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Meta Knight Officially Banned!

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Regarding GC controllers, I only have one good one left, the rest I played too much and the control sticks are getting out of whack (by which I mean they'd suddenly recalibrate slightly, specifically they'd get pushed down a hair and be constantly tilting upwards, making character selection stupid and anything involving tapping upwards even stupider). I have a friend with some VERY good ones she didn't use often but I was unable to get her to part with any.

New rule: MK has to play with one of my broken controllers. :troll:
Can you tell how I keep my c-stick in shape on those things? I swear everything I get a new gamecube the c-stick stops working after only a few weeks of play.
 

manofgames4555

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Lawl, p glad to be in europe atm. I know some consider MK to be unfair, but this is absolutely ridiculous
You haven't played our meta knights...we got people that make you put the controller down consistently. That's absolutely ridiculous. Smash is a game and skill should be able to spread to other character use either way. So top player will still be that. Whether they are playing chess or checkers. If you understand what I'm getting at. We have collectively evolved meta knight 100 times lol! It is time..."The sun will come out tomorrow"!
 

link2702

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love anti-ban's logic sometimes.


"mk should not be banned just because a few TO's said so, the community needs a say in this!"

*a public poll was held where 76% of the community voted FOR the ban.*

"uhh..well mk should not be banned just to give mediocre players a chance"

*then proof is shown that most pro players except for a few mk mains all wanted him banned as well*

"you shouldn't compare brawl to other fighting game communities"

*anti ban then goes right on their word and trys to compare brawl to another community hoping to get their point across*


"people are gonna QUIT brawl if mk is banned"

*even though many players who have already left said they are willing to come back now that meta is gone, the only player i've seen so far who said he's "outright quitting" cuz of the mk ban is M2K.*



love anit-bans logic sometimes..
 

Smooth Criminal

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I love pro-ban's logic sometimes. They put up numbers about placement and money when it doesn't even matter, and then they focus on it like it's their #1 reason why they banned the character to start with.

:troll: Anything you can do, I can do better.

Smooth Criminal
 

link2702

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not really smooth, pro ban has something anti ban doesn't; Data and statistics to back up their claims.

anti-ban doesn't really have anything to back up what they say, the only excuse most of em try to use, is "learn the matchupz!!!!

cuz you know...after three years, and extensive study, and how on pretty much every character board in the game the mk matchup topic is the most active on the board, people still haven't "learned" the matchup.
:troll:
 

Ripple

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anti-ban has the same access to statistics and charts that pro-ban has. its how you evaluate them.

most people are dumb if they would out right ban MK because he was 20% of the MG and won 35-50% of the money.
 

Smooth Criminal

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anti-ban has the same access to statistics and charts that pro-ban has. its how you evaluate them.

most people are dumb if they would out right ban MK because he was 20% of the MG and won 35-50% of the money.
I should prolly amend what I said:

The URC champions that kind of data like it's a big deal. Some of the more sensible anti-banners have more plausible reasons, sure, but the URC seems to ride on it the hardest.

My bad.

Smooth Criminal
 

Thino

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anti-ban has the same access to statistics and charts that pro-ban has. its how you evaluate them.

most people are dumb if they would out right ban MK because he was 20% of the MG and won 35-50% of the money.
very well said.

and pro-bans set these arbitrary threshold about "if a character wins X number of tournament or X amount of money, therefore he's broken".

based on what? why do stats even matter in determining that a character is broken?
 

Circle_Breaker

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i think the real story with meta knight is that he is never disadvantaged anywhere and completely breaks metagaming with counterpicks. he's a get out of jail free card. he might have been beatable but the game will be more fun and more competitively diverse without him. not to mention (maybe the best argument of all) too many unintuitive rules have been implemented to "fix" parts of the game he breaks. (I guess this needs to be said for the hundredth time in the thread)

and I think from a game design perspective, brawl is better with MK gone. it doesn't matter when it comes to the philosophy of banning, I guess, but the brawl metagame is a lot more interesting w/ a more evenly distributed risk/reward ratio in character choice now.
 

