GodotAA
Smash Ace
Name me a character in this game that this tech doesn't work on.
metaknight...
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Name me a character in this game that this tech doesn't work on.
"If a character/technique/strategy is so good it makes the only viable character in the game that same character or 1-2 characters who can stand up to said characters (as in "not get horribly destroyed"), it gets banned." (Paraphrasal)metaknight...
Yeah thats correct.... u have to smash on it repeatedlySo are you saying that you have to keep smashing the c-stick upwards as fast as you can after you get yourself invisible? O_O
There is a timing to it thats why u cant keep it as longI don't feel a timing for it. I just spam the Cstick as fast as I can =\
That's why you use both thumbs/arms to flick the c-stick so you only need to move each thumb at half the normal speed and is far less tiring.K, so...I changed my controller settings so that L was set to special. It makes doing this a lot easier, activating down B with your left hand and strumming the c stick with your thumb. My record's 8 seconds.
But I don't think it's physically possible to do it for 8 minutes. The lactic acid build up in your thumb and arm will slow down your movements.
You're silly.Last time I checked, I'd already addresed that point. You can, with the naked eye, tell when someone is using it to stall since they're chainthrowing them past the threshhold beyond which they have to KO their opponent.
With this, you cannot (with the naked eye).
this post ****ing destroyed meMastering this technique will definitely satisfy your girlfriend IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.
Uh, generally there is a set limit determined by the TO on whether or not continue to infinitely grab and jab exceeds threshold of reasonableness. This doesn't require any type of heavy debate, only the TOs call on the first stock, and doesn't require extensive consequences. TO says you've gone too far, KO the foe, and then he sets a limit on it for the next stock. This can be used at anytime, and for other subjective purposes.You're silly.
The naked eye can see that only one character is on the screen. Not to mention, people can look, see, and hear when anyone is slamming their c-stick up in one direction for long periods of time.
Beyond the threshold of KO'ing your opponent? What measures this threshold? Is there a certain % for each character? Is it stage dependent? Trust me; it's not common sense. I'd feel safer cg'ing someone to 300% before throwing them while others may feel 150% - 200% is fine.
Last time I checked, pausing a match isn't illegal. If a person feels that they are being stalled, couldn't they pause and request a spectator?
ROFL!!! This is really awesome!Mastering this technique will definitely satisfy your girlfriend IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.
Yeah, other than having a prosthetic arm. This tech causes so much stress on your arm it isn't funny. No one could keep this going for a minute, not even straight, without some special controller (BANNED). Then you can punish them. Also, no pre-existing condition. Some what true. To use it, not so much. To use it with the pop attack, yeah there is. It requires you to be on the same ground as them. So any place other than Final D is safe from the pop attack. If your worried about them stalling the match for time out, don't worry, their arm will let out and you can punish with a smash then, it won't take too long. And if you gonna say something to the extent that Final D is an instant win for meta-knight, then the same goes for D3 and Delfino for counter picks.So over the past 2 days I've been reading this read, I've commented once and been promptly ignored, This move is ridiculous. Anything I could say, and would have, has been mentioned before so basically I'm here to offer one tiny nugget of insight.
Also this technique requires no pre-existing condition.
Edit: i claim this second page in the name of the banhammer.
I'm not even going to respond to this, because I've already addressed EVERY SINGLE ONE of these points.o.k., I'm getting sick of this kind of talk. Let's think logically for a second here. I'm going to pinpoint every bad spot of this tech, right now. First of all, it's actually hard to do. No noob at a tourney will win because of this because he probably won't have the reflexes. You need to be good to use it, and even better not to use it wrong. 2. Even if you can do it, there's no possible way to keep it going forever, possibly not even very long, without customizing your controller someway, and I'm pretty sure that's banned, right? 3. This tech is only really good stage situational. Final is the only great stage for this tech. Any stage with a platform you can hop on and punish when they're arm lets out. 4. It's hard to be accurate with it. Sure, you can't see him, but neither can he, so he sometimes has to approximate where he's gonna pop. A good mk won't kill himself off the edge, but if he pops to close or the pop attack misses, he's punished by a smash. 5. There's no way he can edge hog with this in a match, it's too risky and easy to over shoot with the extended teleport. I'll admit, this is a good tech. It makes his down-b better to use, and can help him indefinately, but let's face it people, it's no ice climber's chain throw. It won't upset the match.
