Ness Question and Answer Thread, Ask Ness questions Here!

[Bartolon]

Please guys, LEARN TO FIGHT VS OLIMAR. I always hear this whining about olimar while he isn't THAT HARD.

Just nair your way through stay in the air, space your moves blabla.

 

[Eagleye893]

Only use aerials that have little ending lag, or those that you can easily jump out of after landing. AKA, avoid DAS for most cases. Always land behind oli if he had his shield up.

Bair is useful... You can nair if he happens to throw a yellow, or you can end up with a uair landing...

Fh pkfire is good, but be unpredictable with it.

Pkjump is meh. If you get it spaced right, you can avoid punishment, but not = grabbed.

Oh, don't land predictably.

 

[PSI.kick]

ok thanks eagle.
Bartolon i'm not whining about it lol i just don't know what to do against him cuz i almost never play the mu but i will be soon. And yeah i'm pretty sure ness has the advantage in it anyway right?
anyway, thanks and ill practice pkfire techniques haha

 

[Chuee]

Ness doesn't have the advantage

 

[PSI.kick]

I thought it was like 55-45 or something, maybe not anymore idk. it does seem pretty even to me

 

[Bartolon]

Don't listen to chuee, he is a failing troll =(
And he mains lucas x)

 

[Jiffyboob]

It's either even or slight Oli advantage imo. I think we discussed Oli like a month or two ago somewhere.

 

[Chuee]

Don't listen to chuee, he is a failing troll =(
And he mains lucas x)

Not trolling.
Ness doesn't beat Olimar.

 

[Yink]

Not trolling.
Ness doesn't beat Olimar.

Yeah this really isn't trolling.

Ness doesn't beat Olimar. It's a tough matchup and it should be in Olimar's favor.

 

[Player-4]

Everything is in Olimar's favor

 

[Chuee]

Unless you metnite.

 

[xoxokev]

who's the mod in here now?

 

[Chuee]

Neon Ness.

 

[PSI.kick]

hey what should i do for playing team games as ness, i think ill be playing with a kirby idk yet...

 

[Yink]

hey what should i do for playing team games as ness, i think ill be playing with a kirby idk yet...

Here's a few tips, since I seem to be pretty successful in teams (I wish Shaky was here to give some advice, he's so great at teams):

-Find a high tier who is good at racking up damage/or killing (MK, Snake)
-Find someone who can heal you (ZSS, Lucario)
-Learn to stock tank in some instances (try for as good DI as you can, try to live to high %s)
-Pay attention to your partner
-If you need help MAKE SURE TO ASK FOR IT AHHHH.
-Be careful offstage, even in teams

Those are just a few things to consider. Hope it helped.

 

[Eagleye893]

Remember PSImag wind... Momentum halting your opponents and teammates is uber fun.

 

[PSI.kick]

haha yeah i read about that and saw the vid for lucas/ness team it was epic xD

ok guys thanks for the help

and yeah pk jumping is sooper hard what are some other good ways for approaching? i know sh fair is a good edit: DEFENSIVE* one...

 

[Eagleye893]

PKjump isn't hard... for me...

Fair isn't particularly good for approaching.... it is good for DEFENSIVE approaching. (You need to retreat fair in order for it to do what you want... or hit with it and then go forth...)

I recommend either RAR FH bair, RAR Nair, RAR FH Nair, Nair, RAR bair, or just FH PKfire.

RAR bair, because it can hit taller opponents in the face on the way up and I like bair.... It also catches people offguard and allows for a falling nair/uair/airdodge to whatever.... I need to check though, because I haven't used this one in a long time... like srsly.
RAR Nair b/c you get uair as an option... uair has insane backward range... you'd be surprised how far it hits.
RAR FH Nair, because you can bair and uair going down, and if you really need to you can maneuver for a fair landing and nair if your opponent has some quicker stuff.
RAR bair is my favorite. You have to space it perfectly though. You get uair and nair to end it with, but I recommend using DJ after it... If you are super pro, you can reverse pkjump from that SH RAR bair... It requires so much precise timing.... not worth the risk.
FH PKfire is just a great move for any situation. Done right, you get a uair on landing and it can catch people offguard very well.

