Meta Knight Officially Banned!

[Ghostbone]

play on one stage only.

Final Destination.

and I am dead serious about it.

And people like you are why the rest of the fighting game community laugh at smash.

 

[Thino]

And people like you are why the rest of the fighting game community laugh at smash.

and excuse me, once again, why do we care about the rest of the fighting game community already?

Smash is Smash.

If this community really did care about how they compare themselves to the rest of the fighting game community, I don't think MK would be banned by URC right now

I don't even think we would have a BBR and URC in first place anyway.

Why do we care if they laugh at us or respect us?

 

[Ghostbone]

and excuse me, once again, why do we care about the rest of the fighting game community already?

Smash is Smash.

If this community really did care about how they compare themselves to the rest of the fighting game community, I don't think MK would be banned by URC right now

I don't even think we would have a BBR and URC in first place anyway.

Why do we care if they laugh at us or respect us?

Because they laugh for good reason.

Banning every stage but FD is ridiculously scrubby.

Why wouldn't the URC ban MK? You realise most of the FG community has seen the effect MK has on Smash and thinks he should have been banned years ago?
Even if MK isn't strictly broken, the effect he has on the community is massively detrimental.

 

[Thino]

Because they laugh for good reason.

Banning every stage but FD is ridiculously scrubby.

Why wouldn't the URC ban MK? You realise most of the FG community has seen the effect MK has on Smash and thinks he should have been banned years ago?

if they laugh, let them laugh,It's not as if laughs would affect us, I don't know why people seem to consider that the Smash community is forced to have any kind of relationship with the other FGs, or have to be respected by them necessarily.

Why this need?

How exactly is banning every stage but FD scrubby? You guys complain that MK is breaking the CP system and that he has at least one counter stage on every characters among neutrals. If he has that kind of advantage, what's the point of changing stages anymore since a MK player that knows his MU will know how to deal with any situation by striking/picking the adequate stage.

I'm gonna have to ask you some sources on the bolded part because I'm skeptical, I hang out on SRK and Dustloop mainly and Smash not only pop up as subject very rarely , but whenever it does, It's constantly bashing the game with some few post wonders magically popping with usernames that are familiar from Smashboards defending the franchise with super long posts.

I believe if this community was following what other FGs communities do, the URC wouldn't even exist, neither would backrooms.

TO's would do w/e they want, with the rules they want, without fear of not being treated the same way if they use different rules.

 

[DeLux]

As an Ice Climber main, I thoroughly endorse this idea of playing every game on FD and will be bringing that to the URC's attention as a viable solution to the MK problem

 

[Steam]

yes, MK breaks the CP system so ban MK.

if the CP system broke MK maybe banning the CP system would be somewhat justifyable.

but even then banning one character effects much less than throwing out all but one of the stages.

 

[Thino]

Even if MK isn't strictly broken, the effect he has on the community is massively detrimental.

of course it is.

but people don't wanna deal with him, people are tired to see him win,etc.. he's banned, we're over that.

but you seem to be bothered by the fact other FGs communities make fun of ridiculous ruleset while they apparently approve of that ban?

I wanna know more about this, how much do these "rest of FGs community" know about smash in first place anyway?

tell me more.

yes, MK breaks the CP system so ban MK.

if the CP system broke MK maybe banning the CP system would be somewhat justifyable.

but even then banning one character effects much less than throwing out all but one of the stages.

then I have a different sense of priority than the rest of the community if you're not the only one that thinks that way.

I'd rather change something community-made to adapt, than ban something that is part of the game.

and this regardless of the effect either have on the gameplay.

 

[Thino]

double post

 

[Eon the Wolf]

gotta let that Classic Controller/Wiimote metagame evolve man

Hur hur icwutudidthar

 

[ElDominio]

o


then I have a different sense of priority than the rest of the community if you're not the only one that thinks that way.

I'd rather change something community-made to adapt, than ban something that is part of the game.

and this regardless of the effect either have on the gameplay.

Stages aren't part of the game?????
What????

 

[Grim Tuesday]

What if he breaks metagaming with counterpicks? counterpicks is something that was created by the community, if a character happens to break it, then change it or remove it.

What's with "metagaming" itself anyway? why force the metagame to evolve, or try to change it when it's frozen by a character? Is it thirst for variety or cure for boredom that makes people want to evolve the metagame?

