Match-Up Chart (Outdated); please refer to the new chart.

[Winston]

I know his aerials aren't on par with Ganon's, but...his mobility? Luigi's wavedash makes him one of the most mobile characters in the game. A gay Luigi can spend the whole match just wavedashing all over the place out of Ganon's reach, and occasionally drop in with the Dsmash (wavedashed Dsmash should be on par with Ftilt or Dtilt), and if that connects, Ganon's in for a world of hurt. Obviously this'll work much better on large stages, but it's enough to keep Ganon on edge and poke holes in his zoning.

wavedash dsmash doesn't threaten Ganon at all from a neutral position because if he's short hop fairing (which is like ganon's default option) dsmash is not going to hit him. You can't really wavedash in to punish him on landing either because wavedashing has a certain amount of lag time and he can just jab or something.

Luigi is not one of the most mobile characters in the game, not by a long shot.
1). he has to wavedash to achieve full speed, which limits his mobility greatly since wavedashing instead of dashdancing means you have to move in set increments.
2). ground mobility is half or less than half of overall mobility. Luigi's aerial mobility isn't so hot (read: atrocious).

Kaostar: Ya small stages definitely advantages Ganon. But the whole thing about Luigi having good aerials.. his aerials and mobility are just not as good as Ganons so.. Luigi needs to get in from the ground but I still can do my own Ftilt, downtilts and jab to prevent that from happening.. Zoning Luigi is easy. Luigi has to get Ganon offstage somehow. =P I think Ganon >> Luigi.

I agree completely on the zoning. I also think Ganon's punishment game is better. Neither can combo the other consistently (Luigi can get like 2-3 hits and more if Ganon loses his jump, but it's not like what he can do to fastfallers). Both can kill the other if they are off the stage pretty much every time. However, each of ganon's hits do 1.5-2x the damage of Luigi's hits, and he gets him off the stage way faster. With good DI, Luigi's strongest horizontal knockback moves (fair, dair) don't even force ganon to use up b or down b to recover until past 100.

 

[Dark Hart]

Because nobody has said why besides lolkicks.

lolkicks are Zelda's whole game, and they're really dumb. (As in gay) She kills Peach at low percents which usually doesn't happen against most in the Peach match-ups

 

[t3h Icy]

Peach > Zelda
Ganon > Young Link
Ganon > Doc
Ganon > Luigi
Fox >> Ganon

Ganon > Zelda?
Jigglypuff > Zelda?

I'm not too sure about Jigglypuff > Zelda. On-stage, Jigglypuff has more aerial mobility, but Zelda does have longer range. The thing is though that once Zelda has to recovery, Jigglypuff can grab the edge and go for a Rest since Zelda falls slowly. However, Jigglypuff's moves Bair, Fair and FSmash, do keep Zelda above the stage, so she could recover into the ground. I'm not sure how hard it would be to Rest that. Zelda's FSmash can't really be used safely on Jigglypuff, which limits her already small moveset. See this and this.

A lot of the match-up runs on how Zelda can sweetspot Jigglypuff. Maybe Jigglypuff > Zelda.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Luigi is not one of the most mobile characters in the game, not by a long shot.
1). he has to wavedash to achieve full speed, which limits his mobility greatly since wavedashing instead of dashdancing means you have to move in set increments.

so wrong. dashing is set. wd is variable. his ground mobility *****. slow in the air.

you can be precise with wd, you just need to be active cuz you slide alot.

 

[Winston]

so wrong. dashing is set. wd is variable. his ground mobility *****.

"dashing is set, wd is variable" doesn't make any sense.

I know you can wavedash a variable length, but once you start a wavedash you can't change directions for a certain amount of time. When you are dashdancing with a fast character you can change directions at any time.

 

[Dark Hart]

Peach > Zelda
Ganon > Young Link
Ganon > Doc
Ganon > Luigi
Fox >> Ganon

Ganon > Zelda?
Jigglypuff > Zelda?

I'm not too sure about Jigglypuff > Zelda. On-stage, Jigglypuff has more aerial mobility, but Zelda does have longer range. The thing is though that once Zelda has to recovery, Jigglypuff can grab the edge and go for a Rest since Zelda falls slowly. However, Jigglypuff's moves Bair, Fair and FSmash, do keep Zelda above the stage, so she could recover into the ground. I'm not sure how hard it would be to Rest that. Zelda's FSmash can't really be used safely on Jigglypuff, which limits her already small moveset. See this and this.

