Meta Knight Q&A Thread

[robnking]

I asked this question on another thread but I'm a ask it again because no one has replied to it yet. But I can. Prettty much everything with mk from techniques, spacing, to comboing, but one technique I just can't seem to get down is mk uaerial to mach tornado star ko. Does anyone have any videos or good words of advice for me to help me master this??

 

[Player-4]

I asked this question on another thread but I'm a ask it again because no one has replied to it yet. But I can. Prettty much everything with mk from techniques, spacing, to comboing, but one technique I just can't seem to get down is mk uaerial to mach tornado star ko. Does anyone have any videos or good words of advice for me to help me master this??

Lol you have to wait for a reply, don't just ask the same question over again if you don't get an immediate answer.

But to answer your question, doing the Uair string to Nado isn't that simple. You have to start high and be in control of MK, you need to read their DI and do rising Up airs then finish it off with Nado. It really just takes practice. The best thing I can tell you to do is go into training mode, set Snake on the top platform up Battlefield at about 15% and just do rising Uairs to Nado until you get it down.

 

[robnking]

Thanks player 4 do you know of any good videos or matches to watch? And if I did a F tilt, d tilt, d throw, dash attack, up tilt, to upair string wuld it be possible to star ko them with mach tornado off that combo with low %?? (One of my fav combos by the way)

 

[Player-4]

Thanks player 4 do you know of any good videos or matches to watch? And if I did a F tilt, d tilt, d throw, dash attack, up tilt, to upair string wuld it be possible to star ko them with mach tornado off that combo with low %?? (One of my fav combos by the way)

Even though I've seen the Uair string plenty of times I don't know specific videos. Btw who are you pulling that combo off on? That should NEVER work and will never work on anyone good, besides, you'll have racked up too much damage for the Uair string to even work if you some how pulled all that stuff off before hand.

(and once again I push "edit" instead of "quote" >_<)

 

[robnking]

It doesn't work in every battle its lucky if I pull it all off it can be di out of or stopped with a quick attack but I've pulled it off a few times before and if u hit them with it at a low percentage especially on heavier characters they can be uair several times if you read their di correctly

 

[robnking]

I should have said "if" I pull off that combo which is possible to do I seen m2k do similar combos all the time in tournaments. Is it possible to MT star KO. That's how I shuuld of put it. My fault

 

[Player-4]

First of all, please do not double post. I know you're new but if you don't know the forum rules you need to read them and be aware of what are in them, I can't let you off the hook just because you don't know something, that's you're responsibility. Sorry if that sounded harsh, I'm just having a rough day and want to make my point clear.

Second, why does it matter if they star KO or not? I think they do 99% of the time but honestly I don't understand what you're getting at with this question about the star KOing or not.

 

[robnking]

I apologize for the double post I was not aware of that and I accidently posted before I finished everything I had to say. but ok let me put it this way.. what percentage should my opponent be around after the last hit of mk uair to successfully complete the star ko with the mach tornado? And what's some tips with having mk successfully hit with his last hit of his MT? Is that better player 4??

 

[Player-4]

Lol it's fine, I guess, it's just weird hearing people say "how do I star KO with this move". Usually it's just, "how do I KO with this move".

But anyways, it doesn't really matter what percent your opponent is at to go for the KO, if you have them mega close to the top blast zone and can pull off a Tornado, then do so, don't worry about percent, because by the end of the Tornado they'll have enough to kill them.

Really the best way to do so is hit with 3-5 (depending on char weight) then finish with Nado while they're high close to the blast zone, it's actually easy and hard to KO with it, because they either say in and it's gonna happen or they get out early and you're in a bad position. But Nado kills off the top really shouldn't be your main concern.

I suggest reading the guide I posted, it's stickied on main MK page.

 

[robnking]

Lol it's fine, I guess, it's just weird hearing people say "how do I star KO with this move". Usually it's just, "how do I KO with this move".

But anyways, it doesn't really matter what percent your opponent is at to go for the KO, if you have them mega close to the top blast zone and can pull off a Tornado, then do so, don't worry about percent, because by the end of the Tornado they'll have enough to kill them.

Really the best way to do so is hit with 3-5 (depending on char weight) then finish with Nado while they're high close to the blast zone, it's actually easy and hard to KO with it, because they either say in and it's gonna happen or they get out early and you're in a bad position. But Nado kills off the top really shouldn't be your main concern.

