Matchup Thread: WHAT TIME IS IT?

[Ripple]

Then you get grabbed out of the air or hit with an attack like dash attack. SideB has enough startup lag to dodge it on reaction, or if its too low I can just grab you before it hits.

I lost to CBK, but this was at BIO and I was playing ROB back then, and SK92's DK is very good so don't be a h8r.

if you do a dash attack I am going to punch you in the face.

do you really not see that DK has solutions to get down?

 

[itsthebigfoot]

putting this on hold cause its chanukah

ll chaim

 

[Cyclopean]

don't let CBK get a hold of your candelabrum or its over

 

[itsthebigfoot]

I'm more worried about the dradel

 

[Mr.Victory07]

I'm more worried about the dradel

Those dradels are deadly

On a side note, next matchup should be Wolf :D
Happy holidays

 

[fromundaman]

So what's the verdict on the Kirby matchup?

 

[highandmightyjoe]

On a side note, next matchup should be Wolf :D
Happy holidays

I'm just throwing this out there, but I think for the people who live in a region where it is banned, it is worth discussing non-infinite DDD. I've heard it called everywhere from still being 7-3 his advantage, to being 6-4 DK advantage. It would be nice to nail it down, even if it doesn't matter for certain regions.

 

[Ripple]

I'm just throwing this out there, but I think for the people who live in a region where it is banned, it is worth discussing non-infinite DDD. I've heard it called everywhere from still being 7-3 his advantage, to being 6-4 DK advantage. It would be nice to nail it down, even if it doesn't matter for certain regions.

it is 6-4 his advantage but thats probably on neutrals with it being 55-45 on our cp stages

 

[Jmex]

Yea DDD is still a hard bastar* to fight against.

 

[Donkey Bong]

so what character is the next discussion?

i'd like to hear opinions on the DK v snake matchup
or vs pit, zelda or TL

 

[Mr.Victory07]

We already did Snake, Im still saying Wolf should be next...

And today i did the SDI out of tornado thing on the MK matchup, and it worked wonders lol; i pulled off like two nine-wind punches when he was vulnerable. But the middle plat on japed didnt let me do it well and he ended up running out the clock by sandbaging =\

 

[gantrain05]

i absolutly hate going to japes vs MK, at least the MK's i play, they camp the left and right platforms and never ever approach, its impossible to take a MK off of solid ground when you have to approach by air.

 

[itsthebigfoot]

?? doing it wrong i guess, if they camp a side platform, grab the ledge and shark uairs/upb. rob has problems camping you there, mk is not even close to rob camp status. that and get ahead by 1% and they can't camp

Starting the wolf matchup now, here's the basics of the matchup from my experience

Pros
- you outspace him
- you can gimp him
- you ko him pretty early
- you can combo him for easy % early on
- you live forever

Cons
- he camps
- shine
- he can combo you for % early on

I think DK has a noticeable advantage, the camp can be annoying, but well timed upb SA will go right through that. you have to watchout a bit for his spike, BUT his aerial control is crap, so you know where he's going to be, just don't be there and you're fine, he won't spike you unless you screw up big time

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Pros
- you outspace him

Not quite. Wolf fsmash can mess up your spacing if there's a certain frame window, where he can hit DK.

- you can gimp him

Not really. You can gimp stupid Wolfs with every character but a smart Wolf won't get gimped, certainly not by DK.

Besides Wolf can gimp DK just as good. One shine into your UpB and you might end up too low to make it back to the stage

- you ko him pretty early

And in which match-up is this not the case? Considering that Wolf is one of the heavier characters it actually takes longer to KO him than other characters.

- you can combo him for easy % early on

With what? Uair?

Cons
- he can combo you for % early on

Nope

I think DK has a noticeable advantage, the camp can be annoying, but well timed upb SA will go right through that. you have to watchout a bit for his spike, BUT his aerial control is crap, so you know where he's going to be, just don't be there and you're fine, he won't spike you unless you screw up big time

loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool @oversized stuff.

