Meta Knight

[Kimidori]

He's not going to be nerfed hard, that's for sure.

There's just about no way to nerf him super hard because of how he is... If anything other characters should be buffed.

I will use MK no matter what next game though because I love the character XD

 

[Revven]

There's plenty of ways to address Meta Knight without hitting him too hard. Unfortunately, part of the reason MK is so good is because of the engine changes Sakurai decided to make in Brawl.

Non-tumble DI being gone is what really makes his tornado powerful (along with some of his other stupid things in the game). It's not just because of its hitboxes or its damage or whatever, it's because you literally can't DI the dumb thing.

Things like that. They don't have to touch him much at all if they just fix **** like that. So characters can actually get out of his lame moves.

But knowing Sakurai and hearing all the backlash, I'm certain they won't change the engine much at all and instead focus on addressing the character. He'll probably take cues from Kirby's Return to Dreamland and just give him that grounded spin slash from the game instead. And non-tumble DI and such will somehow still not be in the game despite being in Melee. Awesome.

 

[Ussi]

I hope people learn how to ban a character in the next smash. Or we get patches...

 

[t!MmY]

I hope people learn how to ban characters before the next Smash comes out. See Sirlin's 'What Should Be Banned?' But to sum it up, a character shouldn't be banned because it's 'too good', but only if it breaks the game; literally breaks the game. The only exception to this would be if the character completely destroys the balance of an otherwise awesome game and the competitive community comes together and bans the obviously unbalanced character from competitive play for the good of all.

I'm against any patches unless it is to fix a big problem in the programming, but even then I feel that if such a patch is necessary that the company has not done their job in producing the game properly. I wouldn't expect this from a company as good as Nintendo/SORA.

 

[Claire Diviner]

I hope people learn how to ban characters before the next Smash comes out.

That's virtually impossible, because a character needs to be tested first, and unless there's some way to play the game before it's released (via demos), there's no way to tell if a character is too overpowered for competitive play.

But to sum it up, a character shouldn't be banned because it's 'too good', but only if it breaks the game; literally breaks the game. The only exception to this would be if the character completely destroys the balance of an otherwise awesome game and the competitive community comes together and bans the obviously unbalanced character from competitive play for the good of all.

You didn't need the "The only exception to this would be" part, as it should be used as a counter-statement to the "breaks the game portion". That said, it's rather obvious that blatantly broken characters will be banned if it comes to this. So far, however, there's no character in a Smash Bros. game that is blatantly broken, even Meta Knight, as good as he is.

I'm against any patches unless it is to fix a big problem in the programming, but even then I feel that if such a patch is necessary that the company has not done their job in producing the game properly. I wouldn't expect this from a company as good as Nintendo/SORA.

Nintendo did release a patch for Mario Kart 7, and has released a patch channel for Skyward Sword, so it's apparent that not even Nintendo is perfect, and given the generation of games we're entering now, and Nintendo finally coming around into the realm of DLC and patches themselves, it will come as no surprise if they release any patches or updates for Smash 4, whether it's to fix any glitches or exploits, or to balance characters. While updates are not to be highly expected from Nintendo, one should not be surprised if they do release an update at this point.

 

[gothrax]

You know when i first here'd metanight was gonna be in brawl
I assumed he'd play.... well not like he did...
Specifically i thought he'd be heavier? Considering that he's wearing armor.
and he has a "relatively big" sword so i assumed he'd also be like STRONG?

i guess what i mean is from RPG terms i thought he'd play more like a night then a rogue.

 

[Shadow Blitz]

Mach tornado needs more priority, warlock punch goes through it and that move is supposed to be baaadddd

 

[BlueXenon]

I dont think meta knight is broken in brawl, the problem is a lot of other characters were made terribly. If ssb4 is balanced correctly and they leave meta knight just as powerful as he is in brawl, MK would not be by far the best character in the game.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I dont think meta knight is broken in brawl, the problem is a lot of other characters were made terribly. If ssb4 is balanced correctly and they leave meta knight just as powerful as he is in brawl, MK would not be by far the best character in the game.

If Smash 4's physics are different than Brawl's, something like that could happen. But at the same time, it could lead to Meta Knight's downfall (just like with Captain Falcon).

 

[t!MmY]

That's virtually impossible, because a character needs to be tested first...

I said that I hope people would 'learn how to ban characters' before SSB4 came out, not 'ban characters' before the game came out.

 

[Bowserlick]

I dont think meta knight is broken in brawl, the problem is a lot of other characters were made terribly. If ssb4 is balanced correctly and they leave meta knight just as powerful as he is in brawl, MK would not be by far the best character in the game.

