MBR Application Process is Closed

[Divinokage]

Downair from the bottom, jump to the top platform, waveland in place down, upsmash, Star KO gg. =)

 

[Devil Ray]

number 10 could be fixed easily by adding, "both" to it. especially since 99.9999% in the mbr should have both to a certain degree.

but for some strange reason, i find #10 way more polarizing than #11, even though both seem split as questions. It's possible that the hits+combos concept is more abstract, or that certain characters can combo well but not punish. not sure, but both questions could be phrased a little better.

 

[KirbyKaze]

So much discussion on two questions. Open-ended questions, mind you.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

And then Cactus didn't let anyone in

 

[Teczer0]

What a freakin troll

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

damn scumbag cactuar

 

[The Upholder]

First time I met cactus I played him on FD and he repeatedly 3 stocked me. back in...05? I didn't know who he was, and I complained loudly.

 

[Cactuar]

Secretly, I'm just a random scrub who has a history of lucky wins here and there.



When is Cactuar going to post who the leaders are? Oh wait I'm Cactuar.

...

Spoiler

West Coast: HugS, Fly_Amanita, TBD

East Coast: Teczero, TBD, TBD

Da Souf: Dr. PeePee, DoH, Hungrybox

Midwest: TBD, TBD

Canada: Kage, KirbyKaze

Europe: Marc (Interim)


TBD just means we need to discuss more candidates.

I really have no idea who to nominate for Midwest leadership.

Note that the list of leaders is missing a few here and there. We will fill the roles as we go.

 

[Divinokage]

Wasn't KK with me?

 

[Vts]

nice list of leaders, 2-3 of them i'm surprised about but good list

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Good **** Midwest

 

[Divinokage]

MW is top tier, lol.

Now since I'm a leader *lifts sword* You will all bow down before me!

 

[DtJ Jungle]

On a serious note, good group of leaders.

 

[Strong Badam]

Of those who applied, I'd be most comfortable with Cosmo!, KishPrime, or Jungle as the Midwest leaders.

 

[Roneblaster]

supermatt, cosmo, and Rat. for MW leaders.

 

[Mogwai]

joshu #1 and only choice for MW leaders.

 

[Juggleguy]

Here's a better question for you all to debate: which is more important to the MBR, player skill level or community contributions?

 

[The Upholder]

I would say community contributions. I think the MBr's biggest goal shouldn't be things like tiers and rulesets (rulesets are great as is, very little to haggle about), but rather things like expanding/developing the community. Not to mention player knowledge isn't necessarily related to skill. I could have all the frame data and understand all the mechanics very well, but that doesn't mean I have the ability to do well. Theoretical vs. practical and all that.

 

[Divinokage]

Here's a better question for you all to debate: which is more important to the MBR, player skill level or community contributions?

To me it goes hand in hand. The better you are, the more you truly understand about the game. Once you have learned everything you need to know and you've actually shown you can destroy people with your knowledge/wisdom.. then I believe it's now your turn to contribute as best you can for aspiring players. Because I mean I was a huge noob too and I have played and gotten help from countless people. I also believe I should do the same because others were kind enough to teach me the ways. The whole community has a Master/Student relationship somewhat.. when you become a teacher for other people there's a whole new road ahead of you.. it's actually really fun. You see a whole different perspective and you can increase your level even more by doing so. You can see even more bad habits for example, it's funny... you see their incorrect mindsets, etc. It's badass.

As a sidenote, I mean as a teacher, you can only show someone that they are doing things wrong but it's really up to the person to fix those problems... there's sooo many factors to determine how fast a person can improve... it's pretty unbelievable. It can get frustrating when you see the same person doing the same mistake a million times and they never learn... Oh well.

Also, can you imagine a world full of people equally skilled as PP? lol. Would that be interesting or boring.. you guys think?

That's what I think about that.

 

[The Upholder]

As a sidenote, I mean as a teacher, you can only show someone that they are doing things wrong but it's really up to the person to fix those problems... there's sooo many factors to determine how fast a person can improve... it's pretty unbelievable. It can get frustrating when you see the same person doing the same mistake a million times and they never learn... Oh well.

