Matchup Thread: WHAT TIME IS IT?

[itsthebigfoot]

updating marth to 6-4 dk, rob stays the same, falco is a 45-55 falco, and gdubs will remain the same for now, with an asterisk because the debate has gotten ********.

We will move on to kirby now

it's 50-50, i'll have a big post up soon

 

[i1337]

i think its 55-45 kirby...lol...

 

[magikguy]

only things that bother me from kirby is his chain grab , dair that destroys dk recovery and his deadly fresh f-smash thing is broken .

 

[Khaoz]

blah I hate this match up for Kirby. DK really takes advantage of Kirby's range weakness. But then again, DK isn't too hard to combo with aerials due to his size.

I'd probably put it pretty close to even.

 

[Ragnar0k]

gonzo combo sucks chode.

 

[SmileyStation]

If you have an neutral b charged, and you find the opportunity to block kirby's f-smash, that time would be the chance to use it. Also dont spot dodge it. Just block it. Chances are it may not connect after a spot dodge. Theres my contribution

 

[DFat2]

I'd say 45 55 in favor of DK.

The advantages are minuscule, but there. DK has more range and flies easier. A good DK shouldn't let a Kirby get close enough to F smash him, at least not without exchanging some damage first.

If DK gets the KO before Kirby, Kirby is at a big disadvantage because he would need to approach DK eventually and that is when DK's range keeps Kirby away.

 

[Veggi]

Avoid Kirby's grab like the plague, he does a bunch of damage with the chaingrab and Gonzo combo, plus he can fthrow>uair>takin yo powas. His dair to footstool and just normal dair eats your recovery for breakfast, he also has those bair walls and reliable kill moves against DK. Kirby is also a bain to edgeguard because of his fair and if you try to get him while he recoveries high he can just stone to the edge and he can use it to attack you while you recover. Even though his projectile isn't good, he still has it as a reason to make DK approach. I typically avoid this match-up as DK.

gonzo combo sucks chode.

QFT

 

[Asdioh]

I used to think Kirby had the advantage, but I've seen how quickly good DKs rack up damage, and how his MASSIVELY HUGE LIMBS can KO you from across the stage (face it, one of DK's amazing 3 smashes IS going to hit you sometime, and your % doesn't need to be that high to die) and I realize that DK might have the advantage. Even with Bair: his is noticably better than Kirby's, and Bair is one of the best things Kirby has going for him. The good thing is like you said: Kirby's grab game is awesome vs DK, and he can gimp pretty well.

Kirby with Giant Punch is also pretty freaing awesome. I'm going to put this at either 55-45 or 60-40 DK's favor.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

One thing i started doing (particularly against kirby, falco, IC's, wario, and dedede) spam the crap out of downb, they can't grab you while you do it. stop once they go aerial, rar a bair, or just shield - punish. but for those early percents, downb should get a lot of use. After that, poke normally, upb to punish when he's at low %, ko punish at higher percents. it's 50-50 from my experience, but dk might take the edge.

 

[TechnoMonster]

Kirby is an absolute nightmare for DK, IMO. In no way shape or form does DK have any natural advantage on Kirby.

First of all, any time Kirby gets a grab you are probably going to take 30% because DK has no good juggle escapes. At low%, it's up to 50 or so depending on followups and can end in an F-smash if you DI wrong, and if you DI right, you get u-aired/f-aired a few times and maybe F-smashed anyway when you try to land.

Second of all, if you try to B-air us at all we'll just stay grounded. Rolling in to up-tilt owns your b-air anyway.

Third of all, our D-air crossup approach is holy delicious on DK.

Fourth of all if you go off the stage it's another 30% or if you go low you die, because D-air.

And fifth and finally, all of your stupid fat hitboxes hang out for us to space all day with backairs. Don't get delusional about your range. Also shieldpokes but I don't feel like taking it to 6.

70-30 Kirby.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

Kirby is an absolute nightmare for DK, IMO. In no way shape or form does DK have any natural advantage on Kirby.