I think the problem is that not all characters actually fit the role they were intended to play. Bowser is suppose to be a tank, but his lack of super armor holds him back from filling his position accurately. Metaknight is suppose to play like rogue; sneaky and good at racking the percentages, although runs into a bit of a problem with landing the killing blow. However, Metaknight does not have that weakness and his shuttle loop and tornado are over-powered and do more than they should.

Making sure all the characters have a broken move that can become an infinite or stall the game is just not fun. Than it is just a race to see who can deploy the weapon first. Leave that game to items.

 

[Claire Diviner]

I said that I hope people would 'learn how to ban characters' before SSB4 came out, not 'ban characters' before the game came out.

Frankly, there's hardly a difference, unless you mean to say that by the time Smash 4 is released, they'll already know what to look for in a character to make sure they're banned before creating the first tier list.

 

[DarkSouls]

Frankly, there's hardly a difference, unless you mean to say that by the time Smash 4 is released, they'll already know what to look for in a character to make sure they're banned before creating the first tier list.

He's saying that he hopes that the Smash Community will learn how to ban a character, an obvious reference to our favorite ridiculously broken puff ball there is so much debate over...

Jigglypuff.

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

For Meta Knight, I think that most of his moves shouldn't last as long as they do; remove some of the knockback on some his moves; make him a tad bit slower and remove the hitstun on his moves.
Also, Jigglypuff is fine.(except she sucks in Brawl and Rest is way too OP in Melee)

 

[t!MmY]

Au contraire, Jhonnykiller45.
I feel that Meta Knight should have more KnockBack on some of his moves, be faster, and have more HitStun on his moves.

Brawl is fairly low-key in the 'reward' aspect of 'risk vs reward'. Buffing everyone, including Meta Knight, would make the game play much more exciting and rewarding. The reason why Meta Knight is 'good' and people use him often is because he's closer to this type of play than other characters.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Meta Knight should not be buffed; he's good enough as is. Everyone else should receive buffs. Of course, this is only in response to Brawl's slow and floaty physics. As for Smash 4, there's no telling what the physics for that game will be like, so Meta Knight receiving a buff could be necessary, or for all we know, he may need a nerf. It all depends on how Smash 4 plays.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Meta Knight should not be buffed; he's good enough as is. Everyone else should receive buffs. Of course, this is only in response to Brawl's slow and floaty physics. As for Smash 4, there's no telling what the physics for that game will be like, so Meta Knight receiving a buff could be necessary, or for all we know, he may need a nerf. It all depends on how Smash 4 plays.

Pretty much this. The main thing that'll pretty much affect Meta Knight's potential is the game physics itself.

 

[DarkSouls]

On the physics engine subject, have their been any issues with integrating Meta Knight into Project M (If they've even attempted it yet)? It might shed some light on how a different physics system can radically change the abilities of a character, and it might reveal which qualities of Meta are powerful no matter the environment.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Here are a couple of videos that show Meta Knight in P:M, granted they're on the old side:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25Kwg4LG5s8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uAiIggDSAE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0blxDYFBWWw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdZsoaS0H7g

You'll notice several things: After he's finished gliding, he is put into a Helpless State. His Shuttle Loop does not initiate a glide and immediately puts him in a Helpless State. His Drill Rush does not cause him to hop up in a backwards motion at the end of the animation. His Interdimensional Cape is now a reliably powerful killer. Of course, these videos are about a year old, so they could have made changes to those since then, but it does go to show that Meta Knight can still be balanced, and yet still be a good character when in the right hands.

 

[Diddy Kong]

So, MetaKnight needs no nerfing, everyone needs to be MetaKnight?

 

[Jhonnykiller45]

So, MetaKnight needs no nerfing, everyone needs to be MetaKnight?

Sakurai is making Super Smash Bros. 4, not Brawl 2, silly.

Also, if anyone thinks that Meta Knight should be buffed, you're sick. Not even getting struck by this would help your poor, confused mind.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

So, MetaKnight needs no nerfing, everyone needs to be MetaKnight?

I think you missed the point of the videos. They're basically showing what Meta Knight would have to deal with if he's made to be more balanced. Notice how Meta Knight only won against Samus? Normally, Meta Knight has an advantage against nearly every fighter in Brawl.

 

[SmashShadow]

I think they should change his down special seeing as his final smash is a glorified version of it. Either that or change his final smash. Meta knight had several projectile attacks in his games that didn't get utilized.

 

[t!MmY]

As for Smash 4, there's no telling what the physics for that game will be like, so Meta Knight receiving a buff could be necessary, or for all we know, he may need a nerf. It all depends on how Smash 4 plays.

