El Duderino
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Aug 21, 2011
- Messages
- 570
And that's not a good reason to remove it?
-
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Mechanic Changes for SSB4
- Thread starter Kink-Link5
- Start date
Supreme Dirt
King of the Railway
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2009
- Messages
- 7,336
So the entire cast of Brawl except Lucario then
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
Ike disapproves of buffer.
@anyone arguing with smashchu
don't bother, tis like arguing with a brick wall.
@smaschu
all you do here is seem to complain about competitive play in smash bros when you don't even have the slightest clue about anything regarding it.
my question is simple
WHY ARE YOU AT THE BIGGEST SITE OF COMPETITIVE SMASH PLAYERS ON THE INTERNET?
Smashworld is pretty much the largest smash bros community on the web, and its mostly tailored for the competitive players.
if your whole purpose here is to just ***** about the competitive smash scene, with completely inaccurate and BS claims placed on the competitive players over the years by the butthurt babies like yourself , than tbh, gtfo.
don't bother, tis like arguing with a brick wall.
@smaschu
all you do here is seem to complain about competitive play in smash bros when you don't even have the slightest clue about anything regarding it.
my question is simple
WHY ARE YOU AT THE BIGGEST SITE OF COMPETITIVE SMASH PLAYERS ON THE INTERNET?
Smashworld is pretty much the largest smash bros community on the web, and its mostly tailored for the competitive players.
if your whole purpose here is to just ***** about the competitive smash scene, with completely inaccurate and BS claims placed on the competitive players over the years by the butthurt babies like yourself , than tbh, gtfo.
Can't help but wonder if Sakurai even knows about any of these mechanics. Based on every interview I've read, I'm getting the feeling that there's a difference between what he considers ATs and what we consider ATs.
Wouldn't be surprised if the most advanced stuff he knew was Wavedashing, Shield Jumps, and Bomb Jumps. The rest he unknowingly programs in once he feels he reachs a happy place and just lets people find them for themselves.
But yeah, get rid of random tripping, add more of what a lot of us probably here see as Easter Eggs and I think general audience will be content with whatever the general gameplay turns out to be.
Wouldn't be surprised if the most advanced stuff he knew was Wavedashing, Shield Jumps, and Bomb Jumps. The rest he unknowingly programs in once he feels he reachs a happy place and just lets people find them for themselves.
But yeah, get rid of random tripping, add more of what a lot of us probably here see as Easter Eggs and I think general audience will be content with whatever the general gameplay turns out to be.
certain things he clearly had to know about
especially L-cancelling as he even listed it on smash 64's website as an advanced tech, he just called it "smooth landing"
I feel he knows about quite a bit and originally put em in specifically for those that wanted a bit more out of the game than the typical casual audience would.
but for whatever reason he decided to remove a lot of it in brawl...and even though he added a few neat new additions like pivot grabs and footstool jumping, they didn't make up for all the things he took away as well as the other problems the game suffered from.
especially L-cancelling as he even listed it on smash 64's website as an advanced tech, he just called it "smooth landing"
I feel he knows about quite a bit and originally put em in specifically for those that wanted a bit more out of the game than the typical casual audience would.
but for whatever reason he decided to remove a lot of it in brawl...and even though he added a few neat new additions like pivot grabs and footstool jumping, they didn't make up for all the things he took away as well as the other problems the game suffered from.
Takeover1806
Smash Champion
heck yea!!!!!!
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
You can never have too many people wanting a good thing.
Kink-Link5
Smash Hero
Don't mind them. Too many people want Bawrl 2: Electric Boogaloo.
Ferio_Kun
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Sep 18, 2007
- Messages
- 288
While I see everyone points, it is pretty easy to see that the game will not be going back to Melee.
Just look at the little we have heard from Sakurai. He's going to change it up. He's taking it "in a different direction".
Don't expect to see a game like Melee or even Brawl for that matter. It's going to be it's own beast.
For my list: Random trips out. Keep them on attacks.
I would like air grabs.
