Samus
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Match-Up Discussion #25! Samus
- Thread starter Steel
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bludhoundz
Smash Ace
Zair outranges Marth.
Samus can projectile spam.
Once you get inside though, it's the usual zoning game. She has a few disjointed hitboxes though (fair, dtilt), so look out for that.
Samus can also upb out of shield as punishment, but it won't work against Marth if he's zoning properly.
Marth kills a lot earlier than Samus.
65:35
Maybe even 70:30
Samus can projectile spam.
Once you get inside though, it's the usual zoning game. She has a few disjointed hitboxes though (fair, dtilt), so look out for that.
Samus can also upb out of shield as punishment, but it won't work against Marth if he's zoning properly.
Marth kills a lot earlier than Samus.
65:35
Maybe even 70:30
Basically, all she really has on Marth is zair.
For more info on that:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=148271
For more info on that:
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=148271
grandmaster192
Smash Ace
I am finding this match up to be very, very hard for me...
What's the general stragtegy against Samus? I'm just not getting it sadly, I'll take any help I can get.
What's the general stragtegy against Samus? I'm just not getting it sadly, I'll take any help I can get.
What are you having trouble with? Her zair? Projectiles?
Jim Morrison
Smash Authority
use a pimp slap on her or choke her.
but really zair isnt fun. playing the dodge game wont work all the time cause zamus is gonna be using d-tilt to piss on you. leave enough space for a tipper and kill her. that's basicly what you do, you kill her. Marth must be agressive... so kill her
but really zair isnt fun. playing the dodge game wont work all the time cause zamus is gonna be using d-tilt to piss on you. leave enough space for a tipper and kill her. that's basicly what you do, you kill her. Marth must be agressive... so kill her
Emblem Lord
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Samus boards give this to Marth 70/30.
I give it 65/35.
Also Her d-tilt isn't that big of an issue. Marth actually outranges it and her d-tilt is unsafe on block. Her f-tilt does outrange Marth's pokes though. I think it's a little safer too.
I give it 65/35.
Also Her d-tilt isn't that big of an issue. Marth actually outranges it and her d-tilt is unsafe on block. Her f-tilt does outrange Marth's pokes though. I think it's a little safer too.
Umby
Smash Master
For the purpose of general tidbits, let's not forget Marth can fan missles (and uncharged Charge Shots?).
I find it easier to juggle Samus than it is to juggle other characters, as it seems difficult for Samus to protect herself with her dair. After that all she has are air dodges (punishable) and bombs (uair is too beast to be hindered by them).
I find it easier to juggle Samus than it is to juggle other characters, as it seems difficult for Samus to protect herself with her dair. After that all she has are air dodges (punishable) and bombs (uair is too beast to be hindered by them).
Emblem Lord
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Whoops. Fixed.
grandmaster192
Smash Ace
My problems with her:
Her Zair, when perfectly spaced, can shut down Marth's short hop game. It makes approaching her in the air very hard! My way around this is double jumping and falling on her with a fair to get inside her, but I don't know how safe that is tbh.
On the ground her ftilt is really quick. It also has some really good range and so does her dtilt. This allows her to out space my safe ground moves fairly easily, which causes a lot of problems. And there's no way for you to play a waiting game like you can against Snake because of her projectiles.
She can make it so YOU have to be the one to get inside of HER! That's usually Marth doing that. Marth has to get closer than he wants too, which isn't a good thing and it throws me off.
She can also take advantage of Marth's mediocre recovery.
-She can shoot charged shots at you of that stage.
-She has a really good and safe spike if you try and recover low to sweet spot the edge.
-She can run of the stage and gimp you with Nair or bair.
-She can just ledge hog you.
Samus can punish well, too. Her up b out of shield is really good and anoying. Also, all of her aerials have zero lag so she can combo out of them with stuff like uair>up b or Fair to jab.
All of this is giving me a lot of trouble.
That's very unsafe. The best way to get through her zair is either: shield approach, SHAD, ducking (depending on when she starts it).
We outrange the dtilt, but yeah the ftilt can be tough. If you block it you can probably punish with DB. But really, her ftilt can't keep Marth out that long and that's when you can set up your zoning and such. Her jab also isn't that good at close range, her dtilt is pretty unsafe. Ftilt also doesn't do too much dmg.
You should also be able to edge guard her pretty well.
Her up b out of shield isn't on the same level as Marth's at all, you'd have to space poorly to get hit by that.
