Match Up Discussion: Snake ~

[Ulevo]

SNAKE​

GO!

 

[Shaya]

Go a 'higher player slot' than Snake in nearly all situations if possible. (i.e. go player 4, try to be sneaky about it too).

Be relentless, don't fall for the "but it gives Marth an advantage", NO, IT DOES NOT. IT JUST REMOVES THE ENERMOUS ADVANTAGE SNAKE HAS.

 

[Kizzu-kun]

Reposting some words from the other thread~

I don't have too much reliable knowledge about this match-up, but I'll try to bring some words for here, okii?

/offtopic: There isn't a report to moderator system here?
I've sent a PM to SamuraiPanda to unstick M2K thread and stick the Match Up Discussion, but he probably didn't saw.

For snake, if you use the up b combo between 0-11%, you can almost guarantee a up tilt follow up.

Tested against level 9's on attack (and jump) and humans (so DI and air dodging included).

What happens is the snake will either air dodge or not do anything at all, but either way it sets up for an u-tilt.

You can follow this up with another u-tilt, SH u-air, or SH f-air (depending on how they DIed and if they jumped)... does ~50%.

The times when the opponent got out was when they SDI out of the dancing blade up combo or when they delayed their air dodge for the up tilt so only the back part of the up tilt hit and it didn't send them back up. It still did 25%.

Snake is a great juggle target like Junk just stated.

This is a match up where you will want to use that up throw to put him in a bad position. Juggle him, and if he comes down by air dodging onto the ground you can just grab him again.

Snakes will usually try to recover high over the stage and fastfall airdodge down to land. Don't punish him in the air, as it will only give him another upB and he will probably dodge your attacks anyways. Wait for him to land and punish accordingly.

Should he for some reason not recover high above the stage, a nair while he's still holding his Cypher will go through his super armor. As well, remember the grab trick at the ledge of any stage. If he's holding the cypher and you grab him without attacking or throwing, he will break free and slowing fall to his death, and there's nothing he can do about it

Unless he can use his down b recovery. I haven't faced many good Snakes, can someone confirm?

You should attack Snake while he is recovering high, if only to get damage on him.

As for gimping here is my opinion

Gimping

- High Recovery

Cypher: There isn't much you can do, if you can get out there fast enough you can hit him with a bair, fair, or uair. When he is coming down you can juggle him, just watch out for the C4. You then can **** him with uair, or if he is at a high enough percentage possible KO him with Dolphin Slash (or Uair).

C4: Snake will almost never use C4 on as high recovery as it would probably kill him.

- Low Recovery:

Cypher: You have many options here, it is extremely easy to spike Snake so if the situation allows it go for it. However if the situation does not allow it, fair is a great tool. So is nair, but you must hit him while he is ascending at a slower pace or his modified Super Armor will only allow you to get the first hit in. Bair works as well, it just takes more time to set up. Another interesting feature is that if you grab Snake out of his cypher and not do anything, he will be unable to use it until (or if) he hits the ground. If he is to far to grab, you can fsmash him out of it.

C4: Sometimes it is better to leave Snake alone if he does this, but if your skill level is high enough there are some thing you can do. You can go right next to him and allow the C4 to stick onto you, and then air dodge. Snake can reverse C4 to counter this though. You can go above him and try to spike him before the C4 goes off. Countering his C4 can be very effective. Also you can dolphin slash and sweet spot the edge to stage spike him.

Fair: Sometimes Snake will try to use this as they're recovering; just use fair, nair, uair, or counter to shut it down. It really doesn't cause much of a problem.

As for the Snake guide, I accidentally deleted part of it, but luckily it was stuff like CP's and Vids (the meat of the guide is still there). I asked if I should redo it, but not a whole lot of people said I should so I figured it was unnecessary.

I don't kno if he can down b recover after that tactic (which is a good one), but even if he can, at high damages that can kill him so that can be fine if you hav racked up enough damage before this grab, you should be fine, and you can just spike him rite bak down if he can down b recover.

Which tactic are you referring to, the cypher grab?

 

[Ulevo]

Thank you for quoting those Kizzu. I appreciate it.

Oh, just to inform you guys. If you ever catch a Snake carelessly camping near an edge and has 6% or lower, FThrow to Dair is an instant kill. He can't DI and the Dair will tip. If he tries to recover, just Edge Hog or spike him into the stage with Dolphin Slash.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

I don't know whether or not anyone finds this helpful, but I'll post the link here anyways.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=172752

Another tactic that works well against Snake when he is recovering low, is fair, double jump, nair.

