"Nationals" Need to Happen Less Frequently

[[FBC] ESAM]

The amount of nationals that have been happening recently are ruining the chance for different regions to connect.

MLG had attempted to make 5 nationals in the span of 6-7 months. In between those was Apex, which more people were planning to. After MLG, there were just WHOBO3 and Pound in the span of a month. Now, CoT5 and Genesis are in the span of 2 months (June and July I believe). Seriously, the amount of nationals needs to go down. Nothing is truly a national anymore because people save all of their money and then spend it on the national closest to them, and then most people aren't able to afford going to the rest. Top players from all different regions can't possibly go to more than one national because people have stuff to spend money on other than travelling for Smash.

Please, to actually bring the hype back for the game (I know that the preparation for a giant national is super hype), please stop hosting so many nationals. After Genesis just let Apex 2012 be the next one so people have MONTHS to save and plan and practice.

We need to advertise regionals as regionals, and let only 1-2 nationals happen yearly for hype purposes. It will keep the community alive (Melee already has only 1-2 nationals in ROM and Genesis, so we good in that case)

 

[Juushichi]

I couldn't agree with this any more actually.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

/approve

Germany can have a national every month; the furthest away you can be is like a 10-hour drive/cheap train ride. USA... Not so much.

 

[The King]

A National is only a National when a large number of geographically-diverse community members want to attend. A T.O. can announce an event and his intentions to deliver a quality experience all he wants, but the reason the event is a National is because the community embraces the (perceived) quality of the event, the hype surrounding it, and the deep roster of competitors planning to attend.

The fact that there are so many National-scale events in the course of any given year is really a testament to our community's comaraderie, our faith in our TO's to be honest & diligent in delivering a quality event, and the drive to compete and improve.

If someone wants to host an event on a grander scale than a simple biweekly and it generates hype/interest, then it can grow within the community extremely quick. But even if it doesn't generate National attention, it can still become a popular Regional event, and with some dedication may become a popular National later on.

About the money situation, that's what most people do already. They pick and choose just a couple big events a year to travel to & compete within. You'll really only see the top-16 players or so consistently from event to event; others just save up to go to the popular Nationals near them. I mean if you were to look at each "National"'s demographic in terms of where each person is from, you'll see that most Nationals are really just large-scale "Regionals" which also garner some national attention & attendance.

 

[TP]

I agree, except there should be a different national than Apex that we build up toward unless it adopts the ruleset that will allow it to get stickied.

 

[clowsui]

we should have one or two nationals per year

regionals every three months

and locals ALL THE TIME

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

A National is only a National when a large number of geographically-diverse community members want to attend. A T.O. can announce an event and his intentions to deliver a quality experience all he wants, but the reason the event is a National is because the community embraces the (perceived) quality of the event, the hype surrounding it, and the deep roster of competitors planning to attend.

The fact that there are so many National-scale events in the course of any given year is really a testament to our community's comaraderie, our faith in our TO's to be honest & diligent in delivering a quality event, and the drive to compete and improve.

If someone wants to host an event on a grander scale than a simple biweekly and it generates hype/interest, then it can grow within the community extremely quick. But even if it doesn't generate National attention, it can still become a popular Regional event, and with some dedication may become a popular National later on.

About the money situation, that's what most people do already. They pick and choose just a couple big events a year to travel to & compete within. You'll really only see the top-16 players or so consistently from event to event; others just save up to go to the popular Nationals near them. I mean if you were to look at each "National"'s demographic in terms of where each person is from, you'll see that most Nationals are really just large-scale "Regionals" which also garner some national attention & attendance.

I understand what you are saying, but the problem is that most of those "Big Regionals" are supposed to be Nationals, but because of the frequency of these "Big Regionals" the nationals never happen.

 

[The King]

I understand what you are saying, but the problem is that most of those "Big Regionals" are supposed to be Nationals, but because of the frequency of these "Big Regionals" the nationals never happen.

Isn't this exactly what you're asking for in your thread topic?

With two mainstream smash games and a community that's bigger / more active than it's ever been, we as a community are able to afford having more "Big Regional" tournaments without risking the overall attendance rates thinning. It might not be as it was 5-6 years ago, where every tournament you recognized 95% of the same smashers being at each event, but they still bring in decent numbers.

As it stands right now, there are a bunch of "Big Regionals" because many of the best players have the disposable income to travel, can budget for winning at least some money to recoup the losses, and because they love the competition / company.

