Meta Knight

[Pheta Ray]

Depends. MK is such a popular character, even outside of the competitive community. If I were marketing this product I would wait until later on in the development stage to ensure the hype stays alive. Releasing the character too soon might cause the hype to cool down, releasing the character too late might not be enough to boost sales.

In my opinion it just all depends on when the release date for the game is; good observation, dude.

 

[Hakkat]

For Meta Knight's dash, I would like to see him even faster with a sprinting animation, rather than a flying one. It would just feel more like Meta Knight. I would also like to see a taunt where he could possibly turn his back to the camera with taking off his mask. That would be pretty cool. As for his actual moveset, I guess nerfed specials, and maybe give him a different neutral-b and make Mach Tornado his final smash, but make it a whole lot more epic, like the double red Mach Tornado from Super Star Ultra.

 

[Pheta Ray]

I would also like to see a taunt where he could possibly turn his back to the camera with taking off his mask. That would be pretty cool.

New taunt! New taunt! :D

 

[Hakkat]

New taunt! New taunt! :D

Thanks for supporting the idea

I think it would be cool if he said something like "come back when you can put up a fight" but in a high-pitched voice like Kirby's. I always assumed he had a voice modifier in his mask.

 

[Pheta Ray]

Hmm, awfully long taunt... How about something shorter, like a "Hmmph"?

 

[Hakkat]

Hmm, awfully long taunt... How about something shorter, like a "Hmmph"?

this is much better xD

 

[Niko Mar]

For Meta Knight's dash, I would like to see him even faster with a sprinting animation, rather than a flying one. It would just feel more like Meta Knight. I would also like to see a taunt where he could possibly turn his back to the camera with taking off his mask. That would be pretty cool. As for his actual moveset, I guess nerfed specials, and maybe give him a different neutral-b and make Mach Tornado his final smash, but make it a whole lot more epic, like the double red Mach Tornado from Super Star Ultra.

I always thought the sword beam would be a cool B move. And yeah, that final smash idea would be really awesome .

 

[Pheta Ray]

Just curious, why are we nerfing Meta Knight instead of buffing the rest of the cast?

 

[Niko Mar]

Just curious, why are we nerfing Meta Knight instead of buffing the rest of the cast?

Personally, I think it'd be easier to cool him down slightly and buff some of the weaker characters than literally having to buff everyone else closer to his level. The main problem with buffing the rest of the cast is you run the risk of creating a new "God tier" character that might be worse than Meta was claimed to be.

 

[Pheta Ray]

I get what you're saying. Like, I know DK got a buff from his Melee counterpart to Brawl. I'm saying buff other characters, but don't call for people to nerf Meta Knight all the way down to mid-tier (I'm not calling you out, I'm being general here). The way he plays is naturally top-tier material.

 

[Niko Mar]

I get what you're saying. Like, I know DK got a buff from his Melee counterpart to Brawl. I'm saying buff other characters, but don't call for people to nerf Meta Knight all the way down to mid-tier (I'm not calling you out, I'm being general here). The way he plays is naturally top-tier material.

Yeah, I don't agree with the "drastically nerfing him" thing that a lot of people want either. I just think a tweak here and there can make him a lot more manageable for others (just stuff like his priority and whatever). I never had a problem with Meta Knight, he's just as easy to beat as some of the other cast members to me.

 

[Louie G.]

I don't really want Meta Knight nerfed too much. In fact, I like Meta Knight's fast swordsmanship, godly recovery, and overall character. He's really good, but it adds to his originality and charm.
Of course, a non-infinite jab would be nice. We could start from there.

 

[Pheta Ray]

a non-infinite jab

Please fix, please please fix. His Project M jab was better, and I don't even play Project M!

(just stuff like his priority and whatever)

If they fix some of his priority issues, I think that itself would be plenty of a nerf. Like you can interrupt Nado with something other than Dolphin Slash or every character's Dair. Shuttle Loop, however... I honestly think we should keep Shuttle Loop as it is. I know it's basically broken tier, but it's so good and so iconic. Changing it would be outrageous.

he's just as easy to beat as some of the other cast members to me.

Thank you for being the good kid on SmashBoards, not the kid who complains about Meta Knight being too hard to beat.