Well yeah, but the point of a teacher is, if they're still making the mistake, you need to figure out why they're making that mistake and figure out how to make them stop. For instance, if someone keeps DIing the same way during a tech chase or something, if you just say "don't do that" they probably won't break the habit because when you're playing it's hard to remember one thing. Instead, practice with them, just deliberately throwing them, and forcing them to think about it each time. If you do that enough, they'll eventually replace the muscle memory and associate that situation with your practice, and thus react differently.

 

[Dark Hart]

Here's a better question for you all to debate: which is more important to the MBR, player skill level or community contributions?

I think it would depend on one's definition of contribution...

t3h Icy has made tons of contributions to the Melee community, yet has really gotten no notability skill-wise, where as someone like Cosmo is a very knowledgeable player and has proven his skill over and over with the character we know as ZELDA <333333, and that alone I'd consider a contribution.

Then there are the shoe-ins, people like KK and PP. People who have shown and proven their skill countless times, and have made large contributions to the Melee community with their many helpful threads and posts, and are frequent general contributors all around.

MW is top tier, lol.

Now since I'm a leader *lifts sword* You will all bow down before me!

... guess I need to talk smash theory on facebook with you in hopes of getting in...


/suck up

 

[Divinokage]

Well yeah, but the point of a teacher is, if they're still making the mistake, you need to figure out why they're making that mistake and figure out how to make them stop. For instance, if someone keeps DIing the same way during a tech chase or something, if you just say "don't do that" they probably won't break the habit because when you're playing it's hard to remember one thing. Instead, practice with them, just deliberately throwing them, and forcing them to think about it each time. If you do that enough, they'll eventually replace the muscle memory and associate that situation with your practice, and thus react differently.

This is why I began to do best of 101 sets with lower skilled players, if they see the same situation happening in the video x100 times then I'm definitely positive they will find ways to not do it anymore. For example, Falco Side B above the ledge.. I downtilt into Fair for a KO. When I chat with that person later after he watched the whole set, he told me what his mistakes was, isn't that awesome? He's consciously telling me what his mistakes were without me telling him, I just repeated the same situation a lot of times during the MM.

I personally think this is a good way to force people not to do the same mistake because this is what people have done to me lol and it worked well for me. You don't really need to say anything, you can just repeat the same situation in game x100 times. If they don't learn after all that then.. I guess scrubs will be scrubs. lol.

 

[Juggleguy]

I think it would depend on one's definition of contribution...

t3h Icy has made tons of contributions to the Melee community, yet has really gotten no notability skill-wise, where as someone like Cosmo is a very knowledgeable player and has proven his skill over and over with the character we know as ZELDA <333333, and that alone I'd consider a contribution.

Then there are the shoe-ins, people like KK and PP. People who have shown and proven their skill countless times, and have made large contributions to the Melee community with their many helpful threads and posts, and are frequent general contributors all around.

I'm mostly referring to contributions that are not directly gameplay-related. Examples: tournament organization, video recording/uploading, taking on projects like a Smasher database or character rankings, leadership roles on Smashboards like directing the "4 stocked" thread or the "list of livestreams" thread. I think these are far more important to the overall health of the Melee community than high-level character development or gameplay advice. I would argue that the competitive scene grows more from an expansion of community rather than an elevation of metagame. But I'm interested in others' opinions, so that's what I'm asking for.

 

[t3h Icy]

t3h Icy has made tons of contributions to the Melee community, yet has really gotten no notability skill-wise, where as someone like Cosmo is a very knowledgeable player and has proven his skill over and over with the character we know as ZELDA <333333, and that alone I'd consider a contribution.

<3 :3 I live in the middle of nowhere (until June) so it's hard, but I'm actually housing Blunted Object this weekend starting tomorrow night, so maybe he can give word on how I stack up, lol. If I'm not what the MBR is looking for, that's fine, I'll just have to get myself out there and show off my stuff, then try again when I'm ****** BC. :D

 

[Teczer0]

I think both are relevant obviously.

