Meta Knight's Revenge: The Official Match-Up Thread *Wario* -> GO

[Deoxyribonucleic_acid]

This is what I ill never understand about MK boards.

Why aren't you guys going all out and playing "gay" from the start?

Why are you holding back?

Are you afraid to see the full potential of your character or something? Sorry but when MK camps he takes away pretty much 99% of the options that anyone can do. That's just how good he is.

You can't just say oh the match-up depends on how you play. That's silly. Match-ups are based on the most effective styles of play in each match-up. If being defensive is the best style (and it is because this is brawl remember?) that's what you are basing the match-up on.

Not when people use an inferior style such as constant rushdown.

You MK players crack me up.


Sometimes I wonder what would have happened to this board had I chose to advance MK's metagame and not Marth's.

One thing is for sure though....

ALOT of those 60/40's and supposed 50/50 match-ups you guys got going on would be 70/30's and 60/40's respectively, had I been running things.

It's like you guys purposely downplay MK's potential.

Worst part is that SWF believes your act. **** is incredible.

So basically, you're saying we're all sandbagging? Rofl. And you can't always camp. Sometimes you have to be offensive as hell, like when you fight diddy so he can't pull pot those bloody bananas.

 

[Emblem Lord]

More like you just don't want to go all out for w/e reason.

Maybe because going all out is just super boring or maybe you fear the judgement of the community.

Hell I don't know.

But I would probably punch someone in the face if I ever thought they were holding back in tournament. There is no greater insult then not intending to crush your opponent with everything you have.

Anyway, Diddy is one match-up. And you can still be defensive in that match. SWF seems to have polluted your minds with silly notions of what camping is and isn't.

 

[DanGR]

Well, all of the "gay" things Meta Knight can do effectively, but other characters can't, are banned in my state because the SBR recommended ruleset (the ruleset the TOs in my state blindly follow) isn't clear enough.

That includes air camping, planking, any form of the IDC/EDC, and NOT APPROACHING if you don't have a projectile, which is completely absurd on all levels. It's really just an attempt to water down MK to the other character's levels.

You can imagine how frustrated I am that they're banning this character's STRATEGIES before the character. *facepalm*

 

[Steel]

Seriously.. there should be none of this "70:30 if you play gay and camp, but if you just play normal it's probably around 60:40." Every ratio should be determined like EL said, with the best possible play style. I don't care if you think it's dishonorable or any of that nonsense, this community needs accuracy.

Are you afraid of the communities response if we had more 7/3's? IMHO, **** up and realize you're being way too generous.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic_acid]

Well, all of the "gay" things Meta Knight can do effectively, but other characters can't, are banned in my state because the SBR recommended ruleset (the ruleset the TOs in my state blindly follow) isn't clear enough.

That includes air camping, planking, any form of the IDC/EDC, and NOT APPROACHING if you don't have a projectile, which is completely absurd on all levels. It's really just an attempt to water down MK to the other character's levels.

You can imagine how frustrated I am that they're banning this character's STRATEGIES before the character. *facepalm*

PLEASE don't turn this into a ban dicussion.

 

[DanGR]

Well, I'm just saying that I'm not allowed to do all the things that make Meta Knight really good.

You know camping? Yeah. I can't do that.

 

[Master Raven]

No one said you couldn't camp rofl

 

[Darxmarth23]

I go all out when I play. Even against the crappiest off all opponents. I show them why Mk is top....

 

[DanGR]

No one said you couldn't camp rofl

My TOs did. <_______<

Oh, also. Read my sig.

 

[Master Raven]

Wow those are some ****ty TOs. Only IDC and to some extent planking are usually banned.

 

[Affinity]

My TOs did. <_______<

Oh, also. Read my sig.

Was this a Gamestop tournament? lol

 

[DanGR]

No, it's the main one.

This shouldn't be the topic of this thread though. We're getting off track.

Sorry. <__<

 

[Affinity]

Discussions are going to be held off for a little while. I need some time to update the OP with match-ups we've already discussed.

 

[DMG]

EL had a pretty good point; I used to make "split" ratios for Wario depending on how gay Wario played since a lot of Wario's at that time either did not play gay, or did not understand how to play as gay as I was envisioning. Looking back on that, I should have just stuck to the single "gayer" ratio and explained that the matchup would probably be harder if you did not camp, which should have been an stronger incentive to camp and play the matchup correctly.