We outrange the dtilt, but yeah the ftilt can be tough. If you block it you can probably punish with DB. But really, her ftilt can't keep Marth out that long and that's when you can set up your zoning and such. Her jab also isn't that good at close range, her dtilt is pretty unsafe. Ftilt also doesn't do too much dmg.
You should also be able to edge guard her pretty well.
Her up b out of shield isn't on the same level as Marth's at all, you'd have to space poorly to get hit by that.
Emblem Lord
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So why not run on the ground?
The Zair's hitbox is attached to the spark at the end. Avoid that and you are good.
Her f-tilt is good. It has slightly more range then Marth's pokes. Don't think it's safe though. If it's blocked you can punish. Same with d-tilt. Only her f-tilt outranges you from what I tested. Everything else Marth has slightly more range in terms of pokes.
Her f-tilt doesn't have that much knockback either so it might be disadvantage on hit at lower percents. Then you could punish even if it hit. I need to check.
D-tilt is slower then f-tilt and unsafe. I would worry more about f-tilt since it can hit more consistently.
Rely on your speed more not so much your range.
Be out of range of her up b and her jab. At that range she can't go poke for poke with you. She isn't fast enough. She will need to get away and that horrible roll won't do her much good.
The Zair's hitbox is attached to the spark at the end. Avoid that and you are good.
Her f-tilt is good. It has slightly more range then Marth's pokes. Don't think it's safe though. If it's blocked you can punish. Same with d-tilt. Only her f-tilt outranges you from what I tested. Everything else Marth has slightly more range in terms of pokes.
Her f-tilt doesn't have that much knockback either so it might be disadvantage on hit at lower percents. Then you could punish even if it hit. I need to check.
D-tilt is slower then f-tilt and unsafe. I would worry more about f-tilt since it can hit more consistently.
Rely on your speed more not so much your range.
Be out of range of her up b and her jab. At that range she can't go poke for poke with you. She isn't fast enough. She will need to get away and that horrible roll won't do her much good.
Umby
Smash Master
Doesn't Zair's hitbox travel as it extends though?
Hype
Smash Lord
Btw all of samus's aerials auto cancel including zair.
Emblem Lord
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The hitbox is still on the spark and is very linear.
grandmaster192
Smash Ace
Another question I have is what are our killing options against her?
feardragon64
Smash Champion
I'd give this 65:35 Marth for the reasons stated already.
Still, Samus' zair is a pain to deal with. She shuts down a lot of approach options with that and her projectiles. At the same time, she can play the camping game where Marth is forced to approach. Again, it's another spacing game. Stay close enough in that she can't stop your approach or afford to use her projectiles, but far enough out so that you can tipper attacks and be safe.
Not that hard of a battle if you have skills with spacing. Otherwise it's a pain in the ***.
Still, Samus' zair is a pain to deal with. She shuts down a lot of approach options with that and her projectiles. At the same time, she can play the camping game where Marth is forced to approach. Again, it's another spacing game. Stay close enough in that she can't stop your approach or afford to use her projectiles, but far enough out so that you can tipper attacks and be safe.
Not that hard of a battle if you have skills with spacing. Otherwise it's a pain in the ***.
Emblem Lord
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Mostly your smashes and up b if she happens to be at a high enough percent. Her recovery is good so you won't be gimping much, but you can rack up damage easily when she is off the stage.
Really it's your usual kill options here.
Really it's your usual kill options here.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
Here is a great way to shut down her z-air
SHADing and also walking
Once you get past her z-air it is almost domination she does have things you want to watch out for like up-b and f-tilt out of shield but with proper spacing you shouldn't be getting hit by that anyway
I play a pretty good samus in tourny just about everytime he enters but the last time we played I 3 stocked and two stock low damage him the majority of the time we played.
She is also fairly easy to juggle (lol no pun intended) just watch out for her falling d-air off the stage.
But 65:35 is an alright ratio I would say 60:40 because off her weight and ability to play on the edge extremely well, she has ok combos. Her greatest and safest ranged attack is her z-air hut once you get past it there isn't much that she can do that you should be able to quickly react to
SHADing and also walking
Once you get past her z-air it is almost domination she does have things you want to watch out for like up-b and f-tilt out of shield but with proper spacing you shouldn't be getting hit by that anyway
I play a pretty good samus in tourny just about everytime he enters but the last time we played I 3 stocked and two stock low damage him the majority of the time we played.
She is also fairly easy to juggle (lol no pun intended) just watch out for her falling d-air off the stage.
