Most consistent way to CC grab

[soap]

ive always done it by holding down, then jump cancelling a grab out of the crouch.

I just realized that you could just shield to cancel the crouch the crouch and grab out of that.

can u just let go of the stick and grab too?

which method is consistently the fastest?

 

[slartibartfast42]

for some reason when I just let go I jab sometimes... I would say jc it.

 

[Zjiin]

I would say that JC'ing it would be the fastest way to do it, but if your timing isn't perfect or you've been messing it up, the shield grab would be more reliable.

 

[ZoSo]

Easiest way to do it is just hold down and R while mashing A.

 

[KevinM]

I find that way to be easiest as well Zoso.

 

[Europhoria]

I use L and A

 

[slartibartfast42]

I actually use down on the C-stick.... Oh wait that's with peach XD.

 

[chillendude_69]

I should start shielding and then grabbing, i'm constantly jabbing into another jab instead of a grab because i press z too early.

 

[metashinryu]

i press down+y+z is hella faster n ezr

 

[Faithkeeper]

I have a related question:

In what kinds of situations would you CC grab rather than shield grab? On things that are unsheildgrabable? (Which implys that some things can be CC grabbed but not shield grabbed... I'm not sure if this is true, if this is true, and example or two would be nice.)


(at ^) Because if that isn't the case, the only scenarios I can think of to use CC grabbing would be when one's shield is in danger of being broken or poked. Perhaps when under alot of shield pressure, like falco's pillaring?

Essentially, an explanation (or link to an explanation) of the uses of CC grabbing would be very much appreciated.

EDIT: I have no problem performing the technique, it it the practical application I am struggling with.

 

[TheManaLord]

to cc grab you gotta crouch cancel then grab

 

[JPOBS]

why would you ever cc grab when you could just JC grab instead?

 

[Faithkeeper]

to cc grab you gotta crouch cancel then grab

If you were replying to me, (I thought you were, upon review of your post I'm not sure, but I'd better be safe than sorry) check my edit, that may clear things up for you.

 

[soap]

i press down+y+z is hella faster n ezr

this is what i've been doing, i mistime it sometimes, but i feel its the fastest for me cuz i always get a half second of shield when i use L and A

I have a related question:

In what kinds of situations would you CC grab rather than shield grab? On things that are unsheildgrabable? (Which implys that some things can be CC grabbed but not shield grabbed... I'm not sure if this is true, if this is true, and example or two would be nice.)


(at ^) Because if that isn't the case, the only scenarios I can think of to use CC grabbing would be when one's shield is in danger of being broken or poked. Perhaps when under alot of shield pressure, like falco's pillaring?

Essentially, an explanation (or link to an explanation) of the uses of CC grabbing would be very much appreciated.

EDIT: I have no problem performing the technique, it it the practical application I am struggling with.

when u can not block something in time, or dash away, just hold down. Just get into a habit of doing that and u will figure out when it works

to cc grab you gotta crouch cancel then grab

fail

why would you ever cc grab when you could just JC grab instead?

make more sense

 

[Juke]

After someone hits my shield I hold down and mash A. This works very well because most people try to avoid getting shield grabbed by using jabs.

I also start holding down and mash A after I do a laggy move(Marth's fsmash or over+b) and will not be able to shield the incoming attack in time.

 

[FastFox]

Say you're Falcon, and you're about to get slapped in the face by Sheik. cc -> grab. It has its uses.

 

[TheManaLord]

I think what a different poster was trying to say is, why not just shieldgrab it? You won't take any damage and you'll still get the grab.

 

[KosukeKGA]

What has less lag... Holding up your shield or just crouching?

 

[soap]

its a case by case scenario. some things have too much shieldstun to grab but u can cc grab it, or be able to do a ground move that is faster than grab (peach dsmash, marth dtilt, etc.)

 

[KosukeKGA]

Hm, you're right. Dumb question of me.

 

[ArcNatural]

Not to mention that CC grabbing also has it's uses when you need to be pushed away a bit to avoid counters (jabbing/shine) So things like CCing Fox's nair allows you to grab while avoiding the shine where as a majority of the time you can not shield grab that approach unless they mess up.

Also, CC grabbing can be done while attacking as long as it's grounded. It also turns you around if you get attacked from behind. Both of which shielding does not allow you to do and is immensely useful in certain situations. Simply put, if your grounded, regardless of anything your doing if you think your going to get hit you should be CCing.

Also, if your grabbing you should always be CCing (except probably high % where you need survival DI) because if they do something that isn't a grab you can possibly counter right after it (this is how you counter jabbing pretty much).

It's something that's hard to get used to, but if you watch pro matches you'll realize that they CC practically everything that isn't shielded. That should be enough to realize that actual effort should be made to make CCing completely natural to do.

 

[KevinM]

I would like to reiterate that I would cosign to everything Arc says... ever.

 

[KAOSTAR]

I would like to reiterate that I would cosign to everything Arc says... ever.

yup Ill just cosign for u then lol. Whos got my back ?????? lol

If im grabbing on the offense I jc or with m2 occasionally dash attack cancel grab.

Defensively as marth I like to CC grab dashattacks instead of trying to shield grab and have my grab hitbox out in front of my opponent which just leaves me open for another attack.[fox: look at that upsmash] This i find especially useful against marios and foxs falcos. anyone with that sliding motion.