 

[PCHU]

It's called 'counter'.
Learn to use it.

Seriously.
My cousin abuses Snake's broken ftilt, so I have to counter early because the punch is already in my face, though Snake's fist is 2 feet away.
Not too difficult, though.
Snake has stupid range, but you can get around it.
Fair a lot into almost everything.
Catch him offguard with a tipp'd Shield Breaker.
Counter as much as you can.
You see an attack, you counter.
You need as much damage as possible so you can knock that broken idiot into one less stock.

 

[∫unk]

Counter is good on people that are predictable... but most good snakes keep switching it up. He has a lot of options.

Why most Marth's (actually most chars) have trouble is because Snake has insanely powerful, damaging moves with quick start up that have incredible range. However, that range is in front of Snake. Most characters approach through the front with spacing, but snake's range is too great and comes out too fast and deals too much damage to be playing around with that.

To beat him you have to abuse his weak points which are behind him and underneath him.

 

[PCHU]

As I said, counter is your friend.
Hug it and abuse it, because it's all going to pay off.

Spotdodging works well.
Ever spotdodged Fox's smashes?
All of them?
Train yourself with a relatively quick smasher, and try it out.
You'll find Fox is so easy to dodge, and so is everyone else.
Ike only gives me problems.
His smash timing is very awkward, along with Bowser and Ganon.
When I'm near them, I can't attack because there's a chance that I won't make it before they do.

 

[Killress]

It's called 'counter'.
Learn to use it.

Seriously.
My cousin abuses Snake's broken ftilt, so I have to counter early because the punch is already in my face, though Snake's fist is 2 feet away.
Not too difficult, though.
Snake has stupid range, but you can get around it.
Fair a lot into almost everything.
Catch him offguard with a tipp'd Shield Breaker.
Counter as much as you can.
You see an attack, you counter.
You need as much damage as possible so you can knock that broken idiot into one less stock.

Snakes Filt doesn't punch...


But, I agree. Read and Counter. WoP. And play agressive, and you should be alright.

 

[PCHU]

Oh, wait.
Well then what is that broken punch?
Whatever it is, use counter.
DO A COUNTERROLL!
I hate Snake, so I don't use him.
His games rocked, though.
I built a mini-Metal Gear out of Legos.

 

[∫unk]

Oh, wait.
Well then what is that broken punch?
Whatever it is, use counter.
DO A COUNTERROLL!
I hate Snake, so I don't use him.
His games rocked, though.
I built a mini-Metal Gear out of Legos.

What I was trying to say in my previous post is, you're likely playing a noob snake.

And I didn't bother reading your first wall of text but now that I have I see you're completely wrong.

f-air a lot into almost everything is not a good tactic. The rest of the stuff you said was obvious and/or stupid.

You need to mature a little bit before you come speaking as if you actually know the matchup.

 

[Steel]

Not to mention that counter "approach" can get extremely predictable and a good Snake WILL punish you for it.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Although if you abuse counter, you will definitely be punished, I think it can be helpful in this match-up.

 

[takeurlife2]

Reposting some words from the other thread~

I don't have too much reliable knowledge about this match-up, but I'll try to bring some words for here, okii?

/offtopic: There isn't a report to moderator system here?
I've sent a PM to SamuraiPanda to unstick M2K thread and stick the Match Up Discussion, but he probably didn't saw.

while we are at it, he should unstick the emblem lord's moment thread... it's had its run.

 

[PCHU]

I didn't really mean it.
I use my counter ONLY when needed.
Everything else I spotdodge.
I know that Snake is formidable, but you guys act as if you're fighting God.
He's not that difficult.
Even Metaknight isn't that hard.

 

[Steel]

I didn't really mean it.
I use my counter ONLY when needed.
Everything else I spotdodge.
I know that Snake is formidable, but you guys act as if you're fighting God.
He's not that difficult.
Even Metaknight isn't that hard.

I get the feeling you are facing sub-par snakes and meta knights.

 

[PCHU]

Right you are.
I am going up against sub-par Snakes and Metas.
It sucks.
But I have seen pro Snake fights, (I know I am going to get flamed for this) and I think my Marth could handle it.
Snake isn't that beastly.
His boost smash isn't that great.
It's not like you get hit once you're dead.
I haven't seen pro Metaknights, though.
I I should look some up.
But still.
OLIMAR can be a deadly force if used right.
My friend is an excellent Olimar, but I still kill him.

