Q&A Mechanics & Techniques Discussion

[Raijinken]

This goes back to why SDI was a bad name for THAT mechanic.

They're different, they just go hand in hand with affecting your survival.

 

[WastingPenguins]

SDI (apparently named hitstun shuffling in this game) is not remotely the same thing as vectoring. OP, read up on the topic a little before making a thread.

 

[infiniteV115]

I don't know if this was known yet, but I was actually reading some of the tips the game gives you, and some are pretty neat.
Is it already known that if you slightly move the circle pad during a shield, you will be able to move the shield? I do not remember this being in brawl, and I think this has the potential for some serious survival play and such.
It is pretty hard to do on the 3ds, but I think the wii u version will have some more potential with it.

Everybody knows about this lol, it was in Melee Brawl and PM. I would say it was in 64 as well but I'm not sure about that.

 

[san.]

Anyone know how clanking works in this game? Sometimes I see moves clank and one attack overpowers the other or certain moves with their own clanking animation. It's a little bit confusing.

 

[-RedX-]

The way I think clanking works is that during a clank, the guy who did the weaker attack suffers more downtime than the stronger attacker damage/knockback wise. Just a thought.

 

[Yikarur]

why didn't I sub this yet?
This is like my homethread.

 

[The MC Clusky]

Having trouble with this, so can anyone tell me if Up B or Upsmash out of shield is still possible?

 

[Yikarur]

You can still cancel your jump with Upsmash and UpB. Yes it is possible.

 

[Frozn~]

Does anyone know if wall-jump > reverse B > walljump is still in? I think it would be a great addition to Greninja's recovery options if so.
youtube.com/watch?v=tgBxvTMG28I

 

[Thinkaman]

Having trouble with this, so can anyone tell me if Up B or Upsmash out of shield is still possible?

Jump first.

For up-b OoS, you can input jump and special the same frame while shielding.

For up-smash OoS, you must let go of shield at least one frame sooner OR press jump at least one frame sooner.

In either case, pressing the other input any frames before jump will result in a jump.

 

[Acton]

I was wondering if it would be possible to start a thread in the competitive discussion compiling all the advance techs in this game that arent character specific. Things like glide tossing, roll cancel grabbing etc come to mind.

Ive been lurking a lot and its become apparent to me that there where so many mechanics in brawl that carried over to this game that I was never aware of.

Visiting a character specific board will usually yield info on character specific ATs but not game wide ones.

Im kind of a scrub so I didnt want to just go and make a thread, but Id be willing to submit what ive come across! Keep in mind that most of these techniques many of you might already be aware of, but being that a new game has recently been released there are bound to be many people like myself looking to step their game up!

 

[Signia]

To add to that, can we agree what to call various states? As in initial dash, run, skid, turnaround, shield release, weak hitstun, strong hitstun, initial dash recovery (foxtrot?) and then identify how to trigger each state and what's possible to transition to out of each state? It's not really clear. I've never seen such a pointlessly convoluted state machine. There's what, three animations to stop dashing?

 

[mimgrim]

For up-smash OoS, you must let go of shield at least one frame sooner OR press jump at least one frame sooner.

Are you absolutely sure about this?Because I'm able to do it consistently and I am pretty sure I am pressing Jump and Usmash at the same time.

 

[Thinkaman]

Are you absolutely sure about this?Because I'm able to do it consistently and I am pretty sure I am pressing Jump and Usmash at the same time.

If you are still shielding, that means you are pressing attack while shielding, which is always a grab command.

You must have stopped shielding by either letting go of the button, or started the jumping state.

This is true regardless of tap jump.

 

[mimgrim]

If you are still shielding, that means you are pressing attack while shielding, which is always a grab command.

You must have stopped shielding by either letting go of the button, or started the jumping state.

This is true regardless of tap jump.

What I meant was that I'm pretty sure I'm pressing Jump and Usmash at the same time while in Shield and am still preforming a Usmash OoS correctly.

 

[Thinkaman]

What I meant was that I'm pretty sure I'm pressing Jump and Usmash at the same time while in Shield and am still preforming a Usmash OoS correctly.

Well, I promise you you're not. If you want to confirm, go into training mode and try putting the inputs in exactly on the same frame--as long as you are holding shield while inputting attack, it'll grab.