Smooth Criminal

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i think the real story with meta knight is that he is never disadvantaged anywhere and completely breaks metagaming with counterpicks. he's a get out of jail free card. he might have been beatable but the game will be more fun and more competitively diverse without him. not to mention (maybe the best argument of all) too many unintuitive rules have been implemented to "fix" parts of the game he breaks.
Barring the struck-through part...? That's fine. I can (kind of) get behind that. I think it's still arguable, but at least insofar as it can be contended on a level where certain finite details about the game itself matter.

Money and tournament placing have no place in that sort of argument. It's about whether or not the character breaks the game you're playing, not how much money they're accruing.

Smooth Criminal
 

Thino

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i think the real story with meta knight is that he is never disadvantaged anywhere and completely breaks metagaming with counterpicks. he's a get out of jail free card. he might have been beatable but the game will be more fun and more competitively diverse without him. not to mention (maybe the best argument of all) too many unintuitive rules have been implemented to "fix" parts of the game he breaks. (I guess this needs to be said for the hundredth time in the thread)

and I think from a game design perspective, brawl is better with MK gone. it doesn't matter when it comes to the philosophy of banning, I guess, but the brawl metagame is a lot more interesting w/ a more evenly distributed risk/reward ratio in character choice now.
What if he breaks metagaming with counterpicks? counterpicks is something that was created by the community, if a character happens to break it, then change it or remove it.

What's with "metagaming" itself anyway? why force the metagame to evolve, or try to change it when it's frozen by a character? Is it thirst for variety or cure for boredom that makes people want to evolve the metagame?

FUN and COMPETITIVE DIVERSITY is what matters to you pro-ban guys and THESE are the reasons why you guys banned MK, I wish you guys would be more honest about it instead of telling stuff like stats, metagame or rules like those things could matter in determining a character is broken.

you guys are bored of seeing MK winning all the money and all the Nationals, that's the only reason why statistics would matter to you

I like how what you claim to be the best argument break the ruleset made by the community and not the actual game, how can you argue about game design when a character breaks something made up by the community?

too many unintuitive rules have been implemented to "fix" parts of the ruleset made by the BBR he breaks, aka the WAY you want to play the game and not the game itself.

Brawl metagame being more interesting is another reason, but please tell us he's banned only because of those, because that is the way you pro-bans want the game to be.

It's more fun.
It's more diverse.
Most of TO's agree with it.
76% of the community agree.

But it's not as competitive as it was before
 

Ripple

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then suggest something we can do other than CP so that he won't break the system
 

Johnknight1

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i think the real story with meta knight is that he is never disadvantaged anywhere and completely breaks metagaming with counterpicks.
Well if we should ban Meta Knight for not having any disadvantages in Brawl, we should also ban Pikachu in Smash 64, Fox in Melee, and Marth in Melee. By that logic, most fighting games would have banned characters.

On top of that, several fighting games have characters with 60/40 matchups or better against the other top tier characters, yet they remain unbanned.

As for your counter pick logic, just ban Meta Knight from counter picking non-neutral stages, or on specific stages like Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise. Really that isn't that hard to enforce, and next to no one has tried it. Try it out, and if it works, great. If not, find another solution (banning planking, lulz), or ban those stages (as much as I hate to say that for Rainbow Cruise).

love anti-ban's logic sometimes.

"mk should not be banned just because a few TO's said so, the community needs a say in this!"

*a public poll was held where 76% of the community voted FOR the ban.*
You do realize anyone could vote on it, right=??? Including folks who don't play smash competitively, or play Melee competitively...

That's like Canadians voting in a American election, or vice versa. It don't involve you, so GTFO noob.

On top of that, there have been 7 "Final Polls" on the Meta Knight ban, with all but the first (which had like 5,000 votes, mostly by n00bs, scrubs, and people who want the smash ball legal), and the last resulting in more anti-bans than bans. Really, shouldn't these polls continue until we have more pro-ban result polls than anti-ban result polls=??? We should wait until 6 more polls run legitimately with proof that you attended a tournament to rule whether Meta Knight should be banned or not over the course of the time frame (as in the gap between each polls). Of course, that would take about 4 years or so.

This also shows that the URC wanted him ban, on top of the years of gay rules, gay stages, and movement to make the URC overrule anything the Brawl Back Room rules upon. I've been aware of this for nearly 2 years, and others have theorized that there has been a conspiracy to ban Meta Knight since around the time of the first Meta Knight ban poll. Since then, various people strongly for the Meta Knight ban have been accepted into the Brawl Back Room (and then the URC), whereas few anti-Meta Knight ban people were allowed into the Brawl Back Room, and none into the URC. Oh, and no one in the URC mains (or I think even uses) Meta Knight.

