#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Basically, Falco's anti-approach game wrecks Wario if done right.
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Metagame Development Thread. New thing to read!
- Thread starter SnackAttack
- Start date
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
I don't have to approach falco if I have the lead =/. Even if I do have to approach him it's not as though I can't get inside of him. Same goes for MK, Marth, ROB, Wolf, Kirby, Peach, or any other character that tries to wall you with tilts and fairs forget to mention Lucario and DK etc etc etc but I believe you get more point. Hell even mario and luigi can try it. Out ranging Wario =/= a bad match up for Wario. Having a fast jab =/= beating Wario. Trust me man I've read up on the match up on both boards as well as watched video's, and played the match up. Sorry for the late response been trying to get my brawl back anyways if you want to talk over AIm or MSN you may want to actually have your stuff listed =/.
No it doesn't. There isn't any character in the game that can prevent wario from approaching them. If the wario is getting walled and falling prey to whatever falco is throwing out then it's the Wario's fault.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Sigh.
Get past lasers
If above, utilt beats everything.
If from the sides, ftilt/jab beats everything.
If falco is feeling cewl, he can jumpnair/bair
What do?
Jump in with lasers, make Falco commit, punish. Basically like every other character that has all their moves that beat Wario.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Commit to what? A jab? An utilt? A ftilt? If well spaced these things are unpunishable and even if whiffed have very little downtime.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Shield then grab?
@Xonar what's very little down time mean? You sure those moves are unpunishable ? Wario loves to punish moves that players tend to think are safe. Actually I think things like that is what sets good wario's apart from great wario's.
toobusytocare
Smash Lord
CG roughly goes from 60-110 which is 50%
3 uairs does roughly 48%
anyways fiction didnt just lose because he dropped the CG lmao. Larry is just ******* good (as is fiction) and he's also insane at that matchup.
falco has the (slight) advantage because basically as previously stated, he is a fortress.
Lasers can force you into unfavorable positions, if you can't SDI the CG to spike then you are in a really bad spot because wario only has one chance at recovery, he walls wario with the best arguably as good as D3, etc.
seriously, falco walls wario hard, and besides that i really cant explain it. Fiction said it himself, its hard to explain the matchup you just have to play a god falco yourself which i doubt you ever have b/c last i checked you still haven't left wifi <____<
SnackAttack
Smash Champion
I have to agree with TBTC. Sorry there, AL.
He just has too much on us.
It's definitely 55-45 Falco; we can win, it's just harder to do so.
He just has too much on us.
It's definitely 55-45 Falco; we can win, it's just harder to do so.
ssbbFICTION
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2008
- Messages
- 2,535
If it means anything my falco ***** larrys wario 
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
I've been to five tournies most of them were last year. The last tourney I went to was a ktar2 and I didn't get a chance to enter because they moved the start time. So I guess you need to check again.
CG starts at 53 ends at 120. That's 67 damage. Oh yeah then there's the fthrow to at the en. Like I said you guys kept talking about falco walling Wario yet I never see it happen. It's like ZOMG bair bair bair **** doesn't work. Go back and look at fiction's set with Larry. I don't see how he doesn't win if doesn't drop the CG. Especially if he does a FThrow at the end of the CG. So not only does he put him up to like 130 he also has nair edge guards for more damage and possible gimps.
Larry beating fiction could have nothing to do with the MU ratio at all. Larry could just be a better player than fiction. No offense to fiction or anything since he's playing at a level that I can only hope to one day play at. But I seriously doubt that Fiction would lose to any falco not named Larry. Fiction do you think you'd lose to another falco other than DEHF ?
Oh yeah I saw reflex beat kismet in a set with PT I guess falco vs PT is in the PT favor. Mike Haze also lost to BIg Lou's Luigi's that mat match up must be 70-30 luigi now amirite?
Krystedez
Awaken the Path
Okay, time for my biased opinion!
All those tilts? Shield. **** them.
All those aerials? OMG A BIRD FLYS but not with any horizontal prowess.
All that camping. DAT ***. I mean it. DAT. FREAKING. @$$. Get behind him, mind game him, anything, it's not even an approach. It's a punishment. You're punishing his way to be gay. You heard the saying about being gay. If you want to beat a gay falco, you have be gayer in the matchup. (this is exactly how someone worded that MU before). That means camping him out, don't approach unless you know it's going to work, and stay medium-to far distance from him, so you can trick a misplaced/mistimed forward B. The more you make a falco more uncomfortable with one of their safest moves, the more times they'll mess up.
Finally, my really biased point. Mind game with the bike. They don't know if you're going to throw that tire for sure or not. Give them a reason to kick out that laggy-*** reflector. pick up your bike, throw it down, watch them reflect it past and behind you, and you come and chomp them, grab them, ANYTHING. as long as you're at medium distance, and you trick them with the bike, READ TRICK THEM, NOT ACTUALLY AIM TO HIT THEM, you'll add just that much more to the table as far as pressure goes. They are forced to use the reflector if you're too far, which medium distances is just about right to keep from being punished for picking up a bike.
