Meta Knight

[SnowCold]

Nerfs i would give MK

Nado - transcedent priotirty and little range. Tis way it can get hit by anything, and will trade if a hitbox is not disjointed. also give it SDIability. Basically, nerf it to the point where it's only use is as a recovery move. Nado was pretty silly in brawl. MK was good as it was, then they gave him a broke ass move.

Shuttle-loop - no nerf. i think this move is fine. maybe the only thing is, give the loop less distance. like, make the loop shorter so it's harder to hit with.

dsmash - increase uncharged start up lag.

up-air - increase end lag. instead of it being 13 frames, something more like 23 - 25 frames.

i want mk to be good, but i don't want him to be OP.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Nerfs I would give MetaKnight:

Everything.

 

[t!MmY]

When was drill rush spamable?

October 2007. It was so good that it made the Mach Tornado look bad in comparison, which is probably why it got nerfed before the game's release.

 

[PixelChaos]

Out of sheer curiosity, how would the fanbase react if MK got a completely different moveset and was god tier again?

 

[Pazzo.]

Out of sheer curiosity, how would the fanbase react if MK got a completely different moveset and was god tier again?

Blasphemy and Chaos would be produced. No, seriously, I can imagine millions of fans blaming Sakurai for doing nothing with the game, then they all attack Namco-Bandai.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Keep all of his moves, but add a little end lag like how they managed to balance MK in SSF2.

 

[SmashShadow]

YES!
http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=32150&Moderated=All&facebook=true

 

[Ultinarok]

Nerfs: Take away transcendent priority on some of his moves, lower the Mach Tornado's priority, add a couple of extra frames to every attack and decrease the power of his aerials OR take away a jump or two so that he can't WoP so well.

 

[_R@bid_]

I don't know if he needs extra frames on EVERY attack- that seems like overkill. I'd focus more on taking off kill power on all his fast moves( shuttle loop+dsmash, in particular) so that he still keeps the feel of a super speedy comboer.
Also, make ftilt his jab.

 

[Ultinarok]

I don't know if he needs extra frames on EVERY attack- that seems like overkill. I'd focus more on taking off kill power on all his fast moves( shuttle loop+dsmash, in particular) so that he still keeps the feel of a super speedy comboer.
Also, make ftilt his jab.

I was referring that there should be like one additional frame before and after each move, so his slashes aren't moving at practically warp speed. Take away his overkill speed and priority and his moves don't necessarily need a power nerf.

 

[_R@bid_]

Two more frames wouldn't be so bad. I guess it's more a question of which direction you'd like Meta to go in- a bit more normalized, like your suggestions, or a speed demon without kill power, like mine.

 

[Ultinarok]

Two more frames wouldn't be so bad. I guess it's more a question of which direction you'd like Meta to go in- a bit more normalized, like your suggestions, or a speed demon without kill power, like mine.

I'm just worried that the "speed demon without power" will end up with another Sonic: so focused on his running speed gimmick that he can't actually KO anything, only in this case, attack speed into of running speed. I guess combos could compensate for that though.

Either way, a nerf is a nerf. As long as he's more balanced without losing his unique character, I'll be happy.

 

[_R@bid_]

Polarization is of course a concern, but I doubt he'd be anywhere as troublesome as Sonic when it comes to attempting to kill. Gimping, and, as you say, combos would compensate well. Just as long as he's not FASTER than he currently is, it should stay within the bounds of reason.

 

[M@v]

You know, my vision of mk in smash 4 would be him being just as good at recovery as he is now. You heard that right. Keep his broken recovery. Keep a lot of his move's speed as well.

But here's what you change: You get rid of the transcendent priority he has on almost all of his moves; only give it to 1 maybe 2 moves tops. Also, nerf the knockback on all his kill moves.

What does that do to mk? It makes him a character who's fast and can recover, but can't kill reliably without going for gimps/edgeguards. You force MK to play an aggro playstyle of always having to go for off stage kills, since he would have no good power options to kill with on the stage. These changes *should* make him a top/high tier character still, but not the god he is in brawl. He would still be edgeguard champ like he is in brawl, but he would be weak against characters who have strong ground games or are hard to knock off stage, like snake.