This is useless.
You can't describe skill on the internet.
Plus, I have nothing to record with besides a camera that isn't even mine.
So, the day I go to a tournament is the day we will see.
Which, this probably won't happen since Jackson TN sucks.

 

[∫unk]

I have seen pro Snake fights, (I know I am going to get flamed for this) and I think my Marth could handle it.

No, no you couldn't. You say you main Sonic and like foxes. I think that along with everything else you've said speaks volumes on your Marth.

Snake isn't that beastly.

Says the guy who admittedly hasn't played a good snake.

His boost smash isn't that great.

This just shows how little you know.

It's not like you get hit once you're dead.

No, considering Snake's damage per attack it's about 8 or 9 hits until you're dead, compared to Marth's 15+.

OLIMAR can be a deadly force if used right. My friend is an excellent Olimar, but I still kill him.

Congratulations.

This is useless. You can't describe skill on the internet.

You can show how much knowledge you have... which so far seems to be very little. The reason Emblem Lord is highly respected around here isn't cause he's the best Marth, it's cause he knows more about him than anyone else.

So, the day I go to a tournament is the day we will see. Which, this probably won't happen since Jackson TN sucks.

I hear about TN tournaments... you may have to travel an hour or two to get there but that's way better than Cali so I'm not sure why you're using that as a john.

And if you've never played in a tournament you'll definitely get owned.

 

[grandmaster192]

ehh? I play a good Snake and fairing into him a lot is a stupid idea IMO. That tilt shuts that down completely. Unless you like taking 20+ damage all day, I would suggest doing something different, LOL.

I try to keep the snake above me or in the air, but those **** grenades can make this hard. I would also suggest staying grounded more than normal because of that tilt. Maybe try running into a shield then punishing, or if you get a grab, you can tech chase aggressively.

 

[PCHU]

To Mr. Junky. Er.. JITT.
HOW THE CRAP AM I GOING TO PLAY IN A TOURNAMENT IF ALL OF THEM ARE ONE HOUR AWAY, AND HOW AM I GOING TO TRAIN IF THE GOOD PLAYERS ARE IN TOURNAMENTS, AND IN SAID TOURNAMENT, I GET OWNED?
You're logic fails.

And thanks for pointing out how little knowledge I have.
I admit I don't know much, but I use what I do know to communicate, and it seems I can't get the point through your thick skull.
Sorry if I can't show my skill.
And there's a thing.
It's called moving out of the boost smash's way.
You act like everything is going to completely destroy Marth.
Marth is not Pichu.

And I KNOW I like foxes.
THEY FREAKIN rock.
But I don't use him that often.
I like MArth better, because he rocked on Melee, and crap it, I am GOING TO MAKE HIM ROCK ON BRAWL.

I main Fox.
And Marth.
And Sonic.
And Lucario.
And Ness, Lucas, Ike, Falco AND WOLF.
I don't have enough room to put it there.
Sorry if I want people to go to my site rather than know my mains.
If they fight me they're going to find out anyway.

Oh, and I don't mean ALL my approaches are fairs.
I don't know how I approach, I just do.
Sorry I didn't clear that up.
And besides, opponents approach me, and I don't know how I handle it, I just do.
Maybe I will post a fight on youtube.

 

[Kizzu-kun]

while we are at it, he should unstick the emblem lord's moment thread... it's had its run.

Yep... seems that a Moderator action would be hell good.
No pandas for me T.T''

---

Right you are.
I am going up against sub-par Snakes and Metas.
It sucks.
But I have seen pro Snake fights, (I know I am going to get flamed for this) and I think my Marth could handle it.
Snake isn't that beastly.
His boost smash isn't that great.
It's not like you get hit once you're dead.
I haven't seen pro Metaknights, though.
I I should look some up.
But still.
OLIMAR can be a deadly force if used right.
My friend is an excellent Olimar, but I still kill him.

This is useless.
You can't describe skill on the internet.
Plus, I have nothing to record with besides a camera that isn't even mine.
So, the day I go to a tournament is the day we will see.
Which, this probably won't happen since Jackson TN sucks.

Acually isn't a matter of skill, but your arguments aren't solid enough to make a statement of anything about this match-up based in what you're saying.
If you want to discuss and get you point proved, please, try to solidify your arguments.
And solidify doesn't means to fill up the sausage with words if you do understand what I'm saying.

Counter is only reliable if you can predict your opponent, Snake isn't a very predictable type of character for attacks (his defensive game is, but not too much), he doesn't escapes from your set ups with attacks, he usually try to dodge them. Counter is more reliable against Marths, Luigis and Sheiks, for an example.

