MetaKnight Infinite Dimensional Cape - hope you enjoy

[Quez256]

Why on earth can't I do this? I'm on training mode and I'm tapping up on the c-stick with the control stick down as fast as I can ON 1/4 SPEED

WTF?!

600th post ↑

It can help you get a feel for the timing if you use the Wiimote/Nunchuk setup and calibrate the D-pad to function as the C-stick.

Edit: Keep the speed on normal, it's possible to tap it too fast.

 

[MisterMoo]

Why on earth can't I do this? I'm on training mode and I'm tapping up on the c-stick with the control stick down as fast as I can ON 1/4 SPEED

WTF?!

I can only doit in normal speed =O

 

[adumbrodeus]

Not only that, but (I'm quite sure this has been previously stated), he does NOT need to attack, and can opt to use the regular version, which is basically lagless, and cancel it into whatever move he wants. Dsmash? Yup. Shuttle Loop. Mmm, delicious mirite? Tornado? Naturally.

Yeah, I know.

I wasn't even about to get into the possibilities from choosing not to attack... they are that scary... still it's a guessing game. I really think the biggest difference is gonna be... he can grab from it...

There's no ending lag if you just wrap from it and choose not to go on the offense. Also, with the Nunchuk combo and custom controls, it's so ridiculously easy to do that any naysayers that haven't already been refuted by Yuna, and still believe this technique isn't humanly possible for extended periods of time might as well not have said anything at all.

Even without that, given enough practice (and there certainly are players dedicated enough to do that), even without the custom controls, it'll be second nature.

Game start. Laser. I grab edge.

This would be what the game would dissolve into.

You're not safe on the edge, I know somebody did a major thread on this in tactical, but basically all the ledge options are too punishable for it to be practical as an infinite stall.


Regardless, I shield and then jump out of shield if you don't laser immediately. Then I keep out of your direct line until I can use the combo. At that point, most you can hope for is a 0 to 0 game.


Either way, we both know that this technique will be utterly devastating to the metagame, so I don't think it's worth debating whether it will be because MK will be the Akuma of Brawl or the game will be reduced to infinite ledge stall.

Because those are the two options, and neither are pretty.


(As if it matters) I vote ban the technique universally. The criteria for usage of the technique still probably needs to be figured out, but even as just an approach, it's far too powerful.

Huh. Shoryuken says banned if used to stall.

Anything wrong with that wording?

The problem is... it's still a God tier approach that basically gives him an advantageous match-up against the entire cast.

I look at this tech and see exactly the same reasoning behind why Akuma got banned in Street Fighter 2 Turbo, he'll be so far beyond the rest of the cast that every tournie will come down to Akuma *cough cough* I mean MK vs. MK.

 

[CStrife187]

I'm also have an account on SRK, and I'm currently in the delicate process of asking Mr. Wizard for clarification on the banning of this technique. This has the potential to be lucrative enough if not banned for me to go to Evo and use this to attempt a win, and at least to win a few money matches. I'm going to have to start practicing MK though so I can have a good enough regular game to fall back on when my thumb gets tired.

for those who don't know, I'm a G&W main who plays Wolf online, so it might be hard to pick up MK in time for evo.

 

[MisterMoo]

Lol isn't evo allowing final smashes?

 

[GodotAA]

lol which is why learning this technique would be helpful lol

 

[acv]

i hope i can dodge jigglypuffs final smash with this.

 

[DFEAR]

Is it possible to get hit while you are invisible?

i did it across smashville its so fun tryin to make it useful against a cpu but hell they know where i am but works well with players to psyche them out at %'s higher than 100 :3

 

[Affinity]

Lol isn't evo allowing final smashes?

Yeah

Allowed Items at EVO 2008: Banana Peel, Unira, Spring, Mr. Saturn, Green Shell, Smoke Ball, Freezie, Super Scope, Sandbag, Food, Screw Attack, Warp Star, Metal Box, Bunny Hood, Beam Sword, Baseball Bat, Lip's Stick, Star Rod, Hothead, Smash Ball, Ray Gun, Pitfall, Cracker Launcher, Motion-Sensor Bomb, Hammer, Golden Hammer, Bumper, Franklin Badge


Reeeeeeetarded

 

[adumbrodeus]

Yeah

Allowed Items at EVO 2008: Banana Peel, Unira, Spring, Mr. Saturn, Green Shell, Smoke Ball, Freezie, Super Scope, Sandbag, Food, Screw Attack, Warp Star, Metal Box, Bunny Hood, Beam Sword, Baseball Bat, Lip's Stick, Star Rod, Hothead, Smash Ball, Ray Gun, Pitfall, Cracker Launcher, Motion-Sensor Bomb, Hammer, Golden Hammer, Bumper, Franklin Badge


Reeeeeeetarded

It always baffles me how a professional league can come up with a more gambling-centric approach "with-items" then a small group of individual players, aka the ISP project.


