Marth's Infinite on Ness is no more! YES

[OmegaXF]

So basically this is just double stick DI?

Marth can still dash grab anyway.

It just means that he will get less percent off.

And he can still get finishing moves off if Ness is in kill percents.

There's not enough time to do a Dashing Grab. Only enough to do a DSmash. Thats what I've heard. I think you can sub the DSmash for a DTilt.

 

[Zankoku]

Also, why would Marth grab him when Marth has to go to him to get it whereas it's easier to attack?

Gee, I dunno, why the fuck did ANY Marth EVER grab a Ness even before the discovery that you can escape the grab release infinite when it's easier to just attack? Like, wtf, it's so hard to get a grab, never mind it giving a free setup for a guaranteed dsmash.

 

[SwordmasterXXXI]

I just relized that ness ***** marth. proof.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=CDWHjkqgYt0

ps. read the description.

I've actually seen worse Marths. 95% of marth players suck anyway so w/e.

 

[Gaussis]

@Ankoku: Whoa, take it easy. Up to my knowledge, Marth didn't deliberately go for the grab, it came to him (otherwise known as Ness approaches). Also, the deal was that one grab = death, much better than any attack Marth has. We both know Marth has to approach here, so I don't see what you mean.

 

[Zankoku]

Marth has to approach until he gets into that range where Ness can't effectively use projectiles, and can't get into range for anything fast quickly enough to hit Marth. From there, Ness can keep shielding, roll toward, roll away, or use a fair. The situation rarely improves from that point on.

 

[OmegaXF]

Marth lacks range in departments where he needs it. Same goes to speed. Power might be an issue here...

In this matchup Marth has all the range he needs. A good Marth will never be far enough to give you PKT. And up close he has all the tools to keep you at bay and make sure he is out of Ness's reach.

In speed Marth is faster than Ness. His moves come out quicker than Ness and takes priority in almost every area.

In power Marth racks up damage pretty quickly and tips kill at low percentages. He even swats the BS projectiles Ness throw at him.

If anything Ness lacks the Range,Speed,and Power needed for this matchup.

This turns Marth into a smexy Lotion bearing Freak that Ness can't touch.

 

[∫unk]

Can't swat the tail. I'm not good at making scenarios. Only setting them up through the game.

@Ankoku: Fthrow sets the perfect distance for PKT.

@Junkinthetrunk: For the last time, there is no grab-release CG.

k go back to ness forums where you think you'll actually stand a chance against a good marth with this

did i even say chaingrab in my post i don't even recall... if i didn't you falied hard.

edit: yup, failed. just what i expect out of a ness

 

[∫unk]

Marth has to approach until he gets into that range where Ness can't effectively use projectiles, and can't get into range for anything fast quickly enough to hit Marth. From there, Ness can keep shielding, roll toward, roll away, or use a fair. The situation rarely improves from that point on.

your sig wins... seriously

 

[Gaussis]

Ness still sucks sorry. Oh and the margin of error Marth has to for this matchup is so much larger than Ness. Ness has to do some crazy shenanigan to try and get out of grab release while all Marth does is spam A and have decent reaction time.

Does this not refer to the CG? If your answer is no, then you fail. Hard. You didn't say it, but this is what you implied, sir.

Okay. I'm done for today. Although I would love to continue this argument, it seems that I have more important matters at hand.

Good day.

 

[ColinJF]

Of course Marth is going to be hit by pk thunder... that's the main point of a grab. Both forward and up throw pretty much always lead into a single pk thunder 1 hit, which itself leads into additional follow up. These throws also do respectable damage themselves. Ness has a good dash grab. I'm not convinced that down smash out of a grab is actually more scary than what Ness can do out of a grab. He has two throws that give him a positional advantage (forward and up), one throw that kills (back), and one throw that is bad and that he won't be using (down).

Yeah, grabs aren't that hard to land... and that goes both ways.

In the air Marth has little defence against pk thunder, except reaching the ground.

***

For something a bit unrelated:

Give me a scenario where Marth would be forced to dodge PKT and if he did so he would eat PKT2.

