Ness Question and Answer Thread, Ask Ness questions Here!

[xoxokev]

yep here's the link

http://www.smashboards.com/forumdisplay.php?f=89

its mostly melee, but sometimes you'll find brawl

 

[kennypu]

oh wow I didn't know such forum was active. It looks like they have more tourney listings than the tourney listing thread too :3

 

[Red(SP)]

This has probably been answered in the topic, but is there any good stratagies against character MU's like,

Ness vs MK
Ness vs. Zelda
Ness vs. Wolf
Ness vs. Snake

I seem to only have trouble with these paticular MU's.

 

[PSI.kick]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=188116
theres the mu discussion thread, idk how to use it haha i never have xD

I'm pretty sure there's a search button or something so just read the OP for info.

 

[Neon Ness]

This has probably been answered in the topic, but is there any good stratagies against character MU's like,

Ness vs MK
Ness vs. Zelda
Ness vs. Wolf
Ness vs. Snake

I seem to only have trouble with these paticular MU's.

Well I don't know how dated some of those discussions may be that PSI.kick provided. Hrmm.

Fortunately we talked about Snake recently. http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=289105 Could give you some ideas.

But to be honest, the best way to learn matchups in my opinion is to just play people who main those characters in tournaments/friendlies. What exactly is the "trouble" you're having? If we knew what it was specifically we could help out.

Watching (offline) tournament videos of these matchups can also help if you know what to look for. For Ness v Snake for example, I really like FOW's set against DSF even though it is sort of old by now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH_UAQeBCzk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zzjYaE5sQeI&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X8-wYj2AeuI&feature=related

Pay attention to how Ness acts in each situation, see which ones make sense and which ones don't, and try to add some of this stuff to your own game in actual matches. There are some videos worth checking out in the Video Thread as well. It also helps to look through the character's boards you're having issues with and see whay they have to say.

 

[Yink]

This has probably been answered in the topic, but is there any good stratagies against character MU's like,

Ness vs MK

This can be troublesome if you get offstage, so be careful. Fair and PKF go through Nado, so use them effectively. Space well and do NOT get grabbed. He can dsmash you out of a release. I'd just harass with PKF and fair, some Nairs...but seriously, use Fair. It's probably Ness' only aerial that beats out a lot of moves (yet doesn't really trade hits). Use Bthrow well, because he's pretty light.

Ness vs. Zelda

Force the approach. Get in there with Fair, and then camp like crazy. What's she going to approach you with? Din's Fire? Absorb it. I believe Zelda has a grab release dtilt > another grab release (so I've been told) so watch out for that too.

Ness vs. Wolf

I always think this is a hard match-up the first time you try it. Don't be deceived by Wolf when he looks far enough away, his smashes reach. Make sure you don't get caught offstage with lasers. I don't know a ton about this particular match-up, but the first time it's pretty hard.

Ness vs. Snake

Yay. I do this match-up all the time. I'd say be careful of Fair this time around because if Snake throws a Nade at you, it'll more than likely explode. Use Nair instead. Uthrow is actually not a bad idea for this match-up either, because Snake's air game isn't stunning. Don't let him outcamp you...you're going to have to get close sometime or other, so grab a grenade of his (if he's using them) and close in if it's safe. If he doesn't have one, Fair all day and use PKT in the air. You can gimp Snake two ways, with dair, or the magnet reflect.

I seem to only have trouble with these paticular MU's.

Answers in red, hope that was helpful to you.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I've very recently to make Ness my main.(The kid's fun to play as)

I'm YarsRevengerson(UndeadApparition, U.A. in Brawl) and I used to main Dedede.

Anyhoo, I'd like some critique on some matches I recorded against a good friend of mine, and anything that can be offered would be nice

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCFP4SW50yY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvSpLOTwqr0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3r0HCT4QEg

 

[Neon Ness]

You have a really weird Ness if you don't mind me saying lol. I mean that in the best way possible though.