 

[Chandeelure]

*Perfect Metaknight for SM4SH!
-Nerf the speed of up air.
-Nerf a lot in knockback his down smash and up b.
-Mach Tornado needs to be slower and with more ending lag.
-Buff in knockback forward smash,up smash,side b and dimensional cape slash.
-Make him lighter in weight.
-

 

[Pheta Ray]

*Perfect Metaknight for SM4SH!
-Nerf the speed of up air.
-Nerf a lot in knockback his down smash and up b.
-Mach Tornado needs to be slower and with more ending lag.
-Buff in knockback forward smash,up smash,side b and dimensional cape slash.
-Make him lighter in weight.
-

-Speed of Uair goes from 13 frames to 28 frames (sounds okay?)
-Dsmash now kills at 150%, GSL kills at 130%, ASL kills at 110%
-Nado now has a start-up of 22 frames (instead of 11 frames)
-Fsmash now kills at 80%, Usmash kills at 250% (), Side B kills at 200%, Cape kills at 200%
-Meta Knight is now killable at 65%!



I think the only issue I'd have here is his weight. He's light enough as is.

(No, I'm not making fun of you. I'm telling you what I would put if I designed the game based on your thoughts)

 

[Niko Mar]

My rendition of Smash Wii U/3DS Meta Knight:
-New B move
+ sword beam
- charges over time (similar to ROB and Wario)
- full damage when Meta Knight's sword is glowing
- About the size of Meta Knight and moves at a swift pace (faster than Meta can run)
- Takes less time to charge fully than ROB's, but isn't as powerful
- In air, it is directed diagonally downwards, and moves Meta Knight back slightly after use
- has very slight lag afterwards (in air, this is included in the "moves Meta back slightly" thing)
- Possibility: can only be used once in air (maybe not needed since it needs to charge)

- Mach Tornado moved to final smash (see Hakkat's idea above)

- Spammable moves
+ Shuttle Loop can't be repeated instantly when landing (see Project M version)
+ Make down-smash slightly slower (at least not ridiculously fast)

- New stuff for A jab
+ don't make infinite (honestly more annoying for the user than the opponent)
+ or change it completely

So, to sum this up, Meta Knight basically gets a whole new move while only getting slightly nerfed. He loses the B-nado that everyone hates, but also gains a new tool that would make him more fun to use. His new Final Smash can be a lot more hype too, and is an upgrade from Brawl.

 

[Pheta Ray]

Meta Knight's Nado can be really abused, and even stale it does huge amounts of damage. I'm agreeing that a nerf would be nice here.

 

[Hakkat]

My rendition of Smash Wii U/3DS Meta Knight:
-New B move
+ sword beam
- charges over time (similar to ROB and Wario)
- full damage when Meta Knight's sword is glowing
- About the size of Meta Knight and moves at a swift pace (faster than Meta can run)
- Takes less time to charge fully than ROB's, but isn't as powerful
- In air, it is directed diagonally downwards, and moves Meta Knight back slightly after use
- has very slight lag afterwards (in air, this is included in the "moves Meta back slightly" thing)
- Possibility: can only be used once in air (maybe not needed since it needs to charge)

- Mach Tornado moved to final smash (see Hakkat's idea above)

- Spammable moves
+ Shuttle Loop can't be repeated instantly when landing (see Project M version)
+ Make down-smash slightly slower (at least not ridiculously fast)

- New stuff for A jab
+ don't make infinite (honestly more annoying for the user than the opponent)
+ or change it completely

So, to sum this up, Meta Knight basically gets a whole new move while only getting slightly nerfed. He loses the B-nado that everyone hates, but also gains a new tool that would make him more fun to use. His new Final Smash can be a lot more hype too, and is an upgrade from Brawl.

I like this! For the Final Smash he should do exactly what he does in KSSU, except maybe have less startup time on the Dual-Tornado. Kinda like how Lucario does his Final Smash. I like the sword beam a lot! I'm still all for the running animation instead of the flying animation though. I loved his Dair from Project M. If anyone hasn't seen it, check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoEeRtANciE I like the Bair from P:M too.

 

[Niko Mar]

I like this! For the Final Smash he should do exactly what he does in KSSU, except maybe have less startup time on the Dual-Tornado. Kinda like how Lucario does his Final Smash. I like the sword beam a lot! I'm still all for the running animation instead of the flying animation though. I loved his Dair from Project M. If anyone hasn't seen it, check out this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CoEeRtANciE I like the Bair from P:M too.