The BBR use to run everything. The Brawl Back Room consists of the top players and TO's. They make sense. They made rules that advanced Brawl competitively, much like the Melee Back Room did with Melee. Now, the Brawl Back Room is no different from the Brawl Competitive discussion, other than the fact it is private.

Plus the URC is run by mostly unknowns, several of whom are inactive in Brawl. That's like putting a retired military commander from World War I in charge of an army today. Crap ain't the same today.

"uhh..well mk should not be banned just to give mediocre players a chance"

*then proof is shown that most pro players except for a few mk mains all wanted him banned as well*
Are you referring to that All is Brawl post=??? Many of them wanted to test it out. Several said they want Meta Knight-banned tournaments to be more prominent, but not be at every national tournament (and I strongly agree with this sentiment, and have been saying it for years).

You also do realize pro-Meta Knight banned people are more often n00bs who don't even play smash competitively, right=???

"you shouldn't compare brawl to other fighting game communities"

*anti ban then goes right on their word and trys to compare brawl to another community hoping to get their point across*
Who the hell says you can't compare smash to other 2D fighting games=??? The only thing you can't compare are the stage aspect, since nearly every other 2D fighting games have invisible walls and is played a flat stage, and it is the first to get KO'd, not the first to get knocked off the screen.

Other than that, references to other fighting games are totally relevant. For example, Meta Knight has all 50-50 match ups with all or nearly all the top tier characters. There are characters in several fighting games that have all 60/40 odds or better against all the other top tier characters.

"people are gonna QUIT brawl if mk is banned"

*even though many players who have already left said they are willing to come back now that meta is gone, the only player i've seen so far who said he's "outright quitting" cuz of the mk ban is M2K.*
Actually, there is a Meta Knight-main movement to still play with Meta Knight-banned and win with other characters to prove that Meta Knight isn't broken; they are. So far, several Meta Knight mains have won Meta Knight-banned tournaments with other characters just as successfully.

As for M2K, he just quit URC rule set tournaments. URC rule set tournaments accounted for 60% or so of tournaments over the course of August, and I expect that number to drop.

Melee is already bigger at nationals, Melee's community dominates in areas like New York, and the Melee rule set committee actually has faith in their game competitively. :troll:

*goes to play the better Smash Bros. game that the competitive community for said actually has faith in the game competitively*

None of your points give specific examples of people saying that. Mine you can see every other post by some ran-dumb smasher who probably doesn't know the difference between the L-button and the R-button, and plays the game with the Wiimote and Nunchucks with the shake smash function on.

On top of that, you have Pit as your avatar, and as we all know, Pit mains are 100 times worse than Melee Peach mains. :troll: :troll: :troll:

On top of that, Meta Knight still ain't as broken as Pikachu in Smash 64.

And no way is Meta Knight as broken in Brawl as Isai in Smash 64. BAN ISAI IN SMASH SIXTY-FOURRRR!!!! :laugh:
 

Steam

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on the Meta Knight ban, with all but the first (which had like 5,000 votes, mostly by n00bs, scrubs, and people who want the smash ball legal), and the last resulting in more anti-bans than bans.
This is incorrect. all of them except maybe the first had reached a majority to ban MK.

and it's not one thing in particular that makes MK ban worthy, it's a combination of things that does it.

yeah sure sagat in SF4 had matchups like MK... but he never won anything.

even then keep in mind MKs matchups are decided with specific rules in place limiting him. with no LGL ( a fair ruleset ) he'd hard counter the entire roster as all the characters who normally stand a decent chance against him can't really combat his planking... well not many characters can to begin with...
 

Thino

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and it's not one thing in particular that makes MK ban worthy, it's a combination of things that does it.
How do you decide that a specific combination of things makes a character ban-worthy that's what I wanna understand.

is it winning tournaments+no bad matchups?

is it additional rules+unpopularity?

is it breaking CP+money won by MKs?

a combination of all above?

what's the math behind all this and how do you guys decide that by the sum of all these, a character is ban-worthy?

That is mysterious to me, I swear.
 

