Mewtwo Patch (Version 1.0.6[7]) Thread [Updated: May 1st]

[Nimyu]

@Luigi player Are you positive that Luigis Down B kills at a much higher percentage?

I looked over this myself, and I have no idea, it would need reconfirmation from someone else. However I've used Luigi a decent amount, down b has felt a little weaker, please get confirmation though, it might just be placebo.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Wario, Fox, Falcon, Pikachu and Jigglypuff are unchanged. I wanna say Ike is unchanged too but I'm not 100% sure on him.

 

[FullMoon]

(Directly from Reddit)

• fair and uair buffed (need %'s) (UNCONFIRMED)
• dair much faster CONFIRMED
• fair deals same damage as v.0.5 CONFIRMED

All of these are wrong. Greninja was untouched other than making Up-Smash's second hit connect properly instead of the second hit sometimes missing.

 

[Thinkaman]

Deconfirming any Greninja dair changes.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

As far as the Greninja U-Smash change listed, where it goes from the first hit to the second quicker, can the sweetspot hit a standing opponent on a Battlefield platform now? Previously you would get the love tap of the first hit and they would move away from the second hit.

 

[Thinkaman]

deconfirming any supposed changes to rest

 

[~ Gheb ~]

All of these are wrong. Greninja was untouched other than making Up-Smash's second hit connect properly instead of the second hit sometimes missing.

This seems to be more of a universal fix than a character specific one. Multi-hit moves connect more reliably now - this includes Robin's jab, TL dsmash and Zelda's dsmash at the very least but I wouldn't be surprised if there were more such changes.

 

[Thinkaman]

confirming link up-b damage buff 12% -> 14% uncharged, 19% -> 22% charged

deconfirming link throw KB changes

 

[DunnoBro]

Duck Hunt's damage/knockback is unchanged from nov 2014

There may be an alteration in the size/angle of the hitboxes of his reticule based moves(data dumps from previous 3ds updates suggest the smashes were edited somehow), but they don't seem major.

Smashes still whiff at point blank, people slide out, they don't linger at all, and he can't hit inside him still. So they're probably just "different" at best and serve no real purpose.

Will look into how it interacts with the can later.

 

[Quickhero]

So yeah, the only change we can find is that DB is more consistent and now the entire thing against most of the cast much more frequently and thus helps Marth's combo game a lot. Only claimed change that hasn't been proven wrong so far but even if this is the only change that's fine by me! :D

 

[haxfactory]

If anyone could double check Fox's jab lock I would appreciate it. It feels like people can DI out of it now. I have done some testing and haven't been able to keep people in beyond 5 loops of the combo and a few others have had the same problem but I would like to eliminate the potential for input error.

 

[Flamecircle]

at some point I think we should just wait for dantarion, our lord and savior

 

[Teshie U]

As far as the Greninja U-Smash change listed, where it goes from the first hit to the second quicker, can the sweetspot hit a standing opponent on a Battlefield platform now? Previously you would get the love tap of the first hit and they would move away from the second hit.

still rarely works. i managed to get it chain once at 0 and same lame effect otherwise.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

If anyone could double check Fox's jab lock I would appreciate it. It feels like people can DI out of it now. I have done some testing and haven't been able to keep people in beyond 5 loops of the combo and a few others have had the same problem but I would like to eliminate the potential for input error.

Fox hasn't been changed but I've heard claims that the effects of DI have been enhanced. I dunno how plausible that is but most characters could get out of Fox' jab "lock" after a few loops before the patch.

 

[Thinkaman]

deconfirming marth d-throw changes

 

[Oracle]

Tested rob's uthrow for kill percents. Wii U wasn't updated, 3ds was, and the %'s are from fd at neutral position on 3 different characters (mario/puff/bowser)
3ds (1.06)
Mario-162
Puff- 131
Bowser- 180


Wii u {1.02}
Mario- 135
Puff- 107
Bowser- 149

Looks like the growth is very similar, only thing thats changed is the base KB. Roughly 30% more for the kill on about every character. An interesting side effect of this is Uthrow now sets up for combos at low%. Now you can get followups besides upair!

