Meta Knight Q&A Thread

[Player-4]

I have two quick questions:

1. What is the probability of dtilt tripping?
2. What is the best move or way to momentum cancel vertically.

I think Dtilt has like a 30% chance of tripping, and best way to momentum cancel for MK is always Uair, but if you're hit vertical just c-stick Uair while holding left or right accordingly with your analog stick

 

[FEAR977]

I think Dtilt has like a 30% chance of tripping, and best way to momentum cancel for MK is always Uair, but if you're hit vertical just c-stick Uair while holding left or right accordingly with your analog stick[/QUOTE

Thanks alot

 

[etecoon]

1. 33%
2. uair, fast fall immediately

 

[Orion*]

Need help vs. zss!

shield

shes free

 

[demonictoonlink]

I know the Peach matchup so much better than I would ever care to...
Honestly Peach is better off just sticking to turnip play imo

Oh and for dair on our shield. I'm not sure if we can "exactly" punish, but I think Uair OoS works. Also if you roll at the right time you reset to neutral because she can't catch up to MKs roll.

 

[vato_break]

what about in the begining of the match vss zss? just don't approach? i always get fvcked up D:

 

[Kaffei]

plank / linger under the stage until the pieces disappear... lol you're ****ing Meta Knight

Actually, chasing with uair is fine. You have to be precise and patient with it and follow her very carefully, but it generally ends up being extremely rewarding with the only risk being like 10% or whatever from her dair.

What you SHOULDN'T do is chase her with up Bs. The only time you should up B ZSS is when you KNOW it's going to hit, aka you baited her air dodge. Poke at her shield with dtilt and ftilt, but use them in the least laggy way possible. As slow as her grab may be, it's super long and she can shieldgrab your tilts if you do them in a manner that leaves a lot of frames open.

Since the only option she has is grab, she may roll away/behind or spot dodge. Punish accordingly. I like nair or dsmash for rolling behind, tornado for rolling behind and spot dodge, and dash attack/grab/fair for rolling away. Since you're kinda new, just know that you shouldn't have to react to the roll or dodge, but you should be able to guess when your opponent does it and preemptively input your punish. Also, she can grab your fair on block, or just pivot grab it if she predicts it.

Powershield side B and dsmash. If you want to win this matchup, you absolutely need to have these timings down, otherwise she's just going to ruin your shield and do all kinds of gay ZSS stuff. If you powershield side B, punish with a dash grab or dash attack. For dsmash, use dash grab, fair, up B, or dsmash. If you don't powershield, ZSS can shield/dodge/roll/jab before you can punish her.

Lots of ZSS players like to charge a paralyzer shot as you run forward and bait you to shield, then grab you right after. As MK, you have a ton of ways to avoid this. Jump out of your shield after the paralyzer hits you, roll backwards/spot dodge (time these well though, otherwise the lingering hitbox on the grab can snag you), or roll behind ZSS. You could also up B if you want, but make sure it's when ZSS is right near you and preparing to grab, otherwise she can react to this and up air you.

Something else very important is not to grounded up B very liberally. ZSS is fantastic at punishing this with uair and even bair. You can clash it with glide attack, but if you're not close to the ground, she can get another aerial out and hit you. Fair also straight up beats glide attack (first hit will clash, second hit will hit MK), but it's pretty difficult to get it out due to the small hitbox. Gliding at ZSS in general is a bad idea, if you don't grab the ledge from very low while recovering she can dsmash you which leads to a down B or bair into the stage (or just a killing side B/bair if they think you'll tech and you're at kill percents). Side B also ***** glides.

If ZSS is jabbing you, hold shield. Her jab doesn't actually combo into itself, and even though the full 3-hit jab has low lag, you can still shield the third hit and punish her with something. Her dtilt is extremely good and starts combos. Up tilt is super quick with a really gay hitbox, and is one of her best punishes if MK does something dumb on her shield such as ending the tornado near it. Make sure you end your tornado just slightly away from ZSS (out of up tilt, grab, and dash attack range) and always do the autocanceled landing. You'll probably end up getting punished if she blocks the full tornado, but if it isn't close to her, you can probably escape in time.

Edgeguarding ZSS is harder than people think at first, but also pretty **** easy at the same time. Generally she'll either use up B or an up air at the same time as her second jump if she's recovering low, then down B and/or tether to the edge. Her up air beats your dair handily, so just avoid her as she wastes her jump. Then it's all about the NAIR JORDAN, baby. Nair her all day and the weak hit will knock her out of her jump easily, and can also hit her down B before the kick comes out. Once you hit her out of down B, she can't use it again. Once down B and her jump are both gone, grab the edge and ZSS loses a stock. Also, if she down Bs and the apex of her jump is right on MK's head as you edgehog her, she can do a footstool and bounce onto the stage. Don't think you're entirely safe when she's close. Also, DON'T ***** OUT AND LET GO OF THE EDGE! Yes, up B can drag you down, but you're ****ing MK. You won't die from it.