FUN and COMPETITIVE DIVERSITY is what matters to you pro-ban guys and THESE are the reasons why you guys banned MK, I wish you guys would be more honest about it instead of telling stuff like stats, metagame or rules like those things could matter in determining a character is broken.

you guys are bored of seeing MK winning all the money and all the Nationals, that's the only reason why statistics would matter to you

I like how what you claim to be the best argument break the ruleset made by the community and not the actual game, how can you argue about game design when a character breaks something made up by the community?

too many unintuitive rules have been implemented to "fix" parts of the ruleset made by the BBR he breaks, aka the WAY you want to play the game and not the game itself.

Brawl metagame being more interesting is another reason, but please tell us he's banned only because of those, because that is the way you pro-bans want the game to be.

It's more fun.
It's more diverse.
Most of TO's agree with it.
76% of the community agree.

But it's not as competitive as it was before

Maybe you speak for the majority with this post, but I only want Meta Knight banned because I feel he is broken (as I do not support a LGL). If MK couldn't plank, I would be anti-ban based on my principles.

How do you decide that a specific combination of things makes a character ban-worthy that's what I wanna understand.

is it winning tournaments+no bad matchups?

is it additional rules+unpopularity?

is it breaking CP+money won by MKs?

a combination of all above?

what's the math behind all this and how do you guys decide that by the sum of all these, a character is ban-worthy?

That is mysterious to me, I swear.

I would only ban something when it gets to the point where either

a) The metagame becomes too simple and easily "solved" to be competitive (i.e. Hyrule Temple being legal, circle camping is so simple that at top level play everyone would basically be as good as each other, similar to Tic-Tac-Toe, making competition pointless).

or

b) The metagame remains "unsolved" but loses so much competitive depth that no one would even play it anymore, competition requires 2 or more players, so this would make competition impossible.

I use this criteria whenever I make a decision with hypothetical rulesets, and I believe that a planking MK could break the first of those criteria and definitely break the latter.

and pikachu isn't even in his own tier in 64 like MK because of combos. try again

No, Pikachu isn't in his own tier because the people who created the tier list put Fox in the same tier as Pika because they wanted the characters evenly spread across the tiers looooool.

No one is in the same league as Pikachu.

Johnknight does this every 10 pages or so, makes an elaborate post full of straw-mans and other fallacies, and ignores or further straw-mans everybody's legitimate rebuttal.

Jebus made an alt account?

 

[holyv]

we laugh at ssbb because is a pathetic-non-skill game.
now that mk is banned, we can improve more on this.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Go beat a good Brawler and then come back and say it is a non-skill game.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

and excuse me, once again, why do we care about the rest of the fighting game community already?

Smash is Smash.

If this community really did care about how they compare themselves to the rest of the fighting game community, I don't think MK would be banned by URC right now

I don't even think we would have a BBR and URC in first place anyway.

Why do we care if they laugh at us or respect us?

Cause most of their games go to evo(and other majors too), have patches, are better balance, and have hugeass fanbases?

 

[HeroMystic]

How exactly is banning every stage but FD scrubby?

It's not scrubby since it affects all characters vs just Metaknight, but I find this suggestion questionable.

And why Final Destination? Why not Battlefield, Smashville, Yoshi's Island, or hell, Norfair?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It is scrubby because it decreases the amount of skills a player has to learn to be good at the game for personal preference.

Similar to how scrubs will ban chain-grabbing from their circle of friends because they don't want to put the effort in to learn how to get around it.

 

[HeroMystic]

For the ruleset, or standard if you will, yes that could be regarded as scrubby, but it's already arbitrary ruling, so it's personal preference in the first place. I mean, look at how many stages were banned because they were "too gay".

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'm not going to deny that.

 

[Ghostbone]

if they laugh, let them laugh,It's not as if laughs would affect us, I don't know why people seem to consider that the Smash community is forced to have any kind of relationship with the other FGs, or have to be respected by them necessarily.

Why this need?

How exactly is banning every stage but FD scrubby? You guys complain that MK is breaking the CP system and that he has at least one counter stage on every characters among neutrals. If he has that kind of advantage, what's the point of changing stages anymore since a MK player that knows his MU will know how to deal with any situation by striking/picking the adequate stage.

I'm gonna have to ask you some sources on the bolded part because I'm skeptical, I hang out on SRK and Dustloop mainly and Smash not only pop up as subject very rarely , but whenever it does, It's constantly bashing the game with some few post wonders magically popping with usernames that are familiar from Smashboards defending the franchise with super long posts.