First of all, any time Kirby gets a grab you are probably going to take 30% because DK has no good juggle escapes. At low%, it's up to 50 or so depending on followups and can end in an F-smash if you DI wrong, and if you DI right, you get u-aired/f-aired a few times and maybe F-smashed anyway when you try to land.

Second of all, if you try to B-air us at all we'll just stay grounded. Rolling in to up-tilt owns your b-air anyway.

Third of all, our D-air crossup approach is holy delicious on DK.

Fourth of all if you go off the stage it's another 30% or if you go low you die, because D-air.

And fifth and finally, all of your stupid fat hitboxes hang out for us to space all day with backairs. Don't get delusional about your range. Also shieldpokes but I don't feel like taking it to 6.

70-30 Kirby.

1. it's 35% if you grab at 0, one throw into a follow up for 20 otherwise. the dk you're playing is doinitwrong

2.worst. idea. ever. our bair is an anti air, and an approach, meaning we'd have to be dumb enough not to force you to approach, or you'd already be in the air. by the way, please roll behind my bair in a tournament match, it will be very fun, and will definitely not result in you being headbutted - dk smash for such a bad plan

3. not really, our utilt/usmash beats your dair coming in high, and you shouldn't be able to run up and dair from the front because we can easily knock you away.

4. really now? thats weird, because our upb invincibility frames still beat out your attacks. given, you can gimp us if we slip up, but it is nowhere near guaranteed against a competent opponent

5. the dk you're playing is half ********, there is only one move where the extended hitbox comes back to hurt us, and that's dsmash, which we use for punishment only. If you're hitting his extended hitbox, he isn't even aiming the tilt. by the way, if you're spacing bair, we can just rar bair you, since our bear > your bear.

also, we kill you 50% lower than you kill us at minimum, and gimp your recovery since it doesn't auto-sweetspot. (we do really well vs multijump recoveries, and can gimp from the stage with dsmash stage spikes if your recovery doesn't snap on)

to the kirby mains with decent matchup experience, 50-50 or slight dk advantage? you've said dk edge but i'd like a few more points to put up on the front page

 

[TechnoMonster]

1. it's 35% if you grab at 0, one throw into a follow up for 20 otherwise. the dk you're playing is doinitwrong

False. With perfect play and good reactions at any percent good enough that we can run under you, Kirby can always regrab DK after throwing him, unless you DI off the stage (Please do). Also other stuff.

2.worst. idea. ever. our bair is an anti air, and an approach, meaning we'd have to be dumb enough not to force you to approach, or you'd already be in the air. by the way, please roll behind my bair in a tournament match, it will be very fun, and will definitely not result in you being headbutted - dk smash for such a bad plan

Your headbutt does not come out fast enough to do this.

3. not really, our utilt/usmash beats your dair coming in high, and you shouldn't be able to run up and dair from the front because we can easily knock you away.

Or we could do it when you're busy doing something else and not get hit.

4. really now? thats weird, because our upb invincibility frames still beat out your attacks. given, you can gimp us if we slip up, but it is nowhere near guaranteed against a competent opponent

Well if that's how you feel about it I'll just d-air you anyway, and then do something interesting next time. I really don't care about 6% or whatever if I have a chance to dunk you at a stupidly low percent.

5. the dk you're playing is half ********, there is only one move where the extended hitbox comes back to hurt us, and that's dsmash, if you're hitting his extended hitbox, he isn't even aiming the tilt. by the way, if you're spacing bair, we can just rar bair you, since our bear > your bear

Why would we miss with our B-air? Its safe. I'm spacing my jumps, and b-airing you when you b-air me. If you're going to hit me I'll just airdodge.

also, we kill you 50% lower than you kill us at minimum, and gimp your recovery since it doesn't auto-sweetspot. (we do really well vs multijump recoveries, and can gimp from the stage with dsmash stage spikes if your recovery doesn't snap on)

Our jumps have a very good sweetspot and we have a bunch of them :o

 

[crifer]

actually downB is a good idea against grabbing, actually the best,
but the problem is that a falco, kirby or ic, usually can just short hop aerial u, or even camp with a projectile, even so downb takes a lot of time to end... a good player will punish u when u use it too much... mixing it up with upb could work...