A lot of the match-up runs on how Zelda can sweetspot Jigglypuff. Maybe Jigglypuff > Zelda.

I'm so happy you used me as the example because I was going to post about how Jiggz >> Zelda. Now me vs HBox isn't the best example since I'm not that special, but HBox has a surprising amount of experience vs Zelda and really shows that Zelda is too slow to deal with Puff. Throwing out bairs and fairs can only work for so long against a character who uses the same strategy as Zelda (stay in the air and use aerials) and does it 100% better simply due to the amount of options Puff has. Rest *****, and it's not to hard for puff to get Zelda in a position for a rest.

imo jiggz >> zelda

I do a agree with Ganon > Zelda, he such a big target lol, so easy to get lightning kick combos

 

[SleepyK]

ganon weegee is ganon > weegee


in theory, ganon > fox because all of fox's approaches are beaten out if you can react with a jumping back fair. literally all of them. fox can laser camp you all day but when he has to come in you can outspace him.
certainly not in practice, though.

ganon falco is even imo and this is also what linguini and lambchops told me.
falco can pressure ganon really well but ganondof has very good options vs falco. watch linguini play the matchup. if ganon touches falco he should die.
if falco touches ganon he should die.
ganon can deal with laser and shield pressure pretty well assuming you can powershield a decent amount of the time and you know how to use platforms.

 

[KAOSTAR]

Are ppl saying ganon>fox? or am I just not reading correctly?

"dashing is set, wd is variable" doesn't make any sense.

I know you can wavedash a variable length, but once you start a wavedash you can't change directions for a certain amount of time. When you are dashdancing with a fast character you can change directions at any time.

Lenth wise, a dash is a set distance is what I meant. After a certain point you are considered running and cannot dash the other way. In a way its the same "certain amount of time" as WD but it starts later.

Im only saying that weegy gets from point A to point B quickly and by the time he gets there he can attack. His main problems come from him jumping.

sorry for being an ******* lol

 

[ChivalRuse]

Im only saying that weegy gets from point A to point B quickly and by the time he gets there he can attack. His main problems come from him jumping.

He also has problems with wavedashing into ftilts all day.

 

[KAOSTAR]

You mean him WD>Ftilt or him WDing into forward tilts and getting hit?

 

[ChivalRuse]

The latter. Ganon's ftilt > Luigi's wavedash.

 

[KAOSTAR]

oh, lol yea. You gotta wait for that ***** to be in the air. Getting hit with ganons ftilt pisses me off.

Its like how does such a big *** dude have such finesse

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Ganon = Ylink, we've had this discussion already.

 

[Wenbobular]

<_< while dashing you have the option of getting the hell out of the way of junk (wavedash back, jump, shield)
While wavedashing you're actually stuck in the wavedash once you start it

As for playing against Luigi, I think it's fairly simple

1. React / stuff Luigi's wavesmash approach
2. Punish Luigi for every high aerial he does on your shield
3. Edgeguard his predictable recovery

First point - Luigi's approach is pretty bad IMO <_< wavedashing makes you fast in terms of covering ground, but it also means that you're committing yourself every time ... sticking hitboxes in front of him is pretty easy for Ganon in Fair / Bair / Ftilt / other moves that Kage mentioned - they all have really good range and since Luigi slides so much it's not like you're going to get shield grabbed

Second point - Uair out of shield works for Ganon, Bair / Nair probably work too (or any aerial for that matter) but Uair is the fastest and comes out in that big arc

Third point - Luigi missile is so easy to edgeguard if they aren't misfiring - between tipped Uairs and Dair, Luigi shouldn't be making it back

Man I love playing Luigis . . . getting to put experience of having a Luigi main as a roommate to good use

 

[ChivalRuse]

Roommate experience is so cheap. I want to be good against Luigi too!

 

[Wenbobular]

Just punish, Joe. ~_~
You just never punish
That's all you need man
High aerial on your shield? Jump out and smack him
And edgeguards . . . hit them

Man I can't wait 'til we start discussing Luigi

 

[SleepyK]

ganon uair >>>> weegee

 

[Divinokage]

Ganon = Ylink, we've had this discussion already.

