MetaKnight Infinite Dimensional Cape - hope you enjoy

[Saltix]

Ok, so sonic CAN'T go super sonic whenever he wants?
>__>

 

[Pierce7d]

This post shows to me that all yyou are doing isjumping on a bandwagon and riding it into the ground.

What was stopping everyone from playing Snake a week ago?
What was stopping people from just doing that?

nothing, they very well could have. This does nothing but give MK a good approach. MK is one of the hardest characters for Pit because you want to keep him away at all times, spam him, and then get a quick kill. This technique will make that matchup even harder, but not impossible. You would have to be one ******** *** hole to think that. The only way this is going to win is if you fight "fair" for a stock, get ahead, and then stall out the timer. And, if you do that, you should be kicked from the tournament for stalling. Problem solved. The End.

If people cry because they can't get around one stupid tactic, then they don't deserve to pay the money to play.

I'm not jumping on the Bandwagon. I'm trying to stop the Bandwagon from coming into existence, because rest assured, if this technique is approved for tourney play, a very large bandwagon will spawn. Whether or not I then hop on, try and counter it (unlikely, that's a waste of money) or ditch competitive Brawl . . . I haven't decided yet, but that's aside from the issue entirely.

You are right that everyone could play Top Tier, but it's not like Top Tier is unbeatable. Snake in Brawl < Fox in Melee, and even then people could compete with Fox. Snake has several viable counter-picks.

Who will be able to contest a MK that can do this? Since we've all seemed to settle down on the stalling issue, which is enough to get it banned by itself, now we're debating whether or not to enable a god-tier character in the game. I vote no, lol. You're basically saying that you don't think this technique is broken. I'm explaining to you how it is. You say that edges and platforms counteract this, and I counter by saying how that's not safe in the first place, still makes MK far too broken (since I think Link is the ONLY character in the game that outproritizes MK from above, and the edge is never safe). What have you to say to that? How is it not broken?

TECHNIQUE UPDATE:


The top ledge of battlefield is outside of where you can hit with this technique from the stage ground. DIing correctly with any lower distance will result in you being able to hit with the strike.

So, no, the vast majority of platforms are NOT safe.

I've been saying this for a while. Thank you very much for actually confirming it. Now I can say it irrefutably. Furthermore, let's not forget how epically fast MK can move with this. He can always edgehog you FROM THIS TECH, after you ledgehop/auto fall off the edge/before you reach the edge, and that's on top of now being in the awesome position of Edgeguarding. Furthermore, MK can do this from the edge.

Ok, so sonic CAN'T go super sonic whenever he wants?
>__>

Correct, I was using it merely as an example. I apologize for any confusion.

 

[Magus420]

I agree with this guy. Most other stages have platforms to move on to. So if MK starts D.I.C.King, all you have to do is leave the present platform. Only thing he can do then is stall (since he can't move up platforms) and thats banned.

Any problems?

If he can simply fly to the other side and do the low lag release to avoid whatever people would consider 'stalling' with it under a partial ban, then a problem would be how would one punish it unless their character's name happens to be ROB or something? Like I also mentioned, if down in percent they would generally need to go after him, while he could just wait and go into the move to try to hit them whenever they try to do so. This wouldn't really be stalling either as it'd just be playing defensively since it's also a very good means of attacking and they aren't sitting in the move and just use it when approached.

No one will ever take damage from this as all they have to do is grab the ledge. It is the perfect approach if there are no ledge and platforms, yeah; just stall until they do something that lags then hit them.

Once they grab the ledge, MK can't hit them. It's a stall move, and that's about it >_>

Again, how is grabbing a ledge helpful in gaining ground on him? I'm not saying it can't be avoided. Yeah, they won't take damage from it if they camp the ledge the entire time, but if they are losing by percent that's not very helpful if they can't reach him sitting at the other end while being on the edge.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Again, how is grabbing a ledge helpful in gaining ground on him? I'm not saying it can't be avoided. Yeah, they won't take damage from it if they camp the ledge the entire time, but if they are losing by percent that's not very helpful if they can't reach him sitting at the other end while being on the edge.

You forgot one thing, the ledge is not safe... at all.

So, you exchange one extremely disadvantaged position for a slightly less disadvantaged one... yeah, great...

 

[Magus420]

Can they not ledge drop then sweetspot their DJ?

