Meta Knight Officially Banned!

[V]

HyperFalcon you played right into my statement.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

HyperFalcon you played right into my statement.

I'm still waiting for you to make a relevant point here. Don't make Jebus look good, man.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

But here's the thing: even if MK is the best in the game... So what? There is always a character that is the best.

u r dum 10char

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Even the best character has weaknesses when they're allowed in gameplay.

Beyond that, we have a reason to call broken or boss.(both fit quite well together as well)

 

[V]

Actually BPC is smart and both of you aren't.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

o ok gud point

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm still waiting for a relevant response from you. I'm sure you can do better than petty insults, V.

BPC actually really isn't in this case. He plays a different metagame and believes his has any effect on ours.

In the UK, there's no reason to ban MK. In the US and Canada there is. It's that simple.

 

[V]

I'm not playing this bull**** with you. This is all anybody does on here all day. I could make all the relevant responses in the world and you would still see what you choose to see and claim that it isn't relevant and the cycle goes on and on. It's a waste of time and I have nothing to prove to you. Bottom line is that you all complain about MK because you lose to him and you want things to be easier.

Now go ahead and claim victory because I said nothing back on the matter. Predictable.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm not playing this bull**** with you. This is all anybody does on here all day. I could make all the relevant responses in the world and you would still see what you choose to see and claim that it isn't relevant and the cycle goes on and on. It's a waste of time and I have nothing to prove to you. Bottom line is that you all complain about MK because you lose to him and you want things to be easier.

If any of that was true, you'd have something. I don't lose to MK at all. Way to assume instead of refuting my points. Once again, you're making Jebus look good. In fact, he's worth talking to, while you clearly are not.

If you can come back with points that weren't beyond easy to refute(let's note that those points were refuted multiple times by multiple people anyway throughout this topic), maybe you might have something. Till then, you don't. Keep trying though, this is pretty funny to read.

 

[Orion*]

Which is only Meta Knight. No other character has a plausible chance against him. People think it does, but no other character actually comes close to him. The only reason he loses is due strictly to human error, not because he's a fair character in any possible way.

-------

You're using a baseless theory to prove he's not broken.

I actually think you have to be the most uninformed person on smashboards. In general, I think the more on point players are, the more reasonable it is to beat MK. But more importantly, I would like to see you explain why he's completely unbeatable except for the fact of human error. You complain that people dodge your points, but all you've made are extremely salty and at best sub par ones.

You claim that without human error you can't beat MK. Yet absolutely none of the players that are actually even pushing for pro-ban seem to be implying that at this point (or at least the ones that matter...). If you actually are so confident of your almighty "based theory" please link me to data.

I would like to see frame by frame how mk actually completely shuts down everything other character in humanly perfect player and how these players have no options. If you can't even show this in some form of data, I seriously doubt you could apply to it to a real match or in your case even a video would be fairly sufficient.

If you could even apply it to one character that he has a relatively close mu with I would be impressed.
diddy/oli/falco/fox/whatever
pick and go bro

No, it really isn't. If everybody's at the top of their game, we'll get exact results. Of course it doesn't always happen, but that's why we have tons of matches to determine the best results.

Who are you to determine this?
In fact who is anyone to determine when any player is playing to their maximum potential, or to say where a characters metagame is pushed to. If you have an opinion that's great, but if you're just going to act like you know something and then not saying anything valuable it's annoying.

Everything that's "perfect play" is actually doable by a human. If they can't do it, then of course we don't take it into account. Everybody has the potential to do something when playing their best. If nobody can do it, it just doesn't count.

If this is the case then I have seen some dumb **** doable by humans, or specific players on a relatively consistent basis. **** I can say planking is unsafe and point out GIMR's video... and I can think of players that can do that off the top of my head at high level play. and I honestly think that the more prominent this gets the worse your argument gets.

You can argue that metaknight is the best character, and over centralizing the US scene, or you can even say you're just tired of the character. but what you're saying is flat out wrong.

You post anything anywhere at your own caution. If you think it's a good idea to point out something and not expect people to refute it if possible, then you shouldn't be posting in the first place

As thirsty as you are for trying to give it, I hope you take **** well LMAO wtf is this. Homie thinks this is like judge judy or something LOL

I'd believe that about M2K if he actually proved he could win without MK.

