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Meta Knight Officially Banned!

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-Ran

Smash Master
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A new Tier list will require around six months of actual metagame progress to determine what's happening.
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
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so....what should I do about my thread? start over and count only MK banned tournaments now?
 

zmx

Smash Lord
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Hey while you're busy making bad call outs to people about how they tell you to take their word for it but have no proof, I'm still waiting on that explanation on why PS2 is broken and comparable to Hyrule being broken. Or am I supposed to take your word for it? ;D
Kindly explain to me how you can justify all those ridiculous gimmicks on that stage in competitive play. Or rather this would be better: explain to me why it was banned in the first place and what was the rationale behind unbanning it. If you can persuade me I'll change my mind. I'm willing to listen to the logic behind it. If you respond with another insult then I will be forced to conclude you are extremely biased and beyond reason after all.

You are in a position to know after all, right?
 

TheLastCacely

Smash Hero
Joined
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i really hate when people try to argue that mk should not be banned... like u cant, u just cant.
 

John12346

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Ripple, since MK legal is technically optional until essentially the end of the year, let's just keep it going until then, y'know?
 

Bizkit047

Smash Lord
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Kindly explain to me how you can justify all those ridiculous gimmicks on that stage in competitive play. Or rather this would be better: explain to me why it was banned in the first place and what was the rationale behind unbanning it. If you can persuade me I'll change my mind. I'm willing to listen to the logic behind it. If you respond with another insult then I will be forced to conclude you are extremely biased and beyond reason after all.

You are in a position to know after all, right?
Challenge accepted.

Gimmicks = uncompetitive? Then I guess we should ban a bunch of low tier characters, as their only hope in a lot of MUs are gimmicks. You see the gimmicks on RC/Brinstar, Lylat, YI, Firgate, etc? Let's ban all those as well, gimmicks are uncompetitive.

Try again, this time go into more depth, because all I gather from this is "I don't know the stage well enough to actually explain any of the gimmicks, I just know they're there." The best part are the gimmicks are not broken in any way, and if the opponent knows the stage even a small bit they can avoid it quite easily.
 

Le vieux lapin

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I wanna see Mk players own at Apex. Go out with a bang, ya know?
It'd be sad if the character who most impacted this game just left with a couple of sour posts and banned players.
 

awesome

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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Smashboards just shot themselves in the foot.

I don't know how much the rest of you know about fighting culture (I'm an expert), but honor and shame are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in competitive racing gaming (like Mario Kart) where you can become successful by being an *******. If you screw someone over in the fighting community, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.

What this means is the general brawl players, after hearing about this, is not going to want to participate in thisr tournament, nor will they support Smashboards. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Smashboards has alienated an entire league of competitive fighting gamers with this move.

Smashboards, publicly apologize and re-instate Metaknight or you can kiss your forum goodbye.
Hello. I have not posted on or even browsed this forum since shortly after Brawl's release. I am making this post today to say that this is amazing. I laughed at this, and the responses to it even more so. Keep up the good work. We all miss you.
 
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Bizkit047

Smash Lord
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i really hate when people try to argue that mk should not be banned... like u cant, u just cant.
You can, it's just really hard. Especially because some of the arguments to keep MK legal from the 2008/2009 days are no longer valid, such as "you just have to learn the MU."
 

Marc

Relic of the Past
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The MK ban will no doubt make the logistics hard for gathering data and even creating a tier list, to the extent that people base their judgement on the MK matchup. Currently I'd say to gather data for both MK legal and banned events and try to figure out what to do after APEX. Moreso than before the American scene will be running with two metagames, unless it somehow completely stabilizes. Not having a complete overview seems harmful either way. The tier list has always been a staple for the smash community, but perhaps for Brawl now might be the time to play around with statistical derivatives of the (soon to be updated) matchup chart rather than create two tier lists. The matchup chart at least will be completely unaffected by this.
 

#HBC | Ryker

Netplay Monstrosity
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Kindly explain to me how you can justify all those ridiculous gimmicks on that stage in competitive play. Or rather this would be better: explain to me why it was banned in the first place and what was the rationale behind unbanning it. If you can persuade me I'll change my mind. I'm willing to listen to the logic behind it. If you respond with another insult then I will be forced to conclude you are extremely biased and beyond reason after all.

You are in a position to know after all, right?
Zmx, you continue not backing your statements and demanding proof of others. The burden of proof lies with the accuser.
 

MegaRobMan

Smash Hero
Joined
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Omaha, NE
You want to know what else was voted unanimously? Legalizing all infinites.
This is really stupid and why the brawl community is silly.

I think if we ban MK, we should ban infinites as well. Only fair since MK requires you to actually move around and play smart. Infinites you just run around and bait a grab 3 times and win. Marth/D3 are NOT supposed to be played like Ice Climbers.

yea that is a bad thing imo. And they all think it is great! ALL
I agree with everything Mekos has said.

well whats done is done. Sorry M2k. That mk was on a level no other player even came close.
Mekos(and FAE), just teach M2K Lucas. Eventually people will think he's broken and want to ban him. You can come back to this post and quote me.