 

[Pierce7d]

You forgot one thing, the ledge is not safe... at all.

So, you exchange one extremely disadvantaged position for a slightly less disadvantaged one... yeah, great...

And let's not forget that MK can re-initiate the extremely disadvantaged position at will, as soon as you forsake the slightly less disadvantaged one.

Can they not ledge drop then sweetspot their DJ?

You know what, I'll run with this. Sure you can. Now whose stalling, me or you?

 

[SketchHurricane]

I'll apologize for that obvious mistake when I in my haste skimmed and had to repeat myself for the umpteenth time (not to you, to others in general), so I must've misread your post (a missed "not" could easily create a misunderstanding such as this).

That fact that you (and others) are actually calling it D.I.C.K.ing now is apology enough

Can't wait to see if this is utilized at FAST1 or not. I want to see if it holds up in actual tourney application. Are there any other major tourneys coming up? If not, FAST1 will be the first true bench mark for how this effects things.

 

[Pierce7d]

That fact that you (and others) are actually calling it D.I.C.K.ing now is apology enough

Can't wait to see if this is utilized at FAST1 or not. I want to see if it holds up in actual tourney application. Are there any other major tourneys coming up? If not, FAST1 will be the first true bench mark for how this effects things.

The T.O. of Fast1 has confirmed the allowance of this technique at that tourney. I suggest if you're going you master it quick. Good thing I'm not.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Can they not ledge drop then sweetspot their DJ?

Dtilt... it goes under the platform.

I'm almost positive it prevents doing that indefinitely.


If you stay past invulnerability frames, he can knock you off with dtilt, plus I believe there are faster methods of grabbing the edge from the stage then ledgedrop to sweetspot DJ.

That fact that you (and others) are actually calling it D.I.C.K.ing now is apology enough

Can't wait to see if this is utilized at FAST1 or not. I want to see if it holds up in actual tourney application. Are there any other major tourneys coming up? If not, FAST1 will be the first true bench mark for how this effects things.

It may or may not be too soon, we'll see.

 

[Overswarm]

You know what, I'll run with this. Sure you can. Now whose stalling, me or you?

It's not stalling to continually jump to the ledge.

Again, how is grabbing a ledge helpful in gaining ground on him? I'm not saying it can't be avoided. Yeah, they won't take damage from it if they camp the ledge the entire time, but if they are losing by percent that's not very helpful if they can't reach him sitting at the other end while being on the edge.

It's not useful in gaining ground at all. My point is that Meta's down+b trick prevents the match from being played and thus is a stall. Opponents have two options: get hit, or sit on a ledge or platform until Meta stops. This does not guarantee he will just start again when they get off. It's just not a move that makes for a viable approach unless you're just waiting for your opponent to allow you to hit them.

 

[Pierce7d]

Dtilt... it goes under the platform.

I'm almost positive it prevents doing that indefinitely.


If you stay past invulnerability frames, he can knock you off with dtilt, plus I believe there are faster methods of grabbing the edge then ledgedrop to sweetspot DJ.

Faster methods such as, oh . . . . say, I dunno. Maybe, EDGECANCELLING YOUR INFINITE DIMENSION CAPE?

It's not stalling to continually jump to the ledge.

How, pray tell, is that not stalling. If fall back and Dolphin Slash to ledge repeatedly over an extended period of time, this is not stalling? I'm doing it with the objective of wasting time until my opponent does something that is favorable for me. Isn't that part of what stalling is?

 

[Yuna]

It's not stalling to continually jump to the ledge.

It's not useful in gaining ground at all. My point is that Meta's down+b trick prevents the match from being played and thus is a stall. Opponents have two options: get hit, or sit on a ledge or platform until Meta stops. This does not guarantee he will just start again when they get off. It's just not a move that makes for a viable approach unless you're just waiting for your opponent to allow you to hit them.

Since when does everyone have a teleport that automatically sweetspots the ledge, anyway? It's not like you can run and grab the edge every single time Meta-Knight uses the cape, especially since he doesn't travel at Bowser-speed.

 

[adumbrodeus]

It's not useful in gaining ground at all. My point is that Meta's down+b trick prevents the match from being played and thus is a stall. Opponents have two options: get hit, or sit on a ledge or platform until Meta stops. This does not guarantee he will just start again when they get off. It's just not a move that makes for a viable approach unless you're just waiting for your opponent to allow you to hit them.

