library is closing, so I apologize if this has been asked before: How do you cancel Ness's down B?

The other day I was playing against Zelda (We both hit random... I'm not a Ness player usually), meant to do a PK jump but I guess I must have hit down instead. In any case, what seemed to have happened was that Ness barely left the ground, used the down B (which absorbed Din's Fire purely by chance), and hit the ground with it off. All in all, it was out for maybe a second. I tried redoing it but can't. Anyone know what happened?
 

Ref

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Okay PSI mag cancel cannot happen in the air. It can happen on the ground. After you absorb a projectile there is a pretty wide window of frames in which you can jump, roll, spot dodge or up smash. All you need to do is input the commands as if you had your shield up, without holding R or L.

As for landing right when you absorbed it you probably canceled it without noticing it via roll upsmash spot dodge or jump.
 

fromundaman

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Ah, all right, it must have been jump canceled after I absorbed Din's Fire then. It hadn't looked like I'd landed, but I was so close to the ground I probably did.
 

Uffe

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Which counterpick stages are the worst for Ness?
Lylat Cruise
This is such a terrible stage for Ness. You've got the ship tilting left and right messing up Ness' PK Fire. You've got three platforms close by just screwing up Ness' aerial game, it's not cool at all. I hate this stage a lot. It's only good when you're fighting another aerial character because it just messes them up the same way. So if you're used to the stage, then you should have no trouble winning.

Yoshi's Island (Brawl)
I never did like that stage because of the teetering platform above, the Shy Guys, the wall, if you're recovering near it, it eats your PK Thunder and the Ghost platform that appears once in awhile.

I'm sure there are more.
 

xoxokev

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thanks Uffe, i was wondering which stages i should be worried about if i were to enter a tourney using Ness

yeah i'd have to agree with Lylat Cruise, the tilting platform messes with PKF. also, the ledge is so ********, if youre hanging, and want to fall -> double jump -> rising fair, sometimes you get caught underneath the stage... making it hard to get back, unless you can do perfect vertical PKT2 recoveries with your eyes closed... same goes for Pokemon Stadium 1... those ledges suck
 

Levitas

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Wierdly, Lylat is better against marth (where ness normally doesn't do so hot), and Green greens is terrible against marth despite normally being a decent option.

Well... Green greens was better in melee for ness...

And it's important for ness's to be able to do blind recoveries.
 

Uffe

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Pokémon Stadium (Melee) isn't all that bad. It's somewhat like Final Destination with the edges that gimp on its own. I'd say that stage is good for Ness, but that stage is pretty good for just about any character if they know what they're doing. If you want my opinion on all stages, I'll go ahead and just write some flaws out.

Battlefield
Basically this stage isn't bad for Ness, but it's not his best stage, either. You can still get around with aerial attacks, PK Thunder and a few other stuff, so it's not really holding him back.

Delfino Plaza
One of Ness' best stages. It's the best mainly because of the water which he really doesn't have to worry about recovering and the water spikes he can perform killing opponents at such low percent.

Yoshi's Island
Hell on Earth. That is all.

Lylat Cruise
Hell in space. Seriously, just look at the posts of these stages I've already written about.

Bridge of Elden
There isn't anything particularly wrong with this stage other than the fact that a Moblin leaves a gaping hole in the middle of the bridge. This stage is just wide that it reduces Ness' PK Jibaku and b-throw KO's. Of course if you're near the blast zone, you can just grab your opponent and 0% death them. Of course they can do the same to you.

Smashville
One of Ness' good stages. Despite the balloon that floats on by and the moving platform, Ness can safely retreat on the moving platform and use PK Thunder without him having to worry so much about getting hit. This is also good for when Ness recovers if you're to fly vertically instead of horizontally or diagonally. That balloon almost cost me a match, though! ]:<

Rumble Falls
I have no comment on this race track. I'll let you find what's good and bad about this stage for Ness.

Skyworld
This stage is only good for little boys and girls who do good deeds. Every character didn't pass this goal before passing on. Only Pit, Kirby and Meta Knight did, which is why this stage is pretty much good for them. Ness can uair through the platforms. I think. But this stage does no justice for his PK Thunder.

Castle Siege
The stage is okay for Ness. The beginning doesn't do good for his PK Fire since there is a slant. Of course standing on the other side of the stage in its first phase is good for using PK Fire. Just be sure not to get stuck under the edge of the castle. It's nobodies friend. The second phase is great for Ness. You've got two statues which you can build a fire pillar and when these are broken, you can go all out with your aerial attacks. The last phase of this stage is okay. It's like Lylat Cruise but more bearable for Ness. Still, when it teeters back and fourth, that could be bad for your recovery if you aim wrong.

WarioWare Inc.
I'm not sure what to make of this stage. Like Castle Siege, it has some phases of its own. There really isn't anything stopping Ness from being playable on this stage. Again, I don't know what to say about this stage.

Pokémon Stadium 2
Maybe I'm just weird, but I don't like going to stages that people say are good for Ness. I've read that this stage is good for Ness. I have no idea why. I prefer the Melee counterpart over this one any day. As I wrote about the Melee version, you have to know what you can do on this stage in order for it to be good for your character. I'd assume this stage is good for all characters.

Halberd
This stage is good and bad for Ness. Look at it like Battlefield but with one big platform in the middle. There really is nothing bad about this stage for Ness other than the landing on the ship and the slants that can stop Ness' PK Fire. Overall you've got your platform that you can use PK Thunder with and throw in some aerial attacks from under the moving platform.