So we have what... maybe a dozen "Big Regionals" a year, and only 3-4 actual "National" tournaments a year now. I would argue that even the MLG events qualify as "Big Regionals" in this context, as pretty much the only players who make it a point to travel to each one are the high-caliber players who expect to win big; most everyone else in attendance is comprised from the nearby regional community. As far as "Big Name" Nationals, where a large portion of every region is expected to attend, the only ones we've had slated recently are Pound, Apex, and Genesis.

 

[_Rocky_]

Isn't this exactly what you're asking for in your thread topic?

With two mainstream smash games and a community that's bigger / more active than it's ever been, we as a community are able to afford having more "Big Regional" tournaments without risking the overall attendance rates thinning. It might not be as it was 5-6 years ago, where every tournament you recognized 95% of the same smashers being at each event, but they still bring in decent numbers.

As it stands right now, there are a bunch of "Big Regionals" because many of the best players have the disposable income to travel, can budget for winning at least some money to recoup the losses, and because they love the competition / company.

So we have what... maybe a dozen "Big Regionals" a year, and only 3-4 actual "National" tournaments a year now. I would argue that even the MLG events qualify as "Big Regionals" in this context, as pretty much the only players who make it a point to travel to each one are the high-caliber players who expect to win big; most everyone else in attendance is comprised from the nearby regional community. As far as "Big Name" Nationals, where a large portion of every region is expected to attend, the only ones we've had slated recently are Pound, Apex, and Genesis.

I definitely see where you're coming from, but setting those who can afford/profit from going aside, lots of people will be "fooled".

Assume that marthplayer99 wants to go to a national but can only afford 1, so he decides to check for the most hyped one and finds a multitude of tournaments sized and hyped equally. Without knowing which one to pick from those 2 points, he'd logically go for the cheapest one, which is generally the nearest. Without marthplayer99 and dozens of other players like him going to something like Pound 4 was, we'd see a lot less hype due to lower attendance.

Attendance pretty much = Hype at some point lol

 

[Mew2King]

The next nationals after Genesis 2 are MSU and Tourneyplay.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

No, I want nationals to actually get hype. Pound5, Whobo3, and MLGs were all SUPPOSED to be nationals, but because they happen so frequently they just become big regionals.

I put quotes around "Nationals" in the title to clarify.

 

[The King]

I definitely see where you're coming from, but setting those who can afford/profit from going aside, lots of people will be "fooled".

Assume that marthplayer99 wants to go to a national but can only afford 1, so he decides to check for the most hyped one and finds a multitude of tournaments sized and hyped equally. Without knowing which one to pick from those 2 points, he'd logically go for the cheapest one, which is generally the nearest. Without marthplayer99 and dozens of other players like him going to something like Pound 4 was, we'd see a lot less hype due to lower attendance.

Attendance pretty much = Hype at some point lol

No, I want nationals to actually get hype. Pound5, Whobo3, and MLGs were all SUPPOSED to be nationals, but because they happen so frequently they just become big regionals.

I put quotes around "Nationals" in the title to clarify.

Ooo, I like where this thread's going. I can follow both of you guys on your points above, though the direction they're heading is rather... slippery lol.

Combining the points from both quotes, what I'm sensing is that you guys would like Nationals to really feel like a substantial step-up above the so-called "Big Regionals" which are just large regionals that also rake in a bit of national attendance. I suppose that the point inherent in this is: While there are only a few current "Nationals" which are truly a step-up above all the rest in terms of hype/attendance, the over-saturation of "Big Regionals" vying for the designation of National is what's hurting hype & attendance of the big tournaments.

Okay. Here's where it gets slippery though.

There are only a few solutions to a "problem" such as this, with some of the solutions being Red Herrings and others which would actually be destructive to the tourney scene. I quote "problem" only because while it's destructive to the hype of Nationals, it allows more regional events to thrive, thus providing more frequent competition to regions and players who otherwise might not see quality competition for months at a time. Anyways...

#1: Fewer "Big Regionals" occur throughout the course of a year. First of all, this isn't something the community as a whole can control, without actively Unionizing and boycotting regionals for the sake of Nationals lol. The only way that would happen would be if the Tournament Organizers, who themselves are diligent and devoted to hosting smash tournies & improving the community, suddenly decide to stop hosting their tournaments just to benefit the attendance of others.