I suggest reading the guide I posted, it's stickied on main MK page.

I realize this technique isn't a necessity I'm new to smashboards but my MK is not a rookie I play with him fairly well I just wanted to learn that technique.
But thanks a lot player you really helped me out and I will but more then likely I read it earlier before because I read pretty much all the meta knight stuff on here at least twice lol. I'm a try to find a video on it as well. How are you on pulling it off??

 

[LordAizen]

I have a question. I heard that Falco, Snake, Diddy and Meta Knight(lol) are the best counters to Meta Knight.

I want to know what about those 3 characters(not MK) makes them so good against MK.

 

[theunabletable]

@Aizen: ICs are good against MK, as well, probably like 55-45 (maaaybe 60-40, but I really don’t think so. Although it’s definitely a lot worse for ICs with MLG rules, I’d say 60-40 or maybe 65-35 with MLG rules.). And after seeing how TKD plays against MKs, that matchup looks really, really close to even (he says it’s completely even, but idk). Idk much about the matchup, but apparently Fox does pretty well. And ZSS apparently does pretty well vs MK, but again I don’t know that one that well.

Well for Falco, he outcamps MK. He can punish MK really hard (especially if it’s CG percentange range). He can be really hard to approach on the ground. Stuff like silent laser > Ftilt is practically unpunishable on shield if spaced right, for instance. He’s hard to juggle. His recovery is moderately safe (a free tornado most of the time when he’s off stage, but that’s about it).

With MLG rules it’s worse for Falco, but without them, it’s pretty close to even.

Diddy is really ****ing hard to approach, and can punish you really hard.

Snake has counters to like every option, camps you, and punishes you really hard.

ICs can camp you, and they punish you REAAAAAAALLY hard.

Fox camps you, and kills you ******* early. And pretty much has an answer for every one of your options according to TKD. Although I don’t know much about this matchup, so I’m just mentioning what I know from seeing TKD post and play

Probably forgot some stuff but w/e

 

[demonictoonlink]

I really am loving all of Tabls's post.

My favorite part is how he does the normal conditions then the MLG ones.

Also I think the ZSS being about even is silly. But meh. I think I agree with the others. Maybe not Fox.

 

[theunabletable]

Haha thanks.

Well I mean since MLG came and messed with common rulesets (imo for the better. I love liberal rulesets (and not because I main MK lol. Imo the rulesets could be even more liberal to help other characters with the inclusion of stages like Japes and stuff)) it’s impossible to really give accurate matchup ratios for MK since they’re so different with MLG rules. So you kind of need to give a ratio for both conservative and liberal rulesets.

I agree that I don’t personally see how Fox or ZSS do so well against, but I don’t know Fox or ZSS that well, and that’s just what TKD and NickRiddle say about the matchup. And it’s kind of difficult to argue with someone who knows the matchup better than anyone else, and has proven themselves in practical play. Since they know more about it than anyone (and especially me), I trust their ratios.

 

[Exdeath]

I think that MK-ZSS is in ZSS' favor by a decent amount while ZSS has her armor parts (HRNut is a lot better at using ZSS with armor pieces against MK than Nick Riddle is in my opinion) and then when the armor pieces are gone, it's MK's favor by a considerable amount -- and unlike most who say this, I actually have Nick Riddle experience. The main reasons that someone might believe that the match-up is even are that ZSS has armor pieces at the beginning of each game, ZSS has an answer to virtually everything that MK can do while ZSS is on stage, ZSS has multiple reliable ways to kill MK, and ZSS has multiple ways to quickly take off Meta Knight's stock(s).

 

[robnking]

I have another question. What's some of your favorite non common (common ones are ones such as d throw nair etc..) mk combos and finishers?

 

[Orion*]

LOL zss gets wrecked no matter what the situation is. 65/35 matchups are funny.

all of these "MUs" that people are posting are subjective as well. ex: i dont think mk has anything worse than 6:4 overall other than maybe a couple of matchups on a couple of stages being even or slightly in another characters favor. bt thats just my opinion lmao

 

[theunabletable]

Yeah they are subjective. I generally consider 55-45 to be a small but noticeable advantage, 60-40 to be a clear advantage, but still winnable, 65-35 near hard counter but still winnable if you’re much more skilled, 70-30 hard counter that you might as well give up on fighting if the opponent knows the matchup.