 

[powuh_of_PIE]

gotta give kirby the nod on this one, though definitely not 70-30, part of being high tier is that you don't have any matchups past 65-35
DK does have ways to work around Kirby's aerial prowess, but they're tough and require the DK user to be more skilled than the Kirby user. Also Kirby gimps like a mofo and I'm pretty sure Dair coming in from the top will beat Spinning Kong, though due to DK's aerial speed during that move it'll be tough timing it. Still, Kirby controls this matchup, but with a proper counterpick stage (Luigi's Mansion works well against aerial opponents, I find) DK can even it up. 60-40 Kirby

 

[Luigi player]

I don't like Kirby as an enemy. The worst thing is that he can dair your upB which you can't recover from =/

Then he has his grab which is annoying at 0 %. It's not that bad though. Sometimes I could also just DI to Kirby and footstool him before he could follow up with anything.


DKs range is too good for Kirby.

I'd say 60:40 or at least 55:45 for DK.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

@ dk's above me

kirby plays best when he's neither on the defensive nor approaching, just floating in some annoying part that you can't get to, this can piss off certain characters a lot... but dk doesn't really have that spot, meaning they gotta commit to something, which isn't good for them.

you gotta get some matchup experience before you notice it, which is hard because kirby's a bit obscure, but dk is not at a disadvantage


@ techno monster, you just did two things to tell me you were an idiot.
1. you went with point by point response format, which is the #1 warning sign that the conversation is ******** and the poster is not much better
2. you mentioned that character x played perfectly should always be able to do y, which is a morons argument, because character w ( in this case dk) played perfectly would never be in situation y to begin with. if both characters were played perfectly, nobody would get hit

i'm going to largely ignore your posts because they're pretty off and it's just going to start so retardary like the a2 posts.

just know that you are wrong

 

[TheNix]

I'm not going to touch on the other points, but I'd like to reply to one.

Your headbutt does not come out fast enough to do this.

If you are rolling around our bair, you will be directly below us. Prime target for GFSC headbutt. I'm sure you wont debate that our footstool isn't fast enough, right?

Anyway, I've only started playing against a good Kirby recently, so I don't know how to contribute. It feels close to even, though.

 

[Fabian the Fastman]

I'd say 60:40 or at least 55:45 for DK.

Bull****...

 

[Luigi player]

Bull****...

No, DKs range and power are too good for Kirby. =P

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Stop being so cocky Kirby guys you aren't even notable players or contributors at SWF so don't speak big words. I'd rather hear the opinion of a Kirby player with a sane mind not some random fanboys who just spread around how aweeeeeeee~some their character is. Nobody cares about your bias...a match-up discussion is about accuracy not to "defend your character".

And lol @calling this 7/3 or 65/35 in Kirbys favour. You're crazy mofos, there are almost no match-up's for high and top tier characters who are higher than 4/6 in either characters favour (unless it's D3). It's propably 5/5 but can vary ~ +/- 5 points depending on the stage. As DK you should ban Lylat cruise and CP Halberd / anything with low ceiling

@Luigi Player

Don't underrate Kirbys KO power. A fresh fsmash is lethal and very hard to DI. Not to mention crap like the Gonzo combo that deals ~50% from the very start

 

[Luigi player]

@Luigi Player

Don't underrate Kirbys KO power. A fresh fsmash is lethal and very hard to DI. Not to mention crap like the Gonzo combo that deals ~50% from the very start

I know that Kirby is overpowered (DK is stronger though). But as DK I always had no problem to beat any Kirby and 2 stocked the best one I know. (Note: as Diddy I had problems against that Kirby)

DK is also faster in the air than Kirby. He moves faster and has much more range. I know Kirby can be a pest, but I still think DK has an advantage over him and that it should be 55-45 at least for DK.