Thanks man, and yeah I love his Dair in Project M too. It's actually more iconic for him to have that since it's been in like all the games lol.

 

[Hakkat]

Thanks man, and yeah I love his Dair in Project M too. It's actually more iconic for him to have that since it's been in like all the games lol.

no problem But I do remember reading in the P:M character bio for MK that they chose the Dair because it was more iconic (and awesome). :D I wish Nintendo would take some ideas from Project M, and maybe give MK an alternate costume of him with a high-pitched voice and no mask. I would love to play as him like that xD

Overall though, I hope they balance MK and make him require a little more skill than he did in Brawl (I hope he has more advanced techniques, etc)

 

[Pheta Ray]

If Smash 4 is a rehash of Project M, I really see no reason to buy it.

I'd rather it be a separate, entirely new game with new physics and new ways of spacing, juggling, airdodging, etc.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Here's a drawing that I did up, just for the humor of it.

Will Meta Knight finally meet his match with Rosalina's playable inclusion?

 

[Superyoshiom]

Sakurai keeps talking about Donkey Kong and Bowser being so powerful, and he's forgetting the elephant in the room. I don't care if he's the last veteran revealed, I want a substantial nerf.

 

[Pheta Ray]

Sakurai most likely knows about the Meta Knight situation. But his response to it is going to be: "Will casuals notice if I give Meta Knight a nerf?" There's also the thought about him even including Meta Knight at all. Since we know Sakurai hates the competitive community, I unfortunately expect a nerf so large MK won't even be the same character.

 

[CombatScouter]

Sakurai most likely knows about the Meta Knight situation. But his response to it is going to be: "Will casuals notice if I give Meta Knight a nerf?" There's also the thought about him even including Meta Knight at all. Since we know Sakurai hates the competitive community, I unfortunately expect a nerf so large MK won't even be the same character.

While I don't believe Sakurai hates the competitive community, I am afraid of a ridiculous nerf; one the size of 64 to Melee Kirby would be terrible. We have to remember that there are more people helping with the balancing this time though, so it might not be too bad.

 

[Ultinarok]

Truth be told, I really like Meta Knight. I like his unique playstyle, his godly fast moves, and his specials. But he needs a serious rebalancing. All this talk of reduced knockback and lack of transcendent priority seems like a good solution.

 

[New_Dumal]

Changing a little the subject :Did you think that D3 confirmation means MK being secret? I want see him destroying the roster...I want it so bad and now...maybe just with the game release.

 

[Pheta Ray]

It's entirely possible for Sakurai to make Meta Knight a secret character. Like, he doesn't reveal Meta Knight at all and it turns out he's an unlockable in the game. So it'd be like Sakurai revealing 39 characters and having Meta Knight be the 40th.

 

[nat pagle]

A. He needs a recovery nerf. Having two glides puts MK ridiculously far ahead of the rest of the crowd in terms of recovery. Not to mention he's blessed with multi-jump and three other recovery specials along with his unstoppable moveset.

B. More KO strength, less priority and attack speed. His attacks come out at blazing frame speeds and have more priority than most of the cast. IMO his aerials need the most nerfing since they have so much range and can be used in quick succession.

C. Most of the roster does not need a buff, it's the two extremes that need to be balanced closer to the median. For example, MK does not need his absurd level of advantage (almost no weaknesses to speak of) and Ganon does not need his absurd level of disadvantage. Bad characters need to have what makes them bad taken care of to an extent and good characters don't need to be gifted unnecessary strengths. Not all characters need a great recovery, but punishing already weak characters with no survivability ruins the roster.


Let's just hope Namco Bandai bashes some sense into the roster this time around. I don't care if there's an A-D tier list, but having an S all the way down to F is atrocious. Last place should not have the disadvantage against almost every other character.

 

[Pheta Ray]

"Having two Shuttle Loops"

I think you mean two glides.

 

[nat pagle]

"Having two Shuttle Loops"

I think you mean two glides.

Yes, thanks for the correction.

 

[victinivcreate1]

IMO, just make all of MK's moves 2 frames slower, get rid of that transcendent priority, and weaken dsmash a little bit.

