Marth Q&A-Ask your questions here!!

[Royal]

Marth vs Falco. Not your average scrub tips, please. =)

I know chaingrab, fair for approaching, counter is awsome edgegaurd.

Anything else? And what stages for counterpick and etc. Should I counterpick
with nuetral or stages like poke floats...

Kthx.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Royal, theres a marth approach thread, go read it if you're needing help vs falco. emblem lord wrote it.

 

[Aesir]

Marth vs Falco. Not your average scrub tips, please. =)

I know chaingrab, fair for approaching, counter is awsome edgegaurd.

Anything else? And what stages for counterpick and etc. Should I counterpick
with nuetral or stages like poke floats...

Kthx.

the best counter pick stage against falco..... Mute City.

 

[purekorea]

Question on pivot Chainthrowing. How long can I chain throw if I use pivots when they dont' DI when should I start using utilts?

 

[Aesir]

after 29 you have to start uptilting.

I'm right on this =|

 

[Randizzle]

and i'm going to say you're wrong on this, but it's already been argued to death so best if you leave it to be answered by someone else.

my answer is into the upper 30s.

 

[knightpraetor]

in general use jabs or whatever those hits in grabs are so you can not have to do uptilts during the 29 range..otherwise it's very very difficult..i assume that's what they meant..i know for sure fox can shine at that range...i definitely wouldn't tilt at 29 though..very hard to sweetspot.


anyways, today i have a lot of questions: i'll start with the easy one...people often talk in the marth chaingrab of dashing to one side and fsmashing if they try to stay above you..at what percentage will this tipper? are you supposed to dash away or forwards( i would assume forwards as frames are wasted turning around and the distance is the same) . Anyways, i play with it in training mode but can't get consistent tippers...i was trying in the 50 range..and it looks like the fox could tech beore the fsmash hit there anyways....

so basically i'm wondering when will it tipper..when can you try this technique without having the opponent tech..etc. (of course if i'm wrong and i should be getting tippers before they get down..just say so..i have a lot of trouble playing marth in training mode...clawing means i use c-stick for everything..so it doesn't feel natural when i try to do anything in training..but the 1/4 speed is useful for testing). I have a lot of other combo options if they stay above me..but i notice in videos they seem to take the fsmash a lot..even though it doesn't always tipper..jsut because if it does it leads to an easy kill

ok, second question. So off the edge edgeguarding...the advantages of the fair vs the neutral B? which one has greater knockback? i assume the neutral b in general is better since it lasts longer meaning you can sweep a larger range. anyways, from my own testing it looks like the neutral b works better overall..just more likely to suicide if you're not careful.

in general if they are close to the stage running off and bairing isn't that good of an idea..if you have to run off you should probably use over b..as you can't really fastfall the bair low enough down to be useful. wavedash off backwards to bair seems pretty good though..sweeps more range than just fairing from a direct run off..plus you can't alwys know which way you'll be facing when needing to edgeguard.

anyways, the problem with the fair as i said is that it doesn't seem to hit low enough down...it's ok if you're willing to wait for the opponent to come up..but if you want to tag a fox early before his firefox goes off it looks like over b is much better

 

[Dark Sonic]

Question on pivot Chainthrowing. How long can I chain throw if I use pivots when they dont' DI when should I start using utilts?

You can do it into the mid 30s. Your grab outranges their shine, so even though they can get the shine out it doesn't hit you. They can also double jump, but they don't fast enough to escape your grab range.

 

[ArcNatural]

As for the Fox not DIing and trying to Fsmash them you can just Fsmash for a tipper without actually moving, I think M2k does this. He may just be moving over a slight bit then F-smashing though. You can also upthrow -> dash -> pivoted Fsmash. The way you say your doing it makes it sound like they are almost hitting the floor by the time you get the fsmash out. Either of these methods usually get tipped in the 12:00, 10:00 and 2:00 range depending on what you do.

As for the edgegaurding, if they are under the stage and you don't think they are going to sweetspot you can counter then just fall off and nontip fair them during their upB animation. Other than that I prefer dtilting as its safer than fsmash and if they tech or grab the edge you can react safely.

With your overB vs fair question it depends on who your playing. Most characters will die if you just fair them after their second jump. Even the ones that don't like Fox you can normally fair then upB grab the edge and edgeguard them from there. So overall I think the fair is better for jumping off the stage.

 

[Aesir]

You can do it into the mid 30s. Your grab outranges their shine, so even though they can get the shine out it doesn't hit you. They can also double jump, but they don't fast enough to escape your grab range.

Thats why PC shined m2k at 20% right?

 

[dude225]

wow, i really want to see that. it would be awesome if you could post a link, or the name of the vid. (i just watched all the pound 2 vids, but i couldnt find it...) sorry for the trouble

oh and a question about the up-b out of a shield. it is reversible right? every time i do it, i go for it, but i find it much easier just to dash dance into a reverse up-b then to do one out of a shield.

thanks in advanced. ^_^

 

[JesiahTEG]

basically, its hard to 0-death a spacie. It's technically possible, but i mean its mad hard.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Thats why PC shined m2k at 20% right?

A video would help.

 

[Randizzle]

Yes, a video would help a lot. Because my best guess is that either m2k just made a small mistake in his spacing and missed a grab.

reverse up+b out of shield is possible, you just have to learn the spacing for it. I personally don't use it very much until very high percents.