We've learned the match-up.

wtf is this we **** LOL
okay if someone posts they worked on the MK mu that's great. I know plenty of people that do know and are pro ban, and that's fine. But you're acting like you're speaking for some larger *** entity other than yourself that clearly doesn't exist.

I will be honest, most players suck *** at this game.

The community does not decide the ban list.

once again if anything if who are you to decide that?
if 75% of the community honestly thinks MK being banned would help or not help the tournament scene and then actively would go and boost the significantly declining tournament attendance then i wouldn't mind if a scene had him banned or unbanned.

 

[V]

You are ****ing stupid and don't even realize it which is even funnier. You claim MK is too broken because of tournament results, tournament results that have too many variables to be taken as concrete evidence. Everything said about the meta game improving with him gone is speculation. Everything said about him ONLY losing because of human error is speculation. Would you care to explain how at Apex M2K 3 stocked Brood game 1 yet went on to lose the set? Are you saying M2K suddenly started to play bad after a victory such as game 1? How about Brood adapted and outplayed him. There is no proof that MK is so broken to deserve a ban because there has been ZERO testing at a national level with him banned. Perhaps M2K doesn't want to devote time to another character just to prove a point to you.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I actually think you have to be the most uninformed person on smashboards. In general, I think the more on point players are, the more reasonable it is to beat MK. But more importantly, I would like to see you explain why he's completely unbeatable except for the fact of human error. You complain that people dodge your points, but all you've made are extremely salty and at best sub par ones.

Uh-huh. None of these prove what I said wrong. Pot shots don't really help you here.

You claim that without human error you can't beat MK. Yet absolutely none of the players that are actually even pushing for pro-ban seem to be implying that at this point (or at least the ones that matter...). If you actually are so confident of your almighty "based theory" please link me to data.

I cannot. As I said before, he's pretty much the equivalent of a boss. Bosses don't screw up, but he does. But it doesn't change that many who have played the match-up in this thread alone have specifically said they're only waiting for MK to screw up so they have a chance to win. I will drop the human error thing, despite experience saying otherwise.

I would like to see frame by frame how mk actually completely shuts down everything other character in humanly perfect player and how these players have no options. If you can't even show this in some form of data, I seriously doubt you could apply to it to a real match or in your case even a video would be fairly sufficient.

As I said before, I cannot. I'll let those who actually have proven this do that. I only can tell the truth, but they can show the data better.

If you could even apply it to one character that he has a relatively close mu with I would be impressed.
diddy/oli/falco/fox/whatever
pick and go bro

And how many of those are winning almost 50% of the tournaments and have no bad match-ups? They're not comparable to what he is.

Who are you to determine this?
In fact who is anyone to determine when any player is playing to their maximum potential, or to say where a characters metagame is pushed to. If you have an opinion that's great, but if you're just going to act like you know something and then not saying anything valuable it's annoying.

It means they are playing with as few screw-ups as possible. That's the top of the game.

If this is the case then I have seen some dumb **** doable by humans, or specific players on a relatively consistent basis. **** I can say planking is unsafe and point out GIMR's video... and I can think of players that can do that off the top of my head at high level play. and I honestly think that the more prominent this gets the worse your argument gets.

Planking is unsafe for everyone but MK. That's the huge difference. He has invincibility frames in his Air Up A that nobody else does. Name someone who's planking wasn't beaten later on reasonably.

You can argue that metaknight is the best character, and over centralizing the US scene, or you can even say you're just tired of the character. but what you're saying is flat out wrong.

Nope. Playing at the best, MK just does not lose. Why? He has everything that makes sure he doesn't. He's a boss by what all he has.

wtf is this we **** LOL
okay if someone posts they worked on the MK mu that's great. I know plenty of people that do know and are pro ban, and that's fine. But you're acting like you're speaking for some larger *** entity other than yourself that clearly doesn't exist.