I’d prefer just saying “small advantage”, “advantage”, “big advantage”, and “hard counter”, but people like ratios so w/e

I have another question. What's some of your favorite non common (common ones are ones such as d throw nair etc..) mk combos and finishers?

Dash grab > buffered Fthrow at a ledge > FF nair is a mixup that I like that I don’t see people ever use. It covers common options really well, and most people won’t DI it correctly since it’s faster than human reaction, and most people don’t use Fthrow often…

It’s nice for setting up gimps at low percents. There are others, but that's the first one that came to mind

 

[Saltix]

Give me the replay please

Lol I just checked this,
Do you need it, or would you like me to upload myself?

 

[Exdeath]

ZSS doesn't get wrecked regardless of the situation if the ZSS is good.

I do agree that without a numerically significant system that ratios are unnaceptable/useless. Perhaps a simple "Even, Advantage, Strong Advantage, etc." system would be better.

 

[Kaffei]

How the hell do I fight Lucario? Idk that MU at all.

 

[theunabletable]

I ****ing hate Lucario so much; that matchup is annoying as hell. Last Lucario I played I just pressured him so he couldn’t charge an AS, then tornado’d him, then timed him out.

But Vato (who’s a good MK and beat Stauffy, a really good Lucario who’s good at the matchup (he’s taken sets of Tyrant, for instance), a few weeks ago) gave me some advice on aim.

According to him (I haven’t had the chance to use this advice yet myself), make sure you ALWAYS PS AS, and fair is really good and hard for Lucario to punish (all he can really do is AS I think). And gimp him. Learn how Lucario’s recover and then gimp them.

And I’ve found myself that tornado is really, really good. You can generally hit his shield and he can’t punish usually. As long as you kind of pressure him and make sure he can’t charge an AS, he can’t really stop nado. But be REALLY careful with your nado if he has an AS, especially if he’s at a high percent, or you’re at a high percent.

 

[Kaffei]

omfg thank you that makes me feel a little better. **** rollcarios

 

[Player-4]

You gotta kill him ASAP. Do not let him live and build Aura, because personally I feel the match up shifts to even if not slight advan for Lucario at high Aura. He pretty much transforms into a mobile Snake at high percents.

Stay in his face, his fastest ground move is Utilt which I believe comes out in 5 frames, and I don't think he really has any aerial combo breakers. Don't do obvious SLs when below him because he can just Dair you out of them. Don't forget his kill moves at higher percents: Bair, Uair, Dair, Nair, Fsmash, AS, Side-B (grab), and sometimes Fthrow.

Get him off stage, and just hang on the ledge. Even if you don't gimp him you put him in a bad position. Also, don't forget about his stock Aura as well, easily one of the best come back characters in the game.

 

[theunabletable]

Yeah when Vato was talking to me about the matchup, he said that gimping him was easily the most important part. You do NOT want him to live long.

**** Lucario; he shouldn't even be in this game.

 

[Kaffei]

That's why I was losing. I let him live to like 234234093840234328048230482304823048234823482384234023890732098564295234526347238264723652563462835482563427457234 percent and then he just ***** me o my fking god

 

[Player-4]

Yeah you really gotta kill him as soon as you can, because once he gets high Aura he can do like 60-70% in 3 moves, no joke.

For example:

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[Kaffei]

He lived to 180% -_- **** his DI

 

[Saltix]

Lucario's not even all that guys, I wish I could give better help on the match up, but since there are only like, 2 Lucario's around (including me lol), All I have to go by is what people do to me

FAir beating out my aerials
Uair Juggles
Dair/SL Gimping
Nairing the recovery
Tornado messes me up pretty badly as it's usually unpunishable until a certain % with AS
Shieldgrab the Dair

Aggression is key.

Honestly, whenever I fight MK's I get ***** HARD, unless I'm playing EXTREMELY defensive, even still it's so easy to gimp a Lucario with MK :/
Even with the aura boost, we shouldn't be living that long if the gimps are being done properly :/

 

[Orion*]

ZSS doesn't get wrecked regardless of the situation if the ZSS is good.

shes beyond awful as a character >_>

 

[Kaffei]

How the heck do I fight Fox

 

[Saltix]

How the heck do I fight Fox

You never answered me,
did you want me to upload it myself, or do you want me to send it to you?

