Ness Question and Answer Thread, Ask Ness questions Here!

[Eagleye893]

whadya mean by platform cancel?

 

[Bartolon]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gg2x22YH2NE&playnext_from=TL&videos=YemuPGhqlvE
Look at 4:24 (He does it more in the match though)

You cancel the lag you will get by jumping ON a platform.
It is done by doing the move "dair" around a certain time before you come on the platform so he cancels your dair and your immediately on the platform.
When people are on a platform they shield.. and what counters shield? YES A GRAB!!
So you can Platform cancel to a dashgrab for example, heck you can even do a pivot grab!
Ness even has one by canceling his DJ into a platform cancel (dsmash his range is like whole the platform so that is pretty neat)

And you can do awesome stuff with it =D.
If you want I can record something so I can show you guys =O

 

[Eagleye893]

thats what I thought, but i hadn't seen it used like that till i saw mr r..............

thats pretty cool.

 

[Dajayman]

When are some good times to DAS (double aerial shffl) Vice? I instead do an instant fair/nair/bair then a rising dj aerial afterwards since it's very safe. I remember you using DAS very well against me when we wifi'd a long time ago. I know how to execute a DAS very well, but I don't know when. My second aerial always seems to be shielded/dodged. :/

 

[Uffe]

I'm not ViceGrip, but I may be able to explain. If your DAS isn't coming out correctly, you may have SH'd too low. Now I can't recall if using Ness' nair auto-cancels, but I do believe his fair does. If you're close enough, you can SH > fair > grab > ?. Nair may or may not work, depending on whether you've landing a DAS on your opponent. If it doesn't land, perhaps you should attempt a grab right away. I believe a good time to DAS would be when you opponent loves dodging. If you must, don't be afraid to nair > retreat your aerial > nair. It works.

 

[Jiffyboob]

DAS is all about timing, I can get a BAir to UAir without changing controller settings
You have to quick. I just use Y to jump the slide my thumb to A while jumping back then using the C-Stick to UAir. Learn when to use the C-Stick.

You'll do a SH BAir then part of the UAir before it auto cancels.

I dont think you can SH too low.

 

[Dajayman]

You two don't read. I can perform a DAS at will, I can do any DAS combination easily. I just need to know when to use it.

And nair unfortunately doesn't autocancel, it has some slight landing lag.

 

[Jiffyboob]

My best answer is: it depends on your opponent.

Do they hide behind their shield alot?
Is their shield low?
What kind of punishment can you expect, if any?
Do they know Ness can do it?
Have they seen you do it?
Can you take advantage of any patterns?

 

[xoxokev]

depends on which DAS you want to use...

 

[Yink]

This is a really generic question: Should I be using Yo-Yo moves a lot? Maybe out of a Double Jumped Dair or something or for just edge guarding or what?

 

[Man of Popsicle]

I like yo-yo because it's unique. And walking away -> Dsmash is too good.
A great thing about Ness is that every single move of his has a use.
Not like with falco and fair lol.

 

[xoxokev]

hyphen smash <3

 

[Kaffei]

I have a question:

Why is Shaky so ****?

 

[Man of Popsicle]

Cause if you ain't first you're last.
Shaky & Bake

 

[Peach Masta]

could someone please give me a list of what every character can do to ness out of the grab release?

 

[Yink]

could someone please give me a list of what every character can do to ness out of the grab release?

Oh MAN. I don't know if we have all of that...someone might take the time to do one (I have class now and work so I hope someone does).

Are there any specific ones you want right now? I might know them.

 

[Uffe]

This is a really generic question: Should I be using Yo-Yo moves a lot? Maybe out of a Double Jumped Dair or something or for just edge guarding or what?

In Melee, just for the edges. In Brawl, it seems a lot better. Use your Yo-yo, just don't make it so obvious that it'll be blocked.

could someone please give me a list of what every character can do to ness out of the grab release?

There is, actually. Ness and Lucas death-grab list. (VERY IMPORTANT. READ NOW!)

Just be sure you don't revive the topic since it's dead. If you're looking to grab release Ness with your character, just know that you can do this to most Ness', but not a smart one. Also, some of this is out of date, and I can see a couple that don't work on Ness at all.

 

[Kaffei]

What % does MK die from Ness B throw from edge/center of FD answer PLEASE

 

[Neon Ness]

Fresh?