 

[mimgrim]

Well, I promise you you're not. If you want to confirm, go into training mode and try putting the inputs in exactly on the same frame--as long as you are holding shield while inputting attack, it'll grab.

That's what I've been doing and I swear I am pressing the buttons at the same time and I am not letting go of shield.

 

[Thinkaman]

You're in training, let the game pause, hold all 4 inputs, unpause, and get an up-smash?

 

[mimgrim]

If I do that I just end up shielding and tilting the shield up and nothing else.

 

[Gardex]

So I think I found something interesting, although fairly useless.

Basically, if you run off the ledge and do a fair in the exact frame(or so, can't really check it) you leave the ground, you'll actually do a nair instead of a fair. Tested with various characters, and it always happened.

Fairly useless, it only gives you a teeny tiny distance gain because you don't have to let go of the circle pad to do a nair.

 

[Yikarur]

^I can confirm this. But I wouldn't call it useless. I like it.

One thing I just noticed: if you leave the edge while dashing a short while you enter a rolling animation when you're leaving the edge. If you jump on stage again you will dash immediately when touching the ground.

 

[-RedX-]

Sounds more like a hinderance.
I want to walk off Fair-oh no I inputted Fair too fast and got Nair. ;o;

 

[Funkermonster]

With So many people spaming rolls a lot (including me!), does anyone know if rolls have ore invicibility in this game or something? I don't know too many people who've punished them consistently.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

It doesn't seem like they have more invincibility. They are a lot faster, however, making them a little harder to punish. Just a matter of adjustment.

Smooth Criminal

 

[The Original Zeph]

Is anyone aware of Boost grabbing in this game I've tested it out in training and the extra grab range isn't that significant but its in the game. Also the timing is extremely strict i have to play on 1/2-1/4 speed to even do it consistently. To preform for anyone that doesn't know just dash then start a dash attack and immediately as the dash attack starts press grab.

 

[Opana]

Ledge Canceling is possible with Zelda's Teleport still, and now Palutena's Watp.

 

[officialsticktendo]

While I was playing around a bit today I found out you can cancel a dash with a pivot F-Smash. Basically when you dash, you can pivot then press attack then shield to stop and perform an F-Smash behind you. The timing is relatively strict, but with practice it can be pulled off fairly consistently.

 

[Funkermonster]

Am I the only one who finds it difficult to edgeguard people who recover low now? With edgehogging gone and all, alot of attacks I know don't seem to be able to hit people grabbing the ledge (or at least from the characters I play, besides DHD's Fsmash).

 

[mimgrim]

Is it just me or is possible to now do Nspecial, Dspecial, and Sspecial OoS like you can Uspecial?

EDIT - So I don't think this is a OoS option in the normal sense. Instead I think all Special are Jump Cancelable. You can JC any special out of the dash animation or skid animation. This work for Shields to. You can tell by how there is an extremely small hop. I think this is going to prove to have some really good uses.

 

[Signia]

Is it just me or is possible to now do Nspecial, Dspecial, and Sspecial OoS like you can Uspecial?

EDIT - So I don't think this is a OoS option in the normal sense. Instead I think all Special are Jump Cancelable. You can JC any special out of the dash animation or skid animation. This work for Shields to. You can tell by how there is an extremely small hop. I think this is going to prove to have some really good uses.

I'm having trouble understanding what you're saying. Can you just say what animations are transitioning into what? Are specials being cancelled into jumps? Or are jumps being cancelled into specials? Is it the jump startup or is the special's animation causing you to land? What "works for shields too?" Do you mean "works from shield?"

This community's use of the word "cancel" is infuriating. It's always ambiguous. The thing is being cancelled or or the thing is doing the cancelling? Sometimes it's neither as in "JC shine."

 

[mimgrim]

Basically you can Jump Cancel any Special move out of the dash animation (you know, before you start to actually run}, skid animation (when you stop running), and Shield. This is what I found out so far anyway. Though Uspecial OoS is it's own thing instead of being JCable.

While in Shield, it is basically the same as doing a Uspecial or Usmash OoS, except when you do one of the other 3 Special you will see a very small hop.

As for out of dash/skid animations, it's like a JC grab from Melee but is not possible in the run animation (this is because you can do any Special out of run).

That make any more sense?