 

[Raziek]

(Directly from Reddit)

• Levin Sword Durability Indicator Glitch FIXED (Did not Flash for Female in previous Wii U versions) CONFIRMED
• Wind jab is faster, Hits connect significantly more consistently, including the final hit. CONFIRMED
• Books no longer disappear (despite being picked up) if they touch a platform (Battlefield Buff) CONFIRMED
• back throw nerfed from ~12% to 11% CONFIRMED
• All nonthrow damage values are identical. Dash/Walk and Airspeeds are the same CONFIRMED
• Fire, Wind, Thunder tome recovery time is the same. CONFIRMED

Someone copy/pasted my research to Reddit I guess, but Back Throw has NOT been nerfed. Back Throw always did 11%.

Everything else is correct.

 

[Thinkaman]

So Pac-Man's grab is sped up? Some pacman mains are saying that it isn't.
Are his smashes faster?

Grab is the same

 

[InfinityCollision]

As far as the Greninja U-Smash change listed, where it goes from the first hit to the second quicker, can the sweetspot hit a standing opponent on a Battlefield platform now? Previously you would get the love tap of the first hit and they would move away from the second hit.

Mario pops out starting at 9%. Ever-so-slightly higher than when he's popping out on my 3DS, but the difference is trivial.

 

[Thinkaman]

deconfirming supposed luma d-tilt buff

 

[Steeler]

Need confirmation on these three Charizard moves. @ Thinkaman hey baby you lookin mighty helpful atm <3

Fair
For those who don't know, this move has two different hitboxes.
Fair
Frame 8- 9: 11% 45b/100g (KO@ 135%) 361° Slash
Frame 10-11: 12% 25b/80g (KO@ 174%) 34° Slash
Max Damage: 12%

I always thought it strange that the first part was the stronger kill part and did less damage. Well, it looks like the knockback for these two parts has been switched around. Pre-patch, I hit Mario with a fair from underneath, which did 11% and killed at around 125%. After patch, this was not killing at 135% and probably longer than that... but on a whim I decided to fair from above and lo and behold, that hitbox was the one that started killing at 125%. I am 99% sure this is the case, but feel free to test this out if you can. Gotta make sure.

Dthrow
It looks like this has been slightly nerfed. Yep. Charizard was too strong, guys. I killed Mario 3-4% later after the patch. Not quite sure how this will translate against DI. Will the DI be more effective than it was before? Or will the same DI only save them for 4% more or so? Need to test this. It feels like the ROB uthrow nerf, where it still kills but it's possible the rage/DI influences will make kill later than 4%. Dthrow from mid stage is looking pretty rough, because this throw is really susceptible to DI. At the edge it's probably still strong because they just can't fly all that much vertically before they hit the blast zone. Not sure if it's "rage kill lightweights at 100%" strong though. At least we aren't as dependent on the throw as ROB is on his uthrow.

Rising Cyclone
Uhhh, yeah. This appears to kill even earlier now. I was getting KOs about 3-5% earlier than before. The weird thing is that it also did feel like it was linking differently and more reliably. I trained myself to roll into the ledge in front of Mario, up B, and only hold up, no horizontal input. Before the patch, Mario was flying out before the last hit occasionally, like 20% of the time. After the patch, he never fell out when I hit him this way. It looked like Mario was deeper inside me at the beginning of the move, thus limiting how far the intermediate hits would launch him. If I had to guess, the very first hitbox got weaker knockback. It's still *** at linking if you aren't horizontally level with them and try to hit them mid way through the move.

I was sleep deprived at the time I did this, someone else please deconfirm

 

[Road Death Wheel]

since thinkaman is so active my claim is that the first hit of samus zair is no 1.5% intead of 1

two zairs where both hit is 9% instead of 8%

 

[DavemanCozy]

Fox hasn't been changed but I've heard claims that the effects of DI have been enhanced. I dunno how plausible that is but most characters could get out of Fox' jab "lock" after a few loops before the patch.

The only character I've tested Fox's jab lock on is with Shulk, one of the victims who was trapped forever in Fox's barrage. I was able to DI away from him after being trapped and eventually jump to escape after about ~5 sets of jabs, more at low %. The following first jab would miss since Shulk was a tad too far.

The timing for the jab lock is seemingly unchanged (20 frames between second jab and following first jab).

