Q&A Mechanics & Techniques Discussion

[Monkley6]

This is the closest thing I can find to an FAQ/Q&A, so I'm just going to ask here.

How intense is the affect of stale moves in this game? More significant than Brawl, or less, and do we have any numbers to go with them? Pure speculation is fine though.

If there's a better place to ask this, please tell me. There's just so many new threads, and only so much time in a day.

 

[Alphatron]

Is B sticking or b reversal still in this game? With the controls the way they are, I imagine it's hard to test this. Same goes for holding A after pulling out a bomb / turnip and still using your C stick to attack normally without throwing your item.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Is it character specific? I have friends who are good at landing and attacking immediately after and know how to punish me when I land and can't guard or roll in time. If it's character specific, what moves should I use to get myself back to attack position?

 

[MysteriousSilver]

It's move specific. Some end faster than others. It's a matter of knowing which moves have what landing lag and not throwing out the unsafe ones willy-nilly.

 

[Loki]

Certain moves have more landing lag than other, also, some moves recovery makes them more viable if you dont fast-fall and stuff. In other words, everything has landing lag (in different values) and you need to figure out what moves and under what situations (short-hop, fast fall, etc) work best.

To name an example, Robin's fair has a good ammount of lag if he touches the ground while doing the move, however, the move has a rather low recovery as long as you dont fast-fall the move out of a short-hop, allowing you to do whats being called "auto-cancel". This means that, if I short-hop fair and then fast fall, I will have to deal with the landing lag, however if I short-hop, fair and dont fast fall, as soon as I touch the ground I should be able to act again because the move recovered while still in the air.

 

[TimeSmash]

I'd truly love a glitch thread that was active and stayed updated? Do you guys think it's a good idea to make?? I made on before, but in the general discussion thread I believe, not the competitive one

 

[25%Cotton]

is there a thread on characters whose fastfall aerials act as a semi-meteor? i've seen some individual threads/conversations in character-specific boards but not in general.

 

[TimeSmash]

I haven't seen anything like that, but a list of spikes/semi-spikes/meteors would be invaluable

 

[Sabaca]

I don't know wether that is known yet and i can't show any footage of it but i was trying some stuff out with shiek in training mode and found that you can do a Dash Cancelled Grab. Wich increases the range distance she covers with her dash grab.

 

[Comet7]

Is there a list of spikes and meteors in this game?

nevermind, since meteor canceling is gone

 

[Captain Norris]

Is there a list of spikes and meteors in this game?

I don't know, but Falcon has three spikes this game!

 

[Ogopogo]

Because it take so long to kill, any meteor is great in this game. Captain Falcon's dair is def one of the easier ones to land.

 

[Opana]

Roll canceled grabs can also cancel into pivot grabs.

 

[SoulOfKhaos]

Anyone know how to do that Fox combo?
Has anyone seen it before?

 

[Doopliss_Swe]

Is it known you can automatically jab cancel into crouch by holding the circle pad forward/backwards with a slight downwards angle, just barely so you start crouching? It allows you to jab from crouch or from a crawl, which means you'll start crouching/crawling again after the jab, giving you access to easy jab cancels without moving your left thumb whatsoever. Also allows you to easily jab cancel into a side B by Pressing A, then B. The side B will be thrown the other way if you do it by holding backwards instead of forwards. Pretty nice with Bowser, so you can grab them with side B after a single jab at really low percentages (Might be more of a tick throw than a combo, but still).

 

[Judo777]

It's possible to do even one-frame double inputs with the double tap technique. It's more of an arcade button technique thing, though. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p6-SN862FU

If you can do that on a 3DS with that tiny button then more power to you. I meant practically impossible sorry lol.

 

[Juker]

Anyone know how to do that Fox combo?
Has anyone seen it before?

If you're talking about the jab resetting, it's just: A,A, down - repeat. You can also just hold A until two hits have come out, then press down, and restart with As.

 

[Loota]

Has anyone else encountered some kind of momentum lock with airdodging after recovering from knockback? It has hit me multiple times with Lucario when sent up by some attack and then airdodging, then finding myself unable to move sideways at all during the dodge. I've died to it multiple times looking like a complete fool so I'd really like to know if someone knows more about it.

 

[mimgrim]

"JCing" is not a well known technique. JC grab, JC upsmash, JC shine, and "states that are 'jump-cancellable'" are well-known. I obviously know what those are and am not talking about those. "JC" is used in different ways. I don't know which way you mean if you just make up your own "JC" technique name.