Center: ~105-110%
Side: ~80%

Those are rough estimates though. Also, this was done on a CPU that doesn't DI correctly. On a human that knows how to DI the numbers are gonna be higher.

Personally I don't use bthrow to kill on anyone before 120, and even then I get as many pummels in as possible, you just never know.

 

[Uffe]

Actually CPU's do DI. Of course there are also times they don't, so it's better to use another human to do this since you can have them DI all the time.

 

[Peach Masta]

I was just wondering. There was no REAL reason I wanted the list. Just out of curiosity haha

 

[Dajayman]

CPUs definitely don't momentum cancel though, most of the time they just air dodge which does nothing at all to help reduce momentum.

So yeah, those kill %s will be higher.

 

[Frio]

FVCT~ Frio's Video Critique Thread
For a quick and easy to follow critique. ​

What is it?

Too lazy to read those long and boring critiques on the brawl character boards? Well you're in luck. Just send me a video of you playing from Youtube and I'll re-upload it with a critique commentary on My Channel. I'll PM you when I re-upload your video on my channel.

 

[Eagleye893]

@Frio: I have to say, that is a GREAT idea... I'd take this idea and do something with it, but I don't have the time, and you came up with it first.

sadly, no vids of me.

 

[rpgfighter]

*n00b alert*

Whats Gimped?

And how do I do "gimped" things with Ness?

 

[Yink]

*n00b alert*

Whats Gimped?

And how do I do "gimped" things with Ness?

Well:

If you are to "Gimp" someone, you are preventing them from returning to the stage. That's definitely not the best definition ever but it's good enough I'd hope.

So...if you get "Gimped" it means someone did so as above, they completely prevented you from recovering...and sometimes that's an issue for Ness mains especially, because if someone so much as touches the head of PKT you could die. Or...if an MK were to go offstage and Dair you out of your PKT over and over again until you were too far away that's another gimp.

I hope that was helpful for that part, however!:

If you want to gimp with Ness, feel daring and have all your jumps or whatever, you can go offstage and Fair or Nair, just some ideas.

 

[Eagleye893]

Gimp is either 1.) causing your opponent to be unable to recover by edgehogging, using some move to cause their second jump to be eaten up WAAAY too far from the stage, or cause their other recovery move to be out of range of reaching the stage OR 2.) causing a kill at a really low percent.

the 2nd option isn't really considered a gimp, but rather a good kill. the 1st option can be achieved by edgehogging at the right time, using pkt tailwhip to eat the second jump (or fair...) or using PSI magnet to push them from being able to grab the ledge.... all cases are a bit difficult, so ness isn't exactly the BEST character to gimp with, but he can.

EDIT: y1nk's explanation is a bit better. I provided examples of how ness can gimp though

 

[Dajayman]

Gimp's best definition is a combination of all those. Basically gimping someone is when you kill somebody at much lower percents they should be dying from by preventing them from returning to the stage because of good edgeguarding and/or edgehogging.

Ness has a problem of getting easily gimped due to his recovery's startup time and the fact the PKT head can be canceled easily before it hits Ness which causes him to go into freefall.

 

[Tikun]

Gimp's best definition is a combination of all those. Basically gimping someone is when you kill somebody at much lower percents they should be dying from by preventing them from returning to the stage because of good edgeguarding and/or edgehogging.

Ness has a problem of getting easily gimped due to his recovery's startup time and the fact the PKT head can be canceled easily before it hits Ness which causes him to go into freefall.

Nah, that's EarlyKilling.

 

[Dajayman]

Gimping is another way of saying early kill.

 

[Coney]

hiya fellas!

longtime ness fan, first-time ness poster

i'm a ddd main from md/va who quite honestly has gotten sick and tired of the MK and ICs matchups. i tried playing wario for a short while but honestly, for whatever reason i'm just not comfortable with him. and i think his MU with MK is probably about the same as ness' so, i decided i would go with who i knew better...after all, both of them do better than ddd :/

i tried lucas for a little while but even with pink fresh's guidance i never really got close to beating our region's top MKs so i'm gonna stick with ness instead

ness has always been kinda more of a tertiary to me, but now i'm taking him a lot more seriously. my question is, are there any kind of neat tricks, gimmicks or traps that work against either of these two characters or any others? just like, a summary of stupid gimmicks or novelties would be good, no matter how impractical...cause hey, you never know, right?

thanks!