Depending on the stage and range between the characters, that may or may not be viable.

Both situations put MK at an advantage however, so even if this only amounted to "you have to either take the ledge or get above mk", it's a massive limiter to the opponent's options.

So yeah, it's insanely useful even when just used to force your opponent into a position.

 

[Pierce7d]

So, now we're arguing that it's evadable by seeking high ground or a ledge. Once again I must ask: if I had a technique that automatically pushes you to high-ground or ledge, or you automatically take damage (unless I somehow whiff the technique) should that technique not be banned? That breaks everything we previously knew and loved about Smash, and is far too broken to be allowed.

 

[Overswarm]

How, pray tell, is that not stalling. If fall back and Dolphin Slash to ledge repeatedly over an extended period of time, this is not stalling? I'm doing it with the objective of wasting time until my opponent does something that is favorable for me. Isn't that part of what stalling is?

Because your opponent can do something about it. They can just grab the ledge to stop you from doing so. You can't just say "you're stalling and I don't want to do something to stop you so you come to me".

 

[Magus420]

How, pray tell, is that not stalling. If fall back and Dolphin Slash to ledge repeatedly over an extended period of time, this is not stalling? I'm doing it with the objective of wasting time until my opponent does something that is favorable for me. Isn't that part of what stalling is?

The difference is that you can do something about it. In this case you can try to edgehog.

EDIT: Too slow, lol.

 

[Pierce7d]

Alright, I'll run with this. So now, we enter a cycle of something that is not stalling, but camping? You DJ ledge cancel rinse and repeat, I go to the opposite side of the stage and stand there. I'm not stalling, because you can do something about it (get up and come to me). However, when you get ALMOST close enough, I use this tech because it's obviously my best and safest approach (not stalling with it deliberately at all). Your only option is to retreat back to the edge, so rather than even holding the cape for a prolonged period of time, I go back to the other end of the stage (possibly even teleporting there with this technique since it's my safest method of travel). If you do not conform to this cycle, I will hit you with my DownB over and over, which is an even worse option, rinse and repeat. If you're R.O.B. or Falco, you might get lucky with a laser, or Pit possibly an arrow, but that's all very unlikely.

Please tell me this deserves a ban.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Unless I am mistaken, both of the people above you believe it should be banned.

 

[Pierce7d]

Unless I am mistaken, both of the people above you believe it should be banned.

I know. I am simply using the situations they've provided to provide further argument that this NEEDS to be banned.

 

[Affinity]

Just ban this. MK can win without it.

 

[Dojo]

Lolz seriously, this has escalated so far in less than 2 days.
MK doesn't need this tech. He's already overpowered.

 

[SketchHurricane]

This thread has spawned something like 1 page per hour since its conception. Not much more needs to be said about this besides "we shall see."

 

[FS Fantom]

Just caught wind of this...read the first page/OP.

When you get to the end of the stage, do you just fall off? Also, does the movement left or right work if you hold straight down on the analog?

 

[Pierce7d]

Just caught wind of this...read the first page/OP.

When you get to the end of the stage, do you just fall off? Also, does the movement left or right work if you hold straight down on the analog?

I believe that you can move left in right by tilting the joystick or the cstick (I used the joystick when I tested it and went back and forth Final Dest a few times, though I used Wiimote Nunchuk)

If you go past the end of the stage you will fall and die, but if you are good at knowing where you are, you can ledge cancel from this tech.

 

[Scissors Sir]

This should be left as a cool trick to pull out in friendlies or at home when you're bored

The fact that it's been entertained as useable this long just shows what some people are willing try to still lose to their favorite smashers...

**waits for someone to say "but if this technique is kept they can't hit you" so I can burst into laughter**

 

[Eaode]

I had a LOT of trouble with this at first, but if you use L for special and use your index and middle fingers to slam your c-stick it's actually really easy to keep it going fairly long.

Not that ease of use is a big factor, but this needs to be banned. Fun, but broken.

 

[FS Fantom]

I believe that you can move left in right by tilting the joystick or the cstick (I used the joystick when I tested it and went back and forth Final Dest a few times, though I used Wiimote Nunchuk)

If you go past the end of the stage you will fall and die, but if you are good at knowing where you are, you can ledge cancel from this tech.