I believe if this community was following what other FGs communities do, the URC wouldn't even exist, neither would backrooms.

TO's would do w/e they want, with the rules they want, without fear of not being treated the same way if they use different rules.

Smash pops up every month or so on SRK, someone goes "omg guys take smash seriously you all just hate it because it's a party game"
Most of the SRK people just go along with it and go "but it is"
Then the serious posters go "Look, we don't dislike smash, we dislike the community because they have ridiculous arbitrary rules (like the LGL) and ban lots of stuff that's fine (many stages)"

If you look at the MK ban thing over there, most of the players were saying either "what's smash news doing here" or "Finally he's banned"

And how is banning every stage but FD scrubby? You serious? How is limiting yourself to 1 out of 42 stages scrubby? Especially when many have no problems whatsoever?

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

Smash pops up every month or so on SRK, someone goes "omg guys take smash seriously you all just hate it because it's a party game"
Most of the SRK people just go along with it and go "but it is"
Then the serious posters go "Look, we don't dislike smash, we dislike the community because they have ridiculous arbitrary rules (like the LGL) and ban lots of stuff that's fine (many stages)"

If you look at the MK ban thing over there, most of the players were saying either "what's smash news doing here" or "Finally he's banned"

And how is banning every stage but FD scrubby? You serious? How is limiting yourself to 1 out of 42 stages scrubby? Especially when many have no problems whatsoever?

ban stages? so you telling me rumble falls and 75m is legit? wow..those srk guys are idiots.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

YI pipes shoulda been legal, then we wouldnt have had a MK problem in the first place x.x

 

[Grim Tuesday]

ban stages? so you telling me rumble falls and 75m is legit? wow..those srk guys are idiots.

There are other banned stages lol.

Take PS2 for example, very commonly banned with absolutely no good reason.

YI pipes shoulda been legal, then we wouldnt have had a MK problem in the first place x.x

Not quite... Lol.

 

[Ripple]

can't wait for sakurai to make every single stage unplayable for our normal competition except FD

 

[Ghostbone]

ban stages? so you telling me rumble falls and 75m is legit? wow..those srk guys are idiots.

lol strawman.

 

[NinjaFoxX]

There are other banned stages lol.

Take PS2 for example, very commonly banned with absolutely no good reason.



Not quite... Lol.

just like PS2....

but really, the small blast range and the walkoff for chainbrabs makes this stage really good CP.MK is still a fairly light character and quite a few chars have a chaingrab that can be abused here.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

It is his worst stage.

He is still the best character in the game with it legal.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

There are other banned stages lol.

Take PS2 for example, very commonly banned with absolutely no good reason.



Not quite... Lol.

Ban PS2? wow...I wanna smack the idiot that bans that stage. There is nothing wrong with it! Next you're going to tell me Green Greens is bad.

Ban stages

-* Corneria
*throws a chair at the TOs*

 

[Thino]

Stages aren't part of the game?????
What????

you don't get my point.
Stages are part of the game.
Counterpick system isn't.

Maybe you speak for the majority with this post, but I only want Meta Knight banned because I feel he is broken (as I do not support a LGL). If MK couldn't plank, I would be anti-ban based on my principles.

Except that, unlike Steam, you will explain me why you consider MK planking as broken.

Or is it really nothing but a feeling?

I would only ban something when it gets to the point where either

a) The metagame becomes too simple and easily "solved" to be competitive (i.e. Hyrule Temple being legal, circle camping is so simple that at top level play everyone would basically be as good as each other, similar to Tic-Tac-Toe, making competition pointless).

or

b) The metagame remains "unsolved" but loses so much competitive depth that no one would even play it anymore, competition requires 2 or more players, so this would make competition impossible.

I use this criteria whenever I make a decision with hypothetical rulesets, and I believe that a planking MK could break the first of those criteria and definitely break the latter.

I still don't understand this focus on the metagame though, if the metagame of a game turns to Tic-Tac-Toe, let it turn to Tic-Tac-Toe, some people enjoy it, some people don't

I'm really not sure that Metaknight being legal ever caused that nobody plays Brawl anymore.

But all those are your opinions

Cause most of their games go to evo(and other majors too), have patches, are better balance, and have hugeass fanbases?

Then that's just plain jealousy toward them. Our game doesn't get the same treatment as theirs, the same coverage, basically is just not the same as theirs.