If a player isn't particularly good in both skill level and community contributions its in my opinion that they should excel at whichever one they are picked for.

Imo I think users like yourself, and other major contributors deserve a chance in the MBR. There are things that people such as myself would probably know little to nothing about that people like yourself would know. Like tournament organization which would help especially when we decide to push a project that may require too much time to implement.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Both are definitely needed in order for the MBR to help the community move forward. I think in the past the MBR has been mostly members chosen based on skill. As Teczero already stated, established tournament organizers or project leaders can help other projects move forward and broaden the horizons and reach of the MBR. People are talking about MBR sponsored tournaments in order to promote growth in the community, so we would need established and proven TO's in order to run said tournaments.

Another aspect that should be looked at is activity. I believe that the MBR has suffered from inactive members, thus projects are done by a small percentage of members and remain incomplete or don't fully represent the whole community. The members of the MBR need to be active and driven to finish what they start and take part in the activities that they chose to take on when they were accepted as members.

Basically, the new members need to be a good mix of members who understand the game from several perspectives at a high level of play and members who are established and proven tournament organizers and project managers. Both need to be active within the MBR in order to complete the projects that they wish to take on.

 

[JPOBS]

Community Contribution should be the only thing considered for MBR membership.

I don't see what someone's skill level has to do with acceptance to the MBR. I guess it has more to do with tradition than anything else. MBR has historically been comprised of the upper echelon of players....just because. But its like in any other sport, many of the best coaches/referees/mentors aren't actually skilled at the game/sport lol.
An example is Mogwai. when was the last time he had an impact in Tournament brackets? never? Yet he's one of the best contributors and very knowledgable.
Many top players wouldn't make good contributions to the MBR simply because they are inactive on the boards (busy or just don't care). But there are obviously people like PP who provide the best of both worlds.

As long as someone actively and accurately communicates and contributes, his skill as a player shouldn't really matter, as long as what he's saying is valuable.

 

[Little England]

I'd back Cosmo and Juggleguy for leadership roles.

 

[KirbyKaze]

My MBR powers will crush you all.


edit: Kanada too good

 

[t3h Icy]

I think Wobbles is a good example that you can be really knowledgeable and discuss things so in-depthly and with such clarity, but may not necessarily be able to perform them himself. He's seemingly overcome his technical consistencies, but before he was still as knowledgeable and intelligent, just that he couldn't do it himself (to top, top levels I mean).

I think one of the best examples right now would be DJ Nintendo, who seems (from what I've read on boards and stuff) to know a ton about game theory, mindgames, etc, but can't seem to break out as a top player. Melee runs a lot on technical skill and consistency, so someone that can contribute a lot of knowledge may not necessarily be bracket shakers.

 

[Teczer0]

imo the 'skill' part of the thing is just help us see how much you conceptually understand about the game. Which is obviously incredibly helpful in things like rulesets and stuff.

But you do make a good point, there are people that do know the game but may not necessarily perform the best. I suppose I wanna say that its somewhat of a filter but I concede that you bring up good points and contributions should at least be the larger factor.

 

[Dark Hart]

I'm mostly referring to contributions that are not directly gameplay-related. Examples: tournament organization, video recording/uploading, taking on projects like a Smasher database or character rankings, leadership roles on Smashboards like directing the "4 stocked" thread or the "list of livestreams" thread. I think these are far more important to the overall health of the Melee community than high-level character development or gameplay advice. I would argue that the competitive scene grows more from an expansion of community rather than an elevation of metagame. But I'm interested in others' opinions, so that's what I'm asking for.

I agree to a certain extent, but being a good forum leader is different than being a good candidate for the MBR imo

then again I'm not Cactus

 

[JPOBS]

I agree to a certain extent, but being a good forum leader is different than being a good candidate for the MBR imo

why? just curious.