So that is, hmm, interesting...kind of a censorship, isn't it?
Pretty much. I never agreed with it, and fought against the concept of it at every point I could.
Good, I was ready to jump on people for their autoimmunity, not being able to talk about stuff to the open public about why you made decisons and getting rid of PUBLIC opinion on subjects is rather DUMB.

HOWEVER, for Brawl, especially in this past year in the USA, I see players drop their mains for MK because they are delusional and think it will improve their placings. And when a ****load of people do that, you can't be surprised it goes out of control.

Bandwagons, bandwagons, bandwagons. That's all there is to it.
Sadly, I agree. I witness bandwagon/group think way way way too much, and not even video game related :/ (see pop music, dress styles, internet memes, the list goes on.)

Still waiting for M2K's post on what he thinks and who he's going to play.
He's gonna pick up a bad character and make us ban him too.

Dedede approves even more. :troll:
This, damnit, I hate D3 :/

Do you also think the moon landing was faked and 9-11 was planned?
moon landing. No
9/11-Short answer-Yes, with a LOT of buts. Go on Netflix and watch some documentaries about 9/11. Fascinating stuff.

I disagree. If that's the case, why isn't he the best in Melee and 64? I think you're insulting top level players here.
M2K was the best in melee and HE was the ENTIRE metagame for a long time. Everyone who played Marth/Sheik (and kinda fox/falco) basically mimics M2K and his meta game. I know Mango reshaped the game, but for a while, it was M2K.

Finally current in this thread.

LOTS of uneducated comments from both sides.
This

Everyone knows Falco is the most broken, cheapest character in melee.
 

zmx

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
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Challenge accepted.

Gimmicks = uncompetitive? Then I guess we should ban a bunch of low tier characters, as their only hope in a lot of MUs are gimmicks. You see the gimmicks on RC/Brinstar, Lylat, YI, Firgate, etc? Let's ban all those as well, gimmicks are uncompetitive.

Try again, this time go into more depth, because all I gather from this is "I don't know the stage well enough to actually explain any of the gimmicks, I just know they're there." The best part are the gimmicks are not broken in any way, and if the opponent knows the stage even a small bit they can avoid it quite easily.
You still haven't answered my main question. Why was it banned in the first place and why was it unbanned later? If you don't know that's okay. I just thought you would. So far all you've done is repeat what you said earlier regarding it.

I do like how you brought up that players can adapt to it and thus it is not broken. Because if that logic is viable I can also say, Euros and the Japanese have adapted to MK and thus he is not as broken as you'd think.
 

TheLastCacely

Smash Hero
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for those saying everything will be the same.....

u will not be saying that by this time next year.....
 
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lol The only legit reason to ban Jiggs in Melee is to avoid matches like Hungrybox vs Armada during Genesis 2. Best of 5 match. Two went to time out, and the others went roughly have the time to play.

Hype killer lol
 

Bizkit047

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
1,632
This is really stupid and why the brawl community is silly.

I think if we ban MK, we should ban infinites as well. Only fair since MK requires you to actually move around and play smart. Infinites you just run around and bait a grab 3 times and win. Marth/D3 are NOT supposed to be played like Ice Climbers.
I don't mean to sound rude, but that's an awful scrub mentality against infinites. The reason we legalized all infinites was because it makes no sense to ban some infinites and not others. We can't ban some just because "they're gay" or "gayer", as that's pretty subjective. Furthermore, banning all infinites in general cannot be compared at all to MK being banned. Infinites are not even terribly common. Let's not forget, Marth/D3 can only infinite about 5-7 characters total between both, while ICs can infinite the whole cast.
 

Le vieux lapin

Smash Ace
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This decision will make such an impact on this game, but whether it will
be positive or negative cannot be concluded so early.People keep
saying this will be the end, but how can they know? Nothing like this has
ever happened before, so they can only speculate.....

I only hope that if it does turn out to be a bad decision, and the community
becomes worse for it, that the commitee will revoke their decision.
 

#HBC | Ryker

Netplay Monstrosity
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M2K was the best in melee and HE was the ENTIRE metagame for a long time. Everyone who played Marth/Sheik (and kinda fox/falco) basically mimics M2K and his meta game. I know Mango reshaped the game, but for a while, it was M2K.
Was being the operative word. He is not and will not be the end all, be all of Smash. He's a good player, props to that, but to say that regardless of what anyone else did and any differences to the meta game that his never playing MK would have made is a ridiculous statement to make and insulting to any player who is anywhere near the top.

As for your comment about standing infinites, please shut up. ICs is about baiting three grabs, they aren't the best. Every other standing infinite is character specific resulting in a bad match-up as opposed to a character who is going to take the game by storm.
 

TheLastCacely

Smash Hero
Joined
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Messages
6,937
why do people think diddy and snake are gonna be the new best? the reason those chars were so high was because mk destroyed alot of the chars that could beat them lmao.

the new tier list is gonna be nice to see.

this game can be playable
 

Jem.