You don't need to tilt your shield to do up-B or Usmash out of shield... something tells me you have no idea how any this works. The shield has nothing to do with cancelling the jump startup. The jump startup transitions from the shield animation, and as because of input leniency, attacks with "up" in it are allowed to transition from the jump startup animation.




So, then "JCing dash/skid animations" is cancelling the jump into dash/skid animations? You seem to be using "JC" to mean two different things: Cancelling the jump startup as in Uspecial OoS, or cancelling into jump from another state like dashing or skidding.


Anyway, so apparently you jump and then do a B move. Is the jump startup being cancelled or you just doing it after barely leaving the ground? No small hop should be occurring if it's cancelling the jump startup.

I have no ****ing idea how to make this any simpler then I already have.

Do it for yourself. Maybe then you will understand.

You can do any Special OoS and you can JC any Special from the dash and skid animations.

Now do you understand?

Good grief.

 

[PDOT]

i know this wasnt in melee, not sure about Brawl as i didnt play it,

But it seems like this game has a streetfighter counter type mechanic

in Streetfighter whenever you strike the opponent during the Startup Frames of their moves, you will score a Counter Hit which leads to more damage and hitstun

haven't tested it properly but it seems theres more knockback when you counter hit in this game. not sure about damage

...if theres a thread on it someone direct me

 

[Eekcast]

I already posted this in another thread, but it seemed more appropriate here.

You can DACUS pretty consistently by doing dash, attack, then up + grab (up input before grab input).

youtube.com/watch?v=Ysz7NGD2zlE&feature=youtu.be

Hopefully that helps people perform DACUS in real time without any modifications to their 3DS lol.

 

[JJpalmer]

I already posted this in another thread, but it seemed more appropriate here.

You can DACUS pretty consistently by doing dash, attack, then up + grab (up input before grab input).

youtube.com/watch?v=Ysz7NGD2zlE&feature=youtu.be

Hopefully that helps people perform DACUS in real time without any modifications to their 3DS lol.

good stuff i could never dacus in brawl/PM is there a trick to getting it out the dash all i end up doing is throwing

 

[Monkey D. Dragon]

Sorry for yet another noob question, but what is some of the useful lingo in the competitive Sm4sh community that I should get used to? I know Vectoring is holding the control stick the opposite way as you're flying off the stage, and Nair, Bair, Dair, and Uair are pretty obvious, too. However, I know there are a lot more words and acronyms I'm going to need to know to get anywhere here.

 

[Remzi]

One change that I love in this game is no more dead frame on jump.

In Brawl, if you inputted an aerial on the last frame of your jump, the attack input would be ignored. At times it felt like your aerials randomly wouldn't come out. It really was a terrible mechanic. Good riddance.

 

[san.]

One change that I love in this game is no more dead frame on jump.

In Brawl, if you inputted an aerial on the last frame of your jump, the attack input would be ignored. At times it felt like your aerials randomly wouldn't come out. It really was a terrible mechanic. Good riddance.

That will not be missed. Sadly, for me, the annoyance has been replaced by a buffering system where you can't buffer a double jump + aerial but another aerial instead, as well as a few other oddities. I hope you can buffer multiple inputs in the Wii U version.

 

[DeLux]

What's the frame advantage on when you steal the ledge from an opponent?

 

[Signia]

You can do any Special OoS and you can JC any Special from the dash and skid animations.

Now do you understand?

No, you're just restating it the same way as before, using language that I told you was confusing. You're refusing to tell me what you mean by "JC."

You have to be trolling, lol, or you don't know enough to explain what you're talking about.

 

[mimgrim]

No, you're just restating it the same way as before, using language that I told you was confusing. You're refusing to tell me what you mean by "JC."

You have to be trolling, lol, or you don't know enough to explain what you're talking about.

Start the game. Go to trainer. Pick Little mac. Go into shield and do like you would a Uspecial OoS but with a different special. Then do a dash, not a run, and do the jump input then do a Special soon after, then go into a skid animation and do the same thing. See it for yourself. Do it yourself. That's the only way I can get you to see what I'm talking about, as you can't seem to comprehend what I am saying.

I also found out this doesn't work for all Specials but instead seems to be a case by case thing for them with no conceivable pattern to them.

 

[Yoki]

What he's saying is that Jump Canceling can either mean:

A)Canceling jumpsquat into another move (e.g. Jump Cancelled Up Smash)
B)Canceling a move into a jump (e.g.Jump Cancelled Shine)

I tested it, and neither happens for any special besides Up Special - you're just jumping, then using a special. Some specials cancel vertical momentum and cause you to land after a couple frames and perform the grounded version (which isn't new either0, but neither the jumpsquat animation nor the jump is canceled. That doesn't make it worthless, and some characters can get a lot of mileage out of it (Little Mac and his KO Punch, for example), but it works as it always did.