Just look at the little we have heard from Sakurai. He's going to change it up. He's taking it "in a different direction".
Don't expect to see a game like Melee or even Brawl for that matter. It's going to be it's own beast.
For my list: Random trips out. Keep them on attacks.
I would like air grabs.
Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
Certain characters do have specials that feature grabbing purposes though.I think air grabs would be a silly mechanic. I mean, it's like what's the point since you can't shield in the air?
DakotaBonez
The Depraved Optimist
I thought this entire thread was just talking about mechanics removed from brawl. Maybe the title should be changed to mechanics wanted for SSB4?
Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
I've renamed the thread title to be more accurate with what the primary post is displaying.
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
Thanks, now I have a good reason to work on that post I wanted to post about ALL the changes I want to see for SSB4.
"Don't argue with smashchu gaiz"
>Argues with smashchu
Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
While I'm thinking about it, I'll sticky this thread as well, just so that it doesn't get overlooked.
Big-Cat
Challenge accepted.
Ok, so here's the big post I mentioned. It's gone under various revisions based on games I'm playing at the time in terms of inspiration. Just a disclaimer, I'm not a tournament Smash player, but I play other fighters mostly so you'll see lots of inspiration from there, but some mechanics like air dashes are found in games like Kingdom Hearts.
[COLLAPSE="Throws:"]
Gone: Pummeling
Reason: I never saw much value in it that wasn't the Ness/Lucas lock. Also, since the throws do less damage because of the pummels, it's probably just best to go back to just the throws. When to decide the direction is like Smash 64 but a little quicker.
New: Grab Breaks
Reason: Commonly known as tech grabs, this is the result of two characters try to grab each other at the same time (does not apply to special grabs which are random and port priority doesn't factor). When done, the two grabbers push each other away resetting the situation. This also gets rid of the notorious chain grabs.
New: Two grabs for tether users
Reason: Provide the tether users a quicker alternative. Do a neutral grab input like everyone else to get a normal grab. Do side+Grab for the tether input. Tether grabs cannot be grab breaked, but they can still be dodged.
Change: Throws only grab grounded characters.
Reason: Adds mixups on close range offense and can help prevent chain grabs. Also, certain command grabs are capable of grabbing airborne opponents (i.e. Koopa Klaw) and some characters will have air throws.[/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE="Movement"]
Gone: Random Tripping
Reason: Do I need to explain this?
New: Air Dash
Reason: To provide new aerial mobility. Uses up one jump each time. To do it, do double tap forward or backward for the intended direction.
New: Turn-Around
Reason: Provide players the use of their BAirs while facing forward and brings back the old edgeguarding game without scrubbing it up. Can also be used to run away and be on the offensive at the same time. To do this, a half circle with the control stick from the direction you're facing to the other side.
Returning: Momentum
Reason: Smash needs to obey some laws of physics as Melee and (presumably) 64 did. To, say, go in the opposite direction, you must hold back for a specific length of time. This is so Turn-Around doesn't case momentum loss if practiced enough.
[/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE="Defense"]
Change: How to block.
Reason: To provide a more in depth, yet more intuitive means of blocking and to also provide positioning based mixups.
The shield bubble is now reduced to somewhere 1/4 and 1/3 its original size. To change the position of the shield, move it with the control stick. As you can see, the shield will only cover part of your character's body. This allows for mixups based on hitbox and shield positioning, opening a wide array of tactics never seen in Smash.
Due to this change, the shield no longer shrinks over time. Rather, it develops a deeper shade of its color like Yoshi's shield. To roll or dodge out of the shield, you must double tap for the roll or dodge you want. This is to prevent accidental rolls or dodges while blocking or vice versa.
New: Move specific blockstun.
Reason: It just makes more sense really. Also adds a new sense of risk:reward.
New: Universal Counter
Reason: Provide some OOS/Out of Blocking options for each character. At the cost of some meter and pressing B while blocking as the hit lands, the blocker parries the attack and responds with some specific attack. Luigi could have his Tornado as an UC, for example.
