Meta Knight Officially Banned!

[Judo777]

of course it will never happen.

I'm glad you provide even better points than me to prove how many factors affect said data about tournaments.

This is exactly why I think data is irrelevant, and that it depended more on opinions than some people here are trying to make it look like.

Well common opinion tends to agree with the data that has been presented. Also what exactly did we decide "perfect planking" even is. Because how do we know that perfect planking can't get around that trick? Is there some rule that entails the MK must attack immediately?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It stops perfect planking which was the problem. Everything else that MK can do is beatable. It's better than anyone else's planking game, but still beatable

I don't believe that something needs to be unbeatable for it to be banned.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

So you want too remove the LGL, but you think MK's planking is ban worthy even though it's beatable?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

MK without a LGL beats everyone in the cast 70:30 or better, in my experience.

I believe that if I was to ban a stage like Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1 because of the amount of depth it removes from the game (which I would), then it would be hypocritical not to also support an MK ban.

I don't support a LGL because it breaks precedent with how we have banned stages instead of limiting their bad traits.

I covered all of this in my massive stage legality thread.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

MK without a LGL beats everyone in the cast 70:30 or better, in my experience.

I believe that if I was to ban a stage like Mushroomy Kingdom 1-1 because of the amount of depth it removes from the game (which I would), then it would be hypocritical not to also support an MK ban.

I don't support a LGL because it breaks precedent with how we have banned stages instead of limiting their bad traits.

I covered all of this in my massive stage legality thread.

How are we supposed to limit their bad traits and make these rules enforceable? We can't so we just do the next best thing and ban the stage. I don't agree with a ledge grab limit but it is enforceable and there is never going to be a way to completely ban planking.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

WarioWare has several MicroGames that are fine for competitive play (Taunt, Don't Move and Chisel come to my mind first), we could make it so during the "bad" micro games, if a player wins then they lose the game (like how if you go over the LGL, you lose the game).

 

[Judo777]

How are we supposed to limit their bad traits and make these rules enforceable? We can't so we just do the next best thing and ban the stage. I don't agree with a ledge grab limit but it is enforceable and there is never going to be a way to completely ban planking.

Am I the only person in the whole world that thinks that planking isn't a problem with anyone but MK. Btw one of the biggest issues with MK's planking was that it was a very difficult to beat, stand alone tactic, .......on the already best character in the game. Like the primary issue with planking in the first place is that it is another win option when MK can't win in the traditional manner (which btw he is already the best at).

So it's like "pick MK if you want to have the best shot at killing your opponent and winning, however if you still can't win even after picking him there's one more thing you can do, don't fight them since they don't want to fight you (as no one does which is why everyone in the freaking world camps MK)."

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I came 2nd in the first tournament I used MK by planking.

I then came 1st in two subsequent tournaments before my state enforced a LGL.

 

[da K.I.D.]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Joyf8KKdg4

We never even got a chance to use this in tournament. It's funny how they banned MK only after they found a way combat Planking.

It stops perfect planking which was the problem. Everything else that MK can do is beatable. It's better than anyone else's planking game, but still beatable

So you want too remove the LGL, but you think MK's planking is ban worthy even though it's beatable?

How are we supposed to limit their bad traits and make these rules enforceable? We can't so we just do the next best thing and ban the stage. I don't agree with a ledge grab limit but it is enforceable and there is never going to be a way to completely ban planking.

You are a douchebag.

You know Im right so you completely ignored my post. I know you saw it so dont try to act like you didnt.

But here it is again just to make sure:

Everyone cares how good he is. He's not even Japan's best player and he is beating America's best. Let's just see what happens now that we have one of japan's best players (Nietono) attending


I want to see the look in every pro-bans' face when MK once again doesn't get first at an Apex tournament.

sigh... this is why everyone hates you.

You didnt actually counter or refute any of my points. All you did was restate your original statement

Let me make this slow and easy for you.

Who cares how good he is, youre making the claim that Japan > America based on one guy that beat m2k and ally and than lost to dehf and dabuz.

You keep spouting off about how amazing it is that brood beat m2k and ally, while conviniently avoiding the fact that he lost to two players who werent regarded as being as good as those two (even though dehf beat ally that tourney too.

the person who was japans best at the time (RAIN) lost to 2 players were not Americas best. By that logic I could easily say that America is lightyears ahead of Japans meta because their best player came over here and didnt even get top 5. Losing to lee M (who also beat brood) and ally.

brood also lost not even a week later to dabuz, which means america has the better olimars right?