You still can counter, its a good idea when use correctly, but this doesn't really change too much.
Counter is mainly based on predict skills but this is player based, not character.
Which means that this doesn't really counts to change anything from the character match-up discussion, since that kind of skill counts for both sides.
But still very nice to discuss. Thank you for bringing that up.


Now about the Up Throw set up for juggling, yep its a good idea for situational uses.
Mostly at a lower damage zone, you Up Throw Snake, do an SH Up Aerial and quickly gets in the ground. He have about two options: Air Dodging and Granade.
And both are risky for him.

Anyway, I would recommend the regrab follow up (working with mixing Forward and Down Throws; I don't know very well for the Back one) or even Dancing Blade. He needs to be inside your guessing game, so everything going to be a lot more easily. Up Tilt isn't very good to do too much because it lags a lot, I would prefer to keep this intact for unnexpected KOs at higher damage zones.

Forward and Down Throws seems to work better, but its very nice to mix up some tactics.



Another thing, Snake needs to Shield a lot, since his evasion options aren't really very good. This means that you can punish his shield with Shield Breaker a way more than other match-ups (stupid Metaknight). Also his is good target for juggling and comboing, and the Shield Breaker use would make he shield less than usually he does, so Marth setups becomes more applicable in that match.

His tilts have too much range in forward, like JunkInTheTrunk said.
You need to space him properly to avoid these.
And also they have a good delay, which means that if you Shield those, you can Shield-drop into most Marth arsenal, like the Dolphin Slash and Forward Smash.


For KOing Snake you have two damage ranges; one gimp-oriented and the other in really high damages. Edgeguarding would actually only work at the first half of Snake's stocks.
When he starts getting in a too high damage zone, basically he won't get hit due his vertical-oriented recovery.
Marth can edgeguard him with mostly things, specially Dair and Dolphin Slash.
You can abuse a little the fact that Snake's Cypher actually hits Marth if he Dolphin Slash Snake properly.
This acts like kinda a wall, but obviously abusing that, Snake will be sent upwards each time, so Marth's edgeguard won't work further.


Eh I still need to write more in future, I have not much experience against Snakes yet.

 

[VietGeek]

I can't really say much since I got knocked out of a tourney from both a MK then a Snake (lol), so I'll pester you with questions instead.

With Snake, I discard my passive style with a more offensive style, but how does one approach him? I'd say most start with grenades, cooking them and then throwing them in the middle. Would it be advised to rush him with a shield and try to pressure him there, or what?

I know that I have a lot of trouble at the start of a new stock as he's temporarily invincible which allows him to set-up a decent amount of explosives. Mines are easy to avoid generally, while C4s are usually explode immediately since humans don't want their forgetfulness to backfire on them. Should they kee pit out long though, it can only be avoided.

So these grenades I find annoying. The Snake can leave it out for a random amount of time then throw it out. How long does the grenade generally take to explode? 6 seconds or so? Should I use pick one up then rush at him?

Wow, I feel redundant somehow.

Ah, and Kizzu, you can use Utilt if you prefer for some juggling. As long as you do not overuse it, it should be refreshed generally for you to kill with later. It's a very good move that doesn't suffer from overuse compared to Dancing Blade and Fair.

Oh and yes, Counter used sparingly can help, but overusing it will allow harsh punishment from Snake. It is something that cannot be abused frequently in this match-up.

Random other question: Do any of your attack out-range Ftilt? I find it unlikely, but the only candidates are Shield Breaker and Ftilt.

Blah, blah, blah. xD

 

[AcidJazz]

First of all, play aggressive whenever you have an opening against anyone, not just snake. All top players play hard. Playing hard minimizes guessing what you're opponent is going to do. This is not to be confused with spamming everything. Know your limits.

Okay... so think of the overall picture of your character's weakness to get an idea of what you're trying to accomplish. Snake sucks in the air. Throw him up and hit him up when on the stage. It's a guessing game in the air if he's gonna air dodge. You guess correctly, you either hit him in the air or grab him on the ground. If you can fast fall with him, his airdodge becomes worthless so try to get that spacing down. Be careful of being kicked below though so if you're completely underneath him keep it uair tipping space. I prefer off to the side a bit.

If he's spamming grenades at you and all kinds of crap that he does spam, just get out of the way first. They're slow and easy to get around. If you have controller port advantage, dont be afraid to grab him out of grenade drops, especially near the ledge.