With all of his attack sbeing 2 frames slower, he will be much more mangeable. For example:
Dsmash-7 frames
Up air-4 frames
Nair-5 frames
Shuttle Loop-10 frames
Mach Tornado-14 frames
Dtilt-5 frames
Ftilt-6 frames
Fair-8 frames

MK's most commonly used moves are slower.

Oh yeah, his sword is tiny. Why is he outranging Marth, and Marth has like a 3 foot sword? Shorten the range please.

 

[Pheta Ray]

Have you seen the hitbox data on his Dtilt? It outranges Marth by pixels, but it outranges Marth's nevertheless!

 

[ZmashMazter]

Meta Knight would be a great addition to SSB4 but if they focused a little more on speed, and a little less on attack, in brawl, when they focused on both in brawl, he seemed a little OP. I think that his up B should be replaced with a new type of fly move( maybe an upper cut into the air, almost like Mario's, but smoother. and allows further jumping after(dealing little damage) Make his combos a little weaker, and allow his down B attack allow him to teleport a little ways almost like sheiks or Zelda's( That's just what I would like ) I also feel as if he could have a little more diverse move set, not just sword, sword, sword, fly, fly, fly)

 

[Commander]

None of you know what the physics or gameplay of smash 4 is going to be like so you really shouldn't be talking of nerfs. For Project M Meta Knight's specials were nerfed, but everything else had to be buffed so that he wouldn't be garbage tier.

 

[nat pagle]

Have you seen the hitbox data on his Dtilt? It outranges Marth by pixels, but it outranges Marth's nevertheless!

Outrageous.

None of you know what the physics or gameplay of smash 4 is going to be like so you really shouldn't be talking of nerfs. For Project M Meta Knight's specials were nerfed, but everything else had to be buffed so that he wouldn't be garbage tier.

http://smashboards.com/threads/metaknights-frame-data-ledge-options-added.205614/

In any kind of physics engine, having multiple moves that can come out in under 5 frames with his range and speed is insane. Not to mention multi-jump+double glide+ 3 other recoveries.

 

[Commander]

http://smashboards.com/threads/metaknights-frame-data-ledge-options-added.205614/

In any kind of physics engine, having multiple moves that can come out in under 5 frames with his range and speed is insane. Not to mention multi-jump+double glide+ 3 other recoveries.

Fox and Falco have multiple incredibly fast moves, most notably their reflectors which are one frame attacks. Most of the cast have moves that come out in only a few frames. What makes MetaKnight so far above the rest of the Brawl cast isn't him having god like powers it is, like M2K said, him being "the only Melee character in the game". Every single character in Brawl plays a slower defensive game, except him. If everyone had the capabilities to be aggressive, which comes with a faster game design to begin with, he wouldn't be as dominant as he is now and P:M shows that, where he isn't a challenge to the Melee top tiers.

 

[Pheta Ray]

Yeah, but as we all know, Smash 4 isn't going to be Melee and it isn't going to be Project M. If Meta Knight even gets back in to Smash 4, if they speed him up and keep his moveset the same everything as in Brawl, he's going to be an issue no matter how fast or slow the game is. I love Meta Knight, his speed and his frame data and everything. He's an incredible character.

But if the game is going to be more balanced towards the A-D range than a SS-F range, I have to concede to the idea that Meta Knight needs to be slowed down. Porting Meta Knight directly from Brawl to Smash 4, where he now has new room to run train on everyone (whether or not they received buffs), would be the equivalent of porting Seth from SSF4:AE and giving him Zangief's Stamina and Stun. If you get my meaning.

 

[Commander]

Yeah, but as we all know, Smash 4 isn't going to be Melee and it isn't going to be Project M. If Meta Knight even gets back in to Smash 4, if they speed him up and keep his moveset the same everything as in Brawl, he's going to be an issue no matter how fast or slow the game is. I love Meta Knight, his speed and his frame data and everything. He's an incredible character.

But if the game is going to be more balanced towards the A-D range than a SS-F range, I have to concede to the idea that Meta Knight needs to be slowed down. Porting Meta Knight directly from Brawl to Smash 4, where he now has new room to run train on everyone (whether or not they received buffs), would be the equivalent of porting Seth from SSF4:AE and giving him Zangief's Stamina and Stun. If you get my meaning.

Or just speed every one else up.

 

[Pheta Ray]

We've been saying that for a majority of this thread.