You mean despite the fact instead of proving he was that awesome, he ragequits and doesn't play another character? Pretty hard to believe he's winning because of his own skill when he refuses to show it. Likewise, he's still acting severely immaturely about the ban. It's a character. I'm sure if he's good as they say he is, he'd go back to his earlier main, and prove that. As of right now, he isn't showing any more than MK is broken. I'm actually speaking a pretty damn good theory here.

I will be honest, most players suck *** at this game.

Uh-huh. And they won't much get better if they always lose because of the Bat. If other characters are going to flourish, they need opponents that are beatable by any reasonable percentage. That is, they have character weaknesses to exploit. The problem is, we can't exploit MK's weaknesses because he has none. We can only exploit the human weakness. That also means that if the player is the true skill, then they don't need MK either. That would change up the metagame and would allow new strategies. The game is very stale right now because we aren't have any new winners.

once again if anything if who are you to decide that?
if 75% of the community honestly thinks MK being banned would help or not help the tournament scene and then actively would go and boost the significantly declining tournament attendance then i wouldn't mind if a scene had him banned or unbanned.

Read the post I was talking about. I was talking about the Yu-Gi-Oh Ban List in that sentence, not ours. Of course the community decides THIS one. And frankly, they made the best possible decision. Also, we've had better tournament attendance as well.

I'd reply to V, but he clearly has nothing respectable to say any longer. Once again, making Jebus look good. The second he starts going for petty insults is the second his words are no longer relevant.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

V, a little hint about arguments:

You can't avoid responding to them and just go "this is all everyone does here". Not how it works. Have you ever been in an actual debate or anything? If you don't respond to a point, you are conceding to it. That's how it is for any argument. Trying to bring up a different argument without answer the point doesn't work either.

 

[Orion*]

Which is only Meta Knight. No other character has a plausible chance against him. People think it does, but no other character actually comes close to him. The only reason he loses is due strictly to human error, not because he's a fair character in any possible way.

-------

You're using a baseless theory to prove he's not broken.

I actually think you have to be the most uninformed person on smashboards. In general, I think the more on point players are, the more reasonable it is to beat MK. But more importantly, I would like to see you explain why he's completely unbeatable except for the fact of human error. You complain that people dodge your points, but all you've made are extremely salty and at best sub par ones.

You claim that without human error you can't beat MK. Yet absolutely none of the players that are actually even pushing for pro-ban seem to be implying that at this point (or at least the ones that matter...). If you actually are so confident of your almighty "based theory" please link me to data.

I would like to see frame by frame how mk actually completely shuts down everything other character in humanly perfect player and how these players have no options. If you can't even show this in some form of data, I seriously doubt you could apply to it to a real match or in your case even a video would be fairly sufficient.

If you could even apply it to one character that he has a relatively close mu with I would be impressed.
diddy/oli/falco/fox/whatever
pick and go bro

No, it really isn't. If everybody's at the top of their game, we'll get exact results. Of course it doesn't always happen, but that's why we have tons of matches to determine the best results.

Who are you to determine this?
In fact who is anyone to determine when any player is playing to their maximum potential, or to say where a characters metagame is pushed to. If you have an opinion that's great, but if you're just going to act like you know something and then not saying anything valuable it's annoying.

Everything that's "perfect play" is actually doable by a human. If they can't do it, then of course we don't take it into account. Everybody has the potential to do something when playing their best. If nobody can do it, it just doesn't count.

If this is the case then I have seen some dumb **** doable by humans, or specific players on a relatively consistent basis. **** I can say planking is unsafe and point out GIMR's video... and I can think of players that can do that off the top of my head at high level play. and I honestly think that the more prominent this gets the worse your argument gets.

You can argue that metaknight is the best character, and over centralizing the US scene, or you can even say you're just tired of the character. but what you're saying is flat out wrong.

You post anything anywhere at your own caution. If you think it's a good idea to point out something and not expect people to refute it if possible, then you shouldn't be posting in the first place

As thirsty as you are for trying to give it, I hope you take **** well LMAO wtf is this. Homie thinks this is like judge judy or something LOL

I'd believe that about M2K if he actually proved he could win without MK.

edit i didnt write in here lol
M2K isn't even like... a question skill wise. Now only was he winning with DDD before, Homie like not only invented the entire characters metagame, but is the most technical, fluid and consistent player overall in brawl, he also was the king of melee for a significant period of time and still dominates in both games. Overall he is probably the best smasher in general considering his placings in both singles and teams for melee and brawl.