What is the Gonzo Combo? The grab -> uair -> utilt? That only works if you don't DI. And even if Kirby get's in a grab DKs range can make up for it.

I CPd Brinstar against a Kirby and I think it was nice (2 stock again), it still might not be the best stage against him though, idk.

 

[Ripple]

I have yet to play any good kirby players so I can't add much but what I do know is that most kirby's develop a kind of Falco syndrome where the only thing they will do at the beginning of a match is try a get a grab to do that one combo, they almost never do another move. they become very predictible and by the time they do grab us they have already taken ~40-50%

 

[TheNix]

I have yet to play any good kirby players so I can't add much but what I do know is that most kirby's develop a kind of Falco syndrome where the only thing they will do at the beginning of a match is try a get a grab to do that one combo, they almost never do another move. they become very predictible and by the time they do grab us they have already taken ~40-50%

Heh... "Falco syndrome". I like it.

This sounds more like "bad Kirby players" than "most Kirby players". We have to assume in these matchup discussions that both players are very good, and I can't see a very good Kirby player just run around grabbing until they're at 50%.

 

[Donkey Bong]

False. With perfect play and good reactions at any percent good enough that we can run under you, Kirby can always regrab DK after throwing him, unless you DI off the stage (Please do). Also other stuff.


Your headbutt does not come out fast enough to do this.


Or we could do it when you're busy doing something else and not get hit.


Well if that's how you feel about it I'll just d-air you anyway, and then do something interesting next time. I really don't care about 6% or whatever if I have a chance to dunk you at a stupidly low percent.


Why would we miss with our B-air? Its safe. I'm spacing my jumps, and b-airing you when you b-air me. If you're going to hit me I'll just airdodge.



Our jumps have a very good sweetspot and we have a bunch of them :o

all your argument sounded like a 5 year old trying to get a point across
"but then what if Kirby pulls out a big rocket launcher! DK's dead then!"

 

[MK26]

This thread is in need of some sense. I hope I can provide.

So, we have DK, the original heavyweight, and Kirby, the original lightweight (shaddap, Jigglypuff was unlockable). They're pretty much polar opposites.
DK needs like 3 hits to get his opponents into kill range. Kirby is death by little stubby limbs poking you a million times.
DK is an anti-aerialist. Kirby loves juggling his opponent.
DK dislikes offstage. Kirby can stall forever offstage.
DK can live forever onstage. Kirby is a balloon.

So you'd think...shouldn't it seem obvoius that one has the advantage over the other? There must be something that one of them can exploit. The problem is that there is. Both characters have so much on each other that its almost impossible to agree on a matchup number.

For instance:
Kirby has a massive F-smash and hammer. DK is a killing machine.
Kirby has throw combos that can easily bring you up to 40-50%, as well as crazy aerial control and juggles. . DK only needs to get you to around 80 (?) until Kirby is in kill range...and he has more than enough killers.
Kirby has crazy D-air gimps. So does DK.
DK's air game is B-air. Kirby has so much in the air it isn't funny.

However, I have to give this one to DK. He has that annoying Giant Punch with Super Armour...oh wait.

I can't put a number on this one. There are so many variables and intangibles. This post was basically pointless.

 

[Jmex]

I think its 55:45 for DK. Ive played Twilight Kirby and SK92's brother, both amazing kirby players. I have killed kirby at 0 % on rainbow cruise before, by spiking them through a platform. Idk, how that worked but im assuming he was trying to start a combo by coming in from below. Anyway, if DK if offstage kirby can down air and thats death for DK, spaced correctly of course. Aside from that, even with the grab combos that kirby can dish out, DK is too strong, his tilts are too good, and he spaces so much better than Kirby. Kirby needs to get in to win, DK can keep him away.

 

[Asdioh]

Stop being so cocky Kirby guys you aren't even notable players or contributors at SWF so don't speak big words. I'd rather hear the opinion of a Kirby player with a sane mind not some random fanboys who just spread around how aweeeeeeee~some their character is. Nobody cares about your bias...a match-up discussion is about accuracy not to "defend your character".