I don't see how this can be a reason to look up to them.

Smash pops up every month or so on SRK, someone goes "omg guys take smash seriously you all just hate it because it's a party game"
Most of the SRK people just go along with it and go "but it is"
Then the serious posters go "Look, we don't dislike smash, we dislike the community because they have ridiculous arbitrary rules (like the LGL) and ban lots of stuff that's fine (many stages)"

If you look at the MK ban thing over there, most of the players were saying either "what's smash news doing here" or "Finally he's banned"

And how is banning every stage but FD scrubby? You serious? How is limiting yourself to 1 out of 42 stages scrubby? Especially when many have no problems whatsoever?

This is an accurate description or SRK's reaction on Smash topic

But my question is, in your opinion, on the MK ban thing, how many of those guys that commented "finally he's banned" know and play Brawl competitively?

Just because "people on SRK" say something doesn't mean it's absolute truth, that is an inferiority complex you guys have.

other FGs community are not superior to us, their opinions about us or in general are not golden.

also, is that really your definition of scrubbiness? because if it is, banning Metaknight is "scrubby" since none of you guys have really explained me yet why is planking and breaking the CP system a problem.

It's not scrubby since it affects all characters vs just Metaknight, but I find this suggestion questionable.

And why Final Destination? Why not Battlefield, Smashville, Yoshi's Island, or hell, Norfair?

I can give arbitrary reasons such as characters having platform advantage being able to run away higher than they could on FD, or lava.

There are plenty of reasons like these that causes other stages to be banned, I can come up with some, that's not a problem.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

Then that's just plain jealousy toward them. Our game doesn't get the same treatment as theirs, the same coverage, basically is just not the same as theirs.

I don't see how this can be a reason to look up to them.

Let me put in simpler terms.... the companies that make their games actually give a crap about it. Nintendo doesn't about this game. So, they won't release a patch or actually put through into there characters in the next smash game. Capcom does actually. Ryu isn't the same character every game. Namco hires tournament players to help them make Tekken. Do you see Nintendo calling up Mew2king, ADHD, Ken( not sure if he plays), KoreanDJ( same as the first), and Ally to help them make the next Smash game? No you don't. And we're not at the majors that actually matter. No disrespect to pound and apex but EVO, Devastation,SB, all the road to tournaments, and so on are WAYYYYYY more important and actually matter in the fighting community. Mortal Kombat is gaining relevance because of that and is going very popular in countries that aren't even known for fighting game. Brawl ain't gaining nothing. You see it's not our fault the FG community laughs at us. They laugh at us because we trying to so hard to make a game for little kids serious even though the freaking creators crush our dreams and made sure that stuff wasn't going down. We're trying to make something serious that the company made the game is spiting in our face and stomping us to the ground. Do you see Namco, ASW, Capcom, Sega, and SNK do that to their fighting game players?( Well you can argue Capcom, but you can't do that for the rest.).

 

[Silvonla]

Sheik Approves

 

[Silvonla]

Sheik approves

Sheik Approves

 

[-LzR-]

Ryu isn't the same in every game? I didn't even realize I wasn't playing TvC when I saw Ryu on MvC3.
Also CapCom charges money from all the "patches" and call the super or ultimate or something. Nintendo doesn't release patches because it's not possible on the wii. Also if they release a Brawl "Ultimate" everyone would go nuts.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

Ryu isn't the same in every game? I didn't even realize I wasn't playing TvC when I saw Ryu on MvC3.
Also CapCom charges money from all the "patches" and call the super or ultimate or something. Nintendo doesn't release patches because it's not possible on the wii. Also if they release a Brawl "Ultimate" everyone would go nuts.

Well, for starters did Ryu have a super hadoken that bounces? Just sayin' man. Anyways, that's why I said you could argue Capcom but not the rest. And can you explain why they will go nuts if Nintendo release Ultimate Brawl:D. That name sounds kind of corny.

Edit: Capcom didn't charge for SF4 AE 2012 and that gay patch for sent in MvC3.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Except that, unlike Steam, you will explain me why you consider MK planking as broken.

Or is it really nothing but a feeling?

Because I have planked good players in the past. The reason my state even had a LGL before we banned MK was because of me.

I still don't understand this focus on the metagame though, if the metagame of a game turns to Tic-Tac-Toe, let it turn to Tic-Tac-Toe, some people enjoy it, some people don't

I'm really not sure that Metaknight being legal ever caused that nobody plays Brawl anymore.