Smash Master
Joined
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Marysville, Washington
Disappointed. IDK if I can state what I want to without coming off as defensive, but it is a shame that this will pretty much me seal not going to a National again. When I went to regionals and nationals (I think around 4 total, maybe 5) it was to grow as a person and to grow my Metaknight. My region isn't banning MK, and I am not going to forfeit tournaments to try to relearn Falco or learn a new tournament character. Playing in friendlies with a character and in tournament is completely different. But to be fair, I wasn't sure if I'd ever attend a National even if MK was allowed, but this pretty much seals the fate.

Let's hope these 17 made a decision based on the game, and not the people of the game. Because old habits die hard, and those people who whine about MK will find something new to excessively whine about after a few months. But since I've been here since 2003, I will hope for the best, but I feel for the MK's who spent a long time only playing MK at a high level. RIP Metaknight at Nationals. Much rather fight you with other characters than ever fight a campy IC, Diddy, Falco, Wario, Marth, and Toon Link.

Times have changed since I entered my first tournament March 1st, 2003. That's for sure.
 

Bizkit047

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
1,632
You still haven't answered my main question. Why was it banned in the first place and why was it unbanned later? If you don't know that's okay. I just thought you would. So far all you've done is repeat what you said earlier regarding it.
It was not banned in Unity ever, so no, I cannot answer that. I can tell you while Hyrule was banned in Unity, though, if you wish.

I do like how you brought up that players can adapt to it and thus it is not broken. Because if that logic is viable I can also say, Euros and the Japanese have adapted to MK and thus he is not as broken as you'd think.
The Japanese catered their ruleset to MK quite a bit (most notably a super conservative stage list only because of MK), and the biggest factor of all is that they do not play for money. That kills a lot of the incentive to play gay as possible, notice how most of the MKs are aggressive in Japan. I can't see M2K playing ungodly gay in most of his matches if it weren't for $1,000+.

As for Europe...hard to say, but from the looks of it when I watch their top players, they just plain don't have a lot of MK players and their MK players that they do have are not very good. An assumption? Yes, but if any travel to Apex we'll find out how they stack against US MKs.

You can adapt to MK and still lose. You can adapt to PS2 and use it to your advantage. Big difference.
 

HowaitoKumaSan

Smash Apprentice
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186
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why do people think diddy and snake are gonna be the new best? the reason those chars were so high was because mk destroyed alot of the chars that could beat them lmao.

the new tier list is gonna be nice to see.

this game can be playable
There's certainly going to be a lot of Snake, Diddy and Marth players come January and a few weeks after. There's no denying that. I just wanna see who takes the new top spot once the "power struggle" dies down. I have a feeling it'll probably still be those three (which isn't going to be all that bad), but here's hoping for a surprise.
 

#HBC | Ryker

Netplay Monstrosity
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As for Europe...hard to say, but from the looks of it when I watch their top players, they just plain don't have a lot of MK players and their MK players that they do have are not very good. An assumption? Yes, but if any travel to Apex we'll find out how they stack against US MKs.
Kaos is as good as some high level MKs, that's for sure. He's still not at the same level as an M2K or Anti.
 

Gambe17

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 13, 2008
Messages
74
Basically, banning MK was the hugest mistake that has been done on Brawl's lifeline. Almost all of the good players will quit because of it and when the community is dead almost non existent it will already be too late to revoke any decision. R.I.P. Super Smash Bros. Brawl Offline Community as we know it.
 
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This decision will make such an impact on this game, but whether it will
be positive or negative cannot be concluded so early.People keep
saying this will be the end, but how can they know? Nothing like this has
ever happened before, so they can only speculate.....

I only hope that if it does turn out to be a bad decision, and the community
becomes worse for it, that the commitee will revoke their dcision.
the commitee
This decision will make such
An impact on this game but whether
It will be positive or

negative cannot
be concluded so early
people keep saying

this will be the end
but how can they know? nothing
like this has ever
 

Ripple

ᗣᗣᗣᗣ ᗧ·····•·····
Joined
Sep 4, 2006
Messages
9,632
Basically, banning MK was the hugest mistake that has been done on Brawl's lifeline. Almost all of the good players will quit because of it and when the community is dead almost non existent it will already be too late to revoke any decision. R.I.P. Super Smash Bros. Brawl Offline Community as we know it.
M2K is the only top player that has said he would quit. NO ONE and I literally mean no one else, has said they are quitting or going to quit.

please do not spout something that is entirely wrong
 

HowaitoKumaSan

Smash Apprentice
Joined
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Messages
186
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Basically, banning MK was the hugest mistake that has been done on Brawl's lifeline. Almost all of the good players will quit because of it and when the community is dead almost non existent it will already be too late to revoke any decision. R.I.P. Super Smash Bros. Brawl Offline Community as we know it.
As I've said before: "good riddance to bad rubbish."
 
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