Steam

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How do you decide that a specific combination of things makes a character ban-worthy that's what I wanna understand.

is it winning tournaments+no bad matchups?

is it additional rules+unpopularity?

is it breaking CP+money won by MKs?

a combination of all above?

what's the math behind all this and how do you guys decide that by the sum of all these, a character is ban-worthy?

That is mysterious to me, I swear.
that varies from person to person.
 

Johnknight1

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anti-ban doesn't really have anything to back up what they say, the only excuse most of em try to use, is "learn the matchupz!!!!

cuz you know...after three years, and extensive study, and how on pretty much every character board in the game the mk matchup topic is the most active on the board, people still haven't "learned" the matchup.
:troll:
So Cal (aka the most active smash scene) has learned the match up. That's why they are likely not going to host many Meta Knight-banned tournaments, even though they have all kinds of great Meta Knight players who can own you.

All you got to do is compare So Cal to Nor Cal (I'm from Nor Cal by the way). In So Cal all the Meta Knights come here and own us here in Nor Cal, because we aren't as good as them. So we whine and complain, and had Meta Knight banned tournaments here and there for a year or two. The results?

When So Cal came, they still owned us with Meta Knight banned. Tru fax bro.

This is incorrect. all of them except maybe the first had reached a majority to ban MK.
Well didn't I say all of the polls but the first and last one resulted in the majority saying Meta Knight should be banned=??? The other 5 or so showed that the community was anti-ban.

and it's not one thing in particular that makes MK ban worthy, it's a combination of things that does it.
Of course. Just like there's a combination of things that show that Meta Knight isn't ban worthy.

And how does any combination of things make him ban-worthy=??? That is completely subjective. You could say Meta Knight having a ridiculous recovery makes him ban-worthy. You could say Meta Knight having overpowered kill moves makes him ban-worthy (which other characters also have). Heck, you could Meta Knight having a cape makes him ban-worthy.

Really, there is no rule or universal thing that makes a character nationally ban-worthy or broken. And if there was, Meta Knight would be far from it. Regions and locally? Ban him. Heck, you could ban Dr. Mario in Brawl for all I care. :troll: :laugh: :grin:

yeah sure sagat in SF4 had matchups like MK... but he never won anything.
Street Fighter and any Capcom vs. game are guaranteed to have characters that dominate the top. Yet they don't get banned.

even then keep in mind MKs matchups are decided with specific rules in place limiting him. with no LGL ( a fair ruleset ) he'd hard counter the entire roster as all the characters who normally stand a decent chance against him can't really combat his planking... well not many characters can to begin with...
The problem is many of those rules also apply to other characters. With some of those rules in place, especially a year or two ago to just a few months ago, they made Meta Knight actually better. The even LGL, the anti-stalling/anti-camping rules (Meta Knight can't even camp with long-range attacks since he has none!), the anti-planking rules... all of them prevented other characters from running from Meta Knight. These rules were made to make Meta Knight gay and to make people hate Meta Knight, and it definitely worked.

On top of that, these rules often hurt particular characters and people who main those characters (like Olimar, who relies on using the edges in order to survive), and makes players of said characters hate Meta Knight. These LGL rules shouldn't be universally even. Meta Knight should obviously have a lower LGL limit, and I think perhaps Olimar should have higher. Many Olimar mains have actually inisisted the LGL limit rules hurt their meta game.

Universal Meta Knight banning shows a lack of faith in Brawl as a competitive game by the URC. By making anti-gay, anti-stalling/slow boring fighting game rules, the URC has created some gay, stalling-based Brawl competitive game play.

Which is why Melee is eating up Brawl at national smash bros tournaments. Two years ago, anyone who said that would be dead wrong.
 

Delta-cod

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Yoshi has a grab release on him that allows for a regrab, IIRC.
I wouldn't think that it changes much, though. I don't think he'll come up.
Good luck grabbing MK, lol. It just helps us not get completely butt touched by him.

No they don't.
Polt's the only Yoshi that beats MKs and even he loses to MKs often.
Chuee sleepin on my boy Delta.

#ThankYouBasedCod
Mah boi.