Something I found with FH PKfire.... I don't know how to execute it perfectly every time, but I've been able to make it so that (I believe) I begin movement like a RAR, then PKfire forwards (direction ness isn't facing), and it wavebounces... It's so weird... It gets you like an extra couple inches of movement away from your opponent for some safety, and you can fake out opponents and make more precise PKfires... This requires usage of L button as jump.... Regular, you may not be able to pull out pkfire quick enough and can undergo some landing lag.

I just say anything FH can be used as a successful approach, except maybe dair... FH dair is only if you expect your opponent to think you are going downwards.

 

[PSI.kick]

Something I found with FH PKfire.... I don't know how to execute it perfectly every time, but I've been able to make it so that (I believe) I begin movement like a RAR, then PKfire forwards (direction ness isn't facing), and it wavebounces... It's so weird... It gets you like an extra couple inches of movement away from your opponent for some safety, and you can fake out opponents and make more precise PKfires... This requires usage of L button as jump.... Regular, you may not be able to pull out pkfire quick enough and can undergo some landing lag.

I just say anything FH can be used as a successful approach, except maybe dair... FH dair is only if you expect your opponent to think you are going downwards.

Yeah i'm pretty sure that i've done that a few times, and i use normal controls (i've tried using L as jump sometimes but i really need a new controller if i want to do that cuz my L/R buttons are really weird...) its definitely one of those "WHAT THE HECK JUST HAPPENED" kind of things.

Thanks eagle ill definitely use those next time i play, i may practice them after school.

and i guess i just dont understand pk jump, the video looked like he was sh pkfire but with a short dj in it and lagcanceled, i saw the difference but i just don't get how to do it... i practiced with the L button as jump and i thought i did it a couple times but then i thought i had just done a dj canceled pkf... i just don't quite get it.

I can test this when i get home but i dont really feel like it: after a fh pkfire can you dj or is there only enough time for an airdodge/aerial?

 

[Neon Ness]

PKjump isn't hard... for me...

It's hard when you consider that the human mind doesn't operate in frames, and in order to do PK Jump there's only like a 1 frame window

PK Jump is when you do an aerial PK Fire immediately after you initiate a double jump. Like I said it's like 1 frame.

Assuming you used L to jump it would go something like this.

[While holding left or right on the joystick] L > L (1 frame) B

Ness should launch forward in the air a considerable distance while doing PKF.

Also, you can double jump after a FHPKF if done right.

 

[Eagleye893]

You can dj anything from a fh pkfire. You can land with uair, nair, and fair if perfect. Bair comes just short.

The stuff you said for PKjump seemed to confuse me, neon. I'll just state it in my own way.

Set L = "jump";
//Set everything else to normal playing stuff for yourself
//IMO...
Tapjump = false;

// execute in the best way possible.
// L is jump... Can be used if you have DJ still.

if (ness.inAir() == true)
{
L.entry() //nvm this... Too tired.


}


Basically, Input jump, then the same frame or very near it use pkfire in the direction you are facing. It basically ends up being something like (L+B+Forward), but it doesn't matter. If u want the momentum reverse type method, it's basically the above but immediately push back. It can be annoying to the fingers, but you just need to practice a little bit (too much at once doesn't help... Take it one bit at a time)

What I do is have my thumb above B so that it takes about the same time to press L inward as it is to go down to the B button. It's a swift, consecutive motion.

 

[Chuee]

Does PK Jump send Ness upwards like Lucas' zap jump?
I've never seen PKJ/got it to work ._.

 

[Neon Ness]

No, it doesn't send him up. He like launches forward. Not as much as zap jump distance or anything though.