Change: Hybrid Air Dodge
Reason: Compromise between the two air dodge versions. Neutral is limited to two dodges in the air while the other directions are limited to one and go into a helpless animation.
New: Aerial Ukemi
Reason: Brawl's air dodge basically allowed this at the expense of reducing hitstun. This seeks to fix this by making it where this done only at the end of the hitstun. Do a shield input and and hold, left, right, or neutral to recover in that direction. Some vulnerability is on the ukemi so this is where aerial mixups come into play. The initial part of the aerial ukemi has invincibility though.
Changed: DI streamlined to just SDI or at least a simplification of DI to just three options.
Reason: Always seemed more complicated to me than it should be.
Changed: SDI inputs.
SDI Inputs now just require one stick to specify a direction.
Reason: Why was it that we needed two sticks to give out one direction? That just makes things difficult for beginner players to get the hang of SDI.
To make things easier, there is a slightly longer freeze when attacks land than before. Logically, the length of the freeze would depend on the attack strength.
Change: SDI is only on specific attacks.
Reason: To encourage the player to decide between mixups and dealing certain damage. Also, to make mutli-hitting moves not so poor because they could be SDI on the first or second hit (i.e. Zelda's USmash). [/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE="Attacks"]
New: IASA Frames on active frames
From the time an attack comes out until its recovery, the player can go from landing one attack to a jump, dash, air dash, special, normal, etc. depending on the move while on these frames. Where the IASA frames are depends on the attack, but most of your attacks will have their IASA frames specifically on the active frames.
Reason: Provides way more options for pressure, escaping, and keeping the flow of the match. Also increase the match's pace dramatically
New: Canned Combos
Reason: To encourage a stronger ground game. These combos work very similarly to Starfox Adventures' combat system, but further expanded on. You still have access to past attacks, but this opens up combo possibilities if explored enough to where you can juggle or link canned combos together. These chains may provide attacks and specials exclusive to a canned combo.
An example of a canned combo would be Link doing A > A > 3A which would be two swings and a swing on the head for a ground bounce. The number, length, and inputs of the canned combos would be determined on a case by case basis.
There are also aerial canned combos, but is not necessarily a universal feature.
New: Universal Smash Combo
Reason: Provides a universal flowchart/tree for all characters. The flowchart, at its basic level is this: Jabx1-3 > Tilt > Smash > Special. This also gives beginners an easy to do combo with enough different ways to do it. In the air, the universal Smash Chain is NAir > Direction Aerial of Choice > Special.
New: Counter Attacks
Reason: Higher risk, higher reward. Countering an attack leads to higher damage and longer hitstun or some property like crumbling for the first attack. Certain moves will have additional properties. PK Fire, for example, will have a burn effect lasting a few seconds if performed as a counter. Note, this mechanics does not apply for universal counters.
New: Smash Meter
Reason: Provide more options. Think of it working like MP in RPGs. The meter has many uses. It can be used for universal counters for 25% meter, super specials for 25%, super smashes (more on that later) for 50%, or final smashes for 100%.
New: Super Specials
Reason: Again, more options. By doing B+A+Input, you get a stronger version of special with new properties. Some of these might include invincible startup, ground bounce, projectile invulnerability, etc.
New: Super Smashes
Reason: Give us a more balanced super compared to Brawl's final smashes. These are your typical fighting game supers. They can be canceled on hit from specials or normals if the move you're comboing from allows it. The input for the Super Smash will depend on the character. Every Smash ball fills the meter by 50%
Change: Final Smash
Now they're more like fatalities minus the gore. Under certain condictions, you can end the match in a very flashy way with a cutscene and what not. Not the most practical mechanic, but a nice bit of fanservice. Final Smashes are doing with down,down,B+A. [/COLLAPSE]
Might update later.
[COLLAPSE="Throws:"]
Gone: Pummeling
Reason: I never saw much value in it that wasn't the Ness/Lucas lock. Also, since the throws do less damage because of the pummels, it's probably just best to go back to just the throws. When to decide the direction is like Smash 64 but a little quicker.