I mean, the whole reason these TO's tournies are large-scale are because they're usually efficient & competitive tournaments, well-ran by a trustworthy person. That's where a tourney's reputation comes from in the first place... and it's from trustworthy TO's such as this that true "Nationals" are born. It's almost cruel to suggest that terrific "Big Nationals" should suffer or disappear simply to benefit the "Big Nationals".

#2: Try to regulate what constitutes a "National". Good luck, I suppose. This solution could easily become a red herring, as many ambitious TO's, not wanting to see their precious event slip between the cracks of community hype, will actually over-advertise their events as 'THE EVENT' to attend this year. Because honestly... what kind of a TO wouldn't want their event to reach "Big National" status?

#3: I'm out of ideas at the moment, too distracted by work lol.

Edit: Though I covered it a bit above, I'll address one more thing in this edit. Why exactly are events such as Pound, Whobo, MLG, etc "supposed" to be Nationals? They all started out with the same premise within our community: Spread the word about the tournament, create the best possible tournament you can as a TO, and see what happens. Most of the big Nationals that have come & gone started out as simply a Regional tournament, but due to their reputation began attracting a much larger potential attendance.

I suppose that, in short, the bar has been raised for what is truly a "National" these days. With so many utterly-deserving tournaments to attend and so many battle-hardened TO's out there in our community, the "Big Regionals" can end up being just as entertaining and competitive as any community-accepted National.

 

[Supreme Dirt]

We should actually, as a community, decide to hold major nationals. Have some sort of proper ranking system and the like, and have an annual/semiannual national somewhere easily accessible for the largest number of regions. Not just American regions, mind you. Canada is stepping it up lately, we're working to get good enough to take your money. But with so many "nationals", it's hard to attend them for us in Canada.

 

[Tagxy]

This isnt a hard problem to solve, the TO's for nationals just need to start communicating more and stop overlapping their events. It's entirely on the TOs to step it up though and not be so selfish.

Speaking of selfish, it's BS that DBR can plan an event a year in advance, then 5 months before Chibo steals attendance just because he decides he wants to host his own national.

 

[AllyKnight]

need more nationals. 12 per year if so.

 

[The King]

We'll just do Genesis Monthlies instead of it being Bi-Annual. That aught to cover it.

Yep.

 

[Luigi player]

I don't think having only 1-2 would be good lol. That would be really boring. They can always be hype. But it's true if there are more than one per months it's a little too much... but like, 4-6 per year should be good imo.

^ my european point of view so I'm probably biased and it should be less for you guys xD (love watching streams and so many results etc )

 

[Kasper!]

These Nationals need to feel like WRESTLEMANIA

special when it arises and anticipated for months xD

 

[CT Chia]

I agree with the OP

I wish CoT5 wasn't so close to Genesis, but my hands were sort of tied behind my back there. At least however they are on complete opposite sides of the country which helps imo, and that CoT5 doesn't have Melee.

CoT5 was originally set and ready to go in mid-late 2010 but then MLG got announced and I had no choice but to postpone CoT5 because MLG didn't announce their locations and dates till quite late and I couldn't risk it ending up on the same weekend or right next to it in a similar location. Then I got restricted to June at the earliest because of my sponsor and couldn't do early June because that's when I graduate.

But yea, Pound 5 and Whobo 3 getting only 150-entrants is kind of :/

Fortunately we still had Genesis, Apex 2, MLG Columbus, and CoT4 as huge Brawl tournaments so far scoring around 250 for each. I think about 4 per year is a pretty good amount that shouldn't go more than that. MLG is just insane hosting their events 2 months apart from each other and expecting a cap at each one (except for Dallas which was INSANELY close to DC which ruined my chances of going).

 

[Tagxy]

I just wish TOs would communicate more about this. And maybe agree to a range of blackout dates after talking about their national with others.

 

[Lib3r4t3]

No, I want nationals to actually get hype. Pound5, Whobo3, and MLGs were all SUPPOSED to be nationals, but because they happen so frequently they just become big regionals.

I put quotes around "Nationals" in the title to clarify.

I disagree but....

Isn't that good though? A player might not be able to attend all big tournaments within a year, but if the scope of what a large tournament is growing, and nationals are now only regionals, that means we are growing as a community. Our internationals are now getting viewed as nationals and we have a new higher benchmark as an international. They're only names to explain the size of a tournament, and with the definition changing that big events are now seen as smaller, that means our expectations are getting bigger. I can't possibly see how the growth of smash is bad, especially since the large number of nationals people can choose and decide on what works best on their schedule and not have to conform to say the only big tournament even close to them that occurs every year or year and a half.

