I'm not debating the ratio, I'm just correcting people / giving information.
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Meta Knight's Revenge: The Official Match-Up Thread *Wario* -> GO
- Thread starter OverLade
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MrEh
Smash Hero
Again, Bowser vs MK is LOL.
That being said, it's a full on spacing war. It's Bowser though, he's really not that hard. Just don't get grabbed and camp him hard.
That being said, it's a full on spacing war. It's Bowser though, he's really not that hard. Just don't get grabbed and camp him hard.
B!squick
Smash Master
Such as...? What?
I want to take one look back to MK vs. Marth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmwRomKtY-I
0:25
thats how you work vs. tornado!
2:22!
that how Up B outspaces MK tilts!
4:37!
again nado gets beaten, into kill!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTtjd4ozm_Y
1:41, do the ramin combo! its side b to nair first hit to usmash
2:50 RAMIN COMBO!
And it shows how to play vs. MK.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmwRomKtY-I
0:25
thats how you work vs. tornado!
2:22!
that how Up B outspaces MK tilts!
4:37!
again nado gets beaten, into kill!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTtjd4ozm_Y
1:41, do the ramin combo! its side b to nair first hit to usmash
2:50 RAMIN COMBO!
And it shows how to play vs. MK.
It says both videos are private lol.
I'm also fairly certain that Upb from Marth will not out space a proper tilt from MK. Not only that, but I'm also fairly certain that Marth can't do Side b to Nair to Usmash lol.
I'm also fairly certain that Upb from Marth will not out space a proper tilt from MK. Not only that, but I'm also fairly certain that Marth can't do Side b to Nair to Usmash lol.
Affinity
Smash Hero
Everything from saying Bowser has more range than MK (anything except Flamthrower that Bowser throws out will be a hurtbox as well as a hitbox, unlike MK's sword), to F-tilting tornado (that you'll only be able to hit if it's coming from far away), to his grab release options (you have to be able to grab MK first, which isn't easy at all if the MK doesn't suck).
I'll post more later when I have time, if necessary.
here you go:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244903
but at this videos I dont know the numbers, where mr-r up bs the nado, while beeing in it
zeldspazz
Smash Master
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2008
- Messages
- 3,432
Since you guys dont have a social thread, Ill post this here.
Hi! We have just written a stage discussion thread about what stages will benefit Zelda the most in certain character matchups, and our first discussion is about Metaknight. So it would be greatly appreciated if you guys came down and help fire up this new thread. Thanks!
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244916 heres the thread
Hi! We have just written a stage discussion thread about what stages will benefit Zelda the most in certain character matchups, and our first discussion is about Metaknight. So it would be greatly appreciated if you guys came down and help fire up this new thread. Thanks!
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244916 heres the thread
Affinity
Smash Hero
UpB out of Tornado is extremely difficult as Steel2nd said and requires come kind of crazy smash DI/LUCK. Theres no consistent way to pull it off. If you could then I might say Marth has a very legit matchup against MK, since Nado ***** Marth in general.
zeldspazz
Smash Master
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- Dec 29, 2008
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- 3,432
My bad, I thought it would be stickied >.>
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
Hello Meta Knights. :D
The Fox boards are re-discussing their Match-up vs. Meta Knight. We'd appreciate your input!
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244972
The Fox boards are re-discussing their Match-up vs. Meta Knight. We'd appreciate your input!
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=244972
MrEh
Smash Hero
lol, people were saying that? XD
Bowser does not have more range then MK people. Only exception might be his Fsmash, but the uses for Fsmash really depend on your ability to predict, so it's moot.
Ftilting the Nado is unreliable. Klawing the Nado on the other hand, consistently works. As well as just Fotresss OoS. ( I hate this though...)
Grab release options are legit, but it all depends if Bowser can get the grab. That being said, Bowser grabbing MK is difficult provided you know what you're doing. Just keep in mind it's still deadly, and shouldn't be dismissed just because of the difficulty of pulling it off. There are lots of tricks that can be used to land grabs, but most of those things are player specific mindgames, and really shouldn't be discussed here anyway. lol
In short, you win. Bowser sucks after all.
Umm, the MK definitely walked forward/into range after he tilted...I want to take one look back to MK vs. Marth:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmwRomKtY-I
0:25
thats how you work vs. tornado!
2:22!
that how Up B outspaces MK tilts!
4:37!
again nado gets beaten, into kill!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTtjd4ozm_Y
1:41, do the ramin combo! its side b to nair first hit to usmash
2:50 RAMIN COMBO!
And it shows how to play vs. MK.