As for your counter pick logic, just ban Meta Knight from counter picking non-neutral stages, or on specific stages like Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise. Really that isn't that hard to enforce, and next to no one has tried it. Try it out, and if it works, great. If not, find another solution (banning planking, lulz), or ban those stages (as much as I hate to say that for Rainbow Cruise).
With this logic, we should have EVERY stage legal and simply ban certain characters from playing on certain stages. Bridge of Eldin? Ban DDD and Yoshi from that stage. 75M? Ban anyone fast enough to circle camp it. Ganon ditto stage let's go.

The problem with this is that you're admitting that a character is BROKEN with xyz option available, and then you're telling them "well, although this option is perfectly legitimate for everyone else to use, you're too good so you can't use it." Seems pretty silly, no?

You do realize anyone could vote on it, right=??? Including folks who don't play smash competitively, or play Melee competitively...
And this could go both ways. Who's to say Anti-ban's side wasn't inflated by these voters?
On top of that, there have been 7 "Final Polls" on the Meta Knight ban, with all but the first (which had like 5,000 votes, mostly by n00bs, scrubs, and people who want the smash ball legal), and the last resulting in more anti-bans than bans. Really, shouldn't these polls continue until we have more pro-ban result polls than anti-ban result polls=??? We should wait until 6 more polls run legitimately with proof that you attended a tournament to rule whether Meta Knight should be banned or not over the course of the time frame (as in the gap between each polls). Of course, that would take about 4 years or so.
Actually, unless I'm mistaken, the majority of the polls have been in pro-ban's favor. There just wasn't a significantly large majority until now.

This also shows that the URC wanted him ban, on top of the years of gay rules, gay stages, and movement to make the URC overrule anything the Brawl Back Room rules upon. I've been aware of this for nearly 2 years, and others have theorized that there has been a conspiracy to ban Meta Knight since around the time of the first Meta Knight ban poll. Since then, various people strongly for the Meta Knight ban have been accepted into the Brawl Back Room (and then the URC), whereas few anti-Meta Knight ban people were allowed into the Brawl Back Room, and none into the URC. Oh, and no one in the URC mains (or I think even uses) Meta Knight.
Conspiracy theories aren't entirely credible. All the URC is is a group of TOs that have gotten together to create a unified ruleset that pleases the majority while still remaining mostly competitive. If a MK main felt strongly enough about the issue, he could have applied. But they didn't. It's not pro-ban's fault the anti bans took no initiative. If they want to have MK legal tournaments, they can host them. Pretty simple.

The BBR use to run everything. The Brawl Back Room consists of the top players and TO's. They make sense. They made rules that advanced Brawl competitively, much like the Melee Back Room did with Melee. Now, the Brawl Back Room is no different from the Brawl Competitive discussion, other than the fact it is private.
The BBR never mandated anything. They just created recommended rule sets, which people followed. Similarly, people aren't forced to follow the URC either.

Plus the URC is run by mostly unknowns, several of whom are inactive in Brawl. That's like putting a retired military commander from World War I in charge of an army today. Crap ain't the same today.
I lol'd cuz you're so wrong.

Are you referring to that All is Brawl post=??? Many of them wanted to test it out. Several said they want Meta Knight-banned tournaments to be more prominent, but not be at every national tournament (and I strongly agree with this sentiment, and have been saying it for years).
But this is still the case! MK is only banned by the URC. Thus, MK banned tournaments will become more prominent. They don't have to be at every national. Anti ban TOs can still host MK legal events and nationals. There's no problem here.

You also do realize pro-Meta Knight banned people are more often n00bs who don't even play smash competitively, right=???
Baseless assumptions and an insult to several high level players.


Who the hell says you can't compare smash to other 2D fighting games=??? The only thing you can't compare are the stage aspect, since nearly every other 2D fighting games have invisible walls and is played a flat stage, and it is the first to get KO'd, not the first to get knocked off the screen.

Other than that, references to other fighting games are totally relevant. For example, Meta Knight has all 50-50 match ups with all or nearly all the top tier characters. There are characters in several fighting games that have all 60/40 odds or better against all the other top tier characters.
Not gonna discuss this because I'm not the expert, but this has been discussed to death before.

Actually, there is a Meta Knight-main movement to still play with Meta Knight-banned and win with other characters to prove that Meta Knight isn't broken; they are. So far, several Meta Knight mains have won Meta Knight-banned tournaments with other characters just as successfully.
Cool! This is an amazing movement and I support it entirely.