 

[OverLade]

Seriously.. there should be none of this "70:30 if you play gay and camp, but if you just play normal it's probably around 60:40." Every ratio should be determined like EL said, with the best possible play style. I don't care if you think it's dishonorable or any of that nonsense, this community needs accuracy.

Are you afraid of the communities response if we had more 7/3's? IMHO, **** up and realize you're being way too generous.

But the reality is that most people dont play as gay as they humanly could. I think matchups should be based on "general" metagame, since a lot of matchups drastically change when one character plays gay.

Dont get me wrong, you have a really good point, I just think it's not realistic if the matchup numbers are too dramatic. It's safe to base on how most people are willing to play, at least imo.

This is what I ill never understand about MK boards.

Why aren't you guys going all out and playing "gay" from the start?

Why are you holding back?

Are you afraid to see the full potential of your character or something? Sorry but when MK camps he takes away pretty much 99% of the options that anyone can do. That's just how good he is.

You can't just say oh the match-up depends on how you play. That's silly. Match-ups are based on the most effective styles of play in each match-up. If being defensive is the best style (and it is because this is brawl remember?) that's what you are basing the match-up on.

Not when people use an inferior style such as constant rushdown.

You MK players crack me up.


Sometimes I wonder what would have happened to this board had I chose to advance MK's metagame and not Marth's.

One thing is for sure though....

ALOT of those 60/40's and supposed 50/50 match-ups you guys got going on would be 70/30's and 60/40's respectively, had I been running things.

It's like you guys purposely downplay MK's potential.

Worst part is that SWF believes your act. **** is incredible.

Because MK is the only character in the game that can play aggressively and be successful at any level and I dont mind trading a tiny bit of success for fun. In general I think MK does just as well aggressively as he does campy in most matchups, with some extreme exceptions.

And yeah, its a MFing conspiracy.

 

[Overswarm]

Overswarm has never played the best robs right? just cuz hes good with him doesnt mean alot. when you guys lose to NL and holy's ROBs, im going to laugh. go to game unicon guys

Ninjalink's ROB sucks. He's a good player that is just playing ROB.

Fun fact:

ROB can't air dodge MK's u-tilt. Whoops! Better do an aerial if you're landing on top of him.

Fun fact 2:

MK can wait below ROB, walking slightly behind him so ROB can't fair, and then shield grab to f-throw or up+b (not out of shield, just up+B) to start the process, forcing ROB to grab the ledge or get lucky to touch the ground.

Fun fact 3:

The moment ROB grabs the ledge, do a retreating fair from the ledge, then immediately tornado. You hit him off the ledge unless he drops down and rejumps (but he only "snaps" by using some of his fuel!). You can repeat this process infinitely because you land outside the range of his fair! If he doesn't have a fully charged gyro, he doesn't even have a mindgame "surprise" attack against you if you have slow reflexes!

Fun fact 4:

If you find the above waaaaaay too complicated, you can literally stand next to the edge and watch ROB. Shield, then tornado out of shield. Or just tornado. Either or. He can't beat it without calling you on it and hitting you. Did I mention MK has a lot of edgeguarding options when ROB is on the ledge?

Fun fact 5:

ROB can't air dodge out of his up+b. This means trading hits with him = worth it. Do a fast-falled dair. I don't care what he's using, do a fast-falled dair. He then has to use TWICE as much fuel as he normally would... thus nearly emptying his tanks. Simply hitting him off stage again will kill him. Also, he's recovering from above with very slow falling speed and low air mobility. See fun facts 1 and 2.

Fun fact 6:

ROB's projectiles SUCK in this matchup. The only good one is a fully charged gyro or a gyro in the hand, and even then they aren't that great. Just keep your eyes on ROB and hold down shield. Problem solved.

Fun fact 7:

You know how that crazy ROB is always chasing you waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay up high? Ya know, when he nairs and kills you at 80%? That's because he can't reliably kill you otherwise. In fact, you often kill him at earlier percents.

When he uses his double jump and starts up+bing, use your own b moves! Tornado if he's really close, and then you might get an early KO. If he's in the right spot, over-b. He can't DODGE it and you pop him up. You can also just down+b right through him and fast fall to the ground. If you time it right, he's busy nairing or u-airing. You can also up+b from way up high and then glide really fast to the stage. ROB can't follow you because he moves too slow! :D :D :D

It's wonderful when down+b is a legitimate recovery move from the top of the screen.

Fun fact 8:

ROB's got ONE thing on you. D-smash. Specifically, spot dodge d-smash. That's it. Everything else is literally a guessing game. ROB mains have to be psychic to get a KO, or the MK has to be stupid.