The reason is that I can usually grab much faster and not get screwed over by the shield stun and by the time im able to grab they are too close.

To be honest I also tend to botch shield grabs in between getting jabbed but since im CCing anyway I just mash the a button which gets my grab off anyway. persistance!

Also like already mentioned. You get turned around lol almost like an autograb.

Im almost always CCing because I play characters that constantly WD and Im holding down for a good deal of close ranged combat.

 

[Oracle]

Well as Kirby Kaze told me once, canceling crouch with sheild is a little bit slower, and that apparently matters at high level play

 

[soap]

Not to mention that CC grabbing also has it's uses when you need to be pushed away a bit to avoid counters (jabbing/shine) So things like CCing Fox's nair allows you to grab while avoiding the shine where as a majority of the time you can not shield grab that approach unless they mess up.

Also, CC grabbing can be done while attacking as long as it's grounded. It also turns you around if you get attacked from behind. Both of which shielding does not allow you to do and is immensely useful in certain situations. Simply put, if your grounded, regardless of anything your doing if you think your going to get hit you should be CCing.

Also, if your grabbing you should always be CCing (except probably high % where you need survival DI) because if they do something that isn't a grab you can possibly counter right after it (this is how you counter jabbing pretty much).

It's something that's hard to get used to, but if you watch pro matches you'll realize that they CC practically everything that isn't shielded. That should be enough to realize that actual effort should be made to make CCing completely natural to do.

very nice post

 

[slartibartfast42]

its a case by case scenario. some things have too much shieldstun to grab but u can cc grab it, or be able to do a ground move that is faster than grab (peach dsmash, marth dtilt, etc.)

Are you suggesting that CC grabbing Peach's downsmash is a good idea? I think you're thinking of float canceled fair, XD.

 

[soap]

Are you suggesting that CC grabbing Peach's downsmash is a good idea? I think you're thinking of float canceled fair, XD.

no, i was suggesting using peaches dsmash out of your cc as an alternative to grab to show that u have more options out of a cc than a shield where u can only grab

 

[slartibartfast42]

sorry, I misread.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Yea I love CC. Recently one of the most important defensive options I been working on are the double stick techs. If I miss an Fsmash as marth I hold down on the Cstick while they are getting ready to attack me and DI accordingly and often get a stick tech off. [have to hit R b4 you get hit within 20 frames cuz u cant tech during hitlag]

 

[KirbyKaze]

CC is one of the stupidest things in the game.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

yet one of the most amazing things int eh game

 

[KirbyKaze]

Well as Kirby Kaze told me once, canceling crouch with sheild is a little bit slower, and that apparently matters at high level play

This doesn't sound like something I'd say, but I'll buy it because I want to feel intelligent.

 

[choknater]

Ganon's CC Jab is too good. Big daddy of CC

Samus' CC is too good

 

[KAOSTAR]

Ganon's CC Jab is too good. Big daddy of CC

Samus' CC is too good

Man I dont even like to get close like that. CC Down smash OMG lol = **** Fml

 

[ArcNatural]

Well as Kirby Kaze told me once, canceling crouch with sheild is a little bit slower, and that apparently matters at high level play

I'm going to disagree with this for the simple fact that you can grab/jump out of shield on frame 1 providing no lag (with CCing your not getting hit with the shield up, your putting it up after). So that would lead me to believe that if your frame perfect you can literally grab 1 frame after you put the shield up. And this is a regular standing grab, no JC frames. This is also the most common one I see from the tourney scene so I switched to this one over JC and I think I get better results.

On the other hand, trying to CC with JC grab forces you to add the additional frames of the jump before grabbing. Which I'm pretty sure is more than 1 frame.

I don't think CCing then letting go of down and trying to do a regular grab is faster either, most of the time you just dtilt and I think that you have to wait till your character stands back up. And you can't spam this like the other two methods so I think it's the least reliable (if it is even possible I'm not sure).

 

[Dark Sonic]

On the other hand, trying to CC with JC grab forces you to add the additional frames of the jump before grabbing. Which I'm pretty sure is more than 1 frame.

No, it's one frame. The total window is the total number of your character's jump frames. For instance for a 4 frame jump (airborne on 5) the window for a JC grab would be frames 1-4.

So in a sense...they're both exactly the same speed, but holding shield and pressing A is more reliable.

 

[ArcNatural]

No, it's one frame. The total window is the total number of your character's jump frames. For instance for a 4 frame jump (airborne on 5) the window for a JC grab would be frames 1-4.

So in a sense...they're both exactly the same speed, but holding shield and pressing A is more reliable.

Thanks for clearing that up, what do you think about CCing then just letting go of down and grabbing? Can that technically be done faster? Just curious about that one.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Thanks for clearing that up, what do you think about CCing then just letting go of down and grabbing? Can that technically be done faster? Just curious about that one.

I think what dark sonic was saying is that you hit jump and there is 1-4frames that you can activate your grab.

So if you jc and grab on the 1st frame it activates on the next frame and you should be grabbing in 2 frames.

After a CC and then releasing down to stand grab I believe you dont waste the single frame on starting the jump animation.

So I technically, I think that its 1 frame faster.

 

[metashinryu]

for real, how the hell can that do a difference on the heat of a battle? just hear your instincts...

 

[DtJ Jungle]

you can tell when you dont get the grab and get shined or something instead.