Shadow Moses Island
Bad for Ness' b-throw if you love using it because the walls are in the way. However, breaking those down will help in the long run. Like the Halberd, you can just attack from under the platforms, pull some PK Thunder mind games and other odd crap you probably never thought you could do on such an enclosed stage. I'm positive you can start your own camp fire on the second row of the pillars when you're on the very top of the stage.

New Pork City
Nothing good comes from this stage. Seriously, this stage sucks for every character.

PictoChat
There are some stuff that will appear that might help you in a match. You got the two fireballs that float on the sides which you can throw your opponents into. Same goes with the spikes that appear on the far left and right of the stage. The face is annoying as he'll try to blow you off the stage. Of course you can go on his nose or forehead. But what's the point? The spikes that appear in a row of four, you can hide behind those and use PK Flash to annoy your opponent. You can also use your PK Thunder to bother them. If they're really close, swing your Bat.

Then there are those things that appear and look like a house. If you get caught in the box, simply try to use PK Thunder or something that goes through those solid platforms. The whale is just annoying. I'm not going to go through all the phases this stage has. I'll let you find out what's good and bad.

Summit
This is what Hell looks like when it's finally frozen over. Good for approaching with Ness' hyphen and reversed hyphen smash. However, those clouds that float on by aren't ever around when you need them the most. Your attempts of making it back are very slim.

Norfair
I still have yet to know what makes this stage so good for Ness. I never go here. I'd assume it's the platforms you can go through. I'm positive that most will secretly pull a uair under the very bottom platform. It's simply good for PK Thunder.

Temple
This stage was made for happy campers. It's not like you'll fight on this stage in competitive play, but look for unique ways to avoid your opponents if you ever come across this ridiculously big stage.

Mario Circuit
No worries of having to safely recover. That's all I see this stage being good for. Other than starting fires on the racers, I can't see this stage being very useful or bad for Ness.

Frigate Orpheon
This is not one of Ness' best stages. I've been here a few times to know why. I can't tell you why, but there is a reason. Just go there yourself and you'll eventually see what happens. Just be sure you're not here when fighting actual players if you plan on trying to figure out the issues of this stage for Ness.

Distant Planet
This stage is actually pretty good for Ness. The gimping is literally one sided, unless of course you get that creature to come by, then you're pretty much safe. Just avoid getting eaten. The only problem I have with this stage for Ness are those circular shaped items that grow. They're very annoying for PK Thunder if you're wanting to use it in the air. Of course you can probably get gimped by one of those if another player throws it at you.

Mushroomy Kingdom
It's a nice stage, but seriously, nothing good comes out of it. You can get in some easy kills, but anyone can do that. The underworld is the same way. Of course you can just be on the very top and u-throw your opponents to death. It's funny to do that, though. Just be sure you're not the one getting thrown.

Port Town - Aero Dive
This is my favorite banned stage. You can basically apply what I said about the Halberd with this one.

Final Destination
This is a great stage for Ness because of the open area you've got. Of course I hate this stage because it has big fat lips that kill.

Mario Bros.
Lame idea. This is anybodies game.

Green Hill Zone
Good for open aerial combat, but I hate the stage anyway. The platforms that break below aren't good for Ness' recovery. Plus you're on a half pipe the majority of the time. I hate this stage with a passion.

Luigi's Mansion
Good for fire wood, camping outdoors and other random stuff. Bad for PK Thunder, though. It's a good stage for Ness, but it's not his best.

Spear Pillar
I believe this ones got tiny lips. But it's good for hyphen and reversed hyphen smashes as it can hit your opponent a bit easier if you're under the stage. You can also surprise your opponents with PK Jibaku under the stage. That is if you can get your PK Thunder to hit you. Yes, this is possible. The area above is pretty good for Ness to fight on, too.

75m
Good idea and a bad idea. This stage is good for Ness, I guess. PK Thunder wherever and whenever.

Flat Zone 2
I liked the first one better. The stage is pretty much open to all sorts of attacks you can use with Ness. It's a good stage for him, I suppose, but there are many things that get in the way.

Jungle Japes
I have no problem with this stage to be honest. It's pretty open and the water can save you if you **** up your PK Thunder. Of course I wouldn't rely on the water too much.

Green Greens
Ask another Ness main that goes here often. I haven't had too much problems with this stage. Good for PK Fire against the blocks. It's good especially if they have bombs.

Pokémon Stadium
Again, this stage isn't bad for Ness. But it's not bad for just about any character, anyway. Figure out different things about the phases of this stage that you can use to your advantage.

Big Blue
I'm a fan of F-Zero, but not this stage. You're better off not using any PK attacks since I guess an opponent can move against you and you slide off to oblivion. Bet you never thought about doing that before.

Hanenbow
I don't think they were thinking when they made this craptacular stage.

Pirate Ship
You're worry free of using PK Thunder to recover! And you can water spike your opponents, too!
 

Levitas

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Why did you review every stage?

That seems mildly pointless, as at a lower level they do their own thing and their capabilities dictate what is good and what isn't, and at high level play most of those stages aren't used.

Also, either you get up early or stay up late. I'm in stay up late mode.
 

Uffe

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Why did you review every stage?

That seems mildly pointless, as at a lower level they do their own thing and their capabilities dictate what is good and what isn't, and at high level play most of those stages aren't used.

Also, either you get up early or stay up late. I'm in stay up late mode.
I did it because I was bored. And it's late. I've got work at 11:00 am and It's ten minutes to three. So don't be surprised if there are any typos. Good night. <_<'
 

thesage

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Geez Levitas, I thought I had sleeping issues? Does college really have that much homework?
 
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