I say Ylink is easier to deal with than Link due to Ylink shield being ****tier.

 

[Fernandez]

Falcon >>> Ganon

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I say Ylink is easier to deal with than Link due to Ylink shield being ****tier.

I say Ylink is harder to deal with because he is faster in all categories and has better methods to kill ganon.

 

[VGmasta]

<_< while dashing you have the option of getting the hell out of the way of junk (wavedash back, jump, shield)
While wavedashing you're actually stuck in the wavedash once you start it

As for playing against Luigi, I think it's fairly simple

1. React / stuff Luigi's wavesmash approach
2. Punish Luigi for every high aerial he does on your shield
3. Edgeguard his predictable recovery

First point - Luigi's approach is pretty bad IMO <_< wavedashing makes you fast in terms of covering ground, but it also means that you're committing yourself every time ... sticking hitboxes in front of him is pretty easy for Ganon in Fair / Bair / Ftilt / other moves that Kage mentioned - they all have really good range and since Luigi slides so much it's not like you're going to get shield grabbed

Second point - Uair out of shield works for Ganon, Bair / Nair probably work too (or any aerial for that matter) but Uair is the fastest and comes out in that big arc

Third point - Luigi missile is so easy to edgeguard if they aren't misfiring - between tipped Uairs and Dair, Luigi shouldn't be making it back

Man I love playing Luigis . . . getting to put experience of having a Luigi main as a roommate to good use

That's what I figured about the matchup. I never actually used Ganon against a Luigi before. But just thinking about/watching the matchup made me think it was horrible for Luigi.
It seems like Ganon >> Luigi.

ganon uair >>>> weegee

Yea, the matchup is automatically Ganon > Luigi without even taking into account Ganon's other strengths in the matchup. Luigi's dominated in the air just by Ganon's u-air, that's gotta be awful for such a slow faller. He only approaches on the ground with a long wavedash that's easily shut down by half of Ganon's moves: b-air, d-air, f-air, f-tilt, d-tilt, down-B. Even if Luigi has edgeguarding on Ganon, how the **** to you get him off the stage?! It seems Luigi has to pretty much bait Ganon into messing up.

Taking the rest of Luigi's weaknesses into account I'd think Ganon >> Luigi.

 

[JPOBS]

in theory, ganon > fox because all of fox's approaches are beaten out if you can react with a jumping back fair. literally all of them. fox can laser camp you all day but when he has to come in you can outspace him.
certainly not in practice, though.

-____-

Why would fox ever have to come in if he's laser camping you?

Lets play super theory bros for a second here. Lets say ganon could perfectly crush every approach attempt fox ever makes by the all powerful jump back Fair.

ganon STILL loses because the perfect theory fox will just laser him and then the timer will rn out and ganon will lose.

ganon isnt even > fox in theory, let alone practice.

 

[Divinokage]

Falcon >>> Ganon

Lol, apparently you never played the matchup correctly.

I say Ylink is harder to deal with because he is faster in all categories and has better methods to kill ganon.

Ya but Ylink doesnt have as much knockback power than Link so I think it's harder to space and also has less range. If you think it's impossible to go through bombs and boomerangs then you are wrong. Also what is Ylink gonna do if Ganon recovers high or sweetspots the ledge? I have beaten Lord HDL 3-0 against his Link, I really think Link is harder than Ylink. Ylink is lighter and dies much easier with his ****ty recovery.

 

[ranmaru]

Sometimes when I go against a Ganon I try to not jump as much. I try to stay grounded haha.

 

[Dark Hart]

Ya but Ylink doesnt have as much knockback power than Link so I think it's harder to space and also has less range. If you think it's impossible to go through bombs and boomerangs then you are wrong. Also what is Ylink gonna do if Ganon recovers high or sweetspots the ledge? I have beaten Lord HDL 3-0 against his Link, I really think Link is harder than Ylink. Ylink is lighter and dies much easier with his ****ty recovery.

kage, if you should've learned anything from this thread, it's that personal experience doesn't matter, no matter how good you are or if you're man enough to bring a sword onto a plane to America

 

[Juno McGrath]

kage, if you should've learned anything from this thread, it's that personal experience doesn't matter, no matter how good you are or if you're man enough to bring a sword onto a plane to America

Get ***** airport security <3

Kage dont give a ****.

