Ness Question and Answer Thread, Ask Ness questions Here!

[Arcade]

Look who's talk- *slaps self*

 

[Uffe]

"The only way to get far is by not giving up. If you've gotten far, there is no reason to give up." You like what I did there?

 

[P.I.E.]

Hey, can i send someone some replays of mine for critiquing? I've never really had any experience with tourneys or anything, since I've only been to one official one, and the local brawlers in my area don't present much of a challenge. I need some advice and maybe someone to explain a few ( maybe alot) of brawl terms to me. I strive to get better, because theres always something to learn from someone, and it would mean the world to me if i had some advice so i can work on a few things with ness..


Thanks in advance :D

*Hides somewhere in Saturn valley*

 

[Uffe]

You might have a better chance with Neon Ness or xoxokev if they're willing to take your videos and uploading them. Unless of course you can do that yourself?

 

[P.I.E.]

umm no, idk how to upload my replays. The main reason would be critiqued based on them, so thnx, ill ask them

 

[Eagleye893]

Fupoo helped in uploading my videos! he's vewwy noice!!!

THANK YOU AGAIN FUPOO!!!!

Also, critique at such an early stage of the game is a bit.... less useful, since early on most people are much less willing to listen to themselves being completely bashed.... If you ever do get some of your vids up of you as you play currently, I will critique as much as possible to help you fulfill your dreams of becoming a great ness player. XD I'm not exactly the best (shaky, smash64, vicegrip, Barto, and several others I would put as much better than me) due to my extreme likeliness to make epic failures, but I basically know everything when it comes to ness' game. PSI Magnet is my forte, spacing properly with everything is one of my strong-points, and using every move to it's best intention whenever possible is what I do (hence the seemingly extreme usage of Magnet, Flash, ftilt, and dtilt, more commonly thought of as the less advisable attacks).

My critique is harsh, but often necessary. I feel as if I create a different spin for ness, but need to work out the flaws/kinks before I can be top4 in tournaments over here.... (i haven't gone to one since winter or fall....)

 

[P.I.E.]

ok thanks, i added both your codes

im not new to brawl, ive been playing smash for a while now, but im new to smashboards, and a few years of practice still leaves me with plenty of things to work on.
Though imo, I'm pretty good at critiquing other people, I'm definitely not good at critiquing myself..



btw, can someone explain to me what the title under my name represents? ( says smash rookie)

 

[Neon Ness]

btw, can someone explain to me what the title under my name represents? ( says smash rookie)

It changes depending on how many posts you have. People with special positions have their own titles sometimes.

And oh snaaap another Florida Ness player. There's only like 3 of them.

 

[Eagleye893]

yes... like Levitas' title would say moderator or something like it...

 

[Jon Farron]

I heard there was a way to edgegaurd people with psi magnet, how?

 

[Eagleye893]

significantly unreliable... the push needs to be perfect... basically this way involves you making a precise movement, like you push your opponent JUST enough as they are recovering, and grab the ledge immediately after the push to have them not reach the stage and fall to their death... I haven't done it, so don't get your hopes up... Ness+ it works though
or do you mean the thing where you need to push DDD before he uses his B^?
or do you mean the thing where you momentum halt snake as he uses his c4 to blast upwards?

 

[xoxokev]

yes, what eagleye said.
magnet has a small wind effect. not very feasible... except on snake's c4 recovery

 

[Jon Farron]

how do you mess up snakes c4?
and ddd's upb?
I can see this being possible with peach's umbrella... or if shes floating back to edge?

 

[Eagleye893]

Nah... Peach wins... Doesnt help nearly As much. What you do is go above snake As He Uses his c4 recovery and time it so the wind comes out just as he is below you (not too difficult).

I've seen a couple of people own ddd with wind... Since his upb is affected by movement direction, you can use psi magnet wind (timed really well) so that you blow them back just before he launches up for upb...

 

[Jon Farron]

thanks! i will totally use this on my friend who LOVES to recover using snakes c4 lol

 

[Eagleye893]

revival with relevance....

Although I can't do it right now, I've been contemplating whether or not to create a newer, up-to-date ness "guide." The reason for using the term "guide" so loosely is because I don't want to be babying anyone into a set way of playing... but this would be more of a "what you can do, when you can do it, HOW you do it, and where it's most useful" type of thing... but much more in depth than such simplicity...

I don't want to do all the "describe what this move does and it's techniques," but rather take all of those things, assume you know them, and create a "what do i do with this information?" type of thing. I give great credit to both ref and EB360 for all of their compilation of everything, but (as I want to do with everything) I want to dig deeper and show everyone the practical side of what things can do...