But 65:35 is an alright ratio I would say 60:40 because off her weight and ability to play on the edge extremely well, she has ok combos. Her greatest and safest ranged attack is her z-air hut once you get past it there isn't much that she can do that you should be able to quickly react to
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
if any of you want to play my samus(best one in the USA) then go to my thread in this board. it will give you and idea on what and what not to do.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
I thought TUDOR was the best samus. I asked many samus players and have actually read a couple of your two aguing about it. Also from the vids I've seen I would say that he's better
ZHMT
Smash Lord
After you get past the zair, you have a wide variety of options.
You can dtilt, which usually forces a roll or retreat. If Samus rolls, punish her roll with a dancing blade, if she retreats in the air you should walk towards her and prepare to fair, utilt or up smash as she lands.
You can simply do a dancing blade, however Samus can DI out of the down variation on the second hit, or 4th hit. I always just do forward x3 and forward/up.
You can also grab which is a good option if you conditioned Samus to shield, however some players might shield breaker.
Ftilt is a good choice to clear space, however you dont want to send Samus far away so she can reset her spacing.
I dont edgeguard Samus, I treat her like Metaknight. I try to set ledge traps that eventually lead to a dancing blade ko, or juggle.
Samus is all about getting past the zair and projectiles and attacking with quick safe moves. You cant stay at a decent range a lot because of the zair. Many Samus will try to zair and follow up with a grab. Be ready, spot dodge, and get a free hit.
65:35 Marth imo.
You can dtilt, which usually forces a roll or retreat. If Samus rolls, punish her roll with a dancing blade, if she retreats in the air you should walk towards her and prepare to fair, utilt or up smash as she lands.
You can simply do a dancing blade, however Samus can DI out of the down variation on the second hit, or 4th hit. I always just do forward x3 and forward/up.
You can also grab which is a good option if you conditioned Samus to shield, however some players might shield breaker.
Ftilt is a good choice to clear space, however you dont want to send Samus far away so she can reset her spacing.
I dont edgeguard Samus, I treat her like Metaknight. I try to set ledge traps that eventually lead to a dancing blade ko, or juggle.
Samus is all about getting past the zair and projectiles and attacking with quick safe moves. You cant stay at a decent range a lot because of the zair. Many Samus will try to zair and follow up with a grab. Be ready, spot dodge, and get a free hit.
65:35 Marth imo.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
65:35 is a pretty good estament
Does any 1 disagree with 65:35
Does any 1 disagree with 65:35
I would have to agree with 65:35 because I play Dannykat and Samus gets destroyed by Marth in close combat (sword **** combo's and grabs all day and up-b out of shield). It is also quite hard to keep a good Marth away because of his speed and he can get in your face whenever he wants if he's smart. Hard to spike a Marth because of his up-b (although you can down-smash for an edge guard if they go for the hit instead of the sweet spot when recovering). It is one of the more difficult match ups on a high skill level in my opinion, but then again what do I know. You should ask Xyro, he obviously plays a really good Marth around the beginning of his combo vid that he zairs and grabs about 5 times.
ZHMT
Smash Lord
Pierce7d
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I approve. I'm sad we aren't going into super detail, because Samus boards seem pretty chill, but my cosigns on this one as well.
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
Lol tudor also you played with dookdigity. Nice me and him played together in maryland awhile back. I wonder how good he's gotten since then???
Anyway 65:35 seems just about right
Anyway 65:35 seems just about right
Dookdigity is a very chill and cool guy, he's been playing a lot of 64 smash recently though and never comes visit me anymore =(
He plays snake when he plays brawl though, he's got a combo vid and some vids of us teaming together at nexus of his youtube profile ^^
He plays snake when he plays brawl though, he's got a combo vid and some vids of us teaming together at nexus of his youtube profile ^^
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
Yea I remeber when we and him played smash 64 it was about even he'd probably **** me now lol haven't played smash 64 since me and him played 
I need to make it out to a vegas tourny one day but I don't know when
I need to make it out to a vegas tourny one day but I don't know when
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
Cool I'll def. Be trying to make it down. Idk how soon yet but (school 
) I'll see what I can do
) I'll see what I can do
Xyro77
Unity Ruleset Committee Member
ah yes i AM the person to ask!
if you need some vidoes of the best marth player in the USA(royr) against the best samus in the USA(xyro) just so u can see how to beat samus's......BOOM! each link has multiple vids on it
RoyR(marth) vs Xyro(samus) part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Ym9nXjPiqQ
RoyR(marth) vs Xyro(samus) part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fdmwf1rmDms
_Kadaj_
Smash Hero
YOu guys need to get Roy r to come OOS