TL:DR Keep him fast, keep his godlike recovery, take away the transcendent priority on most of his moves, nerf his knockback. Forces him to play an edgeguard/offstage style to get kills.

 

[CHOMPY]

The biggest hurdle with Metaknight is the fact that he can easily gimp against characters than can barely get back on the stage. Metaknights Dair for example was a move if hit once or twice can send the character to an awkward position that they can't get back on the stage. That is probably the main reason why characters like Link, Ivysaur, Ganon, Lucas, Ness, Samus belonged on the low tier list. Characters, such as Sonic, Yoshi, Mario, Zelda, that had no priority would up belonging on the tier list, because of how popular Metaknight is with such high priority.

Metaknights Tornado had so much priority that it was able to go through pretty much anything, except for projectiles. The worst part of it all is the fact that it eats up your shield and when their shield is small, Metaknight can easily combo them without a problem.

If you noticed that every special Metaknight has was a recovery move, including his down B. Making him a difficult character to predict and gimp in general.

 

[NameChange]

They gave Pit an overhaul on his moveset so I'm confident Meta Knight will retrieve the same treatment.

 

[grizby2]

a lot of meta knights moves are simply way to fast. maybe make some of them have slower start up times, and make it so they don't have a ton of killing power. his f-smash was perfect, but his down smash was ridiculous because it had too much ko potential for how fas it was and offered him wayyy too much protection. I mostly hope the ko power is bought down.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

They gave Pit an overhaul on his moveset so I'm confident Meta Knight will retrieve the same treatment.

Pit got an overhaul because of his recent game, to keep him up to date. MK hasn't received anything new except for his giant tornado in KSSU, which would be a final smash at most.

 

[Xyro77]

I really hope MK is not in this game

or if he is

nerf the F out of him

 

[UnSaxon51]

Metaknight was my day 1 main in Brawl, but I eventually stopped using him because of how OP he was. Not broken, but clearly better than everyone else. I'm hoping I won't have to repeat that for Smash 4.

I think of all the suggestions I've seen so far, I like M@v's the best. You can't take away MK's recovery and speed; they're part of who he is.

 

[Z1GMA]

Little less knockback on Dsmash.
Much less initial/base Knockback on aerial up+b.
No Invi-frames on up+b.
Supernerf Whorenado.
Less gimping ability on Dair.
Overall not as Lightning Fast.

 

[t!MmY]

@Z1GMA:

So you just want Meta Knight to be a bad character.

 

[HarryTheChin]

He'll be back.

Yup.

 

[TheTuninator]

@Z1GMA:

So you just want Meta Knight to be a bad character.

Well, it'd be certainly interesting if he was, as we'd get to see how many people actually did just main MK because they like MK. He's certainly at risk of eating a huge nerf, especially since Sakurai doesn't want people to think that he favors characters from his franchises.

I'm OK with MK still being great at recovery, but does he really need to have a great recovery move in literally every one of his specials? M@V's proposal sounds good overall, though.

Speaking of MK and nerfs, what do we think the odds are of him not getting pretty much destroyed in SSB4? I can't see MK getting off with anything less than a very heavy nerfing, given both his extreme dominance of the competitive scene and how big a pain in the ass he is for low-level casuals who have to deal with their friends spamming his ridiculous specials.

 

[t!MmY]

I don't think bad characters are all that interesting. We already know that 90% of people who use Meta Knight in tournament use him because he's considered the best character in the game. There's no need to make him bad in order to figure that one out.

Let's hope the bad characters get buffed so that they're as fun and desirable to use as the good characters.

 

[TheTuninator]

Bad characters do need buffs, but at the same time Meta Knight really does need some nerfs. It's not realistic to expect that every character can or will be brought up to MK's level. I don't want him to be made unusable, but I sure as heck wouldn't mind him being significantly weaker this time around so we get some different characters at the higher levels of competitive play.