 

[EPsilon933]

So agree with the tittle. Now to read everything...

 

[hungrybox]

Melee needs more nationals, not Brawl.

True talk

 

[Tesh]

need more nationals. 12 per year if so.

If Ally enters a tournament its automatically INTERNATIONAL.

We should all be keeping track of Ally's tournament attendance.

He just came to WHOBO 3. Texas is almost in Mexico. Thats 3 countries. Thats practically a WORLD EVENT.

What we need is a less World events. Nationals are fine though. Locals can be done on wifi.

 

[Dakpo]

What defines a regional and national? Is national when someone a little farther than 2 states come? or what

 

[Juushichi]

I would imagine that if it grabs a sizable group of multiple out of regions, then it is a national.

Technically, SiiS4 grabbed a good chunk of both sides of the MW, a part of MD/VA and some (upper) EC... but even that seems like just a big regional.

 

[t3h Icy]

The problem isn't the number of nationals, it's how poor Smashers are. The solution to the problem is everyone winning the lottery. It should be the same lottery too so there would be an immediate after party, which would be a Smash tournament.

True talk

Tee hee. n_n

 

[TP]

We should all be making these posts from the venues of different nationals.

 

[Xyro77]

IMO this is what i define as a national


100+ players

Higher payouts(15-20$ for singles/ 10-20$ per person in teams)

3 or more events

Lasting 3 days

Players from 7+ states attending

2+ countries attending.

 

[CT Chia]

I disagree, you don't need more than one country for it to be national, that's why it's called national and not international.

And 7 states doesn't make sense either, it depends on what states. There are 11 states alone in Atl North, so if someone from each of those states came it would still be regional.

Also idk about only 100 entrants, that's incredibly small for a national. I don't know any national that has only 100 people, I would say 150 is the bare minimum, though it is much better to have 200+.

Why does it have to last 3 days? lol

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Chibo you couldn't hold CoT5 in the fall or in the winter of 2012? If there really is no more Pound then that would be pretty ideal IMO. Even if you're tournaments are on opposite sides of the country that still ties up people who had plans to go to Genesis from the EC and even AtL south. It hurts both sides if they have to choose like that.

 

[professor mgw]

There should be 2 Nationals per yer, and like 6 "Big Regionals", once every two months. Then of course regular locals.

 

[CT Chia]

Unfortunately I can't.

I originally wanted it to be earlier, further away from Genesis in April but when I began to work with my sponsor they said they couldn't do it until June at the earliest. I had to do it by the end of June, since that is when the lease on my apartment in Philly is up and I don't know if I'm renewing it yet. I couldn't do it earlier in the month since I'm graduating on June 10th, then the venue is closed the week after that, and I'm hosting it the week after that.

It shouldn't be too bad though. For anyone who plays Melee, there's nothing to worry about since CoT5 doesn't have Melee, so that's already a big thing to consider. Beyond that, for anyone that travels from WC to CoT5 would do so by plane, but only have to drive to Genesis, the opposite is true for EC players going to Genesis and CoT5 (flying to Genesis, driving to CoT5) so that helps. The location of CoT5 to East-Midwest players isn't too far, and just about all of them to my knowledge drive to tournaments around here, they drove to Apex, Pound, etc. The only people that really have to fly to both are Texas area, West-Midwest, and Atlantic South. All things considered, I really don't think they will hurt each other a lot.

And asking me to delay my tournament a year and a half is kind of ridiculous lmao
Not to mention signups are already going on and there are already paid entrants.

 

[Lobos]

If Ally enters a tournament its automatically INTERNATIONAL.

We should all be keeping track of Ally's tournament attendance.

He just came to WHOBO 3. Texas is almost in Mexico. Thats 3 countries. Thats practically a WORLD EVENT.

What we need is a less World events. Nationals are fine though. Locals can be done on wifi.

This is the the dumbest post by far.

 

[ANTi_]

This is the the dumbest post by far.

LMAO i was thinking the same thing.

 

[Blacknight99923]

getting more people into smash is also a solution.

 

[TheZhuKeeper]

I'm gonna take a shower man.

 

[Dark Hart]

good **** kdj zhu

 

[Get Low]

I think 3-4 nationals a year would be sufficient. And, of course, locals all the time, and regionals every few months as well.

 

[luzbwl]

Organize those "big regionals" into something like the evo circuit :\