I simply can't visualize it.

I should say that this probably only happens at most once per match, not all the time. But let's see if we can visualise it.

What Gaussis said isn't quite the situation that might occur, it would be more like this. Suppose that Marth is coming down from some hit, and Ness jumps up and starts to use pk thunder (it is actually very fast) so that we get to this situation:

Marth is symbolised by "1" and Ness is the "2", and you can also see pk thunder.

After hitting himself with pk thunder, Ness moves too fast through the air to air dodge or counter it on reaction. But you see that the head of pk thunder is about to hit Ness into you, so you air dodge. But pk thunder is so fast that instead of hitting himself, Ness can just adjust the angle and hit himself into where you will be at the end of your air dodge. He can't do this as a reaction to your air dodge, which means it's basically a 50-50 guess whether you will air dodge it successfully. If you do, Ness is most likely safe from any retaliation as he lands on the stage; if you don't, you get hit by an extremely strong move and probably killed.

Ness does this to every character though, not just Marth. I'm only attempting to give a visulisation since you asked.

 

[Zankoku]

Or just fair the PK Thunder, in both the situation of throwing Marth and "baiting" him when both players are in the air. lol

Seriously, if any Marth is consistently eating a PK Thunder, they're doing it wrong.

 

[OmegaXF]

In order to get the PKT behind Ness so that you can attempt a PKT2 you would have to first wave the PKT by Marths face. If you do that then Marth can FAir your PKT, Ness has an orgasm and shakes his head as PKT disappears, then Marth punishes accordingly. A better situation would be....to imagine that the 1 is Ness and that the horizontal line at the bottom of the description is right underneath Ness, the 2 is Marth of the right edge of Battlefield, the line represents Battlefield and the PKT stays where it is, which shows PKT attempting to hit Marth as he tries to grab the ledge of the stage. That would be the possible only time PKT would hit Marth. And even if it does connect, PKT would only hit Marth going up further bettering his recovery.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Whether or not Colin is correct, I think he deserves an A for effort.

 

[OmegaXF]

But effort can only get you so little Lotion.... XD

 

[cutter]

Technically, this was never an infinite in the first place because Marth gets dragged forward ever so slightly every time he regrabs Ness. It just did an obscene amount of damage and pretty much sealed Ness's fate if was grabbed. While it didn't go from 0-999, for all practical use, it was 0-death.

Marth can still dash grab Ness to the end of the stage and end it with whatever to build up a huge amount of damage. It won't be as bad as it was before where you could get 150+ with it, but the damage buildup is still quite significant.

This doesn't even change the fact Marth gets a free tipper smash even if Ness DIs away. So as it still stands, if Ness gets grabbed at high %, he's done.

 

[Ref]

Marth cannot dash grab I retested it and posted it several times. I can't get a dash grab with Marth with Ness using this.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I find that hard to believe. Even so there are other things Marth can do.

 

[Zankoku]

Regardless of the grab release not leading into another grab, it doesn't change the standard formula of beating Ness with Marth.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Get Raaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaped!!!!!!!

Lmaooooooooooooooo!!!!!!!

 

[feardragon64]

Anko wins
/thread

 

[OmegaXF]

I've seen it all now. to Epic!!

 

[Levitas]

ankoku's pic made me lol really hard. Then I started crying.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Since apparently there is a way out of the infinite grab, there is probably a way out of the dsmash tipper as well. Just need to wait until someone figures it out.

 

[PKNintendo]

Lol at the Marth's getting worked up here. It's like their mad at this! Seriously just chill, who cares what the matchup is anymore. Ness' we still get Fsmashed!

Marth's, it's just Ness go pester someone else.

XD at Ankoku's pic, but you made 1 slight error, it's SNES!

XD, Im saving that.

 

[Emblem Lord]

No one got worked up.

We were giving logical arguments to counter the idea that the match-up was 60/40.

And we had some fun along the way.

 

[illinialex24]

Regardless of the grab release not leading into another grab, it doesn't change the standard formula of beating Ness with Marth.

Spoiler

Ness SUCKS

That is the definition of Marth equaling win.