^^ What he said.I'm not even going to respond to this, because I've already addressed EVERY SINGLE ONE of these points.
Your lack of confidence in the accuracy and skill of good competitors is completely inaccurate and foolish, and does not in any way reflect the metagame, and difficultly of performance does not at all make a technique less banable. If it's not impossible to be mastered by a human, it will be.
Yes, but overswarm is suggesting that it only warrants banning as a stall, which means that if somehow we can decouple the infinite stall from it, it would still be a legal approach.Unless I am mistaken, both of the people above you believe it should be banned.
Go ahead...o.k., I'm getting sick of this kind of talk. Let's think logically for a second here. I'm going to pinpoint every bad spot of this tech, right now.
Nobody cares, we're not particularly worried about noobs taking top level competitions. We're worried about a semblance of balance in top level competitive play.First of all, it's actually hard to do. No noob at a tourney will win because of this because he probably won't have the reflexes. You need to be good to use it, and even better not to use it wrong.
If it took me a day to do it for a minute, I'm sure it won't take long for myself or others to get it up to 8 minutes. And it doesn't need to be held for more then 15 seconds to create an impossible guessing game.2. Even if you can do it, there's no possible way to keep it going forever, possibly not even very long, without customizing your controller someway, and I'm pretty sure that's banned, right?
Lol... no. Almost every platform in the game is within this tech's sphere of influence. That also means it's quite possible to use this tech to platform jump.3. This tech is only really good stage situational. Final is the only great stage for this tech. Any stage with a platform you can hop on and punish when they're arm lets out.
Given enough practice, people will learn, the camera moves with you so, it's relatively easy to keep in mind. All you really have to do is keep in mind how much you've tilted the controller and for how long. I'm already accurate to the point where I can hit a dashing opponent almost every time, except sonic (so far).4. It's hard to be accurate with it. Sure, you can't see him, but neither can he, so he sometimes has to approximate where he's gonna pop. A good mk won't kill himself off the edge, but if he pops to close or the pop attack misses, he's punished by a smash.
....5. There's no way he can edge hog with this in a match, it's too risky and easy to over shoot with the extended teleport. I'll admit, this is a good tech. It makes his down-b better to use, and can help him indefinately, but let's face it people, it's no ice climber's chain throw. It won't upset the match.
*bolding addedYeah, other than having a prosthetic arm. This tech causes so much stress on your arm it isn't funny. No one could keep this going for a minute, not even straight, without some special controller (BANNED). Then you can punish them. Also, no pre-existing condition. Some what true. To use it, not so much. To use it with the pop attack, yeah there is. It requires you to be on the same ground as them. So any place other than Final D is safe from the pop attack. If your worried about them stalling the match for time out, don't worry, their arm will let out and you can punish with a smash then, it won't take too long. And if you gonna say something to the extent that Final D is an instant win for meta-knight, then the same goes for D3 and Delfino for counter picks.
As was pointed out before, that IN NO WAY deals with the issue of it being a perfectly viable approach that, no matter what your counter-move you have a better chance of winning the lottery then beating it, because you have to predict the attack, and if you predict wrong, you get punished.tell you what mookie? We'll let this be banned, BUT, you first have to put a a video of you doing this for 7 minutes straight. Yeah...that's not gonna happen, your arm would explode before then. It's not like this tech doesn't have problems too, and if you thinks that's all, i've got a few more if you want to hear them.
Not... really, I've held it for a minute with only minute discomfort.2. Yes, there is a timing, but it's still fast. Still fast enough to make your arm crap with a minute or two
Off topic Re: I meant custom controller, which, yeah it is banned.