I'll allow a lot of room for all of your guys' contribution, but I just wanna see if you guys would think this is a good idea.... I'll start it up after school and germany (or somewhere in between).

^with this, I'd just copy the PSImag thread that I had up originally so that everyone can look at the one "guide"....

 

[Hanzhou]

Ness vs Link GR probelms. What is best way to break this?

 

[Eagleye893]

GR?!?!? I didn't know about that... maybe nair or just don't get grabbed..... or spotdodge.... I thought ness couldn't be GR CG'd.... unless you're talking about combos straight out of the GR, in which case you can't escape that... i think link gets a free dsmash from it.... I'm not entirely sure though....

 

[Yink]

GR?!?!? I didn't know about that... maybe nair or just don't get grabbed..... or spotdodge.... I thought ness couldn't be GR CG'd.... unless you're talking about combos straight out of the GR, in which case you can't escape that... i think link gets a free dsmash from it.... I'm not entirely sure though....

I think it's mostly d-smash. I don't know if it works all the time though (I'm no Link main, I could ask Legan though).

I guess my advice would be work on some better spacing and start to learn the playstyle of the Link you're fighting. People make mistakes too. Other than that, if you can't break free you can try (hope) for an air-release.

 

[Neon Ness]

Ness vs Link GR probelms. What is best way to break this?

Well, when you're on the ground, do your best to stay out of clawshot range. Just real basic, learn the range and figure out a way to pressure/attack Link while staying out of its range. This will also take some opponent-reading--figure out when the person tries to go for a grab. Do they run past you and pivot grab? Do they wait for you to airdodge into the ground and then grab? Once you have an idea of when they try to grab you can avoid it altogether.

Also, I read this in the Wario forum:

I've started a list of Wario's guaranteed grab releases and ways wario can avoid grab releases. I say guaranteed because wario should not be grab released by anyone other than the characters below unless
1. Wario is grabbed an some sort of edge, where his feet are dangling. He will then air release and allow characters to follow it up on him(ex MKs neutral air, Diddy's F air, d air)
2. While mashing out, you press jump or up. He will then air release allowing for follow ups.

I dunno. If #2 is true and universal then mashing jump while struggling should increase the chance of an air release which means not being infinited. But there are probably other factors that influence air release, and I figure forcing an air release is pretty basic. If it was that easy for Ness/Lucas to avoid infinites someone probably would've figured that out already...

I guess my best advice is the 1st paragraph, i.e. don't get grabbed. Link's grab is very punishable so I dunno how often it'll be a problem.

 

[Chuee]

Yup, theres a lot of characters that you can air release out of by doing that.
Pretty useful for Lucas & Ness.

 

[Kaffei]

Is there a video/thread showing Ness' hitboxes

 

[Neon Ness]

Nawp.

I'm sure there's someone in the Smash Workshop who could get those if they had the time, probably rPSI.

 

[xoxokev]

i contacted AMKalmar about it about 5-6 months ago, since he was the first one to start working on it. apparently he stopped working on it because he was trying to figure out a better way to make the hit bubbles show grab collisions and sweet/sour spots... anyway, he asked if i wanted him to continue the old method, but i got too lazy to respond lol. i suppose i could message him again and ask if he could... or rPSI could work on the hit bubbles

 

[Yink]

Is there a video/thread showing Ness' hitboxes

Well, rPSI had a WIP thread with frame data and was going to do hitboxes when he was done.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=263608&highlight=pimpin+those+frames

I'll ask him if he's going to continue it when I see him tomorrow.

 

[Eagleye893]

revival with relevance....

Although I can't do it right now, I've been contemplating whether or not to create a newer, up-to-date ness "guide." The reason for using the term "guide" so loosely is because I don't want to be babying anyone into a set way of playing... but this would be more of a "what you can do, when you can do it, HOW you do it, and where it's most useful" type of thing... but much more in depth than such simplicity...

I don't want to do all the "describe what this move does and it's techniques," but rather take all of those things, assume you know them, and create a "what do i do with this information?" type of thing. I give great credit to both ref and EB360 for all of their compilation of everything, but (as I want to do with everything) I want to dig deeper and show everyone the practical side of what things can do...

I'll allow a lot of room for all of your guys' contribution, but I just wanna see if you guys would think this is a good idea.... I'll start it up after school and germany (or somewhere in between).

^with this, I'd just copy the PSImag thread that I had up originally so that everyone can look at the one "guide"....