How do you remove the d-smash from the game?

For one, hold left. This removes it as a KO move.

You can hold up, but we'll just d-smash again.... so unless you are at high percents and are teching it (eat a fully charged gyro and/or laser), don't DI up.

More importantly, just don't land next to him. Don't do that whole "run up fair" thing. It doesn't work. There's no reason for it. Just... dair. Run forward, hit up on the control stick, then down on the c-stick. Then jump and dair some more. Did you hit his shield at least twice? Good! You can tornado and shield poke him even if he perfect shields and spot dodges perfectly while angling his shield up. You might have to tornado AGAIN though (groan) if he perfect shields and rolls. It's unlikely he'll perfect shield though... he's been shielding your dairs!

If you don't want to announce your tornado, simply do a falling tornado. So it's jump dair jump dair tornado. No extra jump. Just mash B to try the shield poke, you'll rise up enough... and he won't powershield, if he shields at all.

If for some reason you aren't comfortable with it, just tornado away. If you auto-cancel it, you can generally shield any projectile he throws. At worse you're going to eat a laser. Oh well.

Fun fact 9:

About 90% of the original ROB mains, myself included, switched to Metaknight. This doesn't mean "a lot of good ROB mains switched to MK". This means ALL ROB mains switched. All of 'em. Switched to MK or quit.

Fun fact 10:

Holy has himself stated multiple times how impossible the matchup is when the MK knows it.

Lucky for ROB mains, your ROb advice comes from some random noob ROB and you just copy/pasta your way to failure. It's a good thing no one that actually knows ROB came in and told you basic scenarios where MK owns ROB or little tidbits like you can shield, dash, shield, then dash again and have covered FD before we can laser twice.


Oops.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

This is what I ill never understand about MK boards.

Why aren't you guys going all out and playing "gay" from the start?

Why are you holding back?

Are you afraid to see the full potential of your character or something? Sorry but when MK camps he takes away pretty much 99% of the options that anyone can do. That's just how good he is.

You can't just say oh the match-up depends on how you play. That's silly. Match-ups are based on the most effective styles of play in each match-up. If being defensive is the best style (and it is because this is brawl remember?) that's what you are basing the match-up on.

Not when people use an inferior style such as constant rushdown.

You MK players crack me up.


Sometimes I wonder what would have happened to this board had I chose to advance MK's metagame and not Marth's.

One thing is for sure though....

ALOT of those 60/40's and supposed 50/50 match-ups you guys got going on would be 70/30's and 60/40's respectively, had I been running things.

It's like you guys purposely downplay MK's potential.

Worst part is that SWF believes your act. **** is incredible.

Ether, pure and unfiltered.

mk ***** marth

ive beaten NEO multiple times even though hes a far better player and put way more time into the game than I would ever even dream of wasting XD

cmon now, lets be honest here.

its at least 60/40 MK =D

this^ although i a$$**** you now <3

The european Marth, which player jumpman is talking about, does stuff which I never see Mikehaze or Neo doing, but it works. So maybe Mikehaze and Neo just doesnt know all the tricks vs. MK. (this doesnt mean that they are worse, I dont know about this, it just says, that they arent perfect and that they maybe dont do everything in the best way; so you shouldnt rate the MU with only looking at Haze and Neo)

Lol Zac, so the Marth boards seem a little bit to be like the lower Char boards which tended to rate their char like a much better char? Just that the Marth boards are other way around, rating him lower than he actually is. ^^

Its 60:40 or 55:45 in MKs opinion. (Else Wolf is better vs. MK than Marth, haha. )

I won't repeat this again. Most of the stuff Mr.R does, Mike and I already do. the stuff that is actually applicable that is. The stuff you DON'T SEE US DOING, IS BECAUSE IT DOESN'T WORK ON -GOOD- MK'S or even PLAYERS. Double jumping @ an MK into Up-air? That will get you tornadod, yet he used that **** over and over like it was actually viable. Facepalm @ ignorant fan boys


Double Edit: You really annoy me rofl

 

[C.box]

Mr.R used alot of gimmicks like the db1 to first hit nair to usmash combo (db1 to first hit nair DOESN'T COMBO but first hit nair to usmash does), yet it looked cool so people obviously mistake it for something viable and go and act like the video is some kind of breakthrough (he still lost the set lol).


tl;dr plz don't talk about the mr.r video <.<.