Seriously, smash balls? Bumpers? Are you kidding?

 

[CaliburChamp]

Third Party Turbo Controllers

I know there are some third party controllers that lets you attack continously without the strain on your thumb. SO all you would have to do is hold c-stick instead of mash it and move in the direction your going. If you had a turbo controller like that, you'll be able to do this move perfectly and infinitly.

 

[CStrife187]

i hope i can dodge jigglypuffs final smash with this.

you can avoid jiggz final smash by not being a ****** and standing next to her. If you ledge stall or just jump off the stage while she's in the final stage of it you won't be hit. You have to be either in contact with her, or very close to her to get hit. srsly, there are valid complaints against items, but most of you don't know them or don't use them. please don't use this post to start an item debate thread here. that's not what this thread is for.

items or no, evo is a pretty big tournament that's gonna have some serious $$$ and this isn't completely banned and I'm not above using this tactic to approach my opponents with invincibility over and over if somebody's gonna beat me otherwise.

edit:

Third Party Turbo Controllers

they're banned at tournaments. You can't use the turbo function on any controller.

 

[shadedstrike]

got another vid, and yeah this is prolly gonna be banned but lets do it anyways lol:

http://tinyurl.com/ssbbrawl

 

[MisterMoo]

hahahahahahaha rick roll XD

 

[cutter]

Ok so I messed around with this all last night with my friend. We both kinda got the timing down with the GC controller, but we were only able to keep Dimensional Cape going for like a second at most.

Then we switched to the Wiimote and holy crap did it make a difference. It wasn't long before we could do it for a reasonable amount of time. We were blown away by how much easier it was to do it on the Wiimote with the Dpad set to smashes.

Let's face it:
Akuma in SF2 = Broken
Tolarian Academy in Magic the Gathering = Broken
Raigeki in Yugioh = Broken
This infinite dimensional cape = Broken

If this can be mastered for as long as it can, physical ability to mash up on a button won't hold this back.

 

[CaliburChamp]

I found out a way to do this so much easier since I use a third party wireless gamecube controller. I just map the c-stick upsmash to button Y, and I mash the Y button. Unfortunately it wont turbo by holding onto Y. But its so much more easier than Mashing c stick up and it wont break you c-stick. Now I can do this for 15 seconds easily after only a few minutes of practice.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

Ahem, the first time it was stupid, now it's getting irritating.

lol.....

































































what a lame character

 

[CStrife187]

Stacey from AiB claims to be able to do this for 8 minutes. she (?) uses her pinky to hold down on the control stick and uses thumbs to alternate hitting the c-stick.

 

[Ulevo]

For the record, I am not entirely sure why keep mentioning this move being lagless, but it has a significant amount of lag out of it. Nothing huge, but not enough to sneak up behind someone and Shuttle Loop, DSmash, or anything else without them having a lot of time to Smash you, dodge, or even run. Actually, using the attack out of the Dimension Cape seems faster than just releasing it.

Also, this move allows Meta Knight to move as fast as Sonic can whilst running.

 

[Prince Of Fire]

Brawl is stupid.

I really pity the people who say that Brawl has more depth than Melee.

You are all ********.

 

[Frames]

In Florida, we have been discussing this extensively trying to decide whether or not it should be banned in our upcoming tournament FAST 1.

My policy has always been to never ban something until it is proven broken by means of decisive evidence (i.e. tournament results, basically anything more concrete than "i tested it today it should be banned").

One person in particular made a good argument against banning it, and it's a sentiment that I too share, which is why it will not be banned in our upcoming tournament. This was his argument, which I reposted to hopefully clear things up about this.

First thing I can say is please...please...everybody just take a step back and calm down a bit. This reminds me of the first time TL's dsmash kill video came out. lol aaaaaanyways...

To basically ride the fence on this one, both sides of the argument are right here.

First of all, the side wanting to allow the tactic says the following:

Might have some applicable undiscovered use.
Should be tested at a tournament.
Incredibly hard to do for a long period of time.
Not game-breaking until it...breaks the game.

and the side wanting it to be BANNNNNNNED:

Obviously broken for the invincibility.
Could be (potentially) used to stall a match.
Doesn't matter how hard it is...somebody will learn to do it.
Should be banned.

Let me just take parts of both sides and pair them together.