If she's recovering high, keep refreshing the edge and wait for her to come near you, or jump up with some up airs or fairs. Sometimes they'll try to side B you as you chase her up high, just go under this and punish it with an aerial of your choice. Basically, the point is to force her to recover low or just kill her off the top/sides with an up air/nair. If you bait her air dodge, smack her with an up B. Gimping her from up high is significantly harder from down low, but it also leaves her with the difficulty of landing. Catch her landing with an up tilt or a tornado, or a grab if you so please.

On the edge, ZSS has a few tricks, but isn't anything to be feared. She can do huge ranged side B from the edge and either land onstage or refresh the edge. She can pseudo-plank with her down B, or fire paralyzer shots pretty safely. If you aren't super close to ZSS, don't bother trying to punish the side B, instead just shield it and get closer. If you're right in her face, or a smaller distance from the ledge, she's not going to side B. Tornado beats paralyzer shots and any ledgehop aerials she'll try. Ignore her planking, if you edgehog her she'll just footstool you. You can TRY dairing or nairing her, but I've never experimented with this and I'm not sure if she's vulnerable long enough.

ZSS'S LEDGE ATTACK ABOVE 100% IS SUPER GAY. Probably the gayest move in the game. It's SUPER long range (moreso than any of MK's grounded moves) and virtually unpunishable if you don't powershield. It also beats tornado since it does 10 damage. Just stand outside of the range of this move and wait for her next action, if you're not confident that you can powershield it consistently then don't bother trying to punish it.

She's got some dumb **** on MK once MK is in the air. Her up air is crazy good and will beat your dair head on. If you air dodge, she can uair again or bair you in the face. She can also do cool traps with up B that will either drag you down into a free hit (tech this if she tries it) or force you to air dodge, putting you in a bad position. Side B can also hit you out of the air if you're not careful, but it's telegraphed. The best way to avoid her juggles is to use your jumps to escape her as she chases you and then land as quickly as you can (or get near the ground and tornado, down B, grab the edge, etc.). Fast fall air dodge through her uair into your own uair strings or a nair work well.

While you're on the edge, she's going to try dumb **** like down smashing you or side Bing you. Just don't be predictable with your returns to the edge and you should be fine. Tornado loses to both of these things if you space poorly, and so does edge hop air dodge. The best way to get back is to move below and away from the edge (both side B and dsmash can't hit you here) and then either jump or tornado back carefully.

 

[vato_break]

Hmm, that post was very helpful! Thank you, i lost to a zss last weekend because i got ***** by items. -_-

 

[Staco]

Get on that ***** and take her suit parts.
You don´t want her to dress up again, am I rite? ;D

no censor dodging

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Is staco as drunk as I am?

 

[jpak]

can someone explain to me how this is done and what exactly is happening?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXXIyk_Fb6M

and the notation they use here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WbAYGJTzHMU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fE8m5dxWxXs

 

[Kaffei]

For the Ike gimping vid, the number pad at the beginning represents directions of the C stick / Control stick.
So for the most basic one, you Shield, and then just C stick right or left depending on which ledge.
The Falco spike one would be Hold down + toward the ledge, shield the up B then c stick down

This is very helpful I didn't know this. Thanks.

 

[demonictoonlink]

Aight, I'm not really the type to say stuff like this, but it has to be said. Staco, you have a HORRIBLE Falco. Like, worse than mine. Don't play Falco. MK. You play MK.

 

[vato_break]

Is airdodging with metaknight always bad? i only see it being decent when it's being used as a mixup ledge option.

 

[etecoon]

air dodging past people while trying to get grounded is bad, MK's fall speed is horrid and dimension cape is usually better

it's good to buffer things when you know it won't be punished though

 

[Exdeath]

Is airdodging with metaknight always bad? i only see it being decent when it's being used as a mixup ledge option.

Falling with air dodge is occasionally a good option, but for the most part, Meta Knight shouldn't air dodge. It can also be useful in the ditto, but in general the rest of the cast can catch Meta Knight before he hits the ground if he's around full hop height or above when he air dodges. If you are going to air dodge through an opponent, you should fast-fall first.