 

[DMG]

You can SDI the Dancing Blade, SDI the first hit of Nair, and Usmash will not hit. Actually, you could SDI the first hit of Dancing Blade and avoid the Nair completely.

Besides, let's be perfectly honest. I watched those vids, and in one of them Mr. R does like, over 100% without getting hit/taking more than 10% himself. That is not REALISTIC for most matchups in the game, let alone a matchup where the character doing that 100% damage... has the DISADVANTAGE. Like, I WISH Wario was good enough to do that much Damage to Dojo or Tyrant or M2K before getting hit, but he's not (and Wario does better against MK than Marth). So, when I see something like that happen, I obviously have to question how well the MK was playing. After asking that question, I realized... he was not playing well (or at least, not well enough to beat that Marth/even keep up reliably with him). If you lose a matchup where you have the advantage, it means that either you were not playing good, or that your opponent is better than you by a margin large enough for him to overcome the matchup.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

Why can't more people be like DMG? I swear I'd be inspired to make serious posts on SWF more often if they were.

 

[DMG]

Why can't more people be like DMG? I swear I'd be inspired to make serious posts on SWF more often if they were.

When you play like me NEO, you have a lot of spare time on your hands to think deep thoughts while you calmly run from your opponents in game.

My first thoughts when camping:

"I don't wanna get hit, I'm gonna do this so he misses."

After that:

"4 minutes to go."

Then:

"I wonder what people feel about the MK/Marth matchup? So many good options he has... So many nullifying moves he has here... YEP bad matchup."


And by then, it's time for my next match.

 

[Sinz]

That settles it, I am just going to play gay in brawl from now on.

Also, EL is completely correct. And DMG, Dekar says hello

 

[DMG]

I say hello back to Dekar.

I also wanna give a legendary shout out to my homeboy NEO who loves butthole (don't worry, butthole is not a bad thing to love), a quick shout out to Plank for inspiring me to play this gay, and yes, I have to admit that was pretty gay when he aircamped Puffster on PS1, (I showed him how to aircamp, go look at me vs Razer on Brinstar son) a shout out to Overswarm for being a quitter, and a shout out to Inui for teaching me how to be good in Doubles.

With that, I bid the MK boards a swift farewell.

"If you can't keep it real, then keep it gay"

~DMG

 

[Overswarm]

Plank, DMG, me, and some random IC should all crew battle any other 4 players in the world. Even if the opposing crew wins, they still lose.

 

[DMG]

If I get to CP someone to Brinstar, then I personally win, even if I lose.

And I never lose on Brinstar.

 

[Overswarm]

If I get to CP someone to Brinstar, then I personally win, even if I lose.

And I never lose on Brinstar.

I have 7 counterpicks for my MK.

I've also discovered that the "trick" to running the timer on Delfino and PS1 is to simply plank during the "standard" mode. Everyone just says "ha HA! I'll just wait for the transformation!"

and I let them



being evil is good

 

[adumbrodeus]

But the reality is that most people dont play as gay as they humanly could. I think matchups should be based on "general" metagame, since a lot of matchups drastically change when one character plays gay.

Why should we encourage people to play badly?

As a character board you should be helping people win with their character, not telling them to do stupid ****.


Why should you turn a slightly disadvantaged match-up into a far more disadvantaged match-up just because you feel like playing it wrong? Why should you turn an advantagious match-up into an even or disadvantaged match-up because you're playing it wrong?

That's not even not knowing the match-up, that's knowing and DISREGUARDING it.

That's not what match-ups should be judged based on, they should be judged by the top of the metagame.

Dont get me wrong, you have a really good point, I just think it's not realistic if the matchup numbers are too dramatic. It's safe to base on how most people are willing to play, at least imo.

Because MK is the only character in the game that can play aggressively and be successful at any level and I dont mind trading a tiny bit of success for fun. In general I think MK does just as well aggressively as he does campy in most matchups, with some extreme exceptions.

And yeah, its a MFing conspiracy.

Match-ups are fundamentally theoretical numbers at the top of the metagame. Doing it wrong should not be accounted for in match-ups, ever.


And this is a campy game, he can do well aggressively in a lot of match-ups, but there are some that playing aggressively is asking to get *****, and in most match-ups is disadvantages him.


It may not be a conspiracy, but you're the MK community, you're supposed to give accurate info that we can use for metagame discussion. If your info is inaccurate, then that leads to misunderstanding of the metagame, and the community losing out overall.

You can SDI the Dancing Blade, SDI the first hit of Nair, and Usmash will not hit. Actually, you could SDI the first hit of Dancing Blade and avoid the Nair completely.

