Marth's Grab Game is Amazing

[Steel]

Who said anything about air releases?

pknintendo and alterhalo

 

[_Kadaj_]

You don't know what you're talking about. You have no experience with Marth at a high level of play. Don't come in here with ignorance when I'm trying to teach you. Who's grab game is amazing then? JIGGLYPUFF?

this sounds as if your talking about jiggz...

 

[Pierce7d]

sidestepping = wait for it= brawl standard ****z


waiting rofl

If you call a sidestep, you have over 9000 options. I personally would go with dtilt to fsmash combo for like 30 something damage.

 

[Steel_Samurai]

Wow, great job, best thread I've read in a while
Great for manipulating/controlling opponets
Most of this should be common sense, but most(me) still don't think of it

 

[takeurlife2]

i wonder if the other character boards meatride this much....

 

[Villi]

Meatriding... I usually imagine someone flying through the clouds, straddling a giant sausage. Sometimes reverse cowgirl.

 

[clowsui]

Wow, great job, best thread I've read in a while
Great for manipulating/controlling opponets
Most of this should be common sense, but most(me) still don't think of it

ss this is because you are a noob, you need to start learning advanced trapping since your spacing is already pretty good
even e_ has started to learn ledge trapping...except i **** him with walk away -> tipper fsmash at the ledge all dai lol
the last time i played you two i had to fukkin EDUCATE you, get at me even though i lost in the round robin (slacking johns)

 

[OmegaXF]

F-throw to Pivot F-throw= OmegaXF Trademark lol.

 

[Flamingo]

yeah the grab release is a great mixup. that's all i do with marth.

all lowercase. wow i feel unintelligent.

 

[PKNintendo]

i blatantly said i wasnt going to cover air releases >_>

Wario and Squirtle fall under the *special category*

Whatever floats your boat.

 

[Terodactyl Yelnats]

I always use his grabs, they are in his best moves section, except back throw.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

When using F-throw to chain-grab fast-fallers, is it best to go for 3 grabs or just 2? I understand they can DI after the second throw. And is it advisable to add in a few pummels on the last grab before leading to a F-smash or Dancing Blade for extra damage?

Lastly, can D-throw chain-grab as well as F-throw? And on the same characters?

 

[rehab]

Up-Throw
Even if you up throw at like 5%, they may just air dodge on their way down and you can grab them again.

uh

I can do that with a lot of character's uthrows, and while it is really funny, anybody who isn't lolreallyterrible is going to try to give themselves more space instead of coming back down on my terms

 

[illinialex24]

uh

I can do that with a lot of character's uthrows, and while it is really funny, anybody who isn't lolreallyterrible is going to try to give themselves more space instead of coming back down on my terms

Oh I wanna see steel respond to this one.

*Grabs popcorn*

*Pulls up a chair*

 

[illinialex24]

*Starts tapping watch because of late show*

*Looks incredulously towards the stage for some sign of action*

*Gives up defeated and goes home, pissed he spent 5 bucks on the show*

 

[VietGeek]

Steel plays hard to get.

She's mad hawt though.

 

[Steel]

its bump all my threads day, for refreshers and for the newcomers to the board.

some of this may be outdated, but its still good stuff nonetheless

 

[Pr0phetic]

its bump all my threads day, for refreshers and for the newcomers to the board.

some of this may be outdated, but its still good stuff nonetheless

This is still useful, more grabs (DThrow & FThrow please)

 

[KRiMz0N]

i always bthrew (**** i just realized that i always used throwed) because it was reflexive

good thing it's bump all of steels old threads day because shiiit

 

[ViCTORiOUSViC]

useful stuff

 

[Conspiricy]

I wish marth was as good in Brawl as he was in Melee. =(

I cried when I found out his range got nerfed.

 

[Atria]

I understand that Marth's B-throw is a really bad move in general, however I THINK it could have 1 use. You know how Marth can use his F-throw to combo into a tippered FSmash at low percentages right? Well, when I try to do so on characters who have a weight like Jigglypuff, I can't seem to hit them with the FSmash at all because Marth throws them too far due to their weight, even when they are at 0% damage. However when I B-throw extremely light characters, I can tipper an FSmash on them. Would that improve the usefulness of Marth's B-throw or can you just do that with D-throw? I can't test this because my Wii is broken. Sorry...

Also, what do people mean by the term 'conditioning'?

 

[ZHMT]

I understand that Marth's B-throw is a really bad move in general, however I THINK it could have 1 use. You know how Marth can use his F-throw to combo into a tippered FSmash at low percentages right? Well, when I try to do so on characters who have a weight like Jigglypuff, I can't seem to hit them with the FSmash at all because Marth throws them too far due to their weight, even when they are at 0% damage. However when I B-throw extremely light characters, I can tipper an FSmash on them. Would that improve the usefulness of Marth's B-throw or can you just do that with D-throw? I can't test this because my Wii is broken. Sorry...