Tires are awesome because they're little annoyances that can be throw in all four directions and glide-tossed anywhere to mind-game them to think "to reflector or not to reflector?". . . Once you've got them NOT REFLECTING for a second, there's your free lead.
That's where I'll stop for now, this strategy is exactly what helped me beat most reflector abuse Falcos, and I think it will help against Arty. (I was mind-locked against him in a bracket match in chicago months ago and kept throwing my bike at him, just to have it reflected and betray me T_T... So I been thinking this over a lot.)
All those tilts? Shield. **** them.
All those aerials? OMG A BIRD FLYS but not with any horizontal prowess.
All that camping. DAT ***. I mean it. DAT. FREAKING. @$$. Get behind him, mind game him, anything, it's not even an approach. It's a punishment. You're punishing his way to be gay. You heard the saying about being gay. If you want to beat a gay falco, you have be gayer in the matchup. (this is exactly how someone worded that MU before). That means camping him out, don't approach unless you know it's going to work, and stay medium-to far distance from him, so you can trick a misplaced/mistimed forward B. The more you make a falco more uncomfortable with one of their safest moves, the more times they'll mess up.
Finally, my really biased point. Mind game with the bike. They don't know if you're going to throw that tire for sure or not. Give them a reason to kick out that laggy-*** reflector. pick up your bike, throw it down, watch them reflect it past and behind you, and you come and chomp them, grab them, ANYTHING. as long as you're at medium distance, and you trick them with the bike, READ TRICK THEM, NOT ACTUALLY AIM TO HIT THEM, you'll add just that much more to the table as far as pressure goes. They are forced to use the reflector if you're too far, which medium distances is just about right to keep from being punished for picking up a bike.
Tires are awesome because they're little annoyances that can be throw in all four directions and glide-tossed anywhere to mind-game them to think "to reflector or not to reflector?". . . Once you've got them NOT REFLECTING for a second, there's your free lead.
That's where I'll stop for now, this strategy is exactly what helped me beat most reflector abuse Falcos, and I think it will help against Arty. (I was mind-locked against him in a bracket match in chicago months ago and kept throwing my bike at him, just to have it reflected and betray me T_T... So I been thinking this over a lot.)
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
I'd love to MM Krystadez reading this <3
You coming to EU any time soon man?
You coming to EU any time soon man?
Krystedez
Awaken the Path
WTF your avatar changed right before my eyes XD
Anyways I wish I was able to travel abroad like some of you guys but I don't have the money or time D: EU has a lot of really good players.
Come to a national in the MW region of US and I'm sure to be there XP... Yeah, that sounds like a **** move, telling YOU to come and not me... lol.
I really want to play more falcos. XD It's a fun matchup.
Anyways I wish I was able to travel abroad like some of you guys but I don't have the money or time D: EU has a lot of really good players.
Come to a national in the MW region of US and I'm sure to be there XP... Yeah, that sounds like a **** move, telling YOU to come and not me... lol.
I really want to play more falcos. XD It's a fun matchup.
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
If I'd go to the US I'd def visit the MW regio, especially Ohio, I have quite a few intrawebs friends in that regio.
Not that I'll be visitting any time soon T__T
Not that I'll be visitting any time soon T__T
Dynomite
Smash Champion
um.. APEX2??
#HBC | ZoZo
Shocodoro Blagshidect
Give me some cash <3
toobusytocare
Smash Lord
the CG ends at 110, but then you uthrow for 9%
and i never said that fiction losing to larry is why the matchup is bad <_<
Once you've played a falco who camps and walls you out the entire match you will understand...
You are entitled to your own opinions and I can't force you to change your opinion on a matchup, so if you think wario beats falco, prove it, beat keitaro (he's in your region right?) and prove me wrong. But mostly every good wario main agrees on 45:55.
and i never said that fiction losing to larry is why the matchup is bad <_<
Once you've played a falco who camps and walls you out the entire match you will understand...
You are entitled to your own opinions and I can't force you to change your opinion on a matchup, so if you think wario beats falco, prove it, beat keitaro (he's in your region right?) and prove me wrong. But mostly every good wario main agrees on 45:55.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
I'll try my best but I'll most likely lose.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
Honestly, Falco has no issues with shield approaches AT ALL. You don't want to be in a boxing game against Falco, that's just really silly.
Updating my profile.
Updating my profile.
Dynomite
Smash Champion
If this is aimed towards me i will respond but im not going to start anything right now because i dont know who this is aimed at.
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
he was talking to me.
Dyno... always willing to start something, but not a fan of misunderstandings.