And lol @calling this 7/3 or 65/35 in Kirbys favour. You're crazy mofos, there are almost no match-up's for high and top tier characters who are higher than 4/6 in either characters favour (unless it's D3). It's propably 5/5 but can vary ~ +/- 5 points depending on the stage. As DK you should ban Lylat cruise and CP Halberd / anything with low ceiling

@Luigi Player

Don't underrate Kirbys KO power. A fresh fsmash is lethal and very hard to DI. Not to mention crap like the Gonzo combo that deals ~50% from the very start

It's true, if this IS in Kirby's favor at all, it would be 55:45 at best.

I have played a few good Donkey Kong players, the most notable of which is Ook (dunno if he's on smashboards, but he's on Allisbrawl and he's the best DK I know of) we go pretty even in our games, but he definitely wins the majority of them.

Kirby's fsmash is amazing, if you don't know that by now, you should. It will kill you very early when fresh. The downside is that it is very easy to punish if you block it.

Good stages I can think of for Kirby against DK are Rainbow Cruise and Jungle Japes. I guess Lylat works too, I just hate that stage. Kirby might even pick Frigate against you.

I'm pretty sure Brinstar is a good DK stage (it's Ook's counterpick) but ever since I first played him, I started trying it out for myself, and I found out that it's also a great Kirby stage. I actually made a video about all the crap Kirby can do there, it's fun. It's by no means a bad CP for DK, just be aware that some Kirbys (me in particular) love that stage XD

I'm not positive, but I think Kirby's 0% throw combo should be escapable with good DI. fthrow->uair isn't escapable...and the following grab probably isn't either. If he does another fthrow->uair, then you MIGHT be able to escape the uair, but I'm not sure. If he does downthrow->utilt instead of fthrow for the second throw, you can probably escape the utilt by jumping+airdodging.

This thread is in need of some sense. I hope I can provide.

So, we have DK, the original heavyweight, and Kirby, the original lightweight (shaddap, Jigglypuff was unlockable). They're pretty much polar opposites.
DK needs like 3 hits to get his opponents into kill range. Kirby is death by little stubby limbs poking you a million times.
DK is an anti-aerialist. Kirby loves juggling his opponent.
DK dislikes offstage. Kirby can stall forever offstage.
DK can live forever onstage. Kirby is a balloon.

So you'd think...shouldn't it seem obvoius that one has the advantage over the other? There must be something that one of them can exploit. The problem is that there is. Both characters have so much on each other that its almost impossible to agree on a matchup number.

For instance:
Kirby has a massive F-smash and hammer. DK is a killing machine.
Kirby has throw combos that can easily bring you up to 40-50%, as well as crazy aerial control and juggles. . DK only needs to get you to around 80 (?) until Kirby is in kill range...and he has more than enough killers.
Kirby has crazy D-air gimps. So does DK.
DK's air game is B-air. Kirby has so much in the air it isn't funny.

However, I have to give this one to DK. He has that annoying Giant Punch with Super Armour...oh wait.

I can't put a number on this one. There are so many variables and intangibles. This post was basically pointless.

Actually that's a pretty good post.


Like I said in my previous post, I think it's 55 or 60 DK's favor. And I forgot to mention that DK's down B reaches across THE WHOLE STAGE, and his Up B is an incredible punisher.

:'[

 

[SamuraiPanda]

I have played a few good Donkey Kong players, the most notable of which is Ook (dunno if he's on smashboards, but he's on Allisbrawl and he's the best DK I know of) we go pretty even in our games, but he definitely wins the majority of them.

I'm glad my DK made an impression.

:/

 

[mikeHAZE]

get ***** samurai panda.