Also, what do people mean by the term 'conditioning'?

Backthrow has so much animation after the throw compared to downthrow, which keeps you from following up. Im not sure on the actual amount of frames but its bad. fthrow stutter stepped is better. Backthrow is arguably Marth's worst move.

Also: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7118236&postcount=3122

 

[Atria]

Backthrow has so much animation after the throw compared to downthrow, which keeps you from following up. Im not sure on the actual amount of frames but its bad. fthrow stutter stepped is better. Backthrow is arguably Marth's worst move.

Also: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=7118236&postcount=3122

Oh okay thanks. Oh, I didn't know that you had to stutter step in order to get the lighter characters. Thanks for that. Well, I did do that in training mode so maybe the B-throw to FSmash is actually escapable against mobile opponents then.

 

[Shaya]

Zelda Master Timmy, don't be spreading LIES!

Marth's backthrow is better than his down throw on all the characters of lowish weight [Like those below Mario] (based on advantage) from 20%ish (the percent dthrow loses its major advantage) to about 70% (when bthrow loses its advantage then its really ****).

i.e. Marth's dthrow at 0% will give you 9 frames of advantage on Metaknight; after 20% it will give you -8 frames of advantage.
From 0% to 70%, Marth's back throw will give you -4 advantage; meaning it is a "better" throw than dthrow during these percents.

Either way, Marth should never be doing anything but fthrow after dthrow goes 'stale'. Worst disadvantage Marth gets is -7 on BOWSER, with a constant 2 frame advantage on Jigglypuff.
(When the fthrow is "fresh" (0-8%ish) the advantage ranges from +19 [Jiggles] to +10 [Bowser])

 

[Albert.]

Either way, Marth should never be doing anything but fthrow after dthrow goes 'stale'. Worst disadvantage Marth gets is -7 on BOWSER, with a constant 2 frame advantage on Jigglypuff.
(When the fthrow is "fresh" (0-8%ish) the advantage ranges from +19 [Jiggles] to +10 [Bowser])

AHH too many numbers. >_<

 

[ZHMT]

So your saying from 20-70% backthrow is better then dthrow, which may be true.

I just feel that no matter how much stun they are in, its a slower throw. They have more time to react to it. Fthrow is faster and surves almost the same purpose imo. Uthrow at 60% on light characters sets up PERFECTLY to juggle. Maybe its just me but whenever I bthrow, I get nothing out of it but 4%.

 

[Shaya]

In other words

CHOICE OF THROW "The Rules":

0-8%: Forward throw
8-20%: Down throw
20%+: Forward throw
20%-70% (IF YOU WANT THEM TO GO BACKWARDS): Back throw
70%+ (IF YOU WANT THEM TO GO BACKWARDS): Down Throw

By the way, backthrow is also better than dthrow for heavy characters as well (except for Donkey Kong). The characters who are around Yoshi's weight and higher are better for back throw, the mid characters are BAD for back throw, the characters around Diddy's wait and lower are good for back throw. (Following the above rules).

 

[ZHMT]

In other words

CHOICE OF THROW "The Rules":

0-8%: Forward throw
8-20%: Down throw
20%+: Forward throw
20%-70% (IF YOU WANT THEM TO GO BACKWARDS): Back throw
70%+ (IF YOU WANT THEM TO GO BACKWARDS): Down Throw

By the way, backthrow is also better than dthrow for heavy characters as well (except for Donkey Kong). The characters who are around Yoshi's weight and higher are better for back throw, the mid characters are BAD for back throw, the characters around Diddy's wait and lower are good for back throw. (Following the above rules).

I edited my post because I misread your post xD. But yeah, I get it now. My fault for using backthrow at like 4% rofl.

 

[Atria]

Hmm...Interesting list there Shaya. Hopefully I can remember that for future battles. Also, I've been studying frames recently, what do you mean by things like "-8 frames of advantage." and what is an advantage and disadvantage in terms of frames if you don't mind explaining to me what they are.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

In other words

CHOICE OF THROW "The Rules":

0-8%: Forward throw
8-20%: Down throw
20%+: Forward throw
20%-70% (IF YOU WANT THEM TO GO BACKWARDS): Back throw
70%+ (IF YOU WANT THEM TO GO BACKWARDS): Down Throw

By the way, backthrow is also better than dthrow for heavy characters as well (except for Donkey Kong). The characters who are around Yoshi's weight and higher are better for back throw, the mid characters are BAD for back throw, the characters around Diddy's wait and lower are good for back throw. (Following the above rules).

Do any of the higher percentage throws combo into anything ?