You don't even know the basics of Wolf

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Pros
- you outspace him
- you can gimp him
- you ko him pretty early
- you can combo him for easy % early on
- you live forever

Cons
- he camps
- shine
- he can combo you for % early on

I disagree with a LOT of this stuff. In my opinion its either even or slightly in wolfs favor.

 

[daisho]

Gheb 01,

Wolf outranges DK with one move, but the DK can probably predict wolf's fsmash and counter with a DK punch timing it with super armour or some other attack to take advantage after shield dodging, There is usually no way to take advantage of DK's tilts since they have very little lag.

Anyone can avoid being spiked by anyone else (except for a few characters but wtvr) if they are good enough. And think about your logic. A smart wolf won't get gimped yet somehow a smart dk will... Is DK's recovery that much worse than wolfs? Also i don't understand what you meant by certainly not by DK, DK has excellent spikes which all 3 can be used in different occasions.

DK has other ways to combo besides uair for instance dthrow to dtilt to dspecial to uair/bair or utilts to bairs or something.

I don't actually know much specifically about Wolf but in my experience playing against wolf I found that my character (DK) had the advantage.

(I hope this was an intelligent post, if not just please excuse my noobiness and ignore me).

 

[Ishiey]

Interesting. I'd say that this is even, if not slightly in wolf's favor. NOTE that I've never played a pro DK.

Spacing is important for wolf in this matchup, because DK's range is amazing. Shine works well on DK for breaking through attacks, and blaster also allows for some helpful camping/pressuring. Wolf can also do a number on DH with uair, either with FF uair combos (not too common) or juggling. Don't grab-release DK, because he cheats. Offstage, wolf can spike DK through his upB and also shine DK, maybe even blaster too. Use your SA frames well, they're going to be extra helpful in this matchup. DK shouldn't be outright gimping a good wolf, but his bair sure does get annoying.

That's all I can think of for now, but this matchup is most likely even, mainly because DK refuses to die.

 

[Ripple]

every time a wolf hits DK's shield with a f smash its a free d smash or even a GFSC to get the kill very early on.

wolf's bair is almost lagless and can be used like ours but only 1 in a short hop. but still hard to punish if spaced right. this goes for both of us.

shine is a pain in the *** because its invincible for 6(?) frames and can spike us if we don't have our second jump.but then again dair would do fine

if wolf is in a position that he can't use side b, he is basically dead.

DK can combo wolf with bairs early on. 3 in a row if you get them off stage with the first.
wolf has bair to f smash at low %

blaster is annoying


wolf won't kill DK WITHOUT spiking him until like 140%
DK kills wolf WITHOUT spiking him around 95%

maybe 55-45

 

[itsthebigfoot]

Not quite. Wolf fsmash can mess up your spacing if there's a certain frame window, where he can hit DK.

our downb has more range than your fsmash, oh, and we can punish the crap out of fsmash,

Not really. You can gimp stupid Wolfs with every character but a smart Wolf won't get gimped, certainly not by DK.

upb ledge stall works very well against wolf

Besides Wolf can gimp DK just as good. One shine into your UpB and you might end up too low to make it back to the stage

i don't see how you'd land it low enough for it to do that. we'd have to mess up MAJORLY not to just upb again and grab the ledge, unless you were off the ledge, which means you'd be falling too.

And in which match-up is this not the case? Considering that Wolf is one of the heavier characters it actually takes longer to KO him than other characters.

does not make it any less of a point. I mean ddd's cg works on a whole lot of people, it's still a talking point.

With what? Uair?

You don't even know the basics of Wolf DK

try dtilt, utilt, bair, jab, dthrow and upb

loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool @oversized stuff.