 

[chaos_]

doesn't matter if marth can still dash grab

 

[illinialex24]

doesn't matter if marth can still dash grab

Ref is arguing that you can't and I think you still can, or at least step grab. Which should allow Marth to continue it anyway. And a guaranteed 20+ damage per grab and 30+ at higher percentages is pretty good, so nothing changes.

 

[IDK]

notice how he said marth's INFINITE on ness is no more. this means although it does TONS of damage still, and is inescapable for a period of time, it is only inescapable for A PERIOD OF TIME. with the di, it results in the eventual escape off the edge, possibly preventing a kill.

 

[feardragon64]

notice how he said marth's INFINITE on ness is no more. this means although it does TONS of damage still, and is inescapable for a period of time, it is only inescapable for A PERIOD OF TIME. with the di, it results in the eventual escape off the edge, possibly preventing a kill.

Spaced Tipper fsmash

 

[Ref]

notice how he said marth's INFINITE on ness is no more. this means although it does TONS of damage still, and is inescapable for a period of time, it is only inescapable for A PERIOD OF TIME. with the di, it results in the eventual escape off the edge, possibly preventing a kill.

Marth cannot regrab Ness with this new discovery. Meaning of Marth goes to press grab again he won't reach Ness at all. Marth can still do many attacks out of the grab though, the attacks are not Tipper ones though.

Marth can't seem to dash grab Ness either, I might need a better tester for this.

 

[illinialex24]

Marth cannot regrab Ness with this new discovery. Meaning of Marth goes to press grab again he won't reach Ness at all. Marth can still do many attacks out of the grab though, the attacks are not Tipper ones though.

Marth can't seem to dash grab Ness either, I might need a better tester for this.

Did you try a step grab? That should work. And you likely should have Steel test this.

 

[betterthanbonds9]

oooo, mindgames, one time you double DI the next time you dont so you avoid the tip....

ness still gets ***** but i think the matchup can be docked safely to 98/2

anko, love ya, beautiful art

and lol at the butthurt ness players "OMG I have a chance" Steel+Anko: "lol eat smash, die before 80"

Spoiler

how come every ness thinks that PKT2 hits like every fricken time? And everytime it's with the magical tail

 

[illinialex24]

oooo, mindgames, one time you double DI the next time you dont so you avoid the tip....

ness still gets ***** but i think the matchup can be docked safely to 98/2

anko, love ya, beautiful art

and lol at the butthurt ness players "OMG I have a chance" Steel+Anko: "lol eat smash, die before 80"

Spoiler

how come every ness thinks that PKT2 hits like every fricken time? And everytime it's with the magical tail

I agree with your thinking... its still rapage.

 

[cman]

So if they double DI, ness can be tipper fsmashed, and if they don't, ness can be regrabbed?

 

[Ref]

No Ness cannot be Tipper forward smashed if he double DI's.... If he doesn't he can be regrabbed.

 

[illinialex24]

No Ness cannot be Tipper forward smashed if he double DI's.... If he doesn't he can be regrabbed.

No, but if he double DI's, he can be tipper D-smashed unless I am wrong. Which is still pretty good.

 

[betterthanbonds9]

So if they double DI, ness can be tipper Dsmashed, and if they don't, ness can be regrabbed?

fixed for you

 

[∫unk]

Does this not refer to the CG? If your answer is no, then you fail. Hard. You didn't say it, but this is what you implied, sir.

Okay. I'm done for today. Although I would love to continue this argument, it seems that I have more important matters at hand.

Good day.

1) Pretend you have something else to do when you're trolling smashboards on a saturday night.
2) I don't really care what you call it, I was referring to the grab release which is easy to chain but I never called it a chaingrab.
3) You're obviously too stupid to know what happened in this argument so I'll give you a summary. I said Marth has more margin of error, like when it comes to the grab release. Then you tell me there's no grab release chain grab, completely misunderstanding my original point. Then I point out your stupidity but you still don't know what's going on and try to act smart.

LMK when you l2read.

 

[Ref]

Ness can't be Tipper down smashed from what I tested as well.