New: Grab Breaks
Reason: Commonly known as tech grabs, this is the result of two characters try to grab each other at the same time (does not apply to special grabs which are random and port priority doesn't factor). When done, the two grabbers push each other away resetting the situation. This also gets rid of the notorious chain grabs.
New: Two grabs for tether users
Reason: Provide the tether users a quicker alternative. Do a neutral grab input like everyone else to get a normal grab. Do side+Grab for the tether input. Tether grabs cannot be grab breaked, but they can still be dodged.
Change: Throws only grab grounded characters.
Reason: Adds mixups on close range offense and can help prevent chain grabs. Also, certain command grabs are capable of grabbing airborne opponents (i.e. Koopa Klaw) and some characters will have air throws.[/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE="Movement"]
Gone: Random Tripping
Reason: Do I need to explain this?
New: Air Dash
Reason: To provide new aerial mobility. Uses up one jump each time. To do it, do double tap forward or backward for the intended direction.
New: Turn-Around
Reason: Provide players the use of their BAirs while facing forward and brings back the old edgeguarding game without scrubbing it up. Can also be used to run away and be on the offensive at the same time. To do this, a half circle with the control stick from the direction you're facing to the other side.
Returning: Momentum
Reason: Smash needs to obey some laws of physics as Melee and (presumably) 64 did. To, say, go in the opposite direction, you must hold back for a specific length of time. This is so Turn-Around doesn't case momentum loss if practiced enough.
[/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE="Defense"]
Change: How to block.
Reason: To provide a more in depth, yet more intuitive means of blocking and to also provide positioning based mixups.
The shield bubble is now reduced to somewhere 1/4 and 1/3 its original size. To change the position of the shield, move it with the control stick. As you can see, the shield will only cover part of your character's body. This allows for mixups based on hitbox and shield positioning, opening a wide array of tactics never seen in Smash.
Due to this change, the shield no longer shrinks over time. Rather, it develops a deeper shade of its color like Yoshi's shield. To roll or dodge out of the shield, you must double tap for the roll or dodge you want. This is to prevent accidental rolls or dodges while blocking or vice versa.
New: Move specific blockstun.
Reason: It just makes more sense really. Also adds a new sense of risk:reward.
New: Universal Counter
Reason: Provide some OOS/Out of Blocking options for each character. At the cost of some meter and pressing B while blocking as the hit lands, the blocker parries the attack and responds with some specific attack. Luigi could have his Tornado as an UC, for example.
Change: Hybrid Air Dodge
Reason: Compromise between the two air dodge versions. Neutral is limited to two dodges in the air while the other directions are limited to one and go into a helpless animation.
New: Aerial Ukemi
Reason: Brawl's air dodge basically allowed this at the expense of reducing hitstun. This seeks to fix this by making it where this done only at the end of the hitstun. Do a shield input and and hold, left, right, or neutral to recover in that direction. Some vulnerability is on the ukemi so this is where aerial mixups come into play. The initial part of the aerial ukemi has invincibility though.
Changed: DI streamlined to just SDI or at least a simplification of DI to just three options.
Reason: Always seemed more complicated to me than it should be.
Changed: SDI inputs.
SDI Inputs now just require one stick to specify a direction.
Reason: Why was it that we needed two sticks to give out one direction? That just makes things difficult for beginner players to get the hang of SDI.
To make things easier, there is a slightly longer freeze when attacks land than before. Logically, the length of the freeze would depend on the attack strength.
Change: SDI is only on specific attacks.
Reason: To encourage the player to decide between mixups and dealing certain damage. Also, to make mutli-hitting moves not so poor because they could be SDI on the first or second hit (i.e. Zelda's USmash). [/COLLAPSE]
[COLLAPSE="Attacks"]
New: IASA Frames on active frames
From the time an attack comes out until its recovery, the player can go from landing one attack to a jump, dash, air dash, special, normal, etc. depending on the move while on these frames. Where the IASA frames are depends on the attack, but most of your attacks will have their IASA frames specifically on the active frames.
