Ness Question and Answer Thread, Ask Ness questions Here!

[ColinJF]

Something like 90% of the attacks in the game can "easily fan" pk thunder... that's why you don't use it in obvious ways that are "easily fannable".

 

[Ref]

So Pk thunder effects everyone : True... How does it affect Bowser more other than shield stab-able what more can Pk thunder do on Bowser than other?

Fine I guess I exaggerate I truly believe though that Ness is at a disadvantage...

What other things does Ness have on Bowser?

 

[ColinJF]

Well, Bowser is really big, that's why pk thunder is especially good against him when he's in the air. (Dedede is another big target for pk thunder.) Bowser is among the easier characters to spike. Bowser's down air isn't very good at protecting him from below (and nor is Bomber Bomb) so up air is really good in this match up. Speaking of Boswer Bomb, if he ever tries it above you, you can easily land pk thunder 2 on it, either directly, or via tail of pk thunder -> pk thunder 2. He isn't likely to do this often, but he might try it as a mix up to prevent being hit from below.

There's only so much stuff one can list that "Ness has on Bowser"... part of it is just inherent character features. Ness's projectile game (i.e. pk thunder) is good against Bowser, his throws (especially up throw) are good against Bowser, and so on.

 

[Ref]

Okay I think we can agree that I'm probably over exaggerated but personally I feel it's a bad match up for Ness...

Let's discuss this somewhere else feels strange discussing this in a Q&A thread, tell PK Nintendo to do Bowser Next.

 

[Earthbound360]

Colin, as much as I agree with you, you're not going to convince Ref. He's a Bowser mainer also. There's a pattern here. People who main another character come to the Ness boards and when a discussion goes along their main vs. Ness, and they always claim their main owns Ness.

Sad yes, but that's how things work.

 

[Ref]

I don't main Bowser any more, I'm so horrible with him. I'm trying to work on him though. Ness is my true main and the only character I play in tourneys... I've just faced extremely good Bowser players too...

 

[neomadgic]

I find Bowsers are pretty easy because of his size. DK, I can see having an advantage on Ness, but Bowser?

But here's another question. What's the best way to get out of Falco's CG -> Spike? Because it always results in an instant death for me.

 

[Ref]

Have tap jump on if you are being chained DI up and try to air dodge. As for the spike try to DI so it doesn't hit you, if it does mash up on the control stick to meteor cancel... with your DJ. then recover just another reason Tap jump on is so much better than off.

You should not mash the jump button this if you time wrong will cause you to not be able to meteor cancel.

MAKE SURE HE SPIKES YOU BEFORE YOU START MASHING JUMP! If you don't then you might just waste your DJ then get hit.

 

[ColinJF]

DI the first down throw up and mash jump. You seem to be able to footstool Falco sometimes and avoid the chaingrab entirely. I'm not sure the exact conditions that allow it.

 

[Ref]

The condition that allow that is the Falco mistiming the next grab...

 

[ColinJF]

Could be. I thought I had read otherwise on allisbrawl a few weeks ago, but the thread seems to be gone now (???).

Also, be careful after you meteor cancel with your double jump because it's very possible for Falco to hit you with down air again out of your double jump if you aren't careful.

 

[Ref]

Once you see that sparkle air dodge and ascend like that. The double spike one shouldn't hit unless your recovery is predictable. If you don't have your double jump / got spiked again mash up b and try to recover... once you see or hear PK thunder starting, most recognizable by Ness yelling PK thunder!

 

[Gaussis]

People who main another character come to the Ness boards and when a discussion goes along their main vs. Ness, and they always claim their main owns Ness.

Sad yes, but that's how things work.

Wait a minute. That's not true for all of us. I also main Ganon and to some extent Yoshi and I believe Ness has an advantage against them.

 

[neomadgic]

I don't play with tap jump on cause Utilt is too hard for me to do. I don't know why, but whenever I get spiked by the falco, I can't use my second jump. It's probably because I spam jump trying to get out of the CG.

 

[Uffe]

I don't main Bowser any more, I'm so horrible with him. I'm trying to work on him though. Ness is my true main and the only character I play in tourneys... I've just faced extremely good Bowser players too...

So that's why you did so good against me! Maybe I just suck with Ness.

I wouldn't say Bowser is Ness' worst match up, but he's not that easy to go up against. Just because you have PK Fire and Thunder doesn't mean Ness is instant win against the heavy and slow Bowser. I mean PK Fire isn't Bowser's friend and it does work, but yeah, a good Bowser won't let you simply two or three stock him.

 

[Gaussis]

So that's why you did so good against me! Maybe I just suck with Ness.

I wouldn't say Bowser is Ness' worst match up, but he's not that easy to go up against. Just because you have PK Fire and Thunder doesn't mean Ness is instant win against the heavy and slow Bowser. I mean PK Fire isn't Bowser's friend and it does work, but yeah, a good Bowser won't let you simply two or three stock him.

The same can be said for Ganondorf. And he's supposed to be even slower than Bowser.

 

[FifthRise]

do you use bair to rack up damage, or do you save it for kills?

if i'm looking to mix up my game and want to approach more from the ground, what do you suggest?
as of this particular moment of time i do mostly hyphen smashes as a fairly reliable ground approach, but that's all i can think of.

 

[Gaussis]

Personally, it depends on matchup. If I can't inflict enough damage with fair and my other aerials are situational, I use bair for damage. The problem is that now you have to kill with a different move. Restoring bair's power isn't easy and it will not go back to full. That leaves you with uair and bthrow as good kill moves.