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[Eagleye893]

^That is an accurate display of the PKjump being used. That is what it is... however, that isn't how I recommend using it. The person displaying this is using PKjump by SH'ing and immediately PKjumping out of that SH. That basically gets rid of your DJ, puts yourself on a fairly predictable path, and can easily set up for you getting gimped.

By initiating it so close to the ground, you are making it so that the only option you have out of it is airdodge or nair... both aren't very good for every situation.

Instead, get up to your full SH height and then PKjump. That allows everything but dair to be used before landing.

^The problem with just going outright and SH'ing is that people WILL catch on if that is your only method of using it. This is one reason why I like FH aerials so much: You get something to happen on your way up, you can use other aerials, retreating to get into PKjump placement isn't always going to lead to a PKjump (retreat fair, move back and airdodge to ground, PKT, etc.).

My ideas on using PKjump.


I'm gonna post a video displaying this stuff in a while.... meaning end of October or beginning of November.

 

[PSI.kick]

lol eagle i was just about to ask where in the sh you do it, cool. I basically don't use L for anything except i seem to have the bad habit of trying to momentum cancel with airdodge (>.<) and i don't use my normal button for it... but i shouldn't have any problem switching my L button to jump if i practice it. lol this will probably help my toon link a lot too.

Ok thanks guys

 

[Bartolon]

I don't use L to PK jump. Y = special and then it's soooo easy

 

[Eagleye893]

^you just gave me a great idea, barto... That is awesome!!!!!

 

[PSI.kick]

Is there enough time to do an aerial after a pk jump to cancel the lag? that would fricken pwn and also make my life so much easier for pk jumping, cuz my brain doesn't think in air dodging for some reason, also i would be able to tell if i did it right. And the part about it just being a sick followup, especially with an uair or something.

 

[kennypu]

Is there enough time to do an aerial after a pk jump to cancel the lag? that would fricken pwn and also make my life so much easier for pk jumping, cuz my brain doesn't think in air dodging for some reason, also i would be able to tell if i did it right. And the part about it just being a sick followup, especially with an uair or something.

since you can with a full jump pk fire, I believe you can with pk jump too.

 

[PSI.kick]

i think it would be a good unexpected kill to finish it off with an uair, they'd be like "**** IT WHAT THE **** WAS THAT ****" lol. but yeah ill also be able to figure out if im doing pkjump easier with this, lag canceling is harder to tell if you are doing it right by just quickly doing stuff. ill try pkjumping more later.

 

[Bartolon]

PK jump is mad overrated by u two people, it isn´t even that great.

 

[kennypu]

...i don't even use pk jump -.-
I only use full jump pkf. I never thought pk jump was that great, I don't see the difference in use from a full jump pkf.

 

[PSI.kick]

it sends you like right next to them, i cant use it so i don't really know how good it is honestly, but a lot of people think its good.

 

[Eagleye893]

Not a lot... Just me and barto, apparently.

EB360 was the one who used it the most, but he doesn't really play brawl much anymore.

Trust me, use pkjump. Not only does it help in your fh pkfire usage, but you can hit opponents from obscene distances AND followup that fire. It works so well.

 

[Bartolon]

It is OK if u don't use it too much and only use it on some occasions, but eagle thanks for sharing though, I got it in my playstyle so yeah =)

 

[Eagleye893]

yeah, I agree, it isn't great to spam, but it helps a lot in some situations.

I tried your suggestion on y as special... can't do it.

 

[Bartolon]

=/, It's really not that hard, once you get the timing down for it =)

 

[Eagleye893]

Directed more @dajay, but anyone can answer:
When and where is the next tournament for IL? I can't find anything anywhere, and I really want another go.

 

[xoxokev]

Directed more @dajay, but anyone can answer:
When and where is the next tournament for IL? I can't find anything anywhere, and I really want another go.

check AiB or the regional threads

 

[Eagleye893]

Wait... There are regional threads?!