Dynomite
Smash Champion
No. I do not like starting things. I'm more of a relaxed person. I just talk about what works for me and give my thoughts trying to help others out. It just eats at me when people talk down and say that the way I play is completely wrong especially when the person saying these things has not proved himself in the scene. PhantX I'm sure I have got into some arguments with you but you have proven yourself as a worthy player and if you think that I do not listen to what you tell me, I do and I appreciate it. Other than that I'm a chill guy who doesn't like to argue. I would rather just listen to trance and chill rather than argue really.
toobusytocare
Smash Lord
fiction definitely hasnt proven himself in the scene lmao
on a more serious note, i dont play wario so i dont gotta prove **** (ok maybe that wasnt serious lol)
on a more serious note, i dont play wario so i dont gotta prove **** (ok maybe that wasnt serious lol)
If you're jumping in at an angle you know he's going to utilt you... how hard is it to punish something you know is coming? Not very. Come on... Wario can punish MKs dair and upair on whiffs, for crying out loud.
toobusytocare
Smash Lord
inb4everyone
krystedez has a weird playstyle, i dont think he'd beat larry again <_<
krystedez has a weird playstyle, i dont think he'd beat larry again <_<
PieDisliker
Smash Lord
Krystedez is legit.
This is like the first time DEHF lost to a Wario in like... 10 months.
This is like the first time DEHF lost to a Wario in like... 10 months.
toobusytocare
Smash Lord
SO apparently Larry had some SDing first match but then 3 stocked krystedez pretty bad on BF and then barely lost on brinstar
then krystedez lost to sky's falco LMAO
then krystedez lost to sky's falco LMAO
Get at that Brinstar.
So kryz didnt show up to his match with sky? And no johns for DEHF's SD ( I dunno if he did or not but Im just saying). Part of a player's skil is making sure nothing silly like that happens. You cant afford silly screwups on the professional level.
Nice job krystedez!
Nice job krystedez!
Krystedez
Awaken the Path
Bassem said it quite well, and that includes my DQ as well. I am not ashamed to say that I got DQ'd for a stupid reason that could have been easily remedied had I stayed like, right next to the announcer all night. But I got up to get something to drink and low and behold, MLG DQ's me because I'm supposedly 15+ minutes late to their "tentative" schedule's time, even though I left at 10:40 PM being told by both AZ and the info desk woman round 3 was not to start until 11:30 PM.
They supposedly called it at 10:51, but our referee Pierce said 10:46, and then I got a whole bunch of bull**** whispered into my ear from both sides. (Skye saying he didn't have control, Pierce saying that Skye pushed from them to DQ me even though I still had 5 potential minutes left, which I got down there in 2 minutes, arriving right on the 15th allowed minute.)
I don't really care about my win against DEHF. I got to play a whole three matches. Then I lost a very close game to Big Lou. Kudos to him.
-_-;
Like I and others said, I got DQ'd in the round.Don't talk about things you don't know about. I didn't even get to see the guy's Falco. I sure did see a lot of his face though, more than I care to see. He was very hyped up about the tourney, and was astounded watching my win against DEHF, and then simply refused to play me/talked behind my back when the whole early match call occurred. He even said "I know I could lose even if you played me with a game down."
I don't really know what I did to the guy to deserve that. Just some guy from California that acted crazy. I was trying to be nice to him, even after all the BS happening afterward, I shook his hand and said gg after being DQ'd against him because AZ said I couldn't do anything about it. I should have just sat on his desk or something LOL, I really wanted to play DEHF's bracket so I could face some hot competition they had there. To be quite honest I was really ready to break down because of all the mixed emotions and stuff. Then he bragged behind my back (jokingly or w/e, doesn't matter) and insisted that I explain to him later why he was getting hate shoutouts and stuff...?
If you want my honest opinion, his falco was ****, but I didn't even have to use my bike tricks against him half the time. I used them on the slants of Halberd a little first stock, and that was it. Wasn't really needed the rest of the match.
Battlefield I got handily 3-stocked because I didn't even take my own advice. Hell, my bike wasn't even hardly used. Battlefield I think is possibly THE worst stage against Falco, because it's small and easy for him to approach safely. FD is the next one. SV is okay. I banned SV thinking the other way around, lol. I'd rather fight him on FD any day of the week. Least I can get my bike out and not get too close to the ledge all the time to be CG'd to spike. Plus, you know, Fiction lost on BF against his Falco after getting cocky with his wario buffered CG, so it's w/e.
Full Match statistics:
Halberd: I 2 stocked him with about 15X-18X (cant remember) left.
Battlefield: I got 3 stocked with him at about 13Xish?
Brinstar: Far from barely a win, I had about a 10 percent lead I think with him at about 118-maybe 120s, a lot of his moves were stale already except maybe fsmash, and I fresh f-tilted him when he was on the ledge of the right side, he got hit by the extended hitbox of the ftilt from hitting the vine. It was neck and neck, but nothing like the WHOAMG percents that make it "barely a win".