 

[Aesir]

cause tahts what happened >_> LOLZ

I'm sure every one knows this but 0-death chain grab = hard as **** to do against a good fox. >_>

 

[pockyD]

reverse up-b out of shield has very limited range and so can be pretty difficult to connect with (unless they dash attacked into your shield or something)

you may as well do a regular up-b out of shield; you trade a little knockback for a significant amount of range

 

[dude225]

mmk, thanks for the advice ^_^

p.s. i still want to see that 20% shine

 

[_milktea]

My mistake -_- forget I posted.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUgR0AE1_KA

^It was Taj vs PC XD. Not M2K, my bad Aiser! 1:35.

 

[Emblem Lord]

wtf@ Lil in my thread >.>

 

[Andrew Ott]

Quick question:

In some vids of M2K and others, I see him hit his opponent onto a platform above him, then he wavedashes forwards, turns around and Uairs. Is there an advantage to doing it facing the other way? My guess would be that it makes them fly towards the edge for a spike, but I'm not positive.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I'm fairly certain that you answered your own question.

 

[Randizzle]

Quick question:

In some vids of M2K and others, I see him hit his opponent onto a platform above him, then he wavedashes forwards, turns around and Uairs. Is there an advantage to doing it facing the other way? My guess would be that it makes them fly towards the edge for a spike, but I'm not positive.

interesting, if that really works for getting a spike, then i definitely gotta try that out. Can anyone else verify if this tactic actually works?

 

[Keta]

It works very well. It's quite fun to do.

 

[Emblem Lord]

They could DI away from the edge to avoid that. They will either go the opposite way or just go higher in place. If Marth is facing towards the stage then they will just rise straight up. If he is facing towards the edge then they will fly towards the stage.

 

[knightpraetor]

it's pivoting...that's why it wasn't working..was wondering about that..i only manage a pivot about 30% of the time when i try atm..one of the tech skills in the game i haven't gotten down yet..i hope to have it down by the end of the month though..i don't play mjuch though with no one around


as for the one where they are directly above you..can you link a vid? i'm curious at what damage and if i need to step slightly to the side..i'll play with it though

so basically for now since i can't pivot, my best options at 50 are to continue juggle comboes


so basically marth's upair can hit them behind him..i did not know that..i thought that when that happened it was just my opponent's di

 

[_milktea]

Hi Emblem Lord .

 

[dude225]

that video kinda stunned me for a second, but i think i got it. taj just went for the grab too late... but really i thought fox was stunned until he hit the ground at those low percentages :/

ty for vid :D

 

[knightpraetor]

so many of my questions never get many comments

anyways, another question...you shield fox's shine, he JC grabs, do you have time to spotdodge...just wondering..i don't get to play any foxes

 

[whatwhatwhatwhatwhat]

Quick chaingrab question:

Why does M2K not do the grab knee when Fox/Falco are below 20%? My guess is that it's easier to keep them in the chain like that, but I never had a problem with using the grab attack at that low a percentage.

Video example:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nz4RcXpjOVk

Wait til M2K gets a grab in. It's not a long wait. >_>

 

[Randizzle]

you answered your own question =)
if they try to struggle at low percents, they're likely to succeed in getting out of your grab. It's usually safer to just keep throwing. However, if you notice your opponent isn't struggling, feel free to hit him a bit before you throw. I usually hit them a bit until i hear them mashing the control stick at later percents.

knightpraetor, I'm under the impression that you do have enough time since i believe spot dodging starts up quicker than the grab. But fox's shine might just just enough sheild stun to prevent you from spotoding that quickly if he jc grabs imediately. I'm pretty curious of the answer to this as well.

 

[Andrew Ott]

Knight here, this is from Pound 2, at the very end M2K (the Marth) uses it on the Fox at 2:44.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHAIPp9m-b4

 

[Salaad]

I'm having some trouble with spacing. Basically if I try an aerial on my friend he just rolls out half the time. any tips? xD

 

[Sensei]

Chase him and grab or try to hit him again? xP If you're fast enough you can punish a roll.

 

[Salaad]

Lol, ok. I love your sig btw. xD

 

[Sensei]

lol thx, i use pantene.

*flips hair*

 

[Emblem Lord]

lolz. Of course you can spot dodge before Fox grabs when he JC's his shine. The reason it works though is because alot of Foxes just don't do it, so you don't expect it.

 

[dude225]

do u have any advice for breaking bad habits? just for example, about 90% of the time i shield grab just because i was already shielding, even tho i dont mean to. its just habit.

a lot of the time i know i should go for an up-b or a jump then aerial, or even a WD backwards then f-smash.

i know this question is hard to answer, but yeah... how do u break bad habits of spamming moves?

 

[6th Sense]

Just play against some comps and try not grabbing at all. You'll easily see other options.

 

[knightpraetor]

awesome, i always thought it ought to be spot dodgeable, but i'm lazy and rarely correct my friend's mistakes...but lately i've realized i need to get better competition if i'm going to improve so i'm trying to think of things that they can do...like literally i swear looking back that my friend never di's shine to grab on marth.

still, i assume this means you can grab after you spot dodge? or will they then have time to spotdodge or shine..wondering how much lag fox/falco have with their grab..it's not much.

the situation i'm thinking of is techchase with sheik, person techs in place, planning to shine, jc grab,, you shield, spotdodge, grab..will it tag them or will they be able to spotdodge, roll, shine, etc

 

[ArcNatural]

For Dude225

A nice way to break bad habits is to work on certain tactics in friendlies. Certain stocks just work on shielding to wavedash back f-smash and be deliberate. Need to get comfortable with pivot fsmash? Just do it alot in friendlies. Since you shield grab alot. I recommend whenever you play to always shield to sh aerial or wavedash for a while, even if a grab is a better choice. After a few days you should be comfortable enough to be able to add those tactics on instinct rather than forcing yourself to do them.