My earlier post that was completely disregarded.... So do you guys think it's a good idea? I may try to avoid this site for a while though due to my attempt at moving away from smash for now, but the ideas and concepts are always fresh in my mind, as is everything involving computahs. The depth of thought I put into understanding the whole world around me shan't be put to waste!

Reiterate question so it doesn't get off track: should I create a newer ness guide that goes super in depth?

 

[Yink]

Hmm, sure, I don't think that'd be a bad idea. My only concern for you Eagle is didn't you say you were going to stray away from AiB and SWF soon?

I mean I don't have any objections to a new Ness in-depth at all. Just curious.

 

[Eagleye893]

Yes. Stray away as in visit the sites less. Due to the approaching month(s). It'd be best to do so. But once I get back from Germany I'm going to get writing.

My mind thinks in complex ways. I'm really only coming back to see if responses to the things that I find important to myself are being made. Otherwise, i'm going to just create a rough outline to the guide over the next... Whenever I have free and get to posting later. I'll leave it up for the info that people would like to have posted begin to be posted, but not right now... I've gotta sleep.

 

[xoxokev]

wow. thats a challenging task... but if you're up to it, go ahead. keep in mind to explore and consider all possibilities when thinking about what Ness' options can be in each situation. good luck with that

 

[P.I.E.]

hmm i wonder..... does picking random make the characters any more difficult to fight when theyre a lvl 9 comp?

 

[xoxokev]

hmm, sorry i can't answer your question... i'm not too sure. but my advice is to try to stay away from playing against cpus, unless you're really that bored. i mean, i guess they help you get better, in a technical sense... but they don't help at all with your way of thinking. playing cpus, (in my experience), just leads to conditioning yourself... which is a bad thing

 

[Eagleye893]

The only way in which CPUs help would be to get yourself to play safely. Here's what you do: set it so that you have an insanely high handicap... Start off with one CPU lvl 9 and once you start to win, go up to two (FF off), then three... Then the 300% on you... It helps a lot in seeing all the moves that your opponent does and give you the ability to react in the smartest way, if you are like me... If you are just going blindly, spamming the same playstyle, hoping to get the win, you won't ever be able to win against the three with your handicap, and thus will eventually force yourself to the defensive play of brawl... Also, it forces you to use your brain as much as possible to keep thinking about all the possible moves and wrong things to do in every situation.

Either that or you can play melee and train yourself to react, then readjust to the brawl style...

 

[Dajayman]

Switching between games is a bad idea. IL has Brawl, Brawl+, Brawl-, and Melee tournaments all in the same day and it's tough to go from one game to another because of the different mechanics in each game.

Pretty much don't train for Brawl by playing Melee, treat each game entirely different.

 

[victra♥]

tbh i play a lot better at brawl when i play melee first.

going from melee to brawl is relatively easy for me, and feels somewhat natural. Its difficult vice versa though.

I suppose it just depends on the player. When I play brawl, I have to slow down my game play and i have to be much more passive and patient. Also, its much less technically demanding. I can't say much about brawl+ and brawl- though =p

 

[Dajayman]

It's pretty easy to transition from Melee, Brawl+, and Brawl- to Brawl, Brawl is a pretty simple game.

But going back to these games is tough. I had a terrible B+ tournament set against DLA, his Ganon simply wrecked my Charizard because I didn't have my tech timing down and when I finally started teching moves at the end of our set he simply tech chased me.

 

[Eagleye893]

How have the stickies, and the entire ness board, completely died down?

 

[ViceGrip]

Has it?

I've had a surge of Smashboards re-activity. Dang, bad timing I guess?

 

[Bartolon]

Viceeeee, I still don't get the timing from the sh bair to uair and sh nair to uair @__@

Tell me HOW I CAN SUCCESSFULLY DO IT!!

 

[ViceGrip]

Barrrrrttt! haha, I'll try and explain it more. I know you know how to nair/bair the instant you jump because you use those to punish people oos (at least nair for sure). The timing after you use the nair/bair for the uair is that you have to wait a little bit after the move completes and then tap up on the c-stick. You can't do it too late however or else it doesn't work. It's interesting timing but once you get it down you should almost never mess it up. I wish i could talk about this with frames to give as examples but that's basically it.

TL;DR: after nair/bair wait a tiny sec before pressing up on c-stick but don't do it too late before landing. the window of oppourtunity is somewhat small but it's not hard to do at all once you get a grasp of exactly when that window opens and closes.

As a side note, i find it MUCH more difficult to perform Samus's short hop uair>uair shuffle.

 

[Bartolon]

Hmmm Ok, thanks man!
btw guys, GO LEARN THAT PLATFORM CANCEL it will come in handy ness has a special one ^^