 

[Thinkaman]

deconfirming supposed damage changes to shulk fair, dair, and back slash

 

[Runic_SSB]

Deconfirming my own findings on Doc. I did not label the console I was using in my notes so I accidentally compared my 3DS notes to the new Wii U version, and got drastically varied results because of it. I just found the other set of notes I had, and the kill percents for everything but Fair were (almost) identical to the ones I got in the new Wii U version (almost because I rounded to 5 last time). Sorry for wasting your time.

 

[Macchiato]

@ Thinkaman Did Zelda's phantom get less laggy?

 

[BJN39]

THREE changes to Zelda's Phantom Slash. I've been using two copies (Obviously one old, one new.) side-by-side, and tested it all quite thoroughly.

Phantom Slash

[+] The duration that the phantom is out as a meat shield post-slash has been increased by about 1/4 of a second. The increase appears to be entirely static throughout charge, AKA, it's a 1/4 second Phantom body shield duration increase at ALL charge levels. I did the two versions in slow-mo, side-by-side at the exact same 'time' (With a range of error of maybe 2 frames at most. I used 1/4 speed L press to synch them up.) and on the 1.0.5 copy, the Phantom clearly disappears first, no mis-timing involved. It's a pretty insignificant change overall.

[+] The release animation might have an endlag decrease of no more than 4 frames. Since someone had mentioned doing their own comparison and getting this result, I went hard at this one to make EXACTLY sure nothing was up. The result was that for sure you could cancel the animation at a visual time different than in 1.0.5, Zelda's pose was ever so slightly different. The maximum difference I could see is 4 frames. The difference is annoyingly small, but I believe it's truly there.

[-] If your Phantom is destroyed, it takes roughly 3 seconds longer before you're allowed to spawn another. Super easy to see tbh, I'm surprised we [zeldas testing] initially missed it. The time increase is around 3.5 seconds.

 

[FullMoon]

As far as the Greninja U-Smash change listed, where it goes from the first hit to the second quicker, can the sweetspot hit a standing opponent on a Battlefield platform now? Previously you would get the love tap of the first hit and they would move away from the second hit.

Some characters can't get hit at all, some only work at pretty much 0%. Though it works on Bowser twice before he pops out.

Unfortunately Greninja still has to deal with platforms getting in the way of Up-Smash, though that's one issue it's possible to get around and has been around since ever.

 

[Overswarm]

thinka, did you confirm bowser changes

specifically the less u-throw endlag

http://smashboards.com/threads/bowser-1-06-changes.399119/#post-18994556

 

[haxfactory]

Fox hasn't been changed but I've heard claims that the effects of DI have been enhanced. I dunno how plausible that is but most characters could get out of Fox' jab "lock" after a few loops before the patch.

I actually have a slightly different theory. If multi hit moves were tuned as some kind of global change it is possible it has an effect on the knock back of the jab lock.

I put a decent amount of time into the jab lock in the past week and a half so I want to say it isn't placebo.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The only character I've tested Fox's jab lock on is with Shulk, one of the victims who was trapped forever in Fox's barrage. I was able to DI away from him after being trapped and eventually jump to escape after about ~5 sets of jabs, more at low %. The following first jab would miss since Shulk was a tad too far.

That's interesting. Without DI included it works 100% the same way it used to before the patch ... it's possible that the DI mechanics were changed because Jab is exactly the same as it has always been. Things like jab -> jab -> usmash / grab work on the same characters in the same way it has always done when no DI was included. The knockback of jab is unchanged too.

 

[InfinityCollision]

I thought 3DS and Wii U had different blast zones from both left and right and top?

Pretty sure it wouldn't make that much difference. Palutena's usmash kills just 6% sooner on Wii U.

since thinkaman is so active my claim is that the first hit of samus zair is no 1.5% intead of 1

two zairs where both hit is 9% instead of 8%

It's always been 1.5%. I broke down tether damage for all four characters a while back in the impressions thread.

I've been playing with Shulk since the 3DS came out so I know for sure he got nurfed.

Also, say it with me: "nerf".

Also also: deconfirmed, Vision is unchanged. Neither the initial nor decayed durations have changed.

 

[RoachCake]

I'm going to say this again since I was clearly ignored earlier, Samus' F-tilt has been changed, it's even a kill move now.

Proof.
https://gfycat.com/YellowFarflungBeetle

Shoutouts to @DungeonMaster for discovering that it killed first!