1. Upbing out of Tornado is hard to do when the MK controls the tornado well. As explained earlier, you need to either get lucky or have some very good SDI at the Beginning to get out.
2. The Ftilt he did that was beat by Upb was not spaced well. Looking at the clip closer, you can see him reach quite a bit past Marth's foot.
When I get back on later, I'll explain some more stuff. That MK though... IDK man. I saw the first match or an earlier match on Smashville and the Marth put on 100+ damage before the MK hit him. In a high level match, I would question how valid he is with his character especially MK if that were to happen to him.
2. The Ftilt he did that was beat by Upb was not spaced well. Looking at the clip closer, you can see him reach quite a bit past Marth's foot.
When I get back on later, I'll explain some more stuff. That MK though... IDK man. I saw the first match or an earlier match on Smashville and the Marth put on 100+ damage before the MK hit him. In a high level match, I would question how valid he is with his character especially MK if that were to happen to him.
B!squick
Smash Master
Meta Knight is one of Bowser's best match ups with Meta Knight having only a slight advantage.
Staco stop your bull****.
That MK was horrid at the match and had 0 defense. It's MK's defense which ****s over Marth. Like it was said in the thread you made about it in Marth boards, posts like yours is what gives Europe a bad name. You can't show off a player if he's destroying an opponent that is no where near his skill level.
That MK was horrid at the match and had 0 defense. It's MK's defense which ****s over Marth. Like it was said in the thread you made about it in Marth boards, posts like yours is what gives Europe a bad name. You can't show off a player if he's destroying an opponent that is no where near his skill level.
ksizl4life
Smash Hero
so like has ROB already been rediscussed? Holy and NL are extremely good vs mk and make this matchup seem very hard. lets talk about it
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Not really, the standing problem is MK still destroys Marth when he approaches, far beyond the reverse. Since he safely outranges Marth (just barely, but still), Marth has no way to force an approach, and since MK beats marth when he approaches a lot worse then the reverse, the fundamental problem is still there.
Then you get to the fact that MK just outzones him to hell and back, and MK is able to kill a lot more safely (all Marth has that's a safe on block kill move is nair, and your ftilt beats it) and you've got the makings of a bad match-up.
Not unwinnable, Marth still has grab release shenanigans (Grab release -> shayair (nair) = amazing), and if he gets the early advantage in percents, he can make it difficult, but MK has the clear advantage here.
It's called a mix-up, you're not in hitstun long enough to do that.
Side-b to grab only becomes a true combo at crazy percents too, so nair is definitely not gonna be because it requires a jump too. From there, not gonna be in hitstun long enough to hit the ground and up-smash.
Yea, a mix-up, and probably a less reliable mix-up, but workable if you condition some responses.
Affinity
Smash Hero
Let me know when you all are done discussing Marth. I'll let discussion on him go as long as it needs to.
I fail to see how not really applies to my post, which was about Marth Up Bing out of Tornado. If you were referring to the part about Tornado what really makes the matchup bad, it is. MK will always have a zoning advantage, but Tornado beats 4/5 of Marths approaching options to begin with. Within realm of human ability the matchup would be **** close to even without tornado (not that it even matters because Metaknight HAS TORNADO), I was "just saying".
Also, Marth can force and approach in the only way MK can force and approach...being ahead in percentage/stock.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
It addressed the part about him having a legit match-up against MK if he can up-b out of the tornado, MK still has option-select against him with ftilt.
So, SDing out of tornado reliably WOULD help, don't get me wrong, it just wouldn't save marth from having a considerable disadvantage, the option-select with ftilt against his aerials.
And of course, there's the even ground advantage and the punishment game advantage.
But yea, I did reference to the fact that Marth can force MK to approach through (the whole part about "making it difficult if Marth gets the early lead"), so it's true.
So, it's better, but even reliably SDI'ing out of tornado doesn't save marth.
Meh, it's not worth the arguement. But if MK couldn't use Tornado in the matchup at all without losing the mixup unfavorably, that would make the matchup much better, since whenever marth is in the air tornado beats all of his safe options.
Sure he might be at a disadvantage, but it's not worth discussing since its not relevant anyway.
Sure he might be at a disadvantage, but it's not worth discussing since its not relevant anyway.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
It's worth talking about in case it happens, in case somebody ever manages to figure out a way to SDI out consistently.
But again, MK still maintaining option-select against Marth's air game (which is generally his best approach option) is gonna limit marth's ability to actually take advantage of the fact that there's no tornado.
Basically, it's definitely a soft counter, even without that.
TKD
Smash Lord
Marth can go even with MK. Don't get gimped. For Marth players: Remember that MK is one of the hardest match-ups to learn in the game.