Reason: Provides way more options for pressure, escaping, and keeping the flow of the match. Also increase the match's pace dramatically
New: Canned Combos
Reason: To encourage a stronger ground game. These combos work very similarly to Starfox Adventures' combat system, but further expanded on. You still have access to past attacks, but this opens up combo possibilities if explored enough to where you can juggle or link canned combos together. These chains may provide attacks and specials exclusive to a canned combo.
An example of a canned combo would be Link doing A > A > 3A which would be two swings and a swing on the head for a ground bounce. The number, length, and inputs of the canned combos would be determined on a case by case basis.
There are also aerial canned combos, but is not necessarily a universal feature.
New: Universal Smash Combo
Reason: Provides a universal flowchart/tree for all characters. The flowchart, at its basic level is this: Jabx1-3 > Tilt > Smash > Special. This also gives beginners an easy to do combo with enough different ways to do it. In the air, the universal Smash Chain is NAir > Direction Aerial of Choice > Special.
New: Counter Attacks
Reason: Higher risk, higher reward. Countering an attack leads to higher damage and longer hitstun or some property like crumbling for the first attack. Certain moves will have additional properties. PK Fire, for example, will have a burn effect lasting a few seconds if performed as a counter. Note, this mechanics does not apply for universal counters.
New: Smash Meter
Reason: Provide more options. Think of it working like MP in RPGs. The meter has many uses. It can be used for universal counters for 25% meter, super specials for 25%, super smashes (more on that later) for 50%, or final smashes for 100%.
New: Super Specials
Reason: Again, more options. By doing B+A+Input, you get a stronger version of special with new properties. Some of these might include invincible startup, ground bounce, projectile invulnerability, etc.
New: Super Smashes
Reason: Give us a more balanced super compared to Brawl's final smashes. These are your typical fighting game supers. They can be canceled on hit from specials or normals if the move you're comboing from allows it. The input for the Super Smash will depend on the character. Every Smash ball fills the meter by 50%
Change: Final Smash
Now they're more like fatalities minus the gore. Under certain condictions, you can end the match in a very flashy way with a cutscene and what not. Not the most practical mechanic, but a nice bit of fanservice. Final Smashes are doing with down,down,B+A. [/COLLAPSE]
Might update later.
Demon-oni
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2007
- Messages
- 472
- NNID
- Thanatos-Demon
- 3DS FC
- 0147-1152-7184
Love to see random tripping get removed, but keep trip related moves. Like ROB/Zelda dtilt or Diddy with a banana. Could make some interesting combos/setups.
Air dodge needs less invul. if it doesn't put them in free fall.
Gliding needs to put you in free fall. In exchange, you can do any aerial out of 'em like in P:M.
hitstun cancelling needs to go.
We need non-tumble DI.
Auto l-cancel. Middle-ground to both casuals and hardcore players.
Z-tethers grab walls. up B tethers sweetspots the ledge. up b tether can't be edge hogged to prevent easy gg gimps on characters like oli or Zamus.
Some faster fall rates please. I shouldn't just run of the stage with mario, do a fair, and still live without nado or up b walljump.
I like what someone said about angling shields rather than having them giant. That too.
Get rid of perfect shielding. If anything, at least make it as difficult as it was in melee.
Air dodge needs less invul. if it doesn't put them in free fall.
Gliding needs to put you in free fall. In exchange, you can do any aerial out of 'em like in P:M.
hitstun cancelling needs to go.
We need non-tumble DI.
Auto l-cancel. Middle-ground to both casuals and hardcore players.
Z-tethers grab walls. up B tethers sweetspots the ledge. up b tether can't be edge hogged to prevent easy gg gimps on characters like oli or Zamus.
Some faster fall rates please. I shouldn't just run of the stage with mario, do a fair, and still live without nado or up b walljump.
I like what someone said about angling shields rather than having them giant. That too.