FINAL FINAL OPINION FOR FALCO MATCHUP: I think it largely depends on stage. If you take away most the norm neutrals from Falco in MLG ruleset, he might have a problem first game. In regular ruleset, do not go BF or FD unless on FD you use bike like I do for defense (I LOVE FD compared to BF or SV)... you get a lot more DI room and less room for him to catch your mistakes.
They supposedly called it at 10:51, but our referee Pierce said 10:46, and then I got a whole bunch of bull**** whispered into my ear from both sides. (Skye saying he didn't have control, Pierce saying that Skye pushed from them to DQ me even though I still had 5 potential minutes left, which I got down there in 2 minutes, arriving right on the 15th allowed minute.)
I don't really care about my win against DEHF. I got to play a whole three matches. Then I lost a very close game to Big Lou. Kudos to him.
Larry SD'd one time on his stage strike first game. He got underneath Halberd's floating platform somehow with either one of my hits of something he was trying to do. Brawl Taunts quote... "....uurrg... FIREEEEeeOOOopss, I died." I can't remember, I think it was second stock he SD'd on, so it's not like had any momentum to begin the match with.
-_-;
Like I and others said, I got DQ'd in the round.Don't talk about things you don't know about. I didn't even get to see the guy's Falco. I sure did see a lot of his face though, more than I care to see. He was very hyped up about the tourney, and was astounded watching my win against DEHF, and then simply refused to play me/talked behind my back when the whole early match call occurred. He even said "I know I could lose even if you played me with a game down."
I don't really know what I did to the guy to deserve that. Just some guy from California that acted crazy. I was trying to be nice to him, even after all the BS happening afterward, I shook his hand and said gg after being DQ'd against him because AZ said I couldn't do anything about it. I should have just sat on his desk or something LOL, I really wanted to play DEHF's bracket so I could face some hot competition they had there. To be quite honest I was really ready to break down because of all the mixed emotions and stuff. Then he bragged behind my back (jokingly or w/e, doesn't matter) and insisted that I explain to him later why he was getting hate shoutouts and stuff...?
If you want my honest opinion, his falco was ****, but I didn't even have to use my bike tricks against him half the time. I used them on the slants of Halberd a little first stock, and that was it. Wasn't really needed the rest of the match.
Battlefield I got handily 3-stocked because I didn't even take my own advice. Hell, my bike wasn't even hardly used. Battlefield I think is possibly THE worst stage against Falco, because it's small and easy for him to approach safely. FD is the next one. SV is okay. I banned SV thinking the other way around, lol. I'd rather fight him on FD any day of the week. Least I can get my bike out and not get too close to the ledge all the time to be CG'd to spike. Plus, you know, Fiction lost on BF against his Falco after getting cocky with his wario buffered CG, so it's w/e.
Full Match statistics:
Halberd: I 2 stocked him with about 15X-18X (cant remember) left.
Battlefield: I got 3 stocked with him at about 13Xish?
Brinstar: Far from barely a win, I had about a 10 percent lead I think with him at about 118-maybe 120s, a lot of his moves were stale already except maybe fsmash, and I fresh f-tilted him when he was on the ledge of the right side, he got hit by the extended hitbox of the ftilt from hitting the vine. It was neck and neck, but nothing like the WHOAMG percents that make it "barely a win".
FINAL FINAL OPINION FOR FALCO MATCHUP: I think it largely depends on stage. If you take away most the norm neutrals from Falco in MLG ruleset, he might have a problem first game. In regular ruleset, do not go BF or FD unless on FD you use bike like I do for defense (I LOVE FD compared to BF or SV)... you get a lot more DI room and less room for him to catch your mistakes.
The CG is a double-edged sword, to be honest. If they know you go for it, they tend to play increasingly campier to prevent you doing so.
Lord Chair
Smash Master
Props to you Krys, I don't have a whole LOT to say, just... nicely done
AlMoStLeGeNdArY
Smash Hero
Upset that your idol lost to Krsystedez? I'm sure you can meat ride him so more when he beats ficiton. Tell me more bout dat MU pl0x.
Damage Points
Smash Ace
Krystedez good **** man. You represtented wario well. Good job to blue rouge and hunger as well.
Dynomite
Smash Champion
great job man. Now you know why i john about biglou all the time when i come here.
no really that guy is great. But surprisingly luigi kills wario at 90 and it always slips my mind. and he can combo you til around 60 so its rough playing a good luigi.
no really that guy is great. But surprisingly luigi kills wario at 90 and it always slips my mind. and he can combo you til around 60 so its rough playing a good luigi.
Krystedez
Awaken the Path
My rounds with boss were about 7 minutes each... if you roll, spotdodge, or airdodge into them, you lose.