 

[ZHMT]

At high percents, no throws combo into anything. Nothing actually "combos" after like 8% (a few exceptions like Fox). After 70%, you should uthrow and try to juggle. Or fthrow/dthrow them off the stage if your near it.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

At high percents, no throws combo into anything. Nothing actually "combos" after like 8% (a few exceptions like Fox). After 70%, you should uthrow and try to juggle. Or fthrow/dthrow them off the stage if your near it.

You're right I know that.....grrr I must be too tired.

 

[Atria]

By the way, backthrow is also better than dthrow for heavy characters as well (except for Donkey Kong). The characters who are around Yoshi's weight and higher are better for back throw, the mid characters are BAD for back throw, the characters around Diddy's wait and lower are good for back throw.

Why does your opponent's weight matter when it comes to selecting which throw you should use on them as Marth? Also, was it even possible to combo a tippered FSmash by B-throwing extremely light characters in the first place?

 

[Shaya]

Guaranteed combos with Bthrow?

None really...

Even though on heavy characters (bowser, fox), back throw will force them to land on the ground until like 50%, giving you a little bit of a frame advantage.

Unfortunately the distance back throw sends Fox doesn't combo into a dsmash... it almost does though.

Also
Fthrow x2 (0-7%) ->
Dthrow x5 (7-28%) ->
Tipper Fsmash (28-48%)

IS A REAL COMBO THAT FOX CANNOT DI OUT OF/ESCAPE IF EXECUTED PROPERLY.

Probably works on Falco too.

 

[illinialex24]

Thats insane, gotta use that more often

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Guaranteed combos with Bthrow?

None really...

Even though on heavy characters (bowser, fox), back throw will force them to land on the ground until like 50%, giving you a little bit of a frame advantage.

Unfortunately the distance back throw sends Fox doesn't combo into a dsmash... it almost does though.

Also
Fthrow x2 (0-7%) ->
Dthrow x5 (7-28%) ->
Tipper Fsmash (28-48%)

IS A REAL COMBO THAT FOX CANNOT DI OUT OF/ESCAPE IF EXECUTED PROPERLY.

Probably works on Falco too.

What's with this dthrow thing I saw a link that said the max was 10 ten ZMT said the max was two you have five.....which is it?

 

[illinialex24]

What's with this dthrow thing I saw a link that said the max was 10 ten ZMT said the max was two you have five.....which is it?

Well I'm sure it won't be 10 with the tipper F-smash with a proper DI.

 

[AlMoStLeGeNdArY]

Well I'm sure it won't be 10 with the tipper F-smash with a proper DI.

It said it leads to a tipper fsmash I believe or it was a regular fsma**** IDK I'm not really to sure. I'll believe it when I see it considering I haven't seen anyone do this yet i'll just won't believe it LoL.

 

[Shaya]

Do I have to record a video with me voicing frame by frame everything?

At 0%, dthrow does not chaingrab, as Fox lands on the ground TOO EARLY for him not to be able to escape it with a spotdodge (he "feels the ground" around frame 43 at 0%).

After TWO FORWARD THROWS, i.e. SOMEWHERE ABOVE 4% (and in this case 7%), FOX WILL LAND ON THE GROUND FRAME 45, WHERE A SPOT DODGE WON'T COME OUT UNTIL FRAME 49.

Marth's down throw has him free frame 34, with an 8 frame dash grab, you have to start grabbing by frame 40. WHY IT STOPS AT 28%, IS BECAUSE AT THE LEVEL OF DECAY DTHROW HAS AFTER 5 THROWS, HE WILL BE ABLE TO AIR DODGE FRAME 26.

IF YOU HAD dthrow decayed more? Maybe you'd need to start cging him a couple of percent later and it would go longer, maybe not.

EXPLAINATION:
Marth's throws have a damage output increasing at yada yada speed per percent damage.
Marth's throws, once they reach a certain damage (it seems semi-dependant on character... or maybe just Fox got screwed over hard) the THROW you use will have it's PHYSICAL PROPERTIES CHANGED.
The start up throws have larger hit stun, and the trajectory an opponent moves is SET (i.e. no DI). YES, DI DOES NOT CHANGE ANYTHING WITH THE THROWS AT THESE PERCENTS.
The 'second' throws have considerably LESS hit stun and can be DI'D.

Hence with the use of decaying throws in certain ways, the "start up" throws can be extended longer, maintaining the awesome frame advantage they have.
e.g. A fresh fthrow will hit it's "second" part on Bowser at 8%, he will be able to start air dodging at frame 32, leaving you stunned until frame 38. If it was to return it's first part bowser wouldn't be able to airdodge until frame 48 (and will most likely land on the ground during this time, incurring further landing lag penalties).
If for some odd reason, you fthrow was completely decayed (9 times), you could fthrow cg Bowser from 0-18%.
So in a real occasion,
fthrow 1: 0-4%
fthrow 2: 4-7%
fthrow 3: 7-11%
Fthrow 4: Isn't a guaranteed cg.