We've learned the match-up.

wtf is this we **** LOL
okay if someone posts they worked on the MK mu that's great. I know plenty of people that do know and are pro ban, and that's fine. But you're acting like you're speaking for some larger *** entity other than yourself that clearly doesn't exist.

I will be honest, most players suck *** at this game.

The community does not decide the ban list.

once again if anything if who are you to decide that?
if 75% of the community honestly thinks MK being banned would help or not help the tournament scene and then actively would go and boost the significantly declining tournament attendance then i wouldn't mind if a scene had him banned or unbanned.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I can't believe there are people who think the minority has a right to demand we do anything

 

[Cassio]

SFP if youre wrong youre wrong. Cant get around that no matter what side of the majority youre on.

But hyperfalcon hasnt even been arguing. All he does is call others opinions uninformed, state his opinion, and then tell people to prove him wrongut

 

[V]

^ exactly

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I already responded to your earlier one, Cassio.

Look, I know I'm not the ultimate best or whatever. I never will be.

SPP is correct on what he just said, though. Neither of us have the right to demand anything. We put out our reasons. Right now, you guys are defending MK being perfectly legal.(in fact, Jebus actually had the BEST ideas for it. Equal LGL, more courses) Although we're better off with no LGL since it doesn't prevent planking anyway.

Anyway, I do believe all of that, and unfortunately I cannot perfectly defend most of it. So I think I'm better off conceding that specific thing: That I cannot completely prove it by myself.

With that said, it's probably better not to respond. I apologize if I annoyed you, but too many people honestly keep sprouting of the really horrible argument of "get better". It's really bad because it does not apply in this case. To give two examples: You can get better against a blatantly overpowered boss because they cannot adapt to you. You can always get better against a character provided that they are not overpowered and have weaknesses.

 

[da K.I.D.]

SFP if youre wrong youre wrong. Cant get around that no matter what side of the majority youre on.

But hyperfalcon hasnt even been arguing. All he does is call others opinions uninformed, state his opinion, and then tell people to prove him wrongut

At this point in the game, since hes actually banned, theres really nothing wrong with that last part anymore.

 

[Cassio]

No one was trying to convince him in the first place. V gave his thoughts and HF decided to "prove" they were wrong because they didnt match what he thought.

As Orion pointed out HF didnt so much make an argument as throw out a bunch of claims conflicting with V without proving them.

 

[Orion*]

As I said before, I cannot. I'll let those who actually have proven this do that. I only can tell the truth, but they can show the data better.

Who has proven this with what data?
inb4 ****ing john#s/ripple chart because that doesnt answer what I asked.
I like how you can be so confident in what you're saying with not understanding any of the data you're talking about in the first place though.

And how many of those are winning almost 50% of the tournaments and have no bad match-ups? They're not comparable to what he is.

Like regardless of this opinion, I would like to ask you to read my post better. That was Not how I was comparing them, I just asked you list options/data in comparison to metaknight with another decent character and show how they have "no" options.

He has invincibility frames in his Air Up A that nobody else does.

no he doesn't ....
however i'm going to hope you halfway know what you mean and just kept in context of him being at the ledge. plenty of characters actually have invincible uairs, or aerials from the ledge in general actually. MKs uair is just extremely safe and he has jumps to make the risk reward more in his favor.

Name someone who's planking wasn't beaten later on reasonably.

name a large tournament where someone just planked their way to victory.

I'm actually speaking a pretty damn good theory here.

you haven't actually said the basis of your theorys, but just what the outcomes are. it would be like if I said Purple is a combination of the primary colors Yellow and Red, but then when I was asked for an explanation I just copped out and said, herp derp someone else can explain that better I just know what I'm saying.

Either know what you're talking about, link me to someone that does, or be silent I'm sorry this is so agitating

The problem is, we can't exploit MK's weaknesses because he has none.

Everything in this game in general has a counter, and if MK has something that is absolutely 100% unbeatable once again I would like to ask you to show it to me.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Everything in this game in general has a counter, and if MK has something that is absolutely 100% unbeatable once again I would like to ask you to show it to me.

