Marth Q&A-Ask your questions here!!

[Gian]

Smash DI is done during the frames of the hit, some moves like Samus' fully charged shot have something around 18 frames where you can smash DI in. Other moves have shorter frames to smash DI. So smash DI is done right when you are hit, with the control stick. And yes you should do it all the time, regardless of if you need it or not AS LONG AS you plan on edgeteching at that time. .

and still i should Automatic DI right? With the c-stick while i smash DI with control stick.????

 

[ArcNatural]

As long as you remember that you need to upB before you can use the C-stick to ASDI (Or else you will just fair and fall to your death before upBing). Personally though I been able to smash DI ledgetech most attacks with the control stick alone. But for the extra smidge of power the c-stick will do it.

 

[knightpraetor]

you only need to use the control stick to edgetech. ASDI occurs from either the control stick or the c-stick with the c-stick having priority..so basically..to maximize your edgeteching you upb then hit L a few frames before the top....smash DI as you react to getting hit (it's not so much reaction time as anticipation i've concluded), then keep holding the stick in the right direction in order to get the ASDI at the end. Also you can get an extra input if you wanna try fancy by doing an arc with the control stick from like 4oclock to 2 oclock or whatnot..have to bring it back down in time to 3oclock i think or you end up walljumping.

still no answer to my question though

 

[Gian]

So i should't use c-stick until high dmg?

 

[pockyD]

it couldn't hurt but usually it won't affect you by much unless you barely survive or are going for the tech

also anyone can light-shield edgehog marth; shields work the same for everyone

except maybe game-and-watch lol

 

[ArcNatural]

PockyD you are mistaken, while you can still lightshield drop from Marth's UpB as Marth. If you sweetspot with Marth the UpB Marth will grab the ledge first. Try it if you don't believe me. I've done this too many times for it to be luck. Fast fallers (and characters that fall faster than Marth does) can grab the ledge first since they fall faster than he does. So in my experience not sweetspotted Marth V. Marth works, sweetspotted doesn't work.

 

[pockyD]

you could always time a fast-fall in there though (the same way some people fast fall their wavedash->edgehogs)

not necessarily worth the effort but it's out there

 

[Emblem Lord]

pockyD is incorrect. The fast fall won't happen quick enough for Marth to grab the ledge. The sweetspotting Marth will grab the ledge safely.

 

[pockyD]

i could've sworn i've seen it done before

i guess it maybe wasn't a 'perfect' sweetspot

 

[FrostByte]

I'm assuming the chacter trying to lightshield edgehog fast falls automatically anyway?

 

[balladechina212]

Yeah, I thought if you held the shield correctly you would fastfall to the edge. So it only doesn't work if they have "perfect" sweetspots?

 

[ArcNatural]

Yes, after testing this the UpBing Marth needs to be extremely close to a perfect sweetspot to not get light shield edgehogged. I'm not saying it doesn't work, but if a Marth recovering observes the light shield and sweetspots you won't get him with it.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Thanks emblem lord, I thought I see you say that but wasn't 100% sure.

 

[Dark Sonic]

What characters does the light shield edgehog work with? Until now I was under the impression that it only works with Fox, Falco, and Captain Falcon because they need to fall to the ledge between when Marth's sword reaches them and Marth reaching the ledge.

 

[pockyD]

if it doesn't work, then there's a nasty mindgame in there if you can control your wd out of shield on the edge well enough to grab the edge and not sd o_o

 

[Emblem Lord]

It works with any non-floaty character pretty much.

 

[Sensei]

My Marth is amazing pretty much. I've developed some new tactics with him. I challenge you, Emblem Lord, to a Marth Duel! If not, thats cool, no biggie.

 

[Emblem Lord]

You challenge me to a Marth ditto? Like the ones we have every 3 or 4 days?

Sure, why not. >_>

 

[FrostByte]

If Marth sweetspots the edge almost perfectly, Falcon won't be able to edgehog him. I know because it's happened to be before, and I fell fast like a fast faller; to my doom.

 

[Nike.]

Okay, I gots a question *raises hand*:

during a (I keep forgettng the abbreviation) 2 f-air short hop, is there enough time to make the second f-air a shield breaker. I wanna see if it'll suprise someone who thinks they can shield grab you because you screwed up at spacing.

 

[FrostByte]

They'll most probably grab you out of the attack's startup lag.

 

[knightpraetor]

seems my old n00bish question wasn't answer..i'll test it myself sometimes...anyways, new question...fox's shine to upsmash combo..is it a true combo on marth? or is the timing really tight? because oftentimes i see a fox ends up upsmashing a shield instead..though the knockback prevents a grab ( see here 1:39 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Ca8gR6NqVc&mode=related&search=)

did the fox mess up or what? usually i get my upsmash..but i was curious...the shine's damage isn't affected by damage so it can't be that

question 2: shieldbreaker's hitbox..it hits more above you than the fair right? but even so it's almost always better to use the fair or upair instead right? except off stage charging it etc...or egdeguarding if you don't think it likely to tipper the fox....actually when do you use the shieldbreaker to edgeguard..i don't really use it..though i probably should.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Shieldbreaker is usually used when you want to jump off the stage for some aggressive edgeguarding.