None of your points give specific examples of people saying that. Mine you can see every other post by some ran-dumb smasher who probably doesn't know the difference between the L-button and the R-button, and plays the game with the Wiimote and Nunchucks with the shake smash function on.
More baseless flaming and slander towards pro banners.
 

Steam

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Well didn't I say all of the polls but the first and last one resulted in the majority saying Meta Knight should be banned=??? The other 5 or so showed that the community was anti-ban.
incorrect. all of the polls except maybe the first (IDK off the top of my head) resulted in a majority wanting to ban MK.
 

Ripple

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Well if we should ban Meta Knight for not having any disadvantages in Brawl, we should also ban Pikachu in Smash 64, Fox in Melee, and Marth in Melee. By that logic, most fighting games would have banned characters.
Marth loses hands down to sheik. and fox loses to marth on YI and possibly FD.

and pikachu isn't even in his own tier in 64 like MK because of combos. try again

On top of that, several fighting games have characters with 60/40 matchups or better against the other top tier characters, yet they remain unbanned.
name one then. someone who either has 1 even match ups and the rest advantages or all advantages. a game that isn't regularly patched either. I dare you.

As for your counter pick logic, just ban Meta Knight from counter picking non-neutral stages, or on specific stages like Brinstar and Rainbow Cruise. Really that isn't that hard to enforce, and next to no one has tried it. Try it out, and if it works, great. If not, find another solution (banning planking, lulz), or ban those stages (as much as I hate to say that for Rainbow Cruise).
making rules specific to 1 character (other than IDC because it doesn't matter who had that) to limit them is basically saying "this character is too good against others and needs to be limited"


You do realize anyone could vote on it, right=??? Including folks who don't play smash competitively, or play Melee competitively...
the was a restriction on who could vote. no alternate accounts could.

That's like Canadians voting in a American election, or vice versa. It don't involve you, so GTFO noob.
not even

On top of that, there have been 7 "Final Polls" on the Meta Knight ban, with all but the first and the last resulting in more anti-bans than bans.
this isn't true at all.


This also shows that the URC wanted him ban, on top of the years of gay rules, gay stages, and movement to make the URC overrule anything the Brawl Back Room rules upon. I've been aware of this for nearly 2 years, and others have theorized that there has been a conspiracy to ban Meta Knight since around the time of the first Meta Knight ban poll. Since then, various people strongly for the Meta Knight ban have been accepted into the Brawl Back Room (and then the URC), whereas few anti-Meta Knight ban people were allowed into the Brawl Back Room, and none into the URC. Oh, and no one in the URC mains (or I think even uses) Meta Knight.
this is hilarious.
gay rules? like what
gay stages (plural) name 2 because RC is legit

THe BBR CREATED the URC, are you ********? we gave them the authority to make rules for tournaments. we don't rule on anything rule related so they can't "overrule" us in any way.

lol at conspiracy, implying it was hidden. lots of people were proban and open about it. namely overswarm. he pushed his hardest to ban MK.

also, name someone who was "strongly" pro ban that got admitted to the URC. last time I checked, any one who applies that runs consistent monthly tournaments gets accepted. keitaro was in the URC and anti ban. but he quit long ago because he said they were dumb or something like that.

and so what if none of TOs main MK. that doesn't mean they would be anti ban. look at OS. TO/mains MK/ proban



The BBR use to run everything. The Brawl Back Room consists of the top players and TO's. They make sense. They made rules that advanced Brawl competitively, much like the Melee Back Room did with Melee. Now, the Brawl Back Room is no different from the Brawl Competitive discussion, other than the fact it is private.
we don't run tournaments, why should we make the rules. we have influence but we don't make any decisions.

Plus the URC is run by mostly unknowns, several of whom are inactive in Brawl. That's like putting a retired military commander from World War I in charge of an army today. Crap ain't the same today.
not even close to true again. stop spouting BS.

AZ-everyone knows him and he ran all MLG. continues to run tournaments in the MW
Yink- MW TO runs the brainshock series in Iowa plays ness and plays in tournament. mostly know in MW
Today- runs the SIIS series. plays G&W and MK and plays often. lots of people know her
bizkit- east coast. 2nd best snake on that coast. everyone knows him
mike haze- best marth in the US. everyone knows him.
chibo- best/2nd best Rob out there. everyone knows him.
delux- everyone knows him since he's a mod and posts everywhere.
player 1- many people know the name, but probably don't know he's in the urc
Tin man- canada's main TO. everyone there knows him. best olimar there
UTD zac. everyone knows hi name.
Xyro- oh god...

and this is off the top of my head.