Get rid of perfect shielding. If anything, at least make it as difficult as it was in melee.
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
How about no auto L-canceling. You might as well just say "low landing lag on all aerials." That would make shield pressure too easy, as the differences in light shields, full shields, hitting an opponent, or hitting nothing all require different timings for reducing landing lag, as opposed to automatically reducing lag which doesn't punish you for predicting incorrectly by missing when you intended to hit, or when when you expected to hit nothing but hit a shield instead. What I'm saying is that it deepens the defensive game AND offensive game by requiring conscious thought on both parts.
I agree with the rest of what you mentioned though.
I agree with the rest of what you mentioned though.
Demon-oni
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2007
- Messages
- 472
- NNID
- Thanatos-Demon
- 3DS FC
- 0147-1152-7184
I can understand where you're coming from. I was just trying to make it a little more ease of access, even on a simple mechanic.
Also a couple things I forgot to mention. Auto snap up b...I absolutely hate it, but some people like it. So here's a thought. First, make the snap box significantly smaller. Then keep the snap like normal, but if you hold down during the up-b, you won't grab the snapbox. A similar concept to in melee if you held up on certain recoveries going down (ie: firefox at a down angle) you would snap to the ledge rather than passing through it.
I'd also like to immediately be able to let go of the ledge again please. That 5-10 frames where I can't let go irks me through all the seven hells.
Also a couple things I forgot to mention. Auto snap up b...I absolutely hate it, but some people like it. So here's a thought. First, make the snap box significantly smaller. Then keep the snap like normal, but if you hold down during the up-b, you won't grab the snapbox. A similar concept to in melee if you held up on certain recoveries going down (ie: firefox at a down angle) you would snap to the ledge rather than passing through it.
I'd also like to immediately be able to let go of the ledge again please. That 5-10 frames where I can't let go irks me through all the seven hells.
not arguign with him
just asking him a simple question, and then giving him a polite suggestion to leave
Mario & Sonic Guy
Old rivalries live on!
I'd rather keep the pummeling that you can do when you grab someone. After all, if your opponent has taken a lot of damage, you can pummel more times to build up the opponent's damage before delivering the throw; it's much harder for players to break free from grabs when their current damage is high.
DakotaBonez
The Depraved Optimist
Button Mapping for Footstool jumping. More low attacks that cause trip.
Meteor smashes that cause characters to be pitfalled.
Meteor smashes that cause characters to be pitfalled.
One idea that I've been thinking of is a sort of... "upgrade" to wavedashing. in a sense.
The general idea, is that each character would have one of four "levels" of wavedashing.
Also: some button mapping on the character select screen would be nice. I don't know why no fighting games ever do this, and it's rather irritating.
The general idea, is that each character would have one of four "levels" of wavedashing.
- Low: Easy to do, but does not go too far. Basically a normal roll, but quicker and further, with the disadvantage that you'd be vulnerable.
- Medium: Harder to pull off than low, but you get a longer dash, and you can jump around while dashing. Upon second jump, dash will always stop (this also applies to high).
- High: Pretty difficult, but it lasts long (2-3 seconds) and you can change directions as well as jump.
- Extreme: Requires perfect timing, but allows for long and quick dashes, as well as being able to jump multiple times while keeping your dash. Would only be given to characters whose moveset is based around dashing.
Also: some button mapping on the character select screen would be nice. I don't know why no fighting games ever do this, and it's rather irritating.
Master Knight DH
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2008
- Messages
- 460
I posted this:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=325485
To summarize the ideas, here they are:
*Aerial smashes
*Character Mode, and one that'd be more develop than that tease we got in Subspace Emissary
*Power system like in Kid Icarus Uprising to provide a good happy medium for superarmor
What I want is power to actually NOT fail, which requires the following:
*Minimized damage and easy hitting actually suffers, NOT providing any sort of momentum advantage, they don't deserve it without extra effort. Yes, flinching needs to be more conditional.