Yes, should MK be able to maintain invincibility permanently for 8 minutes, that's pretty ridiculous in a tournament setting. however, it has been seen that this is incredibly hard to do. My arm starts aching pretty quick with it...and I'm a good masher, so yeah, I believe that. However, what Dguy and others have said before in this thread is true. If a tactic could be used to win a tournament, somebody will figure out a good way to do it...possibly an arm position, or a different control scheme or something... Don't argue with me about how he could...I don't know everything about the game. I'm just stating a fact that some little kid will figure this out somewhere. it just happens.

The move is a broken approach...somewhat...it's a better retreat at the moment, but seriously, the move has been around for what...a day? so it may have uses unknown to us.



Now for the part where all of you kinda take a deep breath.

Frames and I are both very unwilling to ban a potentially useful tactic just because a scary video comes out. This has happened several times so far, and nothing has really been that gamebreaking. So to just blindly ban a tactic because of a video is pretty ridiculous.

However, stalling, as a core tactic, has already been banned for FAST1. Let me talk about stalling for a bit.
first of all, a definition.
Stalling is the use of any move/tactic/whatever that is simply used to run time on the clock. It has no real benefit to either player, except in the case of a win by time limit. For example:

Jiggs Infinite rising pound under the stage
Peach bomber with no intent to come up
IC wobbling past a certain point
IC freeze glitch
M2 Soul Stunner (is this even possible in a tourney setting?)

Do not be confused.
Projectile camping is not banned.
you can run away and fire your blaster as much as your heart desires. Your character was given a long range weapon in the normal realms of the game, and to take away that advantage would be wrong. In the same manner, spamming a single attacking move, such as Tornado (or moves like counter, even) is completely allowed.

Stalling would be defined as any of the following (with a few more because I can't list everything off the top of my head), to any great degree:

Repeatedly flying under the stage with or MK
Sonic's B thing...although it's not that useful
JUST running away...not attacking or getting close
and now this MK tactic used to stall a match.

What exactly constitutes stalling ...and why is it different than a regular mindgame...is an excellent question.

The answer is intent. It's easy to see when a person is using a tactic to confuse...and using a tactic to stall. I'm not going to give a set time limit or anything of the sort, because of course, the time limits would vary between tactics, and I'm not going to spend that amount of time on this.

IF YOU THINK SOMEBODY IS STALLING YOU...what should you do?

Report it to the closest tournament director. I've been recruiting these people over in the FAST thread to help out with situations such as this. yell to them during the match. A director will come watch and make a judgment on the said "stalling". he will verbally inform both players.

IF YOU ARE CAUGHT STALLING IN A SET

the first infraction will be a warning, making you stop whatever it is you are using...and the tourney director will stay and watch the rest of the set.
The second time is a single stock loss. You will be forced to run off the stage without inflicting any more damage to your opponent.
The third is the loss of the match, but not the set.
The fourth is the loss of the set.

plain and simple. If you are abusing stalling, you will be punished for it.We're not going to go crazy here, but yeah, it needs to be enforced.

MK's new tactic, by itself, will not be considered stalling...as long as you use it in an appropriate manner. If you are just holding it invincible somehow...or you are using it repeatedly to get away from your opponent, you will be warned and so-on.

Everybody feel better?

 

[Pierce7d]

Just for the record, I said that you could use the Dpad with the Wiimote nunchuck setting AGES AGO. WTF didn't anyone listen to me (actually, I was the second person to say so). In fact, someone said I was lying when I said I did it for a minute.

Anyway, I think the thread has calmed down a bit. Wonder how long that lasts?

 

[Affinity]

Stacey from AiB claims to be able to do this for 8 minutes. she (?) uses her pinky to hold down on the control stick and uses thumbs to alternate hitting the c-stick.

Good Lord...

 

[Royal Altean]

For the love of God.

I honestly thought MK couldn't get ANY more gay, not to mention broken.

Now this.

Everyone should incinerate their copy of Brawl and play Melee. Or something. I don't know. Just make the competitive homosexuality stop.

 

[IrArby]

As to using a Turbo Controler so as to hold the Cstick up and do it perfectly. This isn't neccesarily true since there is a timing to this whole thing right. Just think of the people doing it too fast at 1/4 speed.

And this is by far more broken then anything yet discovered in Brawl or in my opinion any Smash game. You can niether be hit or seen. The only way it could be more broken was if it allowed you to hit your opponent during you invis/inviciblity.

 

[Samus-T]

wow..... brawl is so gay. never thought id say this but this wouldnt happen in melee

 

[adumbrodeus]

In Florida, we have been discussing this extensively trying to decide whether or not it should be banned in our upcoming tournament FAST 1.

My policy has always been to never ban something until it is proven broken by means of decisive evidence (i.e. tournament results, basically anything more concrete than "i tested it today it should be banned").