You also do realize pro-Meta Knight banned people are more often n00bs who don't even play smash competitively, right=???
you have nothing to support this. I could say quite the opposite.

Actually, there is a Meta Knight-main movement to still play with Meta Knight-banned and win with other characters to prove that Meta Knight isn't broken; they are. So far, several Meta Knight mains have won Meta Knight-banned tournaments with other characters just as successfully.
they are banning 2-3 stages and making the Time limit longer and reducing the LGL. ALL to prove MK isn't broken :troll:

As for M2K, he just quit URC rule set tournaments. URC rule set tournaments accounted for 60% or so of tournaments over the course of August, and I expect that number to drop.
M2K needs to get a life. he literally lives off this game so he doesn't have to go to school.

Melee is already bigger at nationals, Melee's community dominates in areas like New York, and the Melee rule set committee actually has faith in their game competitively. :troll:
melee has the exact same issues with stages as we do. most of them hate RC and brinstar, but most of the time, they are legal. nice try

*goes to play the better Smash Bros. game that the competitive community for said actually has faith in the game competitively*
lol see above.

On top of that, Meta Knight still ain't as broken as Pikachu in Smash 64.
is pika in his own tier? does pika have 5 jumps? can MK be comboed? can pika?
 

Thino

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okay

but a large majority still see him as banworthy so it's just as legitimate IMO.
exactly, so I just wish pro-bans would mention this reason more than trying to prove he was banned because he's broken.

he's banned because a large majority see him as banworthy, this is why he's banned.

do you get my point?
 

Delta-cod

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Lol. Speaking from years of experience, it can be EXTREMELY difficult to simply hit MK as Yoshi is the MK knows what he's doing. I've timed MKs out before, and I've beaten plenty of them too. But a mid level MK that knew the MU absolutely rocked me, lol.
 

Steam

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wait johnknight... did you just say the universal LGL makes MK better???? just... get out.

@thino- well he IS broken. his planking has been shown to be pretty game breaking and we came up with specific rules to nerf that aspect of him.

@delta- that's how it is for most of the roster... Lucario kinda has to hope the MK doesn't play the matchup right/makes a lot of mistakes or he's kinda screwed.
 

Johnknight1

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With this logic, we should have EVERY stage legal and simply ban certain characters from playing on certain stages. Bridge of Eldin? Ban DDD and Yoshi from that stage. 75M? Ban anyone fast enough to circle camp it. Ganon ditto stage let's go.

The problem with this is that you're admitting that a character is BROKEN with xyz option available, and then you're telling them "well, although this option is perfectly legitimate for everyone else to use, you're too good so you can't use it." Seems pretty silly, no?
Where the hell did you get that from=??? Seriously, that was stupid troll garbage. I'm not even going to comment on how dumb your 75M and Bridge of Eldin comments are. Those stages are broken, and are broken with multiple characters, none of whom are the clear best.

Meta Knight is the only broken character on Rainbow Cruise because he is a planking little annoyance there. He is definitely overpowered there. It isn't that silly, because I'm not suggesting it at national tournaments. I'm suggesting, why not try it out at smaller tournaments with Meta Knight legal=??? Tell me, what hurts from trying it at a tournament. What the hell is wrong with trying that out=??? It's no different IMO than banning Meta Knight in non-national tournaments just to see the results.

Geesh why ya'll in such a crappy, elitist moods=???

And this could go both ways. Who's to say Anti-ban's side wasn't inflated by these voters?
I've never seen any n00b vote against the Meta Knight bans, maybe a few "t13r5 d0n ex15t" folks aside.

Actually, unless I'm mistaken, the majority of the polls have been in pro-ban's favor. There just wasn't a significantly large majority until now.
I guess my sarcasm didn't translate...

I'm saying the polls don't matter unless attending some sort of tournament is a minimum requirement.

Conspiracy theories aren't entirely credible. All the URC is is a group of TOs that have gotten together to create a unified ruleset that pleases the majority while still remaining mostly competitive. If a MK main felt strongly enough about the issue, he could have applied. But they didn't. It's not pro-ban's fault the anti bans took no initiative. If they want to have MK legal tournaments, they can host them. Pretty simple.
Way to shoot down my opinion before even hearing it.