Besides, let's be perfectly honest. I watched those vids, and in one of them Mr. R does like, over 100% without getting hit/taking more than 10% himself. That is not REALISTIC for most matchups in the game, let alone a matchup where the character doing that 100% damage... has the DISADVANTAGE. Like, I WISH Wario was good enough to do that much Damage to Dojo or Tyrant or M2K before getting hit, but he's not (and Wario does better against MK than Marth). So, when I see something like that happen, I obviously have to question how well the MK was playing. After asking that question, I realized... he was not playing well (or at least, not well enough to beat that Marth/even keep up reliably with him). If you lose a matchup where you have the advantage, it means that either you were not playing good, or that your opponent is better than you by a margin large enough for him to overcome the matchup.

Or you're bad against your opponent's playstyle. Or your opponent is simply playing poorly that match/set (in which case your opponent should have a winning record against you).

Plank, DMG, me, and some random IC should all crew battle any other 4 players in the world. Even if the opposing crew wins, they still lose.

Can I get in on this? I promise, I can camp forever. I've managed to time out matches IN MELEE, against OFFENSIVE PLAYERS.

I have 7 counterpicks for my MK.

I've also discovered that the "trick" to running the timer on Delfino and PS1 is to simply plank during the "standard" mode. Everyone just says "ha HA! I'll just wait for the transformation!"

and I let them



being evil is good

Yes, being evil is good, very very good.

 

[OverLade]

This topic went from being productive to legendary.

Why should we encourage people to play badly?

As a character board you should be helping people win with their character, not telling them to do stupid ****.


Why should you turn a slightly disadvantaged match-up into a far more disadvantaged match-up just because you feel like playing it wrong? Why should you turn an advantagious match-up into an even or disadvantaged match-up because you're playing it wrong?

That's not even not knowing the match-up, that's knowing and DISREGUARDING it.

That's not what match-ups should be judged based on, they should be judged by the top of the metagame.

Lol your logic is wacked here. Back the BEST WAY to play the matchup is playing gay and not even approaching. But wait, at the top of the metagame, Metaknight players play aggressive, because it ALSO WORKS JUST AS WELL. Which is why many MKs dont choose to play gay and still do just fine.

 

[En.Ee.Oh]

Many MK's don't play gay? what ****ing MK players are YOU talking about?

 

[Deoxyribonucleic_acid]

Man this thread is so off topic right now.

 

[Nic64]

But wait, at the top of the metagame, Metaknight players play aggressive, because it ALSO WORKS JUST AS WELL. Which is why many MKs dont choose to play gay and still do just fine.

If it worked just as well you wouldn't see them turning to camping in the face of defeat, top Meta Knight's play aggressively only until that fails or when it is convenient. Just because MK is good enough to get away with not playing optimally most of the time doesn't mean that inferior strategies are just as good.

 

[adumbrodeus]

This topic went from being productive to legendary.

Lol your logic is wacked here. Back the BEST WAY to play the matchup is playing gay and not even approaching. But wait, at the top of the metagame, Metaknight players play aggressive, because it ALSO WORKS JUST AS WELL. Which is why many MKs dont choose to play gay and still do just fine.

It works because they're the best in the game, an inferior playstyle will beat an inferior player, that's just the way that it works.

It doesn't work as well, but it's fine because they don't need to 3-stock every marth player to win, they just need to one stock them. It's pretty easy to see that camping worked a lot better against for example, MikeHaze, but M2K didn't do it in the first match, because he doesn't like playing campy.

It's the same for every marth player a lot of them face, except they don't need to change the style because there are only a select few marths that actually require this at the top of the metagame.


However, the fact still remains that it's the best way to play, and encouraging MK mains NOT to play like that is often encouraging them to lose, especially the newer mk players and need to be guided on the proper ways to play this match-up so they learn on their own.

 

[DMG]

This topic went from being productive to legendary.

Lol your logic is wacked here. Back the BEST WAY to play the matchup is playing gay and not even approaching. But wait, at the top of the metagame, Metaknight players play aggressive, because it ALSO WORKS JUST AS WELL. Which is why many MKs dont choose to play gay and still do just fine.

M2K can beat most people he plays by playing aggressively because he's flat out leagues better than most smashers. You give him worthy competition, and he will resort to camping if he needs to for the win.

A great example of this was at WHOBO. M2K vs Dojo Grand Finals. First set, Dojo wins by a huge margin when M2K is playing fairly aggressive. Next set, he slows down and camps Dojo, winning that set by a fairly big margin.