One person in particular made a good argument against banning it, and it's a sentiment that I too share, which is why it will not be banned in our upcoming tournament. This was his argument, which I reposted to hopefully clear things up about this.

Fine, leave it for your tournie.

However, as I mentioned many times before, what this reminds me most of is Street Fighter 2 Turbo's Akuma.

Granted, the reasoning is somewhat difference, but the circumstance is far too reminiscent.

The approach isn't theoretical, the move only has a laggy start-up with the disappearance animation. Prior to the hitboxes appearing, there is no indicators from the disapearence, the start-up is the only broadcasting the move does, so the user has to predict when MK will decide to attack, because if he/she doesn't start first, the attack goes through, or for some counters, at the same time. And if they don't move or predict wrong, they get punished significantly. MK on the other hand, can attack at any random time and be assured a very high success rate.

He can also just use it to get into a safe range and dtilt, then get out before an opponent can approach. The non-attacking version is too laggy to do anything else, unless the opponent guesses wrong.


As for stalling, it isn't just theoretical, it's realistic. Given a bit of practice, people can already maintain it for relatively long periods of time. 8 minutes really isn't too bad.

This level of brokeness is about as broken as "the game engine just can't handle his attacks".

Thinking this tech isn't completely broken is massive optimism.

 

[Fogo]

got it, very nice :]

 

[xS A M U R A Ix]

Mastering this technique will definitely satisfy your girlfriend IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN.

 

[xReDEMx]

i did it

its hard but i manage to keep it for about 7 sec then i gey tired =/ haha

 

[bbb]

lol




10lols

 

[PK Hexagon]

Everyone seems to be disregarding the fact that even without stalling, retreating, etc this still breaks Meta-Knight. He was already the best character in the game. Now he has the hands down best approach, he can nullify projectile spam, and this move can't be realistically countered.

 

[xReDEMx]

lolz







25 =D

 

[SlashTalon]

$5 Says Sakurai put this in on purpose.

DDD=CG
MK=InfiniDC/Machtornado

all we need to do now is find the ridiculously broken thing Kirby has...

 

[xReDEMx]

watch falco be able to fly Lol

=D

 

[SketchHurricane]

$5 Says Sakurai put this in on purpose.

DDD=CG
MK=InfiniDC/Machtornado

all we need to do now is find the ridiculously broken thing Kirby has...

Soon Kirby will be able to fight in rock form. The cypher will be complete. The three moons of Sakurai will align and the world will end.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Everyone seems to be disregarding the fact that even without stalling, retreating, etc this still breaks Meta-Knight. He was already the best character in the game. Now he has the hands down best approach, he can nullify projectile spam, and this move can't be realistically countered.

Not everyone...

Actually, I've been pointing that out, as have several other people.


And again, this tech alone utterly breaks MK, even when used as only an approach, because the approach is almost impossible to counter, and incredibly easy to be successful with.

There's absolutely no reliable counter for any character, it just makes match-ups irrelevant. If it's allowed, the other stuff he has is just icing on the cake, 99-1 matchups over the entire cast instead of 90-1.

 

[SlashTalon]

watch falco be able to fly Lol

=D

Completely lagless side B!!!!!!

<3

If only...

 

[Marth & Ike]

Since the only realistic way to make it last for long periods of time is using the Wiimote + Nunchuck (with a custom configuration), why not just ban custom configurations on the Wiimote + Nunchuck for Metaknight? This would leave open the possibility of using the move, without having to worry about it being used all game.

Sure, the move appears broken as all hell, but it isn't realistic to expect a person to be physically able to stall for the entire match.

(Personally I would just ban it for the reasons Yuna has stated, but I am trying to play Devil's Advocate and find a way for it to be legal)

 

[adumbrodeus]

Since the only realistic way to make it last for long periods of time is using the Wiimote + Nunchuck (with a custom configuration), why not just ban custom configurations on the Wiimote + Nunchuck for Metaknight? This would leave open the possibility of using the move, without having to worry about it being used all game.

Sure, the move appears broken as all hell, but it isn't realistic to expect a person to be physically able to stall for the entire match.

(Personally I would just ban it for the reasons Yuna has stated, but I am trying to play Devil's Advocate and find a way for it to be legal)

Because it's not just the stalling that's broken as heck, as I already stated, the approach is no less broken.

Furthermore, it's not unreasonable, if that's the best strategy, people will adapt. If people can make stuff like praying (evil EVIL Ness AT in melee that involved tailwhipping fox, and fox only with pk thunder, incredibly difficult but instant death) automatic, I think that can train this in so it can be done continuously for a couple of minutes.