My suggestion to you, however (and this is something that M2K has been practicing lately) is to simply use your aerials to space away from your opponent until you can make it to the ledge. From the ledge, MK is still vulnerable to edge guarding, but he can wait for the opponent to leave themselves open and then use that opening to punish/return to the stage.

 

[Omni]

mk never has to air dodge to the ground. he has what six jumps?

dont even use it as a mix up option to get back on the stage.

only time i'd use it if you're mixing up late ff d-airs with ff land grab which is a pretty good mix up.

 

[Player-4]

mk never has to air dodge to the ground. he has what six jumps?

dont even use it as a mix up option to get back on the stage.

only time i'd use it if you're mixing up late ff d-airs with ff land grab which is a pretty good mix up.

Lol I don't agree with this.

You'll be surprised how well a buffered air dodge to the stage from the ledge will land you a free grab or Ftilt. It most certainly is a good mix up.

 

[Exdeath]

mk never has to air dodge to the ground. he has what six jumps?

dont even use it as a mix up option to get back on the stage.

only time i'd use it if you're mixing up late ff d-airs with ff land grab which is a pretty good mix up.

Tell that to M2K haha. Sometimes it's better than falling with an attack. Especially when you're using it to cross-up. It works wonders against Snake/Dedede.

 

[Dru2]

What's the omnigay? At first i thought it just meant you played rly gayly but i heard Omni say he's the one who invented it. so is it like a technique or what?

 

[Exdeath]

What's the omnigay? At first i thought it just meant you played rly gayly but i heard Omni say he's the one who invented it. so is it like a technique or what?

When Meta Knight or Kirby Up Throws a character who is holding an explosive/attached C4 and the explosive is set off while they are at the peak of the jump, it is known as the "Omnigay."

The Omnigay will generally kill at any percent and usually determines who dies based on port priority. I have, however, seen the Omnigay kill no one (probably because they were too low/high at the time) and kill both characters (I'm not certain as to why this would happen).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhmRoAz_4CQ

 

[vato_break]

Lol I don't agree with this.

You'll be surprised how well a buffered air dodge to the stage from the ledge will land you a free grab or Ftilt. It most certainly is a good mix up.

Yeah thats what i thought because i know you can buffer alot of other stuff from an airdodge as well. Also DSF, told me awhile back that the ditto at higher level play, airdodging at all is almost always bad except at the ledge. He told me why are you airdodging? i guess it's just a habit i do, because i had to buffer alot of stuff with my previous main. So for me it is a habit to sometimes airdodge and i'm sure other metaknights have this habit too, which good metaknights will look for in the ditto maybe? i don't know

 

[etecoon]

air dodging vs another MK is mostly a really bad idea lmao, especially if they're below you at all, like, just don't do it

 

[Omni]

i mean i've only mained MK since the beginning of brawl. m2k does a lot of silly things he can get away with because people are afraid of him and hesitate and because he has such excellent control over his character

but frame data and realistic wise air dodging INTO an mk will never have good results if the mk

1.) grabs if you're in front
2.) n-airs your landing lag from the back

your safest bet is to always just jump away and land on a platform or do a quick tornado (let go of ledge, double jump tornado to other side of stage without pressing B to keep the tornado hovering) or patiently bide your time until the MK leaves an opening in his edgeguard game.

air dodging is what good MK's want you to do because there are so many frames available to punish it if it's read

edit: a much better way to get back onto the ledge without air dodging is as follows:

1.) drop from the ledge and regrab the ledge.
2.) pay attention to when you double jump. press it early enough that you snap back to the ledge perfectly.
3.) when you want to get back on the stage let go of the ledge, then double jump but hold down, this enables you to hug the ledge without actually grabbing it
4.) time your double jump while holding down so that at the peak of your double jump you land on the edge

this happens deceptively fast and eats MK's that are charging f-smash near the ledge. the point of regrabbing the ledge in step 1 is to condition your opponent into thinking you're regrabbing the ledge again

 

[Exdeath]

I didn't say to fall into MK... I specifically mentioned Dedede. Frame data-wise, sometimes air dodging is faster/safer than an aerial. Not always, not often, but not never, either.

 

[Omni]

fast fall into DDD? hm.

i feel like that's asking for a turn around grab or a full hop d-air from the DDD.

 

[Exdeath]

fast fall into DDD? hm.

i feel like that's asking for a turn around grab or a full hop d-air from the DDD.

Dair is fairly useless if you're SDIng properly on reaction. If you're crossing up properly, turn around and grab is a read and risks you just dropping right in front of Dedede and doing whatever. What Dedede has that is bad for air dodging into him are Utilt and Dsmash for hard reads.