 

[gantrain05]

just a note to what the guy said earlier about counterpicking japes against DK? i don't really advise that, as a peach main thats my usual CP for annoying matchups and i will almost always win there, but one day, at a tournament in a galaxy far far away i was playing a DK, and usually i will win this matchup w/out too many difficulties with my peach, i was up 1-0 in the set DK picks japes and im like, "hell yeah, my best stage" so of course i pick my peach again.....never again will i play DK on jungle japes, its hell, his down B covers the ENTIRE middle platform, 3 spikes for DK to put you in that water, a good platform in the middle to hide under to cancel out airial approaches, and he freakin lives FOREVER, a good DK can utilize that stage extremely well and i don't think it will help kirby in this matchup any more than it helps my peach =/

 

[The Pope]

Why didn't you guys get to this before I went to Maryland? I was getting my *** handed to by Kirby's left and right. I didn't know everyone and their mothers used Kirby in MD/VA.

 

[TechnoMonster]

@ dk's above me
@ techno monster, you just did two things to tell me you were an idiot.
1. you went with point by point response format, which is the #1 warning sign that the conversation is ******** and the poster is not much better
2. you mentioned that character x played perfectly should always be able to do y, which is a morons argument, because character w ( in this case dk) played perfectly would never be in situation y to begin with. if both characters were played perfectly, nobody would get hit

i'm going to largely ignore your posts because they're pretty off and it's just going to start so retardary like the a2 posts.

just know that you are wrong

1. False.
2. False. Also, I pulled maybe five or six grabs in a row on Bacon's DeDeDe today in a tournament, by backthrowing him, running under him, and grabbing him again. DeDeDe has multiple jumps and inhale to get out, DK does not. Played perfectly, against DK, you have to DI off of the stage or onto a platform or its an infinite, and its certainly a not unreasonable proposition to get 3-4 of these in a row consistently, with grab hits totaling about 40% damage and fully resetting all of my kill moves. If you land on a platform, U-smash can slide you off on most stages for followup as well, so this position is a notable advantage for Kirby. Exploiting DK's weaknesses is a huge part of this matchup for Kirby.

To all of the players that are saying that DK kills Kirby super early, Kirby just needs to keep away from edges, not do stupid stuff, and avoid getting knocked off to avoid the major hits.

Also, I'm a good player, known and respected in my state, have traveled out of state on several occasions and have played with a number of top players in Melee and Brawl.

all your argument sounded like a 5 year old trying to get a point across
"but then what if Kirby pulls out a big rocket launcher! DK's dead then!"

If DK pulled out a rocket launcher Kirby could avoid the rocket. Please don't insult me, and your argument isn't relevant. Everything I've talk about I practice and execute.

For instance, DK's down-tilt and f-tilt can be poked by Kirby's falling aerials and down-tilt when the hitbox is fully extended, and its practical to shield them and down-tilt or jump out of shield and f-air/b-air quickly after DK uses his tilts. Establish that and the game changes and Kirby can take advantage and against many DK players, call a b-air and roll in and uptilt for free percent, and go for juggles and grabs from there.

DK is not un****wittable in spacing games and it is possible to take away DK's ability to use his quick attacks efficaciously (he only has 3). DK cannot do this against Kirby, so he needs to play ranges, and Kirby can play here as well, though DK does outrange him. DK also has a hard time killing anything when he plays ranges because his downsmash is his only KO move that's really ever free against Kirby, and that is hard to pull off at range.

Its also easy to play defensive against DK, because if DK gives up a grab we can get a lot of free percent, and our backroll is virtually unchasable by a DK that's forced to space.

Put up whatever number you like, I'm just saying this is how I play against DK and I wouldn't expect to lose against CBK if I played him.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

2. False. Also, I pulled maybe five or six grabs in a row on Bacon's DeDeDe today in a tournament, by backthrowing him, running under him, and grabbing him again. DeDeDe has multiple jumps and inhale to get out, DK does not. Played perfectly, against DK, you have to DI off of the stage or onto a platform or its an infinite, and its certainly a not unreasonable proposition to get 3-4 of these in a row consistently, with grab hits totaling about 40% damage and fully resetting all of my kill moves. If you land on a platform, U-smash can slide you off on most stages for followup as well, so this position is a notable advantage for Kirby. Exploiting DK's weaknesses is a huge part of this matchup for Kirby.

dedede does not have the same weight physics as dk, argue for donkey kong, not dedede.

also, you said you wouldn't lose to cbk if you played him, have you ever played him? or any notable dks?