You seem to be missing something... you have to predict the attack, because the attack frames come out as soon as he appears and there are no prior indications. And since he's already in warp, it's instant.3. If you don't think your safe on Lylat, Yoshi's, and Smash, then you obviously don't know how to jump while on the platform. You're safe while you do that, and if he lets go while you do that, fast fall attack him, the warp animation is too slow to do it again that fast, unless your Lucario. And if it's a game of patience, you'll win. The mk user will go insane from his arm cramping before you start to lose interest of where he's gonna pop.
So, he gets to force you into the position that is best in the game for MK, and you think it's just a mindgame?4. If it's a stall, it'll be obvious and you can dq him from the match. I'm not stopping the ban on the stalling part from it. If it's a mind game, well so is most everything in brawl, depends who thinks more ahead.
How do you write all these contingencies into the rules? Because if they're not explicitly there, people have every right to use a tactic. People's judgment you say? That's subjective, we're trying for cut and dry criteria, otherwise, how can people know they violated the rules?Also, I want you ALL to think of this situation. A match is going on. A meta-knight gets a slight lead and manages to pull off a 7 minute IF cape. Now, wasn't that pretty obvious it was a stall. DQ the opponent obviously. Next one. He does a IF cape but does a pop attack on you followed by an up b for a kill. Was that stalling? No, no DQ. I think it's obvious when mk's use this to stall. IF you guys want to ban it, fine, but i think that it should be an auto DQ for anyone who uses it as the LAST move of the match, to prevent the time out bs effect. That, or obvious stalling. So here'd be how i'd rule it. Anything over 5 seconds or it being the last move of the match is and instant DQ. If he uses it repeatedly for 4 seconds each time, it's stalling, DQ. See, i made it really obvious, didn't I?
The issue was, for a time limit, you'd need a stopwatch. Because a person would be able to say, "he did it for x seconds" then somebody else could say, "he did it for y seconds", and then the guy could say "I did it for Z seconds", who is to be believed? We need a stop-watch in order to do that.But even if this is banned, how will it be enforced? If Yuna is to be believed, it's almost impossible to have someone monitoring the match. What if the MK player denies using said tactic if nobody's watching? If having an adjudicator for Ness/Lucas vs Marth matches is too much effort...then surely it's the same for Metaknight. Let's just ban the use of his down B altogether while we're at it. It's not like anybody uses it. *sarcasm*
No point to being able to travel while invincible... lol good one!personally, i dont really care anymore. He can already get around spammers and he doesn't need it to edge hog. All it really does in my opinion is pressure the opponent up which can easily be done with a good hyphen smash, so i really see no point to this move anymore.
Well, that's PART of it......besides stalling/running.
@adumbrodius
Fair enough. I'm starting to see the danger that this technique poses due to it's stalling. I mean, imagine a Metaknight who does mach tornado > cloakstall > mach tornado > cloakstall etc.
Your timing with the c-stick is probably off, it's very delicate.I don't think I'm doing it correctly...
1) Stand on stage.
2) Down - B.
3) Keep holding the Control stick down.
4) Tap the C stick up repeatedly, as you hold down the Control stick.
5) Run around in the infinite dimensional cape!
Is that right? Whenever I try it, it doesn't work.
Ok... deep breath. Can the naked eye tell if I'm doing it for 2.99 seconds or 3.05 seconds when the threshhold is 3.00 seconds?The naked eye can see that only one character is on the screen. Not to mention, people can look, see, and hear when anyone is slamming their c-stick up in one direction for long periods of time.
Depends on which tournament you to go and at which point in time it was. It's universal for all characters and all infinites. It's not stage dependant. Who says it's "common sense"? Most tournament just set the rule up for "Once they hit 999%, you have to kill them" which wasn't really the best way to combat it but was a clear boundary nonetheless.Beyond the threshold of KO'ing your opponent? What measures this threshold? Is there a certain % for each character? Is it stage dependent? Trust me; it's not common sense. I'd feel safer cg'ing someone to 300% before throwing them while others may feel 150% - 200% is fine.
Yes it is. Especially to mess up your opponent's timing.Last time I checked, pausing a match isn't illegal.
How about they just shout for one instead of pausing the game and messing up their opponent's timing?If a person feels that they are being stalled, couldn't they pause and request a spectator?