I wouldn't bother trying to base my buffs/nerfs on undisclosed game physics that leave me in the dark guessing. It's much easier to base it on the most recent build of the game (Brawl) when making comparisons.

From the remarks of players and spectators over the years, it seems like Brawl's gameplay mechanics/physics are just a little underwhelming, generally speaking. I don't necessarily share that opinion, but if we were to look at it from that perspective we can say that if Brawl in is entirety is 'slow' and 'floaty' and 'overly defensive' then we can conclude that also applies to Meta Knight as there is no exception made for him and he is part of Brawl.

Granted, Meta Knight is a faster, more aggressive character that is seen and played often in Brawl. With this in mind we can say that he is more like the gameplay that those players and spectators enjoy more, according to their stance. This would indicate to me that Meta Knight may possibly need buffs in this regard; buffs to speed that is to say, but still trying to achieve an overall balance with his relation to the other characters. (the Project: M videos were a good example of speed/combo buffs for Meta Knight that didn't result in an overly-powerful character)

Even if Smash 4 ended up being 'Brawl 2', I still see instances where Meta Knight could receive buffs. His Dimensional Cape, for instance, would need a stronger slash. His U-smash could also use a buff in some way to make it more useful. These buffs of course would be in addition to any necessary nerfs (specifically Mach Tornado) which would then result in an overall more balanced character.

This is why I said that I wouldn't mind seeing buffs for Meta Knight. Buffs are intrinsic to balancing MK as we know him, but people hear 'buffs' and 'Meta Knight' and jump to the conclusion that he automatically becomes Over-Powered.

 

[Lukingordex]

I think they should change his down special seeing as his final smash is a glorified version of it. Either that or change his final smash. Meta knight had several projectile attacks in his games that didn't get utilized.

Meta Knight is already Meta Knight,do you want a "god" on this game?

 

[SmashShadow]

How would that make him a god? By replacing one of his abusable attacks or by making his final smash be a little more creative.

 

[Lukingordex]

Let me quote again:

Meta knight had several projectile attacks in his games that didn't get utilized.

Now you understand?

 

[Claire Diviner]

Yeah, Meta Knight's already a menace without projectiles. To give him a projectile option will just bring him from God Tier to downright Troll Tier.

 

[Lukingordex]

More like ban tier.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

As far as new players go (And some old) they don't understand game mechanics. They see something they don't like and default to remedy the problem with the most simple ill-thought solution. Sure, MetaKnight is powerful, but that doesn't mean he's unbeatable. Unfortunately he does have a monopoly on the majority of the cast but that is only if you are playing in a tournament relevant setting. And for the record, MK was even more powerful during the E For All demo in 2007. His Drill Rush was nerfed significantly. Less hits and less knock back.

http://www.ign.com/videos/2007/10/14/smash-bros-brawl-wii-more-meta-knight-ship-off-screen-hd

 

[SmashShadow]

Fine. I understand what you're saying about him having a projectile option being a little much. Still i don't see why him having one as his final smash would be a problem if he gets nerfed like he almost undoubtably will. Comparing his final smash to falco, who is also very high tier, falco's is far better even if it's just a copy of fox/wolf's. IMO just because he is a good character doesn't mean he should have a sucky final smash that is like I said way too similar to his down special.

 

[Deleted member]

Dimensional Cape is him teleporting and if the attack button is held, a surprise attack that follows where he teleports.

Galaxia Darkness is him trapping his enemy in a realm of darkness using his cape, then a super slash that hits near everyone, whether they be friend of foe.

Kind of bigger difference than say, Mario's Final Smash compared to his Fireballs (Mario Finale is just a suped up Fireball), or Samus' (Zero Laser is a suped up version of Charge Shot).

 

[Mr. Johan]

If MK's original design is not an available costume in the next Smash, I'll be sad:

BADASS.

 

[Deleted member]

Wait, Meta Knight was originally a samurai with butterfly wings?

The more you know....

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I'm sorry, but that design's wings... I can't take it seriously.

 

[jigglover]

I love it how on most veteran threads it's about how to make the character better, and on this one it's how to make him worse! :D

 

[Robert of Normandy]

If MK's original design is not an available costume in the next Smash, I'll be sad:

And he still looks badass somehow.

 

[infiniteV115]

Lol no he doesn't
Look at his gloves and his shoes

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Lol no he doesn't
Look at his gloves and his shoes

They're yellow/golden. So what? The only thing I don't think works is his sword.

 

[Ove]

He looks like a butterfly.