 

[InfinityCollision]

^We know. One of the first findings for this patch.

I'm going to say this again since I was clearly ignored earlier, Samus' F-tilt has been changed, it's even a kill move now.

Proof.
https://gfycat.com/YellowFarflungBeetle

Shoutouts to @DungeonMaster for discovering that it killed first!

That's come up in multiple posts and has already been verified. Just because it's not in the OP yet doesn't mean you were ignored.

 

[Ffamran]

Kind of pointless even if it's a placebo, but some guys at the Falco boards have said Falco's run animation is faster. Aside for Palutena's special effects changes, anyone else have other visual changes?

 

[Thinkaman]

Need confirmation on these three Charizard moves. @ Thinkaman hey baby you lookin mighty helpful atm <3

Fair
For those who don't know, this move has two different hitboxes.
Fair
Frame 8- 9: 11% 45b/100g (KO@ 135%) 361° Slash
Frame 10-11: 12% 25b/80g (KO@ 174%) 34° Slash
Max Damage: 12%

I always thought it strange that the first part was the stronger kill part and did less damage. Well, it looks like the knockback for these two parts has been switched around. Pre-patch, I hit Mario with a fair from underneath, which did 11% and killed at around 125%. After patch, this was not killing at 135% and probably longer than that... but on a whim I decided to fair from above and lo and behold, that hitbox was the one that started killing at 125%. I am 99% sure this is the case, but feel free to test this out if you can. Gotta make sure.

Dthrow
It looks like this has been slightly nerfed. Yep. Charizard was too strong, guys. I killed Mario 3-4% later after the patch. Not quite sure how this will translate against DI. Will the DI be more effective than it was before? Or will the same DI only save them for 4% more or so? Need to test this. It feels like the ROB uthrow nerf, where it still kills but it's possible the rage/DI influences will make kill later than 4%. Dthrow from mid stage is looking pretty rough, because this throw is really susceptible to DI. At the edge it's probably still strong because they just can't fly all that much vertically before they hit the blast zone. Not sure if it's "rage kill lightweights at 100%" strong though. At least we aren't as dependent on the throw as ROB is on his uthrow.

Rising Cyclone
Uhhh, yeah. This appears to kill even earlier now. I was getting KOs about 3-5% earlier than before. The weird thing is that it also did feel like it was linking differently and more reliably. I trained myself to roll into the ledge in front of Mario, up B, and only hold up, no horizontal input. Before the patch, Mario was flying out before the last hit occasionally, like 20% of the time. After the patch, he never fell out when I hit him this way. It looked like Mario was deeper inside me at the beginning of the move, thus limiting how far the intermediate hits would launch him. If I had to guess, the very first hitbox got weaker knockback. It's still *** at linking if you aren't horizontally level with them and try to hit them mid way through the move.

I was sleep deprived at the time I did this, someone else please deconfirm

I am not seeing any changes on d-throw or rising cyclone, but you appear to be right about fair.

I won't be able to check until maybe an hour, but @Gamegenie222 said Falco's D-throw does 5% now instead of 6%. Yay... Nerf the "bad" character.

Always was 5%. Deconfirmed.

since thinkaman is so active my claim is that the first hit of samus zair is no 1.5% intead of 1

two zairs where both hit is 9% instead of 8%

Always did this much.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

It seems like "move X is easier to DI out of" is a somewhat common claim in this thread. Maybe the effects of DI have been incresaed rather than moves have been made easier to get out of? Perhaps worth investigating?

 

[JayWon]

Nerf.

Pikachu's Ledgegrab time increased by 12 Frames. This has been tested and confirmed. Source: Reddit and Pikachu forum

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Oh, yeah--A rather big change I'm just now remembering:

As far as I can tell, Little Mac's KO Punch always seems to do the lunge forward now. Previously you had to buffer it from a previous animation while in the air (and it would sometimes not do it on the ground; not sure why),but now you do it all the time, no telegraphed move required beforehand.

Have you ever used KO Punch and thought, "Why didn't I lunge forward?" There was likely something with the previous action messing it up, and I think that doesn't happen anymore.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

It's always been 1.5%. I broke down tether damage for all four characters a while back in the impressions thread.

Wow i feel dumb that went over my head. i lab that chick left and right. Oh well.