I thought you pulled off some pretty impressive things, I was almost shocked how many times you pulled off an fsmash. At the same time though your opponent made a lot of mistakes like poor DI, trying to grab from too far away, facing the wrong way, etc. So it's hard to tell which parts were really 'legit' I guess, some fsmashes were the product of perfect spacing and other times they were unsafe but lucky. I would say use them less than you did in those matches since it's a pretty risky move, try to only use it when you know it'll hit, or to punish a roll or something.

Speaking of rolls, try not to roll towards your oppnent, you got punished for that a few times. I think it's generally a habit to get rid of.

When you're in the air and returning to the ground, don't always drift towards your opponent and try to hit them with an aerial. It's easy to shieldgrab this tactic. Sometimes it's best to land onstage as far from them as possible to be safe.

Momentum canceling is best done with nair and bair, I believe. You tried with dair a few times.

When they're above you, sometimes it's best to try to juggle with up B instead of jumping and chasing with an aerial, which you tried a few times in the beginning of match 1. PKT can be really useful offstage with messing with people. Be careful about chasing Meta Knight offstage, he pretty much trumps Ness there. I mean I guess it depends on the player, but sometimes playing it safe and pressuring from a distance with PKT is the better option.

You should keep using Ness, pretty good considering he's only your second. You can post future videos in our Video Thread.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

You have a really weird Ness if you don't mind me saying lol. I mean that in the best way possible though.

I don't know how to take that, but I'm assuming you didn't mean it to offend me, haha.

I thought you pulled off some pretty impressive things, I was almost shocked how many times you pulled off an fsmash. At the same time though your opponent made a lot of mistakes like poor DI, trying to grab from too far away, facing the wrong way, etc. So it's hard to tell which parts were really 'legit' I guess, some fsmashes were the product of perfect spacing and other times they were unsafe but lucky. I would say use them less than you did in those matches since it's a pretty risky move, try to only use it when you know it'll hit, or to punish a roll or something.

Actually, my friend woke up recently, so that may be the cause of some of his mistakes, though I was wide awake and the mistakes I made were simply mistakes. I have a couple habits some of which I've picked up that are pretty detrimental to my playing overall that I'm currently trying to break.

Speaking of rolls, try not to roll towards your oppnent, you got punished for that a few times. I think it's generally a habit to get rid of.

I'll keep that in mind

When you're in the air and returning to the ground, don't always drift towards your opponent and try to hit them with an aerial. It's easy to shieldgrab this tactic. Sometimes it's best to land onstage as far from them as possible to be safe.

I'll also keep this in mind

Momentum canceling is best done with nair and bair, I believe. You tried with dair a few times.

The said thing is that I actually know this, but one of those habits I mentioned earlier is related to DI'ing and Momentum Canceling and I'm currently trying to work out of it

When they're above you, sometimes it's best to try to juggle with up B instead of jumping and chasing with an aerial, which you tried a few times in the beginning of match 1. PKT can be really useful offstage with messing with people. Be careful about chasing Meta Knight offstage, he pretty much trumps Ness there. I mean I guess it depends on the player, but sometimes playing it safe and pressuring from a distance with PKT is the better option.

I'll remember that, as a Dedede main I'm used to chasing with aerials, though, I'm starting to pick up how to use PKT. It's coming along. I've also learned that fighting MK offstage is indeed a horrible idea. The hard way.

You should keep using Ness, pretty good considering he's only your second. You can post future videos in our Video Thread.

Thanks for the critique! I'll be sure to paractice my Ness(Seriously, he is really fun to play as) and I'll be sure to work on some of the stuff you mentioned.

 

[PSI.kick]

I just watched the first game, it was good.
tasty trip>fsmash for the last kill... mmmmmm....

ill watch the rest soon.

 

[Eagleye893]

okay... even though I'm not really recommended for taking ness' playstyle from, you can watch some randomness on this:

http://www.youtube.com/user/Eagleye893

//posting in video thread in a minute or two.

Eh, Neon... My playstyle ain't weird enough?


Generally safe tactics that I use when someone is on the ledge and I'm onstage:

SHFF Dair (moving somewhat near edge then retreating, timing right) > something
^Works more for higher than 100%... in fact, I do that almost only for over 100% on my opponent.