Snake's recovery is bad, do everything you can to get him off the ledge. If he's below the ledge and in spiking range and he's not dead in 2-3 seconds, you ****ed up. If he's too far out, hit him with fairs and nairs. Do not let him get past you and back to the center of the stage. If you did, you ****ed up. If he rolls, grab and throw his *** back where he belongs.

Be careful with your fairs. Ftilt > fair which is insanely annoying. Don't approach him from above either. His utilt > everything you can think of.

Counterpick the guy. Pick stages where he's going to be forced to be in the air. Rainbow road is a good example.

I believe at low % you can dancing blade to up hit finish and utilt / uair him to around 40% pretty easily.

Snake has to be marth's hardest matchup in my opinion so I have no idea what fox boy is talking about. It's doable though. He's awfully predictable so I'm hope I'm wrong with this statement in the near future. I foresee a lot more broken marth tactics coming and gaining some more edge on these two guys. Marth's grabs are becoming more and more useful as people play. I'm liking this very much.

One last thing. Every hit you can get... Take it. If you see snake up smash his mortar and you can run in and get a dancing blade hit (but nothing else), hit him once and run back to avoid the mortar. I was running at him, hit, ran back, he did it like 3 times stupidly, i just kept running back, swipe, run back, run back to him, swipe. Sometimes you can hit him with that when your fair is going to perfect shield. You will be punished on a fair perfect shield.


Oh and your thing about Olimar. Olimar's a pain if you don't know his spacing because its really deceptive. Once you get it down and know how to avoid getting suckered by his rainbow bright crap, it shouldn't be that hard of a matchup. Spacing spacing spacing.

 

[Steel]

@ your last question Viet..

I think most of Marth's moves outrange Snake except for the 2nd hit of the ftilt. 2nd hit > all

 

[∫unk]

To Mr. Junky. Er.. JITT.
HOW THE CRAP AM I GOING TO PLAY IN A TOURNAMENT IF ALL OF THEM ARE ONE HOUR AWAY, AND HOW AM I GOING TO TRAIN IF THE GOOD PLAYERS ARE IN TOURNAMENTS, AND IN SAID TOURNAMENT, I GET OWNED?
You're logic fails.

I don't see where it fails. If it's an hour away you travel one hour. You can only win by losing over and over again in the beginning.

And thanks for pointing out how little knowledge I have.
I admit I don't know much, but I use what I do know to communicate, and it seems I can't get the point through your thick skull.

Rage much? I'm not sure why it's my thick skulls fault that you can't communicate well. You're just showing your immaturity by resorting to weak insults.

It's called moving out of the boost smash's way.
You act like everything is going to completely destroy Marth.

Please learn to read carefully. I never said everything is going to completely destroy Marth. I said Snake has a lot of things going for him. The matchup isn't worse than 6:4 Snake and I'm thinking it's more 5:5 now anyway.

And you only have enough time to dodge it if you know it's coming. Again against good snake's you'll see that they use it when you're not expecting it.

Marth is not Pichu.

Genius.

I main Fox.
And Marth.
And Sonic.
And Lucario.
And Ness, Lucas, Ike, Falco AND WOLF.

This is a nitpick, but you don't have a main if you play all of those evenly. A main is someone you use most of the time, and generally you do the best relatively with that character. If you're playing someone you have no idea how they play then you would use your "main". If you would randomly pick between those 9 characters you listed, then you don't have a main. You just happen to play 9 characters randomly.

Maybe I will post a fight on youtube.

This would clear up a lot.

 

[VietGeek]

@ your last question Viet..

I think most of Marth's moves outrange Snake except for the 2nd hit of the ftilt. 2nd hit > all

Figures. Asking always verifies things. So yay.

First of all, play aggressive whenever you have an opening against anyone, not just snake. All top players play hard. Playing hard minimizes guessing what you're opponent is going to do. This is not to be confused with spamming everything. Know your limits.


Oh and your thing about Olimar. Olimar's a pain if you don't know his spacing because its really deceptive. Once you get it down and know how to avoid getting suckered by his rainbow bright crap, it shouldn't be that hard of a matchup. Spacing spacing spacing.

I'm not overly passive. Maybe I should have said that I don't rush in trying to do Fair chains and other irrational things without thinking it over first. If there's an opening, **** right I'll go for it. My sadistic self would never let openings go to waste. =/

You mean my Toon Link version of the match-up discussions? Hmm, I see. I never even fought a decent Olimar, it's just I didn't want to do MK first since that would be really copying Ulevo and a lot of TL users seemed to have lost out to Ollie.