MK's best overall style in matchups is camping. This doesn't mean lol always camp when you have the lead, it means that once your lead is comfortable enough, to slow things down and force your opponent to approach you unless you have hit your opponent or put them in an extremely uncomfortable position (Nana offstage, Popo in the air above you, now would be a TERRIBLE time to camp obviously lol). Make HIM/THE OPPONENT take the risks instead of you. I'm not asking for MK mains to start camping everyone for 8 minutes, but if that happens to be the best strategy for some matchups with MK, then by all means it's the players fault for not camping, not a "weakness" or flaw on MK's part. If you need to camp to gain a larger advantage, then you should already assume that the MK will play like this, otherwise how can you talk about a matchup/metagame when the characters playing aren't even using their better strategies? That would be like me stating different matchups for Wario based on whether I run from them or not. If running is my best strategy, then the matchup needs to be based on THAT, not the "Non Gay More Aggressive Approaching" style.

Many MK's don't play gay? what ****ing MK players are YOU talking about?

There are some MK's out there that don't know how to camp well with him, or they don't do it because it's "gay". Most Noteworthy MK players I know of though know how, and will, turn up the camping if necessary.

If it worked just as well you wouldn't see them turning to camping in the face of defeat, top Meta Knight's play aggressively only until that fails or when it is convenient. Just because MK is good enough to get away with not playing optimally most of the time doesn't mean that inferior strategies are just as good.

^^^^This.

Basically, the best strategy for a matchup should always be the one that counts. If the best strategy for MK is to run, then don't make a matchup ratio based on MK not running/camping. Now, it's GREAT if you would post some info on playing more aggressive in those campier matchups because we all know it's not always possible to have the lead EVERY moment of the match, especially at the very beginning, so it wouldn't be bad or look "contradicting" if you posted that MK's best strategy is to camp and then posted great ways to approach or rack up damage when needed. However, telling people that MK's best strategy is to camp, and then saying "Oh, but if you don't want to camp, you can also have this matchup ratio" is kinda silly.

 

[TKD]

Rotate discussions plx. If the odds don't go past 5/5 or 6/4 I'm happy.

 

[Overswarm]

Can I get in on this? I promise, I can camp forever. I've managed to time out matches IN MELEE, against OFFENSIVE PLAYERS.

Join the club.

My record is my 4%, 4 stocks winning against my opponent's 17% on Kongo Falls. The stage was banned promptly afterwards.

 

[OverLade]

I basically said all that stuff earlier (about not resorting to gayness unless necessary) so its not worth arguing.

Many MK's don't play gay? what ****ing MK players are YOU talking about?

DMG addressed this well enough. Gayness is relative. What I dont think is gay may be gay to you.

 

[Palpi]

If you stop and think about what Gay actually means and read these sentences it is so ****ing funny.

Mainly redhalberds posts.

 

[Deoxyribonucleic_acid]

So I take it Mk isn't supposed to be played all offense like a lot of people say.

 

[Palpi]

He can be played in a completely offensive style, but being over aggresive gives you more oppurtunities to make mistakes and ultimately get punished for those mistakes.

Being very campy, baiting / (then) punishing approaches or playing gay is what people like emblem lord are explaining as being the true potential of a character. One that can perfectly camp almost every character in the game. So, in short people are explaining being aggressive high risk / high reward, or camping low risk / still high reward, but it will take longer and be boring for you and your opponent. Do what you are willing to do to win.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Join the club.

My record is my 4%, 4 stocks winning against my opponent's 17% on Kongo Falls. The stage was banned promptly afterwards.

On neutrals.

If you stop and think about what Gay actually means and read these sentences it is so ****ing funny.

Mainly redhalberds posts.

Lol, so tru.

He can be played in a completely offensive style, but being over aggresive gives you more oppurtunities to make mistakes and ultimately get punished for those mistakes.

Being very campy, baiting / (then) punishing approaches or playing gay is what people like emblem lord are explaining as being the true potential of a character. One that can perfectly camp almost every character in the game. So, in short people are explaining being aggressive high risk / high reward, or camping low risk / still high reward, but it will take longer and be boring for you and your opponent. Do what you are willing to do to win.

Not in every match-up, but in a number of match-ups, playing campy provides a very signifigant advantage. Marth especially so.

Part of what you gotta understand is MK can beat a ton of stuff on reaction, especially tornado, but also ftilt. If you wait till characters commit, they often simply have no options.