 

[Four Leaf]

Why didn't you guys get to this before I went to Maryland? I was getting my *** handed to by Kirby's left and right. I didn't know everyone and their mothers used Kirby in MD/VA.

Chu and Hat were the only good one's that I saw. Were there more? Anyhow the matchup doesn't seem **** for either person. If there is an advantage, it's small

 

[Asdioh]

I'm glad my DK made an impression.

:/

get ***** samurai panda.

This.

Seriously though, I didn't think of you because you don't main DK, as far as I know, you main Snake. Ook is Teh DK Man.

However, if I were to mention other DKs besides his, the only ones I can think of are yours and Master Ravens. All really good Kirby violators @_@

gantrain05: I see what you mean. It might not be a good idea for Kirby to pick Jungle Japes against DK, but then again, if DK picks it, it's not necessarily a bad stage. After all, dunno if you guys knew this, but if Kirby Inhales and "Kirbycides" on Jungle Japes between the left platform and the middle, you will both fall into the water, but your opponent will pop out far to your left, and be swept away to his death, unable to recover.

Kirby, however, has enough time to get back to the stage :]

The other reasons this is good for Kirby is because Kirby specializes in killing off to the sides with Fsmash and aerial hammer, which is good on this stage, and the high ceiling means he'll live longer against DK's down and up smashes.

 

[wasalater]

i am by no means a notable player but i think i am prity good. the only thing i bring to the discussion is that my main is kirby and my second main is dk. but all i am going to say is parroted from before.

dk has range and power but kirby has his grab combos and i have killed people rely early with fsmash.

and dk can be gimped by kirby. when i play dk thats how i go out most often.

a number is rely hard but i will give the advantage to dk but it all rely just depends 55-45 if not 50-50

 

[Donkey Bong]

DK is not un****wittable in spacing games and it is possible to take away DK's ability to use his quick attacks efficaciously (he only has 3). DK cannot do this against Kirby, so he needs to play ranges, and Kirby can play here as well, though DK does outrange him. DK also has a hard time killing anything when he plays ranges because his downsmash is his only KO move that's really ever free against Kirby, and that is hard to pull off at range.

Its also easy to play defensive against DK, because if DK gives up a grab we can get a lot of free percent, and our backroll is virtually unchasable by a DK that's forced to space.

Put up whatever number you like, I'm just saying this is how I play against DK and I wouldn't expect to lose against CBK if I played him.

dude your arguments are really really bad.
you're saying that DK cant kill unless he gets close. somewhat true (DK's bair can kill if undiminished)
but then how do you think kirby gets his kills? with the super-awesome-cover-the-entire-stage-kills-you-in-2-hits final cutter?
his fsmash sure, but that doesnt have much more range than DK's dsmash
if both characters want to play defensively then neither one will win.

and you said DK's got 3 quick attacks. i assume you're referring to dtilt, ftilt and utilt
you forgot the upb, bair, uair (not quite an attack i'd use to approach, but still quick)
you also never really said how exactly kirby takes away these spacing tools from DK, so i find it really hard to take your argument seriously

oh and DKs! for getting back to the stage, fair is really useful at scaring kirbys away from trying to dair spike you. the hitbox is really big and it stays out relatively long, and if you use it at the same time as your second jump, it should end fast enough for you to recover safely

 

[gantrain05]

DK can get kill moves from just about anywhere on kirby, its not like he's gonna be keeping DK away with some spammy projectile

kill moves.
Dsmash
Usmash
Fsmash
Bair(Fresh)
Uair
Fair
Dair
Neutral B
Bthrow(fresh)

now i think there will be plenty of situations to be able to hit with ONE of these moves, killing will never be a problem with DK.

 

[GMo]

Question about Kirbs real quick (because no one in these parts really plays him). How does his neutral b stack up vs DK. Does he get SA frames if he charges it fully? Same damage? Knockback?