There's a funny little thing about his cape if you use the c-stick....

 

[Orion*]

There's a funny little thing about his cape if you use the c-stick....

-dead- ......

XD

^you got me LOOOOOOOOOL
**** doesnt even come to head because like it's been banned for so long I just don't think about it. Let's leave banned things out of this though, or I might as well just state infinites and then it gets to this discussion of arbitrary **** that nobody answers.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Who has proven this with what data?
inb4 ****ing john#s/ripple chart because that doesnt answer what I asked.
I like how you can be so confident in what you're saying with not understanding any of the data you're talking about in the first place though.

That's why I exactly said to let them speak for it. So drop this part please.

Like regardless of this opinion, I would like to ask you to read my post better. That was Not how I was comparing them, I just asked you list options/data in comparison to metaknight with another decent character and show how they have "no" options.

I already said I couldn't

no he doesn't ....
however i'm going to hope you halfway know what you mean and just kept in context of him being at the ledge. plenty of characters actually have invincible uairs, or aerials from the ledge in general actually. MKs uair is just extremely safe and he has jumps to make the risk reward more in his favor.

Yeah, that's what I actually meant. My bad.

name a large tournament where someone just planked their way to victory.

I already said I cannot. Others can provide this. And I know no one can, even though it literally is possible, nobody has.

you haven't actually said the basis of your theorys, but just what the outcomes are. it would be like if I said Purple is a combination of the primary colors Yellow and Red, but then when I was asked for an explanation I just copped out and said, herp derp someone else can explain that better I just know what I'm saying.

That too many people are complaining about MK being banned because it's all they use to win. Likewise, that their skill is more related to MK than the ability to truly adapt and being the true best player. I actually want to believe M2K is that good, so all he has to do is show that he's that good. Without using MK, I'm sure he'll do just fine. He just refuses to.

Either know what you're talking about, link me to someone that does, or be silent I'm sorry this is so agitating

I reiterate: I cannot.

Everything in this game in general has a counter, and if MK has something that is absolutely 100% unbeatable once again I would like to ask you to show it to me.

Please counter a random bob-omb falling upon you in Item Play. You can't. That'll happen sometimes no matter what, and it's impossible to stop it since you can't cancel every attack.

As for your full question, his planking. If it was beatable, it would have unsafe options. It in general has not been beaten, it's just the player had to stop due to it being too hard to keep going.

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

I'm still waiting for you to make a relevant point here. Don't make Jebus look good, man.

He doesn't have to, you're doing that already.

Even the best character has weaknesses when they're allowed in gameplay.

Like a low air speed, low weight, and no projectiles?

We've been over this before... I'm not going to say that this makes a huge difference, or that MK can't make up for them. But it still means that claiming that MK has no weaknesses is faulty. I call dying a good 10-30% earlier to snake's utilt than much of the rest of the cast a weakness. I call needing to wait out a banana stall because you don't have a way to force diddy out a weakness. Just sayin'. What's more, even if a character doesn't have any weaknesses, they can still be beaten by characters with more strengths; for example, if MK really has no weaknesses, but gets (hypothetically) beaten in the matchup by snake due to snake's high kill power and stage control, despite snake's weaknesses, it doesn't matter that he has no weaknesses.

BPC actually really isn't in this case. He plays a different metagame and believes his has any effect on ours.

In the UK, there's no reason to ban MK. In the US and Canada there is. It's that simple.

Germany, actually. ^^ But yeah, I agree. The ban in the USA really was not an awful idea. It remains a terrible idea almost everywhere else, simply because MK is not presenting a problem, but in the USA, it's not that bad of an idea. The main reason I'm debating your crap here is because what you trot out as reasons isn't the massive devolvement of the metagame. It's "OH MY GOD MK IS THE IVAN OOZE OF BRAWL". Which is really, really dumb, and really, really false.

 

[Orion*]

That's why I exactly said to let them speak for it. So drop this part please.