So if you hold down and slightly right or left on the analog and mash cstick up (why is it specifically c-stick up, anyway?), then you can move that direction?

 

[Eaode]

So if you hold down and slightly right or left on the analog and mash cstick up (why is it specifically c-stick up, anyway?), then you can move that direction?

b/c the c-stick gives a very short burst of DI in the direction you press it, used to quickly use smash attacks

 

[Buddahmonk]

thats a pretty crazy trick

 

[PsychoKnight]

**Brawl Buddy fav. is MetaKnight, and knows he is aware of this trick**

oh crap =/

 

[MisterMoo]

I think this should just be banned... I've been playing MK for a few months now, and this is something MK players don't need....

It's broken, and its def not fair to go "Invincible" for any amount of time "cept for spot dodge, re-spawn, you get the point...".

 

[Pierce7d]

So if you hold down and slightly right or left on the analog and mash cstick up (why is it specifically c-stick up, anyway?), then you can move that direction?

b/c the c-stick gives a very short burst of DI in the direction you press it, used to quickly use smash attacks

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up, although we've also since discovered that there is a timing to hitting the C-stick up, and mashing senselessly will not produce the trick for long. We've also discovered that this is most easily performed with Nunchuck controller

 

[Yuna]

Yeah, that pretty much sums it up, although we've also since discovered that there is a timing to hitting the C-stick up, and mashing senselessly will not produce the trick for long. We've also discovered that this is most easily performed with Nunchuck controller

No one has yet to answer my question:
Does it automatically mess up when you mistime it? Or will it still go on if you immediatelly hit up again with the correct timing?

Like this:
* Hitting up takes 5 frames (let's assume this).
* The timing is 20 frames inbetween each hit (let's assume this)

Example 1:
Up -> 20 frames -> Up -> 20 frames -> Up -> 10 Frames -> Up

It stops after the botched followed up to the 3rd up. But what if I do this:

Up -> 20 frames -> Up -> 20 frames -> Up -> 10 frames -> Up (5 frames) -> 5 frames -> Up

Will it still fail? I still managed to (let's assume I did) input the command after the botched attempt, this time with the correct timing.

 

[Demon-oni]

It's really hard, don't know why. Guess just takes some practice.

 

[Pierce7d]

No one has yet to answer my question:
Does it automatically mess up when you mistime it? Or will it still go on if you immediatelly hit up again with the correct timing?

Like this:
* Hitting up takes 5 frames (let's assume this).
* The timing is 20 frames inbetween each hit (let's assume this)

Example 1:
Up -> 20 frames -> Up -> 20 frames -> Up -> 10 Frames -> Up

It stops after the botched followed up to the 3rd up. But what if I do this:

Up -> 20 frames -> Up -> 20 frames -> Up -> 10 frames -> Up (5 frames) -> 5 frames -> Up

Will it still fail? I still managed to (let's assume I did) input the command after the botched attempt, this time with the correct timing.

I'm not sure, nor do I have frame perfect eyes like M2k, nor do I have AR, so I regretfully cannot answer your question, though since I've not been attempting to perfectly time this technique and have achieved decent results by spamming, I'm going to say it won't fail.

In other words, if you spam like a madman and hit the required timing, it should still work.

 

[Omni]

Last time I checked, infinite standing chaingrab with DDD hasn't been banned and has the potential to stall the match.

 

[xXZeroXx]

So, making it clear. Is it banned or not? I mean, one thread of people discussing it won't take this to an end. Has it been discussed in the backroom or something?

 

[MisterMoo]

@ Zero, I believe that some BRoomers have said they are discussing it as we type =O

 

[PK Hexagon]

Last time I checked, infinite standing chaingrab with DDD hasn't been banned and has the potential to stall the match.

Infinite standing chaingrab with DDD is against 5 or so characters (not to mention D3 can easily kill any of those 5 before its considered stalling). Name me a character in this game that this tech doesn't work on.

 

[Yuna]

Last time I checked, infinite standing chaingrab with DDD hasn't been banned and has the potential to stall the match.

Last time I checked, I'd already addresed that point. You can, with the naked eye, tell when someone is using it to stall since they're chainthrowing them past the threshhold beyond which they have to KO their opponent.

With this, you cannot (with the naked eye).