 

[Dark Hart]

because you kinda need to have a vast knowledge and understanding of the game

and imo that doesn't necessarily coincide with contributing to the overall scene in ways JuggleGuy seems to be talking about

I'm mean t3h Icy for Mod, but MBR iunno

 

[Pink Reaper]

Every post Icy makes that's not in the MBR is gigantic levels of spam, why would he ever be made into a mod?

 

[Redact]

This is why I began to do best of 101 sets with lower skilled players, if they see the same situation happening in the video x100 times then I'm definitely positive they will find ways to not do it anymore. For example, Falco Side B above the ledge.. I downtilt into Fair for a KO. When I chat with that person later after he watched the whole set, he told me what his mistakes was, isn't that awesome? He's consciously telling me what his mistakes were without me telling him, I just repeated the same situation a lot of times during the MM.

I personally think this is a good way to force people not to do the same mistake because this is what people have done to me lol and it worked well for me. You don't really need to say anything, you can just repeat the same situation in game x100 times. If they don't learn after all that then.. I guess scrubs will be scrubs. lol.

That’s one thing that some players don’t realize, like almost everyone plays and does what actions they think are the best at the time. Sure beating their actions over and over will prompt them to try other things, but they may not know what they need to do to actually overcome the problem.

eg: a falcon keeps trying to edge guard someone with utilt and simply thinks "well he sweet spotted, therefore I couldn't stop him" and doesn’t realize they could have grabbed the edge -> punish, or gone off the stage to keep them away. Sometimes players need to be shown how to overcome an issue, rather than being stomped repeatedly.

I personally prefer to get stomped as I usually find a way around problems and it helps me think of new stuff, but some players need to get told what options they have to overcome problems in their play style.

Whilst some higher players probably think “well those options are damn obvious, who wouldn’t think of that?”. You have to realize not everyone thinks the same as yourself or knows as much as yourself, and that’s the whole point of coaching. To offer your own ideas on how to do better, an outside view.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

While i think cosmo would be good for the MW slot, i have to question his eligibility. He has gone to 1 tournament this year, and i believe his last tournament before that was in oct or nov. I dont think he will be considered active in the next ChiPR. I think the best active member from the midwest with leadership qualities would be juggleguy, tbh. Rat would be an excellent addition to the MBR in general, but I haven't seen his leadership in action. I always step up to fill the voids in the chicago leadership, but really because nobody else steps up to the plate. TBH I really don't know much about Matt. I've played with him a bit but he is a man of few words and less posts. To me he seems like someone in the group of kels and tink, good players but not very vocal in the whole of the community.

But what does the leader position entail? Is it just to choose who from our region is accepted, or are those our only players accepted in the MBR?

 

[Zankoku]

I think a player acceptable for the MBR with good ties to his community and experience throughout the region would be the best candidate for a regional leader in the MBR.

 

[Cactuar]

Lolol. You guys are funny.

*ignores all commentary in this thread and continues setting up the new MBR as planned*

 

[Divinokage]

That’s one thing that some players don’t realize, like almost everyone plays and does what actions they think are the best at the time. Sure beating their actions over and over will prompt them to try other things, but they may not know what they need to do to actually overcome the problem.

eg: a falcon keeps trying to edge guard someone with utilt and simply thinks "well he sweet spotted, therefore I couldn't stop him" and doesn’t realize they could have grabbed the edge -> punish, or gone off the stage to keep them away. Sometimes players need to be shown how to overcome an issue, rather than being stomped repeatedly.

I personally prefer to get stomped as I usually find a way around problems and it helps me think of new stuff, but some players need to get told what options they have to overcome problems in their play style.

Whilst some higher players probably think “well those options are damn obvious, who wouldn’t think of that?”. You have to realize not everyone thinks the same as yourself or knows as much as yourself, and that’s the whole point of coaching. To offer your own ideas on how to do better, an outside view.

Well I obviously talk to them, I don't think I can go on 50 matches without saying one word about anything lol. But ya I can only through with that I know, how can I teach someone things I don't understand myself, ya know? =P