Approaching takes a bit of thinking. You can't just approach the same way over and over. You will become predictable and tack on unnecessary damage. On the ground, dash attack, usmash yo-yo, and the dash-grab are the best ground approaches. But don't make yourself predictable in the approach. Mix it up.

 

[ColinJF]

I don't play with tap jump on cause Utilt is too hard for me to do. I don't know why, but whenever I get spiked by the falco, I can't use my second jump. It's probably because I spam jump trying to get out of the CG.

It's because if you use X or Y you have to press X or Y at exactly the right time as you are knocked away by a meteor -- precisely after half the knockback has passed. If you press X or Y not at that time, it won't work even at the right time. The solution is to turn on tap jump and mash tap jump, which lets you get the meteor cancel every time.

For up tilt, just hold the joystick only part of the way up and then press A.

Spamming jump during the chaingrab won't waste your double jump since you won't jump at all if the chaingrab continues.

 

[Uffe]

It's because if you use X or Y you have to press X or Y at exactly the right time as you are knocked away by a meteor -- precisely after half the knockback has passed. If you press X or Y not at that time, it won't work even at the right time. The solution is to turn on tap jump and mash tap jump, which lets you get the meteor cancel every time.

For up tilt, just hold the joystick only part of the way up and then press A.

Spamming jump during the chaingrab won't waste your double jump since you won't jump at all if the chaingrab continues.

Even so, Falco shouldn't be chain grabbing Ness anyway. He can probably grab you twice and that's about it. If you continue getting chain grabbed, you're either playing wifi or you're not aware that Ness can escape even the first grab. You should be able to DI away and spot dodge, though spot dodging isn't suggested by some. I spot dodge just in case they come in with the Gatling Kick.

 

[Ref]

Falco can grab more than twice... Buffer the dash grab of falco's chain grab better.

 

[Popertop]

dash grab chain grab is terrible.
you have a chance to trip.
only walking chain grab.
and if he just gets one grab, he can still dair you after it i think

 

[Ref]

Yes Walking is better but I tested this with the dash grab.

 

[Popertop]

irregardless, Falco is ghey.

I like Ness.

 

[Gindler]

Wait a minute. That's not true for all of us. I also main Ganon and to some extent Yoshi and I believe Ness has an advantage against them.

Yeah, Ness does a pretty good job against yoshi. Beats him in the air anyway which is where he likes to be. I'm pretty sure if somehow my Ness could play my yoshi the ness would win

 

[CanadaKid91]

Hmm...I have another question:

I've come across the term buffering, used in the context of buffering a dash grab.
What exactly does this term mean, and how is it accomplished? Also, what is this used for?

Thanks in advance

 

[Uffe]

Falco can grab more than twice... Buffer the dash grab of falco's chain grab better.

I used to dash to grab, but it hardly works. I was told that I should walk and do it and so now I do.

 

[Levitas]

Hmm...I have another question:

I've come across the term buffering, used in the context of buffering a dash grab.
What exactly does this term mean, and how is it accomplished? Also, what is this used for?

Thanks in advance

Buffering is pretty much just inputting the next move while you're still in wind-down lag from the last one. It makes your moves happen as soon as they can possibly happen.

You do the moves exactly as you normally would, but sooner.

I hope this helps clarify things.

 

[Earthbound360]

lol it was meant as a semi-joke but whatever

 

[CanadaKid91]

Buffering is pretty much just inputting the next move while you're still in wind-down lag from the last one. It makes your moves happen as soon as they can possibly happen.

You do the moves exactly as you normally would, but sooner.

I hope this helps clarify things.

I understand now. Thank you kind sir.

 

[Ref]

Buffering is actually inputted in most games more specifically most fighting games.

Levitas explained this one well.

 

[lilmister]

would a good stage for Ness be Shadow Moses?
I mean if those two pillars on the sides were gone then Ness's fthrow would be ftw since it is reluctant of damage percentage. I dunno just a thought

 

[xoxokev]

would a good stage for Ness be Shadow Moses?
I mean if those two pillars on the sides were gone then Ness's fthrow would be ftw since it is reluctant of damage percentage. I dunno just a thought

yeah i suppose you have a point... but i'd say Ness gets most of his kills from spiking and his bthrow... Shadow Moses only gives Ness the advantage with his fthrow and ONLY when the walls are broken...

some better stages are Pirate Ship and Delfino Plaza (duh)

 

[PMKNG]

I've used fthrow before in Shadow moses, but for you to be playing there seriously, there's not much of an advantage.

Then again here in florida Shadow moses, pirate ship and delfino are all banned from tourneys. Idk if delfino is still a counterpick...i doubt it.

 

[Popertop]

Why would anyone even think of Shadow Moses not being banned?

 

[Ref]

Shadow is a possibly good stage, but unless you knock out the walls, Back throw won't kill very fast...

Eh... They can also probably grab release you against the wall if holding you on the ground, if you are in the air, then DI towards them to create space until you get enough space to DI away and not get grabbed.

Oh and chain grabs will do bad things to you on this stage..

It's illegal in tournaments.

 

[thesage]

Ness can grab release people against a wall. I think a lot of people can do this. I learned this in a mm.

 

[Ref]

Ness can't... A lot of characters can't unless they hold the other in the air and make them ground break, then maybe they can...

Or you can just be Bowser.

The players who were in the MM couldn't time is spot dodge.

 

[thesage]

if he spotdodge then just d-tilt. All I'm saying is that it can lead into an infinite.

 

[Ref]

Umm... D tilt on wall isn't infinite... And spot dodge to roll...