SH PKfire or FH PKfire onto a platform (such as BF) so that the fire bolt goes over the ledge and at that angle downward.
^the SH version is risky, the FH version is situational, but worth it.... you can also use PKjump, but that's more for specific occasions. It travels in a way that will almost ensure a PKfire hit if you are timing it perfectly... but it's easily seen, and also easily reacted to. I've used it less over time, but it has it's usages.

dtilt x2(3?) > Shield > something
^What I like doing lots. If I'm close enough, it's sure to do something amazing (I HAS GREAT BAITING MANEUVERS! XD) you dtilt once or twice during part of the invincibility frames of the opponent... sometimes, they will think "EH! GETUP ATTACK WIN!" and they do it... which is why i shield. The normal human reaction time doesn't counter it too well combined with many character's getups. If they don't do anything, you should have started at just the right time to get them in their non-invincible frames at least once. If only once, step back slightly and wait. If more than once, I say shield like normal. <THIS ALL DEPENDS ON SITUATION!! I'm really just thinking aloud.... That's my thought process in milliseconds. If they instead decide to jump, roll, or getup from ledge, you are almost assured a hit if you shielded. OoS nair, OoS uair, Drop shield>dsmash gets rolls (depends on character, but you can also turn-around to usmash if you want and catch some people), OoS dair, OoS bair... really, I doubt enemies will do these options. If they do, take advantage.

^sorry for rant.

I do other stuff for ledge too, but I just like those. I had to mention, because you used Fair as your opponent was on the ledge... might work with DDD, but not ness. Ness' Fair doesn't really hit below him very well... I've learned that over time.


okay, I like dash attack usage... nice... sometimes unneeded, but Oh well.
PSI MAG!! (good for most... one time, you missed an easy absorb, but I won't count it against you, since you didn't get hit)
DTILTx2 > Followup IS TOO PRO!
FH Aerials > SH aerials on higher percents (I think you didn't have too much trouble with that, but just to keep on mind)
Ftilt can kill unsuspecting victims... I liked the usage of it that you showed in the first match.
less fair, more nair/uair/bair/dair.... All of ness' aerials are good in appropriate usage (Uair is the king of landing, bair is the king of super great timing and spacing, Nair = supah speed, Fair = CAN'T TOUCH THIS!!, Dair = MINDGAMES!! SO MUCH DAMAGE and GOT SPIKED NUB!)
cool fsmash... don't disagree particularly... good in moderation, which is what you did for the most part...
Needs moar SDI (you said you have to work on momentum canceling/DI, but just putting it out there...)


On an unrelated note, Learn to play chess (exercises mind), learn to be ueber pro at using butterfly PENS (not knives; don't want people cutting themselves... If anything, a super-dull bladed butterfly knife) (SUPER AWESOME HAND/FINGER CONTROL!), and read people like books... and read books like people... wait... idk.

 

[xoxokev]

keep practicing. need more utilt and dtilt imo also, more nair oos

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

keep practicing. need more utilt and dtilt imo also, more nair oos

Whether this was towards me or not, when exactly should you use utilt?

I mean, I use it sometimes, but definitely not a lot.

On an unreltaed note, I have actually been utilizing more aerials than I did before (though, fair will always be my favorite) I've also been practicing using PKT as well as setting up PKT2. Still working on SDI/DI/Momentum canceling, but I'm starting to make progress.

 

[P.I.E.]

Not sure if anyone's figured this out/asked this alrdy but do you think another good use for magnet wind is to prevent a deathly spike? Sounds risky, but I think its something to consider

 

[Eagleye893]

spike....... hmmm..... It SHOULD work, but the problem is that most spikes make the character move too fast to appropriately react and wind them.

theoretically, yes; practically, no.

 

[PSI.kick]

if im not mistaken, you have to perform an aerial or wait a long time first after you're in knockback before you can use a b move, but maybe it's different with spikes idk. if it is then it should work fine.

this makes me want to skip school.

 

[Eagleye893]

... If you are talking about YOU being the one spiked, then there is no way for magnet to save you... Magnet's windbox can save someone in a 2v2 who is on your team, but there are a couple problems, the main one being that you might end up just getting yourself spiked or set yourself up for death.

 

[PSI.kick]

I think he means by using a b-reversed psimag so it cancels your momentum... i may try it out later if i get the chance just to check.