 

[AcidJazz]

Nah was talking about PCHU. Guess thats why people "quote" thingsssssssss

 

[Emblem Lord]

*raises eyebrow

Nobody is taking my emo thread down.

How dare you conspire against me!!!!!!!

 

[VietGeek]

*raises eyebrow

Nobody is taking my emo thread down.

How dare you conspire against me!!!!!!!

Boss battle, nao.

/end fantasies of Marth boards being a JRPG

 

[Ulevo]

*raises eyebrow

Nobody is taking my emo thread down.

How dare you conspire against me!!!!!!!

We're not removing it El, we're just... Misplacing it temporarily.

 

[∫unk]

I shouldn't be the one saying this but... can we go back to talking about Snake?

 

[PCHU]

To JITT.
I am sick of insults as well.
Sorry.
But, I don't know who I really use most.
Usually I use Marth and Ike a lot, then Ness.
I don't use Lucas much, even though I destroy with him.
Lucario is mainly my last resort.
Fox, Falco, and Wolf are sort of on the edge.
I guess I use Marth, Ike, Ness, and Falco the most.
Don't know who I'm BEST with, because Falco chains yet Marth combos.
Ike is slow, but even the best players forget things are coming.
Ness is weird.
His fsmash is rather slow, but his bthrow and bair kill.
And then there's Fox.
I use him a lot as well, not so much Wolf.
Fox's attacks are pretty wicked, and he's a lot easier to use in Brawl.
His usmash is a killa.
But I don't know who I main.
I guess nobody.


Anyway, as for strategy, again, counter his tilts and whatever you see coming that he's about to do.
Running into Snake is a great way to get him to attack.
Dash to a counter.
Then proceed to fair him, and when offstage, dair.
I don't quite know if it's a sure-fire way to get a stock off of him, but I've done it to several people, it's just getting that meteor to connect....

 

[Steel]

Countering isn't a strategy, it's something you use every once in awhile. I don't think you realize if you play better players they will punish you heavily for stuff like that.

 

[PCHU]

When you see an attack coming and you counter it, how can that be punished?
Unless there's some broken attack cancel, counter can't be punished unless they don't hit you.
If they attack and you counter, there's nothing they can do but sit back and watch Marth strike back.
I'm not saying rush into it like an idiot, countering before they attack.

 

[Steel]

Snake's ftilt comes out on frame 4, you can't counter that on reaction. If you can see it coming every time then you are playing extremely predictable players.

 

[Pierce7d]

One thing I find very useful when fighting Snakes (and this is going to sound stupid at first, but it'll clear up, just read) is to ignore their explosives.

Snake is slow, especially compared to Marth, and he likes a slow paced match. His use of C4 and Grenades help this a lot. When Snake puts a C4 in between you and him, he's NOT actually expecting you to approach. This being said, approaching because the BEST thing to do. Even the best of Snakes I've fought (and yes, I do go to tournaments), are late with the C4 when I run right over them. It's a slap in the face to the Snake player when you DON'T act afraid of getting blown up. You break the mind game many Snakes rely on when they try to set the temp through explosives. I run through grenades, and counter them as well, since they are rather predictable explosives.

Dolphin Slashing through Snake's Boost Smash causes major LOLs. Also, unlike Counter, you can't be hit in the first 4 frames. Against a Snake at higher percents, this finishes.

I read this somewhere, and it's worth repeating.

Save your Fsmash and don't stale it. You'll need it to kill Snake.

 

[PCHU]

Sounds great.
But in everyone else's posts, they were talking to me as if Snake is the quickness.There are some things you don't know, and some you do.
Sometimes you just know the opponent will attack.
You have a brain, use it to it's maximum potential.
When does Fox's usmash come out?

 

[Bomber7]

Snake has range, Marth has speed, Nsake has strength, Marth has agility/ easy maneuvering capabilities. It all would come down to strategy in my opinion. Marth could glide across the stage and do his combat with snake though if he isnt carefull he will get seriusly damaged and knocked back pretty far. Not to mention traps.

 

[∫unk]

There's really no point in arguing with you. You're talking to a bunch of people that are tournament winners or regularly play tournament winners and you seem bent on your opinion being right despite having none of this crucial experience.

 

[PCHU]

OKAY, JUST SCREW COUNTER ALTOGETHER.

Apparently it's a sucky move and Sakurai was an idiot to include it.
And when the heck does Fox's usmash come out?