I'm particularly interested to see what they do with the Tornado, since that move is likely what the vast majority of the Smash fanbase knows and hates him for. How do we think they can retain it while making it less intensely frustrating?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I'm particularly interested to see what they do with the Tornado, since that move is likely what the vast majority of the Smash fanbase knows and hates him for. How do we think they can retain it while making it less intensely frustrating?

I think Balanced Brawl's solution to the tornado was pretty successful. People aren't supposed to be stuck in it and it shouldn't be near-impossible to knock him out of it, but it's a pretty decent approach tool and can be whipped out at unexpected moments, but is hardly one of his more useful attacks.

Also, on the past subject, I planned to main Meta Knight as soon as he was announced, unless Ridley was a character of course. Meta Knight is one of my favorite video game character purely because of his badassness level, so I was hyped for him. Turned out he was incredibly overpowered, and I couldn't play him without bad conscience or getting any satisfaction out of a victory, so I just went with C. Falcon again, so I guess I'm in the complete opposite corner than the people who only play him because he's the best of the best. I'm hoping for some well deserved nerfs, but I also hope they don't go too overboard, though it's admittedly hard to make a character like Meta Knight directly bad, he'd be mid-tier at minimum I guess.

 

[BaPr]

I go to the metaknight thread to see if anyone is hoping that metaknight makes it to the next game, but it is just people talking about nerfing him lol.

 

[Ulevo]

The main reason Meta Knight was so powerful was because he had multiple jumps and an absurd amount of dangerous recovery options in a floaty environment that Brawl provided on top of everything else he had. It made it too difficult to outplay a Meta Knight. If the gravity wasn't as light and his recovery options were much more limited, and he existed in a realm where he could be combo'd, I don't think he would have been nearly as bad.

That said, I am looking forward to him being in the next game. He was definitely one of my more favourite Brawl characters despite his power relative to the rest of the cast.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I go to the metaknight thread to see if anyone is hoping that metaknight makes it to the next game, but it is just people talking about nerfing him lol.

Meta Knight is more or less guaranteed to make it into the next game. They'd have to cut over half of the Brawl roster before they'd reach cuts like Meta Knight, Diddy Kong and Dedede.

 

[Funkmasterblitz]

Make MK more buffs lol.

 

[BaPr]

Make MK more buffs lol.

Lol, that would bring so much hate to Smash 4

 

[t!MmY]

Lol, that would bring so much hate to Smash 4

I feel like Meta Knight could use some buffs. Specifically, his U-smash is pretty bad and the slash on his Dimensional Cape could be stronger. This would, of course, be in addition to nerfs to his overpowered attacks (Mach Tornado, the Dimensional Cape glitch, etc), thus we reach a better balance for Meta Knight without making him subpar.

 

[joshua hunnel]

this is just my opinion but they shouldn't make meta knight worse but they should make all the other characters better to match meta knight

 

[joshua hunnel]

and fix some of meta knights weaknesses

 

[BaPr]

I feel like Meta Knight could use some buffs. Specifically, his U-smash is pretty bad and the slash on his Dimensional Cape could be stronger. This would, of course, be in addition to nerfs to his overpowered attacks (Mach Tornado, the Dimensional Cape glitch, etc), thus we reach a better balance for Meta Knight without making him subpar.

I really liked his upB, because it attacks instantly and is a really good kill move. But I rarely used it as a recovery unless I am far left or right of the stage and not trying to recover upwards.

this is just my opinion but they shouldn't make meta knight worse but they should make all the other characters better to match meta knight

and fix some of meta knights weaknesses

Welcome to Smashboards and please don't double post, just edit your first post.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

and fix some of meta knights weaknesses

Meta-Knight has weaknesses?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

and fix some of meta knights weaknesses

Which would be....?

 

[FalKoopa]

Meta-Knight has weaknesses?

Which would be....?

Susceptibility of getting banned.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

Susceptibility of getting banned.

See? Meta Knight's disadvantage found! He doesn't need to be banned anymore!

oh wait......