 

[Kaffei]

You never answered me,
did you want me to upload it myself, or do you want me to send it to you?

Huh? Upload/send what?

 

[Exdeath]

shes beyond awful as a character >_>

I'm not arguing that she isn't or even that it's an even match-up. I'm saying that ZSS has an option for virtually everything that MK has while she's on-stage.

 

[Kaffei]

How do I fight Fox

 

[Clel]

How do I fight Fox

Usually I like to rush and **** fox, but since Zeton got used to it I now have to do it differently.

There's a spacing, like maybe two MK ftilts away - that's where I want to be at. When there, if Fox lasers I can rush and **** him like I usually do, if Fox tries to dash attack or anything sneaky I can react in time to counter it. I also make sure I don't get utilted at all, makes it much tougher for them. If Fox is trying to get in on you use retreating Fair to Dtilt, it's tough for them to get in on. I usually kill with shuttle loop - say I dsmash him usually he tries to DI with like Fair so I jump like I'm about to shuttle loop him and if I see the startup of his Fair I shuttle loop it. They have to air dodge else they're dead. Don't use Nado much especially at higher percents as it'll get you upsmashed. If Fox is above you, Uair beats everything if you space it right, say they're reflector stalling, just jump Uair getting closer with each one, usually Foxes think they can beat my Uairs or air dodge through it and get dair'd. I'm bad at gimping Fox though, so I just build percent and dsmash them if I don't get my shuttle loop kill.

 

[Orion*]

I'm not arguing that she isn't or even that it's an even match-up. I'm saying that ZSS has an option for virtually everything that MK has while she's on-stage.

doesnt change the risk reward of the options.

IE, if mk powershield grabs any of ZSS's moves that 12% + a potential stock/gimp
If ZSS makes some HUGE ELABORATE READ BECAUSE IF GOT SHE MISSES THAT GRAB SHES GETTING ANALLY ***** then she gets some shenanigan to uair oh ****ing no

if metaknight tornados at ZSS (FROM THE PROPER RANGE AND HEIGHT) running away and side-bing is not an option, and it will go over dsmash and set her up for a juggle. she can apparently uair tornado but i have yet to see it out of some psa crap, and she can bair it over the top or PS it to.... yay lol.

we could go on and on picking through each option, but that doesnt mean they are realistic in a tournament setting or worth looking into.

How do I fight Fox

pick pikachu, ics or shiek.

ggz

 

[Kaffei]

I hate Pikachu because he can't glide & all his costumes are ugly.
I hate ICs because CGing is boring.
I hate Sheik because she is not the same as Melee Sheik.

I AM MEDDA NITE

 

[Exdeath]

doesnt change the risk reward of the options.

IE, if mk powershield grabs any of ZSS's moves that 12% + a potential stock/gimp
If ZSS makes some HUGE ELABORATE READ BECAUSE IF GOT SHE MISSES THAT GRAB SHES GETTING ANALLY ***** then she gets some shenanigan to uair oh ****ing no

if metaknight tornados at ZSS (FROM THE PROPER RANGE AND HEIGHT) running away and side-bing is not an option, and it will go over dsmash and set her up for a juggle. she can apparently uair tornado but i have yet to see it out of some psa crap, and she can bair it over the top or PS it to.... yay lol.

we could go on and on picking through each option, but that doesnt mean they are realistic in a tournament setting or worth looking into.


pick pikachu, ics or shiek.

ggz

Tornado approaching isn't a very good idea because of ZSS' ability to maneuver, but it beats all of her options in a straight-up clash. Again, ZSS loses to MK, but she doesn't get "wrecked," providing that "wrecked" means that she can't really do anything (which is what I'm assuming that you mean). My analysis of the match-up is based specifically on options and their counters, not their rewards (because, though significant, it isn't some obscene difference like Dedede's Ftilt vs. Snake's Ftilt).

ZSS (without armor parts) is similar to Lucario (without a high aura) and Peach (without lucky items) in terms of how they are against MK, but she has more killing options and better hard punishes on-stage (obviously there are a lot of differences between them as characters/how the matches are played).

 

[TheLastCacely]

is there a tread to post recent results of local tourneys?

for mk mains, i mean.