 

[Signia]

@ mimgrim

NO

When you do this thing that you're doing, what thing is stopped early and becoming what thing?

Please stop saying Jump Cancel, I just told you it's ambiguous unless it's already a well-known technique. Is it a JC as in a JC grab, where the jump startup animation is being transitioned early into a grab? Or is like Palutena's Auto-Dash which is Jump-Cancellable, as in the attack can be transitioned early into a jump? Or is it like 64 and Melee Fox's JC shine, where jumping and doing a shine right after leaving the ground "cancels" the jump arc by touching the ground? Or is it like the appalling use of JC that I've just learned about where people do instant air specials, where you just do specials just after leaving the ground to avoid lag, and no animation is actually being cancelled?

 

[mimgrim]

It is an already well known technique. xD

JCing is big in Melee.

Anyways, while in Shield it's the same as doing a Uspecial OoS basically. Be in shield > tilt shield in the desired direction > jump > Preform Special that matches your shield positions.

For JCing dash/skid animations it's Jump > special you want to preform.

You are canceling the jump into another move, which is why it is called Jump Cancel. And it's been around for a good while in Smash games.

 

[Monkey D. Dragon]

Hey I was just wondering how do you apply the custom moves and powers to a character and use it in a match? I did everything I was supposed to do when I went into Games&More>Custom>Characters>Rosalina&Luma>Click Card and I picked everything I wanted. However, I feel like the changes haven't been applied. Am I just being paranoid or is there something else I have to do?

 

[infomon]

When you're at the Character Select Screen, turn customizations on, and then choose the character, and you'll get a list of all the cards and you can pick the card that has your customizations.

 

[Signia]

It is an already well known technique. xD

JCing is big in Melee.

Anyways, while in Shield it's the same as doing a Uspecial OoS basically. Be in shield > tilt shield in the desired direction > jump > Preform Special that matches your shield positions.

For JCing dash/skid animations it's Jump > special you want to preform.

You are canceling the jump into another move, which is why it is called Jump Cancel. And it's been around for a good while in Smash games.

"JCing" is not a well known technique. JC grab, JC upsmash, JC shine, and "states that are 'jump-cancellable'" are well-known. I obviously know what those are and am not talking about those. "JC" is used in different ways. I don't know which way you mean if you just make up your own "JC" technique name.

You don't need to tilt your shield to do up-B or Usmash out of shield... something tells me you have no idea how any this works. The shield has nothing to do with cancelling the jump startup. The jump startup transitions from the shield animation, and as because of input leniency, attacks with "up" in it are allowed to transition from the jump startup animation.

You are canceling the jump into another move

For JCing dash/skid animations

So, then "JCing dash/skid animations" is cancelling the jump into dash/skid animations? You seem to be using "JC" to mean two different things: Cancelling the jump startup as in Uspecial OoS, or cancelling into jump from another state like dashing or skidding.


Anyway, so apparently you jump and then do a B move. Is the jump startup being cancelled or you just doing it after barely leaving the ground? No small hop should be occurring if it's cancelling the jump startup.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Is the timing for DACUS more strict in this game (if it isn't already)? I've only managed to do it in training mode in 1/4 speed (since the 3ds doesn't have a right stick) by dash attacking and then immediately flicking circle pad up to do the usmash.

 

[Judo777]

Is the timing for DACUS more strict in this game (if it isn't already)? I've only managed to do it in training mode in 1/4 speed (since the 3ds doesn't have a right stick) by dash attacking and then immediately flicking circle pad up to do the usmash.

Sheik's DACUS in Brawl had a 2 frame window between attack inputs. She had the tightest one but others probably aren't that much bigger. So you have to hit the A button release the A button then Press it again 2 frames later after inputting the up motion to execute it. Which is humanly impossible with 1 attack button.

 

[Ryu_Ken]

Sheik's DACUS in Brawl had a 2 frame window between attack inputs. She had the tightest one but others probably aren't that much bigger. So you have to hit the A button release the A button then Press it again 2 frames later after inputting the up motion to execute it. Which is humanly impossible with 1 attack button.

So in Sm4sh it's still 2 frames like in Brawl?

 

[Signia]

Which is humanly impossible with 1 attack button.

It's possible to do even one-frame double inputs with the double tap technique. It's more of an arcade button technique thing, though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p6-SN862FU