Marth's Infinite on Ness is no more! YES

[illinialex24]

Ness can't be Tipper down smashed from what I tested as well.

I personally doubt that all of the following four are true.

1. Ness cannot be grabbed
2. Ness cannot be tipper F-smashed
3. Ness cannot be tipper D-smashed
4. Ness cannot be step grabbed.

At least 1 of these should be possible, and even if not, just pounding with C-stick forward to the grab release smash works really well still.

 

[PKNintendo]

No one got worked up.

We were giving logical arguments to counter the idea that the match-up was 60/40.

And we had some fun along the way.

65-35 or 70-30 seems right up my alley, 60-40 is a ''normal'' matchup.

On the bright side, who wants coctail?

 

[Simna ibn Sind]

hey ill take what i can get...

see you on FD, marth^_^

 

[Pierce7d]

Wow, didn't even know you still played. See you there.

 

[_Kadaj_]

if there was a wall present then it'd still be infinite *runs away*

 

[Ref]

if there was a wall present then it'd still be infinite *runs away*

This is one of the reasons walled stages are banned.

 

[feardragon64]

This is one of the reasons walled stages are banned.

lol random "stumps" of walls on delfino

 

[Ref]

The stage is legal because it's not always walled.

Good point though.

 

[feardragon64]

There are enough stages that at least "temporary" have walls that it makes counter picking = insta stock loss.
Delfino(a stage marth does well on anyways)
Rainbow cruise(the ship)
Pictochat(*sigh*)
Pirate Ship(before the catapult goes off, and if it does, there goes ness lol)
PK Stadium(I don't need to explain this one)

 

[feardragon64]

Why is smashboards lagging so much?
Double post lag

 

[ColinJF]

Taking Ness to Pirate Ship would be an hilariously poor decision for Marth.

Also it's easy to avoid the walls on those stages, and the stock loss isn't "instant" in the unlikely event you get grabbed near one; in fact it's quite slow and drawn out, so the stage might end up changing anyway.

 

[Ref]

It's not an instant loss of stock. Catapult can't really KO, You can DI it to live.

Players can break faster than you think so it's not an automatic stock loss.

These walls do disappear eventually so you probably won't get anymore than 40% if a Ness breaks properly and starts from 0%.

And it's not impossible to avoid walls...

But very good points nonetheless.

 

[feardragon64]

Taking Ness to Pirate Ship would be an hilariously poor decision for Marth.

Also it's easy to avoid the walls on those stages, and the stock loss isn't "instant" in the unlikely event you get grabbed near one; in fact it's quite slow and drawn out, so the stage might end up changing anyway.

Not saying you should. Just saying it's possible. I was more pointing out stages with temporary walls at that point.

And if your the least bit competent and can do the grab release against a wall (I'm not talking about getting into position), it's a huge disadvantage. For example, pk stadium, you can't seriously expect to not be up against walls at some point. Even if the stage changes before Marth can get to a killing percent, Marth can seriously hurt Ness's chances of winning. Not to mention, Marth already controls the match, all it does is limit Ness's options more. That's all I'm saying. Don't take instant so literally. Besides, we've already established if Marth doesn't have a wall to do it against, he can do it until Ness double stick DI's out and then he gets a tipper fsmash to the face. Yay face!

I mean tipper fsmash.

 

[Ref]

Want me to quote all the times I posted that you do not get tippers?

Ness can't be Tipper down smashed from what I tested as well.

Marth cannot regrab Ness with this new discovery. Meaning of Marth goes to press grab again he won't reach Ness at all. Marth can still do many attacks out of the grab though, the attacks are not Tipper ones though.

Marth can't seem to dash grab Ness either, I might need a better tester for this.

The forward smash does not Tipper, the down smash does not tipper either.

Also I found out you can just hold the two sticks diagonally.

And Pk fire isn't Ness' only projectile.

No Ness cannot be Tipper forward smashed if he double DI's.... If he doesn't he can be regrabbed.

No offense but I did point that out a bit.

 

[Zankoku]

Wait, grab release at a wall? Why don't you just grab release into dtilt loop in that situation? Much better DPS given the limited time the wall will be there.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

Corneria isn't banned in some places. CP that. But why do the grab release at a wall when you could just Dtilt infinite?

 

[crazn137]

But why do the grab release at a wall when you could just Dtilt infinite?