 

[Susi]

Uhm. You want to cp MK with Ness?

Try to read matchup discussion or something helpful. Even tho I think you should try some other char.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

*n00b alert*

Whats Gimped?

And how do I do "gimped" things with Ness?

A Gimp is combo known as b-air->b-air->d-air->PKT1->PKT2 on Brinstar. Oh wait, that's the Shaky combo.

It's still a gimp tho. :3c

 

[Dajayman]

PK Fire is really nice in both these MUs if you can land them, but please learn to full hop lag cancel PK Fire because grounded PK Fire is way too risky in both these MUs.

Grab and throw away MK as much as possible, follow up with PK Thunder to rack on further damage. Grabs are obviously useless on Icies until you kill BaNana, especially since all of Ness' throws are slow to toss the opponent away.

Fair is your beat defenaive friend here, MK can't deal with it's range. DI high and save your DJ when recovering, PKT2 sweetspotted can kill as early as 40% even with DI. Icies double blizzard will easily heal around 50%, and if you Magnet cancel it at the end you can roll/jump away safely.

That's some good general advice.

 

[Eagleye893]

gimmicks with ness on these Characters:

MK
--Fair, if retreated and properly spaced, can hit MK out of his nado.
--PKfire pillar beats nado.
--...... You can't have lots of advantages on MK....
Overall, ness can get a couple of things off on MK and make it SOMEWHAT even, but you don't want to get caught in a bad position.... If so, you're as good as lost.

ICs
--easy separation stuff.
--PKT Head hits one Icy (unless weird stuff happens or the tail)
--ABSORBING BLIZZARD IS FUN! xD
--Reflecting iceshards to force approach.
--PKT inbetween ICs as they are using their belay and you can get popo.
--Other similar crazy stuff when ICs are trying to recover.
--If they are on ledge using any sort of getup, PKFire can hit one of them if timed right.

 

[Chuee]

Uhh no lol.
PK Fire is terrible against both.
MK will punish it every time. His dash speed is way too fast.
IC, maybe when they're camping with ice blocks, but otherwise you risk getting grabbed.
FH PK Fire puts you in a bad position seeing as how both juggle Ness really well.


Against MK:
-When he gets in the air use FH/SH Spaced Fairs depending on where he is.
-Air release when he grabs you, if you don't he gets a CG.
-PKT when he's offstage.
-Be careful when recovering.

Ness really isn't the best choice against MK =/

Against ICs:
-PKF the ice blocks
-PKF is your best option against Blizzard walls, though it's kinda risky =/
-Don't magnet the blizzard unless you're on a platform. The other climber will grab you.
-Fair is good for seperating but it only works when they're above you.
-I think they can pivot grab Nair.
-Nana offstage is a free Dair.

Uhh thats about it =/

 

[Pokemon Trainer Red]

Gimping is another way of saying early kill.

Yes, and no. It's a good way to get an early kill, but if I have trouble landing a smash or an aerial, I'll take my opponent offstage and get him/her there at high percents. A common gimp I like to use while I'm ness would be fair opponent off stage, and pk fire into his second jump, and take it from there. But not too often, because like anything else, it will get predictable.

 

[Yink]

Ness really isn't the best choice against MK =/

That ^. Unless you're very confident you can beat good MKs as Ness which can happen but I still think you have to do twice if not triple the work to get the same end result.

I think Ness vs ICs is one of the most fun match-ups in the game. Nair separates very well and yeah, if you can get Nana offstage it's a free Dair. PKF at a distance for a PKF wall....basically just space PKF. Don't stand right in front of the pair and use it.

 

[Dajayman]

A spaced FH lagless PK Fire is safer on Icies imo.

 

[Eagleye893]

Spaced lagless is worse. They perfect shield and the grab is theirs. Or even Quickly react to our signaling it and shad toward us to get the grab or utilt or ftilt.

Plenty of time with aerial. Keep a slowly backward moving one of those if anything. Ground is slightly better but allows their approach to start.

Keep off pkfire really. While it is good, it's not great against ic's. If anything pkt is better. Hit head-on is separation. Nair, but carefully. Nair separates slightly and uses uair and fair to get away after the sh nair. Fh aerials are much better for the ic's. You get plenty of regroup time with the more air.