Ohh let's discuss R.O.B.
That's 8/2 or 9/1 MK's favor. I can't decide which, it's so hard to tell! I'd call it 9/1 or 10/0, but maybe I haven't seen R.O.B. being played well enough.
Ohh let's discuss R.O.B.
That's 8/2 or 9/1 MK's favor. I can't decide which, it's so hard to tell! I'd call it 9/1 or 10/0, but maybe I haven't seen R.O.B. being played well enough.
ksizl4life
Smash Hero
B!squick
Smash Master
Just put Bowser and MK at 90/10 so I can feel really accomplished that I won an unwinnable match up.
-_-
Even is impossible. No, it's insanity. I'm sorry.
You know that even the top Marth's who are beating other top MK's in tourney know they lose the match, right?
MK's defense is why Marth can't win the match with any consistency. He can't solidly approach at all. All he has is baiting, and if he just has baiting then there is no way you can say this is even since baiting is not at all a reliable strat >_>
You often see MK's just attacking Marth regardless of MK's defensive advantage, M2K came over my house last week and we talked about his set with mikehaze. He said he knows that camping wrecks marth but he just can't help but attack because he just gets insanely bored otherwise.
Stop going off just what you see, you can clearly see MK's advantage by a simple moveset analysis. Also "don't get gimped"? MK's ledge drop nair is one of the many bane's of Marth's recovery. Not that that matters too much, as on-stage game matters way more.
clowsui
Smash Legend
ksizzle if you need to learn mk v rob you should probably try and find OS over aim sometime
he will tell you how rob loses 8-2...maybe even 9-1 lol
in other news i guess we just need some teh spamerer vs. top marth vid or something, i think he may be the only mk out there that is willing the camp the hell out of marth lol
he will tell you how rob loses 8-2...maybe even 9-1 lol
in other news i guess we just need some teh spamerer vs. top marth vid or something, i think he may be the only mk out there that is willing the camp the hell out of marth lol
Nic64
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2003
- Messages
- 1,725
Most Meta Knight's make their matchups out to be closer to even than they really are, then suddenly everyone gets honest all at the same time XD
Although this thread is pretty good when compared to how it COULD be
Agreed with Nic
I think the board may be too afraid of the community's response if they were more liberal with their ratios. There should definitely be a few more 7:3's imo.
I think the board may be too afraid of the community's response if they were more liberal with their ratios. There should definitely be a few more 7:3's imo.
TKD
Smash Lord
Yes, Overswarm probably knows about the R.O.B. match-up. Also, why should -I- have to play certain players to know match-up odds?
The reason I think Marth can go even with MK, is that his grab range is slightly bigger, he can punish moves that aren't grabs from shield, his damage output is OK and he can live long if he doesn't fall to edgeguarding. Both characters take a defensive stance which makes this one of Meta Knight's most boring match-ups in my opinion. Falco's probably more boring though.
Anyway I don't really see how Marth is countered by Meta Knight. At best it's 6/4 for MK IMO.
The reason I think Marth can go even with MK, is that his grab range is slightly bigger, he can punish moves that aren't grabs from shield, his damage output is OK and he can live long if he doesn't fall to edgeguarding. Both characters take a defensive stance which makes this one of Meta Knight's most boring match-ups in my opinion. Falco's probably more boring though.
Anyway I don't really see how Marth is countered by Meta Knight. At best it's 6/4 for MK IMO.
Nic64
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 6, 2003
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MK can work around Marth's defense a lot easier than Marth can work around MK's, and Marth can really struggle to get out of disadvantaged situations where as MK can always retreat or stall. When you look at Marth's strengths Meta Knight just kind of...circumvents nearly all of them. Marth can't really juggle, edge guard, zone, or otherwise maintain advantageous position against MK, how could that be any lower than 65:35?
Adding to what Nic said, it all comes down to which character can take control, maintain it, and do they have the tools to take it back quickly if they lose it?
The concept of Marth zoning MK completely goes out the window when you notice the range comparisons and MK's up b. He also can't even reliably camp with aerials since tornado rips right through it.
65:35 imo, though it could vary from 7/3 - 6/4.
The concept of Marth zoning MK completely goes out the window when you notice the range comparisons and MK's up b. He also can't even reliably camp with aerials since tornado rips right through it.
65:35 imo, though it could vary from 7/3 - 6/4.
ksizl4life
Smash Hero
Overswarm has never played the best robs right? just cuz hes good with him doesnt mean alot. when you guys lose to NL and holy's ROBs, im going to laugh. go to game unicon guys
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