 

[Earthbound360]

PSI Magnet has no momentumm cancelling abilities that can save you. If you can use PSI Magnet, that means at that point, you would have been able to use another aerial or double jumped instead.

If this is a normal attack, PSI Magnet will actually boost you away from the stage unfortunately. With spikes you need to have recovered from the initial stun.

 

[Eagleye893]

^what EB360 said.

B moves don't come out quick from knockback, and thus won't save you from a spike if you are going 1v1 versus someone.

In a 2v2, it is possible for ness to psimagnet wind a teammate who is getting spiked to attempt to slow the falling speed, but it's impractical...
Basically, only use psimag offstage if you want to bereverse it (meaning reverse horizontal momentum in attempt to avoid an opponent)

 

[MugiwaraYonkou]

Hello...i don't know if this is the right place to put my question. But here it is anyway.
I have some videos using Ness, he is my main character, but i don't know how to upload'em...
Can someone tell me how can i see the videos in my computer? or how can i upload them in youtube?

Thanks

 

[Wave⁂]

YouTube is ideal, and by far the most commonly used method. You need an account to upload videos.
Alternatively, you could try stuff like Rapidshare, Mediafire, or Dropbox.

 

[xoxokev]

Hello...i don't know if this is the right place to put my question. But here it is anyway.
I have some videos using Ness, he is my main character, but i don't know how to upload'em...
Can someone tell me how can i see the videos in my computer? or how can i upload them in youtube?

Thanks

if you have the files as .bin, you need a capture card to record your replays, the .bin files do not translate into video files when you upload them to your computer. they are merely a list of commands that the game uses to reeact your matches. check out the videography forums for more info

 

[PSI.kick]

What are some of ness's best out of shield options?

 

[Chuee]

Nair, Jab, grab.

 

[Eagleye893]

FH pkfire is good too...

 

[PSI.kick]

like jump pkf or just drop shield then pkf? what should i be doing when their shield pressure lightens up for half a second other than rolling?

 

[kennypu]

FH pkfire is good too...

if its OOS, most of the time it means that the opponent just hit your shield, thus you want to do something OOS, so a FH pkf wouldn't be good since its too slow and it'll leave you open.

like Chuee said, nair is really good, you can probably out-prioritize their move before they even hit your shield.
jab and grab both works too. If you're quick you can land a bair. you can fair, but depending on their percentage and their weight, it might just leave you open and you'll get punished.

If they are close enough, you can dtilt too

 

[Eagleye893]

Yeah... I only really use FH Nair...

 

[Uffe]

What are some of ness's best out of shield options?

Nair, jump away, grab, whatever is actually useful. It depends on what position you're in.

 

[PSI.kick]

when im jumping oos do i drop it before i jump or jump and then drop my shield? you can jump straight out of a shield like an usmash right?

 

[Uffe]

when im jumping oos do i drop it before i jump or jump and then drop my shield? you can jump straight out of a shield like an usmash right?

What buttons do you use to attack and block? Here's what I do, because I use the default settings on my controller.

Hold R > X + A OoS

If you're using default settings for your controller, try something like that. Of course if you block with L and/or jump with Y, then use those instead of R and X. I hope this isn't confusing for you. See if you can hold your shield and press your jump and attack button at the same time. This is especially useful for Double Aerial Shuffles (DAS).

 

[xoxokev]

utilt works in certain situations too

 

[AvariceX]

Don't forget usmash. Not only does it have great range as far as Ness' moves go and do solid damage and knockback, but it's also one of the fastest OoS options - only slower than jab, grab, and nair. edit - and utilt

 

[Eagleye893]

@avarice: now that you mention it, I remember how often I've been using yoyo lately...

Usmash is good...

 

[PSI.kick]

that it is.
when you're jabbing do you drop shield first then jab?

 

[Eagleye893]

^well yeah.. You have to... Only moves that involve jumping or an up direction (minus utilt) can be used directly OoS. Others require a drop.

 

[AvariceX]

Or grab.

10grabs

 

[Eagleye893]

Or grab... But that's special....

 

[xoxokev]

utaunt oos is better