The URC doesn't want to make Brawl gay-they want it to be in MLG by eliminating the aspect they all hate in it-Meta Knight. That is the "conspiracy theory." I'm not saying they blew up the USS Arizona, bombed the Twin Towers, or staged a moon landing! I'm saying them made Meta Knight gayer in Brawl to get him banned so they can convince MLG to pick up Brawl!

On top of that, I got this idea FROM A TO!!! It adds up.

t0mmy's blog from July 2010 on the secret plan to get Meta Knight banned

On top of that, they refuse to sticky tournaments that don't follow their rules. This never happens on All is Brawl, which is run by more TOs who have been around longer, and stay around longer.

The URC has shot down many Meta Knight players for years.

The BBR never mandated anything. They just created recommended rule sets, which people followed. Similarly, people aren't forced to follow the URC either.
Yes, but without stickies for non-URC rule set tournaments, the TOs of said tournaments are getting pretty angry, and for good reason. Those stickies attract tournament goers and new faces.

On top of that, the URC refuses to recognize any non-URC tournament, and they are trying to make their rule set universal by promoting URC tournaments over non-URC tournaments.

I lol'd cuz you're so wrong.
A few of them haven't even run a tournament or entered a tournament in years.

But this is still the case! MK is only banned by the URC. Thus, MK banned tournaments will become more prominent. They don't have to be at every national. Anti ban TOs can still host MK legal events and nationals. There's no problem here.
The URC is trying to make the Meta Knight ban UNIVERSAL because they want their rules to be UNIVERSAL!

Baseless assumptions and an insult to several high level players.
I'm saying that there are more non-competitive Brawl players voting for the Meta Knight ban than against it in all likelihood. I am not attacking high level players, and I have no idea where you got that from.

More baseless flaming and slander towards pro banners.
I meant to write every other page, not every other post.

I wasn't attacking the people who have added to the conversation like those who I previously quoted. I was rather making light of the n00bs who post every other page with ran-dumb crap that makes no sense.
 

Johnknight1

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incorrect. all of the polls except maybe the first (IDK off the top of my head) resulted in a majority wanting to ban MK.
Huh, well I guess I'm wrong.

wait johnknight... did you just say the universal LGL makes MK better????
*face palm* My posts are coming out weird (that's my bad). I'm editing them terribly and wording it terribly! :laugh: I meant to say universal Meta Knight banning shows a lack of faith in Brawl competitively. Before that, what I was saying is that the LGL where Meta Knight had an equal LGL limit with every other character not too long ago made Meta Knight better.

I was also trying to add that Olimar needs a different LGL system/limit from other characters. At least, that's what I've been reading from several Olimar mains. Some Olimar mains have insisted the LGL limit hurts the Olimar meta game, actually. That's what I was trying to get across.

That's my mistake, not yours. Apologies on the confusion.
 

LKratos

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Johnknight does this every 10 pages or so, makes an elaborate post full of straw-mans and other fallacies, and ignores or further straw-mans everybody's legitimate rebuttal.
 

Thino

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@thino- well he IS broken. his planking has been shown to be pretty game breaking and we came up with specific rules to nerf that aspect of him.
well that is interesting, because way back in this thread, when planking was on the subject, I remember people saying that dealing MK planking was difficult but not impossible, and I even remember people showing vids about how to beat MK's planking

so my first question is, in your opinion, is MK's planking downright impossible to beat or just extremely difficult and annoying to deal with?

but more importantly, what exactly makes a tactic that abuses of the time to win, since they're both ways to win the game along with stocks?

Whenever someone mentions the time in rules, pro-bans always mentions that the time rule is there because of the time constraints at tournaments and that it would make matches take forever.

guess what? It doesn't change the fact that the time IS part of the rules and doesn't make wins by time less legit, or tactics that use the time game breaking.

prolly extremely more boring and extremely annoying to deal with, but not game breaking.
 

Steam

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MK planking is not unbeatable for most characters. but the risk reward for dealing with it for a majority of the roster is just beyond horrible.

and winning by time out is definitely legit.
 

Ripple

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I like the part where johnknight responded to me

oh wait....
 
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