 

[Thinkaman]

What's the frame advantage on when you steal the ledge from an opponent?

Now this is a pretty critical question!

Unfortunately (or fortunately?) it seems to vary based on how quickly you stole the ledge after their initial grab. I hope someone with the required video tools can measure this soon.

 

[DeLux]

yes someone please do

Loving this nomenclature argument LOL

 

[Dr. Tuen]

What's the frame advantage on when you steal the ledge from an opponent?

Oh I very much want to know this. I've been looking at "bump guarding" people. They grab the ledge, I grab the ledge, bump them and follow up. My current observations show that opponents can DI and jump faster than they can attack. So the frame advantage might be different for attacking and moving, just for whomever attempts to do the research on this.

 

[JamietheAuraUser]

i know this wasnt in melee, not sure about Brawl as i didnt play it,

But it seems like this game has a streetfighter counter type mechanic

in Streetfighter whenever you strike the opponent during the Startup Frames of their moves, you will score a Counter Hit which leads to more damage and hitstun

haven't tested it properly but it seems theres more knockback when you counter hit in this game. not sure about damage

...if theres a thread on it someone direct me

In Brawl and seemingly in Smash 4, attacks deal more knockback if the target is charging a Smash Attack when they're hit. Additionally, if your opponent happens to be holding the Circle Pad in the wrong direction when you hit them they can end up "vectoring" in the direction of the knockback, and this can result in earlier KOs.

 

[Yoki]

Stealing the ledge will only bump people offstage if they don't buffer a ledge action (e.g. jump, roll, etc...), so it won't have any competitive use once people learn that they should do that, sadly.

 

[Luco]

Must vectoring be applied at the time of hitstun to be useful or can it be applied while flying?

 

[JJpalmer]

I already posted this in another thread, but it seemed more appropriate here.

You can DACUS pretty consistently by doing dash, attack, then up + grab (up input before grab input).

youtube.com/watch?v=Ysz7NGD2zlE&feature=youtu.be

Hopefully that helps people perform DACUS in real time without any modifications to their 3DS lol.

I cant quote figure out the time any advice for it

 

[Luco]

Sorry for yet another noob question, but what is some of the useful lingo in the competitive Sm4sh community that I should get used to? I know Vectoring is holding the control stick the opposite way as you're flying off the stage, and Nair, Bair, Dair, and Uair are pretty obvious, too. However, I know there are a lot more words and acronyms I'm going to need to know to get anywhere here.

Oh I totally apologise that you didn't get an answer to this!

This is the Brawl one because I can't find the smash 3DS one but many of the terms apply. Go to post 6 or 7 in this thread and read from there. There's a lot there and you don't need to know all of it, but it's useful to reference any lingo you come across and if there's any particular lingo you want to know, it's a good place to go.

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-smash-lab-info-dump.353758/

Anyway, I can't actually DACUS no matter how hard I try. Is it my timing? I'm not sure how i'm doing it.

 

[KlefkiHolder]

Oh I totally apologise that you didn't get an answer to this!

This is the Brawl one because I can't find the smash 3DS one but many of the terms apply. Go to post 6 or 7 in this thread and read from there. There's a lot there and you don't need to know all of it, but it's useful to reference any lingo you come across and if there's any particular lingo you want to know, it's a good place to go.

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-smash-lab-info-dump.353758/

Anyway, I can't actually DACUS no matter how hard I try. Is it my timing? I'm not sure how i'm doing it.

Are you trying it in real time? Cuz if you are, its damn near impossible without a c stick. I can only do a few of them at x1/2 speed on my 3ds, certainly not at normal speed.

The reason some japanese players have been able to do it is because they're on a New 3ds, the one with the c stick. Sadly, that wont exit Japan or Australia until next year.

 

[Darklink401]

So I know landing lag is a thing. Cuz who doesn't. XD

Well

I've been sort of messing around a bit in training mode, and I've noticed that right before I land, if I tilt down for just a split second as if I wanted to crouch, the landing lag isn't present. As in, there is dust, but before the lag animation can start, my character is back to idle in an instant. I tried going from this to a forward-tilt and forward smash and both work faster than when I wait for the landing lag to finish.

Sooo is this a thing now or am I imagining it? x.x

EDIT:

This is it.

 

[nightSN]

With what character please, and what aerial?

Edit: i think you are just thinking its faster because you are fast falling.