Dtilt is escapable at higher percentages.

 

[Conclusively]

Corneria isn't banned in some places. CP that. But why do the grab release at a wall when you could just Dtilt infinite?

.. Lol, Ankoku said it before you. [1 post before you] But yeah, no point on grab releasing when you could dtilt instead.

 

[¯\_S.(ツ).L.I.D._/¯]

@crazn: So, by that percent they'll be easily kill-able, and will die to a Dsmash.

 

[feardragon64]

Wait, grab release at a wall? Why don't you just grab release into dtilt loop in that situation? Much better DPS given the limited time the wall will be there.

Point taken. That's probably a much better idea. The only reason I can think of that grab releasing would be better is your dtilt would be completely decayed....but two dancing blades and you're practically golden.

 

[streetracr77]

That does help lucas and ness, but only a little. I still think it's a fun thing to do on Ness and Lucas.
Btw, he can still dashgrab and only lose a little percent.

 

[illinialex24]

That does help lucas and ness, but only a little. I still think it's a fun thing to do on Ness and Lucas.
Btw, he can still dashgrab and only lose a little percent.

Can Lucas and Ness jump break out?? Cause I was doing it on a Lucas and he flew out weird, like a jump break. If so, how could I stop this if I can.

 

[crazn137]

Can Lucas and Ness jump break out?? Cause I was doing it on a Lucas and he flew out weird, like a jump break. If so, how could I stop this if I can.

Mash the A button

 

[feardragon64]

Can Lucas and Ness jump break out?? Cause I was doing it on a Lucas and he flew out weird, like a jump break. If so, how could I stop this if I can.

They only jump break if you aren't hitting them when they release. So ya, mash a, though I prefer z since it's the same button to regrab too.

Also, ref, sorry for not being clear. You can stutter step the fsmash to tip. I tested with it.

 

[Ref]

They only jump break if you aren't hitting them when they release. So ya, mash a, though I prefer z since it's the same button to regrab too.

Also, ref, sorry for not being clear. You can stutter step the fsmash to tip. I tested with it.

Tested the stutter step fsmash to tip. It can be shielded. Power shielded.

 

[illinialex24]

Tested the stutter step fsmash to tip. It can be shielded. Power shielded.

Of course. But will Ness players anticipate it? Its worth it at KO percentages.

Ok and cool thanks guys. Can mashing forward C (for the F-smash and the pounding) work as well? Cause I was doing that and he got a jump break...

 

[Ref]

If you Mash c stick forward you may not pummel fast enough and Ness will jump break.

 

[illinialex24]

If you Mash c stick forward you may not pummel fast enough and Ness will jump break.

Yeah, I was worried about that. I guess I'm gonna mash A.

 

[Steel]

If you Mash c stick forward you may not pummel fast enough and Ness will jump break.

Then Marth gets a free fair.

Seriously, if Marth grabs Ness something WILL happen.

 

[Ref]

Yea jump grab release to F air is annoying. I don't find grab release to down smash or F smash as annoying as jump release to F air.

 

[illinialex24]

Then Marth gets a free fair.

Seriously, if Marth grabs Ness something WILL happen.

Nice, I might try that out. It would be epic to Ken Combo from that.

 

[Ref]

Nice, I might try that out. It would be epic to Ken Combo from that.

The ken combo does not work in brawl.

 

[illinialex24]

The ken combo does not work in brawl.

I know its not a true combo but it can work.

 

[Steel]

If your opponent doesn't know how to DI.

 

[SwordmasterXXXI]

If your opponent doesn't know how to DI.

That's like 70% of brawl players.

 

[BanjoKazooiePro]

Dash grab for the win.

 

[illinialex24]

If your opponent doesn't know how to DI.

I know, but it still sometimes works. Mainly on heavies. I have a funny video to upload soon.

 

[BacklashMarth]

I desire to see this video. Iono why the whole Ken Combo is still such a touchy subject. Its just a name, not to be interpreted literally. Maybe its just that ppl have a deep rooted hate for a person whos name was mentioned previously in this post. In which case call Foul: No h8ting.

 

[streetracr77]

Whoa! This is strange, I thought it was an infinite grab, but you proved me wrong.
Weird...

 

[MRTW113]

The DI makes perfect spacing. So when Ness is free, it all depends on who reacts and f-smashes first. (Tipperz)