You don't even know the basics of Wolf

his aerial control is crap. its why his movement in the air is all funky, he has control problems once he leaves the ground. AFAIK its the worst in the game. he has good air speed, but his control is crap

EDIT: my wolf experiencce is limited to the germ and randoms, but that seems like more than most judging from the posts

 

[Luigi player]

I think DK has an advantage against Wolf. Maybe it's only 55:45, but maybe even 60:40 (not sure though).

Wolf can be really annoying, but DK is too good =P
If Wolf gets offstage just once DK can get a free hit to get him offstage again until Wolf is dead.
Not sure if it works every time, but Wolfs sideB and upB have bad landing lag (and are really predicable), and if DK edgehogs him he gets a free (fast) hit (or just a grab).
I think DK can edgeguard Wolf pretty good, and Wolf shouldn't even try to edgeguard DK (other than with his blaster), since his recovery sucks so much.

Wolfs blaster is not annoying imo. Maybe if you want to recover, but I don't know how else. It is very easy to powershield it...

 

[Mr.Victory07]

Yess, thanks for picking me Bigfoot :D (although im not sure hwy i really wanted this matchup done)

I'd say slight advantage to DK, 55-45 at most. Wolf can do some really gay things(Shine, blaster), but DK can too(CSS works well on wolf, upb ledgestall). We(for the most part)outrange Wolf, and downb keeps his f-smash at bay. U-tilt combos Wolf really well, and DK overall juggles him better than vise-versa. Wolfs aerial approaches are all outranged by bair, and maybe angled ftilt(not sure here). But Wolfs aerials kill quite well, and his bair rivals ours in Speed/power/range.Where wolf really falls apart if offstage, where we can bair him forever(barring shine), spike and ledgestall which works particularly well on him. Blaster is really dumb though, and goes right through spinning kong and he can disrupt our recovery with shine(but that wont typically hurt us)

BTW, online this is 65-35 Wolf(as he's basically a different character there

 

[Turbo Ether]

I actually see that people are still actually horrible at debating matchups, actually.

 

[Lv.99]

Don't forget some of Wolf's advanced techs. Dash attack cancel into up-smash allows us to cover about 2/3 of battlefield very quickly and u-smash is a great kill move. Scarring can be used to get around DK if he is edge guarding or edge hogging. Pseudo-scarring has the same potential but this move can be done on most neutral stages is and has a higher chance of sweet spotting. Finally we have telestepping which allows us to appear right at the edge of the stage after dropping from the ledge. We can reflector out of this so it is a rather useful move.

 

[Donkey Bong]

wolf's shine will be one of his most useful and annoying tools in this match

BUT wolf's blaster is infinitely worse than falco's, so for DKs that play regularly against falcos the blaster will be much easier to get around

scarring makes punishing wolfs stalling on the ledge a lot harder, i dont even want to say the number of times i've dashed to the ledge to punish with a bair only to get scarred in the face.

like bigfoot says, wolf's aerial control is subpar, DK is much more confortable than wolf aerially

his ground game is about the same level as DK's so if wolf stays grounded its a much harder fight.

50-50 IMO

 

[Jmex]

BUT wolf's blaster is infinitely worse than falco's, so for DKs that play regularly against falcos the blaster will be much easier to get around

50-50 IMO

I strongly believe that his blaster is not worse than Falcos.

 

[Donkey Bong]

really? i find it much less annoying since the hitbox is smaller, it doesnt have the immense range of falcos and its harder for wolf to combo with it using the hitstun

thats just me though

 

[Jmex]

^ Im saying that Falcos is much better. Falcos goes long range, does quick damage because he can shoot multiple lazers by canceling them. Wolfs are slow, and personally not a threat. I usually just bait the Wolf by perfect shielding the shot making him attack and then i just grab and ****.

 

[Donkey Bong]

^^^

oh. double negatives FTL

 

[Mr.Victory07]

I strongly believe that his blaster is not worse than Falcos.

^ Im saying that Falcos is much better.

Contradicting???