*No single move connecting can lead in ANY way to an instant stock off if the character has halfway reasonable defensive power, especially in comparison to the opponent's offensive power. That is a good way to render defensive power moot. Infinites/chaingrabs on any character who can dodge or have bad defensive power to begin with are fine, but NOT characters like Bowser. Also, TONE UP THE RECOVERY MERCY INVINCIBILITY! I'm miraculously predictable because my only working options for getting up do nothing to protect me from cooldown issue abuse.
*Weight is not so useless as to let you take only 10% extra.
A few things that could help:
*KB decay is a hard value instead of a percentage, so that people can't spam the same bloody things over and over again. (Meta Knight's Tornado, for example, would no longer be able to stunlock a character like Dedede for more than ONE duration per SEVERAL attacks.)
*Speed getup percentage limits actually vary between character. Either that or actually have damage done vary on a per character basis.
*Something to counterbalance against the ring-out objective, to prevent stock camping.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=325485
To summarize the ideas, here they are:
*Aerial smashes
*Character Mode, and one that'd be more develop than that tease we got in Subspace Emissary
*Power system like in Kid Icarus Uprising to provide a good happy medium for superarmor
What I want is power to actually NOT fail, which requires the following:
*Minimized damage and easy hitting actually suffers, NOT providing any sort of momentum advantage, they don't deserve it without extra effort. Yes, flinching needs to be more conditional.
*No single move connecting can lead in ANY way to an instant stock off if the character has halfway reasonable defensive power, especially in comparison to the opponent's offensive power. That is a good way to render defensive power moot. Infinites/chaingrabs on any character who can dodge or have bad defensive power to begin with are fine, but NOT characters like Bowser. Also, TONE UP THE RECOVERY MERCY INVINCIBILITY! I'm miraculously predictable because my only working options for getting up do nothing to protect me from cooldown issue abuse.
*Weight is not so useless as to let you take only 10% extra.
A few things that could help:
*KB decay is a hard value instead of a percentage, so that people can't spam the same bloody things over and over again. (Meta Knight's Tornado, for example, would no longer be able to stunlock a character like Dedede for more than ONE duration per SEVERAL attacks.)
*Speed getup percentage limits actually vary between character. Either that or actually have damage done vary on a per character basis.
*Something to counterbalance against the ring-out objective, to prevent stock camping.
DrinkingFood
Smash Hero
Those are potentially some of the worst ideas I've seen for a smash game ever. With the exception of a couple of those which I'm too lazy to sort out.
Master Knight DH
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Apr 1, 2008
- Messages
- 460
Let me guess: your advice for using a character or whatnot who is designed to take hits and instead reward good tactics is "never get hit"?
Never mind that defensive power could be useful in staying near opponents and forcing them to blink.
xX1337Sn1PeZaSsAsS1nXx
Smash Cadet
not being able to shield out of an initial dash just makes the game less defensive.
Demon-oni
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2007
- Messages
- 472
- NNID
- Thanatos-Demon
- 3DS FC
- 0147-1152-7184
@master knight
I see what you're trying to do with some of those, but either they way you're explaining them or their original natures would be counter productive makes it seem like you don't exactly know what you're talking about.
I understand you want to make it so that power based characters have an equal grounding in this game with speedy characters. It's true by it's nature, speedy characters have the advantage. Rather than implementing some weird system non flinch weak hits universally, I think that powerhouses should house potentially large amounts of super armor//heavy armor/light armor. Take a look at P:M Bowser. He's a perfect example. Light armor crawling to get around annoying projectile harass, super armor on all of his smashes and two aerials make him not only harder to juggle but even scarier to try poking out on pressure. Let's just hope the new team put super armor into better use than Sakurai did, cuz that was pathetic.
I'll be completely honest, aerial smashes sound stupid and counter productive to what you want. Only faster characters would benefit from this. Stronger aerial kill moves, stronger hitting gimps, delayable juggle moves would destroy any character. Hard hitters already have aerials like smashes. Take a look at Ganon. I never want to get hit by any aerial of his except his neutral air at best.