I mean, by this logic I could just say that lee martin is better than the entire nation of japan lol.

This is why brood beating m2k and ally has little significance, whether hes the best player or not. because even though he beat the 2 of them, he also lost to To MORE people of the same skill level or lower. And the person who was the best at the time lost to the same people (Lee in bracket and DEHF in pools.

and just in case you wanted to check, heres my source data
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=10928091#post10928091

 

[SaveMeJebus]

sigh... this is why everyone hates you.

You didnt actually counter or refute any of my points. All you did was restate your original statement

Let me make this slow and easy for you.


You keep spouting off about how amazing it is that brood beat m2k and ally, while conviniently avoiding the fact that he lost to two players who werent regarded as being as good as those two (even though dehf beat ally that tourney too.

the person who was japans best at the time (RAIN) lost to 2 players were not Americas best. By that logic I could easily say that America is lightyears ahead of Japans meta because their best player came over here and didnt even get top 5. Losing to lee M (who also beat brood) and ally.

brood also lost not even a week later to dabuz, which means america has the better olimars right?

I mean, by this logic I could just say that lee martin is better than the entire nation of japan lol.

This is why brood beating m2k and ally has little significance, whether hes the best player or not. because even though he beat the 2 of them, he also lost to To MORE people of the same skill level or lower. And the person who was the best at the time lost to the same people (Lee in bracket and DEHF in pools.

and just in case you wanted to check, heres my source data
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=10928091#post10928091

HE IS NOT THE BEST PLAYER IN JAPAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why is that sooo hard for you to understand??? If we were to send Rich Brown to Europe and he would take second at a national, beating out their top players, what is that going to say about their metagame when compared to ours?

@Judo, I just feel like we never got a chance to use this antiplanking technique. Players leaned how to beat MK and then they started planking. Now we find a way to combat planking but instead they ban him.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

1st paragraph: Absolutely nothing, you can't judge a whole continent based on one player's performance in a single tournament.

2nd: And like I said before, that anti-planking thing was brought up in planking's early days and was immediately obvious to anyone who knew what shield SDI was and how it works.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

1st paragraph: Absolutely nothing, you can't judge a whole continent based on one player's performance in a single tournament.

2nd: And like I said before, that anti-planking thing was brought up in planking's early days and was immediately obvious to anyone who knew what shield SDI was and how it works.

Like I said, lets just wait and see what happens at Apex this time

Not every player knew about antiplanking which means that not every player knew how to combat planking. Now that we have a video, everyone can learn how to combat planking and planking becomes less broken.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Then you think that we shouldn't have a LGL till we see if its unbeatable or not?

Finally.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Then you think that we shouldn't have a LGL till we see if its unbeatable or not?

Finally.

Yeah, the new Jebus thinks everything should be legal

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I like the new Jebus.

Also, I like your combo video, cool stuff.

 

[Karnu]

troll post was troll post

lololololololololololololo

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Do you go to majors, BC?

I want to get some experience in the Lucario match-up, so if you do, I'll try and seek you out next time I go interstate :3

 

[Ghostbone]

I came 2nd in the first tournament I used MK by planking.

I then came 1st in two subsequent tournaments before my state enforced a LGL.

SA so bad >.>

 

[Zankoku]

HE IS NOT THE BEST PLAYER IN JAPAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why is that sooo hard for you to understand??? If we were to send Rich Brown to Europe and he would take second at a national, beating out their top players, what is that going to say about their metagame when compared to ours?

If we sent RichBrown and M2K to Europe, RichBrown took second and M2K ended up in like... 9th, what does it say?

When Brood and RAIN came over, RAIN was the best period in Japan at the time and got 7th. Brood got 2nd. How does this say Japan is better than America? How does Brood only getting 5th at a LOCAL the very next week keep up that claim? That's like if at APEX 2012 Mr.R ended up only top 8 but this guy Ravenlord made top 3, then clearly Germany is better than America.

In short, you're ignoring the counterpoints generated by your own arguments. Don't do that.