 

[Ishiey]

Can someone please explain the 'wolf has bad aerial control' thing? The way I see it, wolf moves quickly in the air, and a wolf main would have PLENTY of practice with it, giving them the ability to control the air very well. Combined with lagless aerials on both sides, I just don't see what you guys are talking about...

 

[Jmex]

Lol, yea i saw that, i meant to say my second post. Guess i should save the drinking for later

 

[Donkey Bong]

Can someone please explain the 'wolf has bad aerial control' thing? The way I see it, wolf moves quickly in the air, and a wolf main would have PLENTY of practice with it, giving them the ability to control the air very well. Combined with lagless aerials on both sides, I just don't see what you guys are talking about...

when i say bad aerial control i mean he has horrible DI
compare his DI to wario's, its like night and day.

edit: jmex when did you change your character icon to pika's? have you fallen from our noble DK ranks to the rat? :'(

 

[Jmex]

Lol, no no, im going to second pikachu. But by second, i mean really only use in friendlies. I love the Kong, i even go DK against DDD's i dont care. But dont worry, i will never stop using the DONKEY!!! *ROAR*

 

[Donkey Bong]

well thats a relief. we need all the DK skills we can muster.

 

[Commander_Beef]

HAHA, yeah you better say that King Dedede is a bad matchup! Cg you to death! Muhmuhahahahahah

 

[crifer]

never denied it^^
Even though I´m a DK Main, I think wolf has a really good aerial control,
I think its pretty much even, bc both can combo quite good,
and wolf can yeah shine u to hell and back, fresh dsmash can kill us @ 110 %
maybe with upB braking 120%

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Whoever says Wolfs aerial control is "crap" doesn't know what he's talking about because it makes 0 sense.

I rate it 5/5

our downb has more range than your fsmash, oh, and we can punish the crap out of fsmash,

Our neutral B has more range than your downB, oh, and we punish the crap out of downB

C what I did???

upb ledge stall works very well against a bad wolf

Fixed for accuracy

i don't see how you'd land it low enough for it to do that. we'd have to mess up MAJORLY not to just upb again and grab the ledge, unless you were off the ledge, which means you'd be falling too.

No clue what your saying bro. I just wanted to say that DK is just as gimpable as Wolf (which is not at all).

try dtilt, utilt, bair, jab, dthrow and upb

I'm talking about "true" comboes.

his aerial control is crap. its why his movement in the air is all funky, he has control problems once he leaves the ground. AFAIK its the worst in the game. he has good air speed, but his control is crap

This is very wrong. Wolfs aerial control is really good. He is completey unpredictable and can move to whereever he wants (exageration) in little time.

EDIT: my wolf experiencce is limited to the germ and randoms, but that seems like more than most judging from the posts

The GERM still plays? I thought he quit Brawl?

 

[Luigi player]

Wolf has good air movement speed, BUT if he wants to turn directions he sucks.

Even Luigi can do that better than Wolf and that says something... Although from my testing DKs is just as bad if not worse lol.

But it does feel strange if you're in the air with Wolf... or maybe it's just me... I think it is because he falls so fast... I don't really know...

 

[Nokonoko]

No clue what your saying bro. I just wanted to say that DK is just as gimpable as Wolf (which is not at all).

… So neither of them can be gimped? Fantastic.

Rather than this tit-for-tat debate, why don’t you just go ahead and write a few paragraphs on the matchup, entirely from your own perspective as a Wolf main?

You say Bigfoot “[doesn’t] even know the basics of Wolf”. Prove that you know the basics of DK.

/spam

 

[~ Gheb ~]

If you don't play Wolf it does indeed feel strange but what you guys say about his air control is just wrong...

Also, I have no idea why you (Luigi Player) think that this match-up is so much in DKs favour. After all I doubt that you ever played another Wolf than me IRL and our matches are always rather close....and I'm not even a good player in the first place.

Happy new year btw