The problem is I doubt either ripple or john#s would do that. They both have their data and their opinions but I seriously don't think they have the frame at hand memorized for any character and can make any accurate analyzation of the data if they did. It's not even an insult but it's mostly because they just don't even analyze their own data, and they've both made posts in the pasts not understanding basic parts of the character... so expecting them to analyze it just seems like a bad idea.

There is no recent data to conclude anything, in fact the best data I've seen against MK is DMGs planking thread. There is no large tournaments won through just planking. There also isn't any thread analyzing the frame data of said characters into options.

Please counter a random bob-omb falling upon you in Item Play. You can't. That'll happen sometimes no matter what, and it's impossible to stop it since you can't cancel every attack.

As for your full question, his planking. If it was beatable, it would have unsafe options. It in general has not been beaten, it's just the player had to stop due to it being too hard to keep going.

For the sake of you being a smart *** sure you can keep your random bomb omb argument. But outside of tripping, which every character has MK is extremely consistent as a character, so in the competitive version of the game that we are discussing and playing I would like to re ask the question.

As for planking. This is false. It's pretty gay and unreasonable, and I am pro ban if there is no LGL. However you can do gimrs issdi buffer attack at the ledge to punish it. It's definitely within human range of something we can do, in fact I saw atomsk do it to pelca with a fart just a few days ago in a teams video.

In general though, since planking is banned and there has never been any large scale tournaments won by planking (because of the pretty immediate ban, with good reason) there's not much of a reason for people to even develop a large metagame against it. It makes much more sense to just wait for MK to come onstage and stay in your advantageous position... But even then there is an option against frame perfect planking.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The problem is I doubt either ripple or john#s would do that. They both have their data and their opinions but I seriously don't think they have the frame at hand memorized for any character and can make any accurate analyzation of the data if they did. It's not even an insult but it's mostly because they just don't even analyze their own data, and they've both made posts in the pasts not understanding basic parts of the character... so expecting them to analyze it just seems like a bad idea.

I did not say who. I meant frame data that people have collected. And I think their data is pretty correct, since it's talking about the winnings specifically.

There is no recent data to conclude anything, in fact the best data I've seen against MK is DMGs planking thread. There is no large tournaments won through just planking. There also isn't any thread analyzing the frame data of said characters into options.

Alright.

For the sake of you being a smart *** sure you can keep your random bomb omb argument. But outside of tripping, which every character has MK is extremely consistent as a character, so in the competitive version of the game that we are discussing and playing I would like to re ask the question.

I only take exactly what he said. I'm not going to read between the lines, because I'll use exact words so I don't misinterpret anything. If he meant something within competitive gameplay, then I cannot answer directly.

As for planking. This is false. It's pretty gay and unreasonable, and I am pro ban if there is no LGL. However you can do gimrs issdi buffer attack at the ledge to punish it. It's definitely within human range of something we can do, in fact I saw atomsk do it to pelca with a fart just a few days ago in a teams video.

Okay, but how often can we punish it? That's my big question.

In general though, since planking is banned and there has never been any large scale tournaments won by planking (because of the pretty immediate ban, with good reason) there's not much of a reason for people to even develop a large metagame against it. It makes much more sense to just wait for MK to come onstage and stay in your advantageous position... But even then there is an option against frame perfect planking.

I had no idea Planking just got banned, I will admit. And what is that option then?

I know that DK's planking has been beaten pretty decently, same with Pit's.

Also, unrelated, but I just talked with a player who thinks Link is severely underrated and could easily take on an MK.

 

[Anthon1996]

Also, unrelated, but I just talked with a player who thinks Link is severely underrated and could easily take on an MK.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=umDr0mPuyQc

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Whoa, guys. A PLAYER? I can't wait to hear about it!

 

[Grim Tuesday]

He was obviously talking about Player-1.

Obviously.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

No, just a person who knows less than Brawl than me.(I ain't no expert, but seriously, saying Link is actually pretty good?)

He was named MasterKnight. I'll be honest, he "facts" baffle me. Link's Spin Attack is hard to block or dodge? Really? It's pretty slow, and doesn't help much, since he'll rarely get off his attacks anyway. I do honestly think he plays at the lowest levels and doesn't recognize or research what REALLY happens at mid-level or higher play.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm left wondering why you even brought it up in the first place.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Because it was funny to facepalm at someone who makes me look intelligent. Self-loathing aside, I never meant for the derail.