 

[-ACE-]

Imo, for Ganon:
Hardest = Sheik, top level Fox
disadvantage = Falcon, Jiggs, Falco, Marth*
Even = Ganon, Peach
very slight advantage = Doc, Mario, Luigi, DK, Samus*, ICs*, Link, Pikachu
Advantage = everyone else.
(* = very close to even)

 

[ChivalRuse]

^ Seems pretty accurate.

 

[Vist]

Ganon definitely has a pretty solid advantage on luigi (ganon >> luigi). It's already been said but luigi's recovery can easily get wrecked by ganon. Approaching ganon is rough and it doesn't take much for luigi to take a good hit at a relatively low percent and get killed or be forced to recover.

IMO it's luigi's worst match-up after sheik. Not impossible or anything but it's not fun lol.

 

[Kyu Puff]

^ Seems pretty accurate.

Except Ganon vs ICs is not even in any way...

 

[ChivalRuse]

I mean, it is pretty darn hard ...

until you grab him. XD

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Ya but Ylink doesnt have as much knockback power than Link so I think it's harder to space and also has less range. If you think it's impossible to go through bombs and boomerangs then you are wrong. Also what is Ylink gonna do if Ganon recovers high or sweetspots the ledge? I have beaten Lord HDL 3-0 against his Link, I really think Link is harder than Ylink. Ylink is lighter and dies much easier with his ****ty recovery.

But YL is faster than link and much faster than ganon. His range isn't that bad either, actually. He has more than fox. His bair and nair speed combined with projectiles, dash attack and dsmash really are great tools for him in this matchup. I agree i think ganon has the edge, but nowhere near >.

For your specific question, what will YL do if ganon goes high or sweet spot: If ganon goes high, YL nairs him off stage and continues nairing him preventing him from grabbing the edge with his jump. If ganon goes low YL can jump out and nair gimp him, dtilt meteor or dsmash. The last two are techable the first isn't. All of them can kill ganon.

 

[-ACE-]

Except Ganon vs ICs is not even in any way...

I'd be interested in hearing your take on the matchup. ;>

 

[SleepyK]

I mean, it is pretty darn hard ...

until you grab him. XD

sounds like ice climbers :D

 

[Pi]

Just to be clear
Can you SDI with the C stick?

 

[SleepyK]

no.
you can asdi and trajectory di with the c stick
but there has to be hitstun.

 

[Divinokage]

kage, if you should've learned anything from this thread, it's that personal experience doesn't matter, no matter how good you are or if you're man enough to bring a sword onto a plane to America

LOL, well my personal experience is that mostly everyone underestimates Ganon imo. And bringing a sword to US = lolz.

Get ***** airport security <3

Kage dont give a ****.

Hey I just wanted to RP a little bit, I promise I didn't want to kill anyone. lol.

Imo, for Ganon:
Hardest = Sheik, top level Fox
disadvantage = Falcon, Jiggs, Falco, Marth*
Even = Ganon, Peach
very slight advantage = Doc, Mario, Luigi, DK, Samus*, ICs*, Link, Pikachu
Advantage = everyone else.
(* = very close to even)

Ganon destroys ICs. I'd say also Marth and Ganon is pretty much even and with Peach.. I'm not sure right now but it would seem probably slight advantage Peach at this point.

Edit: Ganon in theory sucks balls, YL seems better. But even a high ranking YL, I can probably make him feel how hopeless it is to try to outcamp me, but seems like camping is overpowered in theory so I can't win...

 

[SleepyK]

imo in theory and in practice, peach has a slight edge on ganondorf... perhaps due to edge guards. on stage both chars are pretty ok vs each other.

 

[Divinokage]

imo in theory and in practice, peach has a slight edge on ganondorf... perhaps due to edge guards. on stage both chars are pretty ok vs each other.

The new turnip game and the way Peach reacts these days, it's hard on stage too. Well maybe I am getting a little old.. 24. Slower reactions?

 

[SleepyK]

but ganondorf's pimp hand is mighty