And Fox has no true shine combos on Marth except when there is a wall present. Marth slides too far, even when Marth doesn't DI the shine. Marth has enough time to spot dodge or shield if the Fox is slow. If Marth DOES DI the shine away, then he will have enough time to respond with pretty much w/e he wants if Fox tries to chase him down.

 

[ArcNatural]

I have a question on general tech chase theory with Marth. For some reason I tech chase much better with shiek,falcon, fox, dr. mario, etc. than I do with my main Marth! I don't really understand it and I really need to improve my game in tech chase knowledge.

I basically want to know how you would set up if:

A: you do a dthrow so that the other play is going to land on the edge of the stage (not hanging on edge). Do you get in Fsmash range? Do a stall?

B. They are on the ground near you. How do you approach, stand, and what options do you use for various techs? This can be pretty general, but I would like to have a strong sense of what I should be looking for and best options for various techs.

This may be too general but I'm basically looking for a strong tech chase game with Marth. I just find myself not following up as well as I could be sometimes.

 

[balladechina212]

Wait, Emblem Lord, are you saying that Marth can get out of the drillshine --> wavedash --> grab "combo?" So if I DI the shine away, I can avoid getting grabbed?

 

[Emblem Lord]

You could get out of it even if you didn't DI. Just spot dodge. Most likely Fox will shine again after he misses the grab and then you can just DI away from that second shine.

Make sure to buffer the spot dodge.

I thought this was common knowledge. >_>

 

[Aesir]

^ I actually thought drill kick > shine > grab was the only true shine combo he had on marth. LOL

so you can escape it? ****, gotta step it up =[

 

[Emblem Lord]

If Marth DI's away then Fox can't do anything at all as a follow up. If he tries Marth can hit him first and do w/e.

I suppose he could grab Fox too, although I haven't tried it. I usually DI away and then I u-tilt to combo or grab.

 

[balladechina212]

So did I, and I've actually tried to buffer the spot dodge with DIing away. Hasn't worked.

 

[Emblem Lord]

It works. Trust me. Make sure you are holding away when you expect to get shined.

It definitely works if Marth DI's away.

 

[purekorea]

Does anyone know the frames of hitlag for marth's fsmash (tipped and non tipped)?

 

[Salaad]

Any tips on Double Fairs?

I'm trying it in training. =)

 

[Randizzle]

short hop, foward air, then foward air again. just keep practicing. learn the timing. Trying using Z if A doesn't work for you. Eventually, you'll want to learn to do it with c-stick. There's nothing to this other than lots of practice.

 

[knightpraetor]

well i knew i could do it if i diied the shine..i most definitely did not realize i had time to spot dodge even without di (to be fair i am the only decent fox player in my group..my space animal friend is good with falco but his fox is no longer on par with mine..i did get to play a decent fox at a recent tourney though)

...from what i heard on teh fox forums i thought that wasn't true.. they said that the hit stun continues even though marth is out of range..so the fox has time to run up and grab..maybe it's just really close timing so that only a frame perfect wavedash +dash grab would catch marth in time? or maybe i just heard the fox people wrong.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Yeah, they have to be perfect with the wavedash outta shine and thier timing has to be spot on. But with DI there is nothing Fox can do and it's so easy to tell when Fox is going to shine of you just pay attention.

Without DI they could still catch you, but it's hard. With DI though Marth can't be touched.

Fox has no true combos on Marth really without walls. And even then you could just wall tech the up smash after a wallshine infinite. His other combos on Marth are usually going to be for small damage around 30% or so. Marth can easily do upwards of 70% to death combos on Fox.

So in terms of combos, Marth has it over Fox in this match-up. No contest.

 

[Aesir]

since you can ledge tech anything that gives you hit stun, is it possible to tech the shine? when shine spiked that is.

like lets say fox is at low damage, and ccs you when you're recovering your sweet spotting is a bit off and he shines cause he's a ******, could you possible tech it? o_O

 

[Emblem Lord]

I know Falco can and other characters that normally get knocked down on hit, but no I don't think Marth can tech it because he doesn't recieve "hard" knockback from the shine. He gets just enough to get pushed back, but he doesn't get slammed away like Falco does.

 

[Velox]

Yes, believe it or not, you can edge tech shines with Marth.

Watch this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ExeiHCng7Ug

Somewhere towards the end Svampen edge techs a shine.

 

[Aesir]

^ thats pal, in pal marth falls from the shine, in the north american version he doesn't he slides across.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Aesir is correct.