That was just something for people to have a good laugh at and to cool the moods down. I apologize, though.

 

[Spelt]

Because it was funny to facepalm at someone who makes me look intelligent.

Especially considering how hard that is to do.

 

[John12346]

and they've both made posts in the pasts not understanding basic parts of the character... so expecting them to analyze it just seems like a bad idea.

Bleugh if you're talking about that reverse UpB thing from underneath the ledge I was prattling on about back then... well, let's just say my naivety levels have lowered by quite a considerable amount. Back in the day, I had trouble controlling urges to spew extravagant nonsense, and I tended to just shoot my mouth off like a total idiot.

Not gonna get into specifics, but someone I know beat the living **** out of those urges for me. Hard.

The point is, I make sure what I say nowadays is correct now before saying anything about it, and I make sure I don't make myself look like a complete ****** when I discuss things... I know this is unrelated, but I just don't want you, nor anyone else to get the wrong idea about me from my misdoings back in the past years...

With all that said, though, yeah, I'm not the one who knows how to analyze frame data down to the extent where I could talk about how it would shift matchups or w/e. The best I could do is give a decent synopsis about the various tools MK's got, and how it allows him to compete in each individual matchup, which isn't what we're looking for at the moment. As you said, if we want information, framewise, about MK, DMG is likely the go-to guy about this, since he's done some serious business research into it in the past, plus I seem to recall him expressing an interest into discussing MK's moveset really recently.

Prolly would be a good idea to get into the topic now. DMG, where you at?

 

[Omega Tyrant]

No, just a person who knows less than Brawl than me.(I ain't no expert, but seriously, saying Link is actually pretty good?)

He was named MasterKnight. I'll be honest, he "facts" baffle me. Link's Spin Attack is hard to block or dodge? Really? It's pretty slow, and doesn't help much, since he'll rarely get off his attacks anyway. I do honestly think he plays at the lowest levels and doesn't recognize or research what REALLY happens at mid-level or higher play.

Is it MasterKnight DH? If so, he claimed edgeguarding is irrelevant to a character's recovery capabilities, and that when edgeguarding, it's always equal risk/reward for both sides, regardless of character. And then he throws red herrings and insults you if you prove him wrong.

So yeah, don't take anything he says seriously.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Oh hey, its the SmashWiki guy.

Hello!

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Oh hey, its the SmashWiki guy.

Hello!

Oh hai Grim

 

[Orion*]

The point is, I make sure what I say nowadays is correct now before saying anything about it, and I make sure I don't make myself look like a complete ****** when I discuss things... I know this is unrelated, but I just don't want you, nor anyone else to get the wrong idea about me from my misdoings back in the past years...

With all that said, though, yeah, I'm not the one who knows how to analyze frame data down to the extent where I could talk about how it would shift matchups or w/e. The best I could do is give a decent synopsis about the various tools MK's got, and how it allows him to compete in each individual matchup, which isn't what we're looking for at the moment. As you said, if we want information, framewise, about MK, DMG is likely the go-to guy about this, since he's done some serious business research into it in the past, plus I seem to recall him expressing an interest into discussing MK's moveset really recently.

Prolly would be a good idea to get into the topic now. DMG, where you at?

In all honesty I was thinking more of ripple when I made that post LMAO. But like, I can understand if you really studied more on the subject and am willing to even give you the benefit of the doubt. But I don't ever see posts on it from you anymore in the first place so it's hard for me to say otherwise, maybe I'm just in the wrong the threads so I'm missing it but like loool I do read a lot.

But my point would still stand that I do think that you wouldnt be someone I would ask to analyze frame data regarding a MU. I would go to DMG, Neo, Pierce, or M2K first.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Is it MasterKnight DH? If so, he claimed edgeguarding is irrelevant to a character's recovery capabilities, and that when edgeguarding, it's always equal risk/reward for both sides, regardless of character. And then he throws red herrings and insults you if you prove him wrong.

So yeah, don't take anything he says seriously.

...Yeah, that's the guy. Wow, claiming edge guarding isn't relevant? Jeez...

Anyway, yeah.