And it's nice to see you want to improve character diversity, but remember a few things. Before messing with system mechanics, try tweaking the character balance first. And also, Smash is a game heavily based on it's movement. It doesn't really have much of a cancel system, so you only need to focus on links for combos and the movements necessary to connect those links. So just because they may do things to help the heavy hitters, don't be surprised if the system still favors the speedies just little bit.
Also, I personally feel KB decay is a stupid system. Maybe MK is ridiculous atm, but because of it characters like Sonic or ROB can't compete. Nerf MK, get rid of KB decay. Simple.
Also, I wouldn't mind being able to shield out of initial dash. It's the shield itself that needs a nerf if you want it to be a more offensive game.
I've said also a lot this post.
I see what you're trying to do with some of those, but either they way you're explaining them or their original natures would be counter productive makes it seem like you don't exactly know what you're talking about.
I understand you want to make it so that power based characters have an equal grounding in this game with speedy characters. It's true by it's nature, speedy characters have the advantage. Rather than implementing some weird system non flinch weak hits universally, I think that powerhouses should house potentially large amounts of super armor//heavy armor/light armor. Take a look at P:M Bowser. He's a perfect example. Light armor crawling to get around annoying projectile harass, super armor on all of his smashes and two aerials make him not only harder to juggle but even scarier to try poking out on pressure. Let's just hope the new team put super armor into better use than Sakurai did, cuz that was pathetic.
I'll be completely honest, aerial smashes sound stupid and counter productive to what you want. Only faster characters would benefit from this. Stronger aerial kill moves, stronger hitting gimps, delayable juggle moves would destroy any character. Hard hitters already have aerials like smashes. Take a look at Ganon. I never want to get hit by any aerial of his except his neutral air at best.
And it's nice to see you want to improve character diversity, but remember a few things. Before messing with system mechanics, try tweaking the character balance first. And also, Smash is a game heavily based on it's movement. It doesn't really have much of a cancel system, so you only need to focus on links for combos and the movements necessary to connect those links. So just because they may do things to help the heavy hitters, don't be surprised if the system still favors the speedies just little bit.
Also, I personally feel KB decay is a stupid system. Maybe MK is ridiculous atm, but because of it characters like Sonic or ROB can't compete. Nerf MK, get rid of KB decay. Simple.
Also, I wouldn't mind being able to shield out of initial dash. It's the shield itself that needs a nerf if you want it to be a more offensive game.
I've said also a lot this post.
xX1337Sn1PeZaSsAsS1nXx
Smash Cadet
Speedier characters aren't necessarily better, Sonic aint that good.
Demon-oni
Smash Journeyman
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- 0147-1152-7184
Not always better, but generally the game's system itself caters to those that are fast overall. IMO sonic would be pretty good if he could kill before 170% without a lucky fsmash.
But then again, if you want to see an example of speedier characters in general, don't just look at movement speed for good characters. For instance, Brawl MK, Diddy, Olimar or Melee S Tier, Falcon, Marth. Yes there will be exceptions to the rule such as snake high in brawl and sonic low or pichu worst in melee, but these are more things about balance (snake having his smash like tilts, sonic's inability to kill, pichu being....pichu) than the system itself. The system still benefits those with overall good movement speed, attack speed, etc.
But I digress, let's move back to system changes we'd like to see. All in favor of having an actual way to get friends for the online portion rather relying on 3rd party sites like fsmash.com say I.
But then again, if you want to see an example of speedier characters in general, don't just look at movement speed for good characters. For instance, Brawl MK, Diddy, Olimar or Melee S Tier, Falcon, Marth. Yes there will be exceptions to the rule such as snake high in brawl and sonic low or pichu worst in melee, but these are more things about balance (snake having his smash like tilts, sonic's inability to kill, pichu being....pichu) than the system itself. The system still benefits those with overall good movement speed, attack speed, etc.
But I digress, let's move back to system changes we'd like to see. All in favor of having an actual way to get friends for the online portion rather relying on 3rd party sites like fsmash.com say I.