 

[Laem]

I do find it hard to believe Brood beating US top 2 in brackets in the tourney that mattered doesn't roflstomp on any other argument thrown into the mix.
Especially saying Lee Martin beat Brood (this must've happened in pools if at all) even though Brood beat him (back?) in brackets is a very hollow point.

and what's this about a local xD? All I've seen is one other tourney where he got 2nd losing to ADHD.

 

[DMG]

There was a local where he got 9th? I think. It was like a week or two after Apex cause he didn't fly back til later.

 

[Chuee]

When Brood and RAIN came over, RAIN was the best period in Japan at the time and got 7th. Brood got 2nd. How does this say Japan is better than America? How does Brood only getting 5th at a LOCAL the very next week keep up that claim?

To be fair, he also took second at a local before that losing close sets to ADHD.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

If we sent RichBrown and M2K to Europe, RichBrown took second and M2K ended up in like... 9th, what does it say?

When Brood and RAIN came over, RAIN was the best period in Japan at the time and got 7th. Brood got 2nd. How does this say Japan is better than America? How does Brood only getting 5th at a LOCAL the very next week keep up that claim? That's like if at APEX 2012 Mr.R ended up only top 8 but this guy Ravenlord made top 3, then clearly Germany is better than America.

In short, you're ignoring the counterpoints generated by your own arguments. Don't do that.

I'm pretty sure Rain was never considered the best in Japan. I don't know what you are talking about

 

[Judo777]

I'm pretty sure Rain was never considered the best in Japan. I don't know what you are talking about

Well you're wrong. In fact over the stream at APEX someone said that after Rain lost Rain walked over to Brood and said "Now you are the best in Japan" then something encouraging after that telling him to win.

A few weeks later someone released a Japan PR and rain was at the top of the list. Also my buddy Kel (who personally knows a ton of the Japanese players) told me Rain was considered the best in Japan.

Just because you haven't heard of it doesn't mean it isn't true.

 

[Cassio]

I think Jebus is correct. There was no official list of who was best because different areas had different dominating people. I remember lots of blogs trying to figure this out and the final answer was there was no way to know. Rain and Brood maybe in the same area though or close to it.

 

[Strong Badam]

I think this is insane. Meta Knight has terrible B moves and they all send him into helpless fall afterward (or a ****ty glide that he's vulnerable during).

 

[Laem]

I think this is insane. Meta Knight has terrible B moves and they all send him into helpless fall afterward (or a ****ty glide that he's vulnerable during).

And now compare this to snake. NO HELPLESS ANIMATION AT ALL :OOOO

I think Jebus is correct. There was no official list of who was best because different areas had different dominating people. I remember lots of blogs trying to figure this out and the final answer was there was no way to know. Rain and Brood maybe in the same area though or close to it.

You're on to something there. Im 100% sure there's a division in japan, i think plain west/east, and rain was at best the best player of one of those regions. I've always been quite sure he was never better than 9B or Nietono in 2010.

 

[Judo777]

Which is the complete opposite of the U.S. where we have a complete list of the best players in order.............

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I think this is insane. Meta Knight has terrible B moves and they all send him into helpless fall afterward (or a ****ty glide that he's vulnerable during).

You can cancel the lag of all his b moves by using them at a certain height/landing from a certain height.


When MK was legal, there was no doubt that M2K was the best player in the US.

 

[Flayl]

That's why I pretty much don't recommend beginners that are trying out smash for the first time to pick him. I always recommend Game & Watch, Kirby, Ike, King Dedede or Donkey Kong - not necessarily in that order.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

When MK was legal, there was no doubt that M2K was the best player in the US.

Ally says hi.

 

[DMG]

MK and Ally swapped that title a few times.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Ally says hi.

Ally is from Canada

 

[DMG]

MFW Canada is taking over the world

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Ally is from Canada

You're right, my bad.

I knew he was from Canada, just didn't read your post properly lol

 

[Orion dura]

BLAAARRRGH!!! now I can't use MK,and I mastered him... *gloom*

 

[Orion dura]

Uh,btw,you guys are going off topic. *still,MK banned... T^T*

 

[Grim Tuesday]

For starters, don't double post.

The MK ban only applies to tournaments that follow the Unity Ruleset Committee's ruleset. If you don't attend tournaments, or the tournaments you do attend do not follow the Unity Ruleset then the MK ban will not affect you (there are still many tournaments that have Meta Knight legal).

 

[NovaAM]

T^T there's only a hand full of characters i'm good with including MK

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Why do you have... two accounts? o_O