But all those are your opinions

Yeah, its just my opinion like you said.

I feel that any criteria is fine as long as it isn't hypocritical.

 

[HeroMystic]

I can give arbitrary reasons such as characters having platform advantage being able to run away higher than they could on FD, or lava.

There are plenty of reasons like these that causes other stages to be banned, I can come up with some, that's not a problem.

Except the same arguments can be done with Final Destination. There has been a case where people believed Final Destination is unbalanced (and it is). It gives an advantage boost to DDD, Ice Climbers, Diddy, and probably a few I'm forgetting. But ironically it grounds Metaknight a bit.

 

[ElDominio]

Except the same arguments can be done with Final Destination. There has been a case where people believed Final Destination is unbalanced (and it is). It gives an advantage boost to DDD, Ice Climbers, Diddy, and probably a few I'm forgetting. But ironically it grounds Metaknight a bit.

I wish it did grind him

 

[Thino]

Let me put in simpler terms.... the companies that make their games actually give a crap about it. Nintendo doesn't about this game. So, they won't release a patch or actually put through into there characters in the next smash game. Capcom does actually. Ryu isn't the same character every game. Namco hires tournament players to help them make Tekken. Do you see Nintendo calling up Mew2king, ADHD, Ken( not sure if he plays), KoreanDJ( same as the first), and Ally to help them make the next Smash game? No you don't. And we're not at the majors that actually matter. No disrespect to pound and apex but EVO, Devastation,SB, all the road to tournaments, and so on are WAYYYYYY more important and actually matter in the fighting community. Mortal Kombat is gaining relevance because of that and is going very popular in countries that aren't even known for fighting game. Brawl ain't gaining nothing. You see it's not our fault the FG community laughs at us. They laugh at us because we trying to so hard to make a game for little kids serious even though the freaking creators crush our dreams and made sure that stuff wasn't going down. We're trying to make something serious that the company made the game is spiting in our face and stomping us to the ground. Do you see Namco, ASW, Capcom, Sega, and SNK do that to their fighting game players?( Well you can argue Capcom, but you can't do that for the rest.).

I get your main point and I'm aware of all this.

I just believe that indeed because it's not our fault but Nintendo's, we should just keep on dealing with what Nintendo gives us regardless of how much we're made fun of by other FGs.

We have no obligation to look good to them, play the game in vanilla settings like them, or have tournaments as big as theirs.

It's something that we can only wish, but not really make it a goal until Nintendo starts caring.

It is scrubby because it decreases the amount of skills a player has to learn to be good at the game for personal preference.

Similar to how scrubs will ban chain-grabbing from their circle of friends because they don't want to put the effort in to learn how to get around it.

This post is golden, I don't know how I missed it on the previous page.

Now tell me, doesn't banning MK decrease the skill required to be good at the game? how will people learn how to deal with planking now since except other characters planking?

is banning MK scrubby or not? if not what is the difference?

Because I have planked good players in the past. The reason my state even had a LGL before we banned MK was because of me.

Have you ever considered that those good players and your state don't know or don't want to deal with planking because of you, and have a LGL rule because of that?

Yeah, its just my opinion like you said.

I feel that any criteria is fine as long as it isn't hypocritical.

fine.
but because of it I don't want any of these criteria getting more importance than others, but the staff said they're working on it.

Except the same arguments can be done with Final Destination. There has been a case where people believed Final Destination is unbalanced (and it is). It gives an advantage boost to DDD, Ice Climbers, Diddy, and probably a few I'm forgetting. But ironically it grounds Metaknight a bit.

of course, but how else than arbitrarily can you choose which stage is the most neutral?

stage bans are done almost the same way.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I just want to point out that Smash was at EVO and the ******* at the time decided to boycott it because of the rules instead of working with the FGC to make it better in the future.

 

[HeroMystic]

of course, but how else than arbitrarily can you choose which stage is the most neutral?

stage bans are done almost the same way.

With Criteria.

I don't really care for people banning stages because they're "gay". In fact there should probably be a lot more stages in place. There's no real criteria that emphasizes stage bans.

In any case I'm straying from my original point. This was about MK breaking the CP system, but I don't believe the one who brought it up was talking about stages. They were talking about Counter picking with characters against MK.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

I just want to point out that Smash was at EVO and the ******* at the time decided to boycott it because of the rules instead of working with the FGC to make it better in the future.

I meant more than two times dude.