 

[Omni]

in theory Dair is fairly useless but you're usely not expecting to SDI the moment DDD goes for his d-air directly into your body

d-smash ain't happening unless it's charged which means there's no point air dodging

up-tilt yes

i play coney all the time tho. air dodging into him is never a good idea

 

[Exdeath]

in theory Dair is fairly useless but you're usely not expecting to SDI the moment DDD goes for his d-air directly into your body

d-smash ain't happening unless it's charged which means there's no point air dodging

up-tilt yes

i play coney all the time tho. air dodging into him is never a good idea

I have no problem SDIng Dair on reaction. You don't need to expect it, just practice the SDI. It isn't difficult. I specifically said that Dsmash was for a hard read.

I've played CO18/Seibrik (it's been a while since he's used Dedede against me, though) and it works fine for me. I get punished for it ~1/3 of the time, but that's because it's a read, not because it doesn't work.

 

[Limeee]

tap jump off player here trying to adjust to tap jump on (for the sake of easier up-b oos)
how the hell do i do a shuttle loop in the air? it seems like the simplest thing but i always jump even if i press both buttons at the same time >.<
i'm just too used to tap jump off

 

[Exdeath]

tap jump off player here trying to adjust to tap jump on (for the sake of easier up-b oos)
how the hell do i do a shuttle loop in the air? it seems like the simplest thing but i always jump even if i press both buttons at the same time >.<
i'm just too used to tap jump off

Try holding up before pressing B. It's also pressure sensitive, so practice Up-Bing with jumping and without (a.k.a. Shadow Loop).

 

[-LzR-]

So you mean MK shouldn't airdodge much at all?

 

[vato_break]

I have tap jump off to but, I set L to jump because iIreally only used R for sheilding. When I mained Mario I needed tap jump off but, i still needed upB/Nair OoS so i set L to jump and took off tap jump.

 

[Pitzer]

K when both people die from the onmigay it's because the higher ports percent is very high like around 100%.

 

[Kaffei]

Play melee and lern2 not air dodge 9999x times

 

[Staco]

Aight, I'm not really the type to say stuff like this, but it has to be said. Staco, you have a HORRIBLE Falco. Like, worse than mine. Don't play Falco. MK. You play MK.

I don´t even play Falco.
I just play Falco sometimes for the lulz, cause you also need to know the character of your enemy and it´s fun to play other characters sometimes.
I never play him regulary and just picked him for the lulz (thats a 2 matches Falco, didn´t play him for weeks before that tourney), cause reaper would never do a MM vs. my MK with Peach.
I didn´t know that **** will get uploaded.
The funny thing is also, that reaper recorded other vids of that tourney, such as finals etc. but he just uploads that video, where he beats a non falco main, lol.

BTW, where have you read about that videos?
I didn´t know about anything getting uploaded, so I really want to know, why reaper still uploaded them and didn´t even ask me.

 

[Orion*]

Yeah thats what i thought because i know you can buffer alot of other stuff from an airdodge as well. Also DSF, told me awhile back that the ditto at higher level play, airdodging at all is almost always bad except at the ledge. He told me why are you airdodging? i guess it's just a habit i do, because i had to buffer alot of stuff with my previous main. So for me it is a habit to sometimes airdodge and i'm sure other metaknights have this habit too, which good metaknights will look for in the ditto maybe? i don't know

dont airdodge above mk, end story

i hate being free

its cool man p4 feels your pain

 

[FEAR977]

What is the best way to fight ddd with mk? I for some reason seem to get sheildgrabbed alot and I never win. Any tips on the MU?

 

[Orion*]

you dont have anything thats really safe on block assuming d3 powershields other than like, dair and tornado

the mu imo is really just camping, and if you can get a good grab or nado on d3 keeping him offstage. onstage d3 is pretty homo and has no problems fighting metaknight

 

[demonictoonlink]

I don´t even play Falco.
I just play Falco sometimes for the lulz, cause you also need to know the character of your enemy and it´s fun to play other characters sometimes.
I never play him regulary and just picked him for the lulz (thats a 2 matches Falco, didn´t play him for weeks before that tourney), cause reaper would never do a MM vs. my MK with Peach.
I didn´t know that **** will get uploaded.
The funny thing is also, that reaper recorded other vids of that tourney, such as finals etc. but he just uploads that video, where he beats a non falco main, lol.

BTW, where have you read about that videos?
I didn´t know about anything getting uploaded, so I really want to know, why reaper still uploaded them and didn´t even ask me.

LOL I completely understand. I was like...why are these up? They're just on his chanel. Everybody does stupid comments like "OMG amazing Peach!!!". And I thumbs down the **** out of them.