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Marth Q&A-Ask your questions here!!

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Tero.

Tero.

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elvenarrow3000 said:
How is dtilt faster than fair? Dtilt comes out on frame seven, fair comes out on frame four...
Click to expand...
To use fair you have to be in the air, which means you have to jump, which also has some startup lag (don't know how much, but i can test it).
 
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IrArby

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4 or 5 frames of startup lag before leaving the ground (I think 5 but IDK4SHO).

Dtilt keeps you ground and easily lets you CCrape or CC and tech a Knee. Marth gets the **** comboed out of him in the air so pitting your ground game against his is better I think. Nairs get Raptored Boosted and Fairs have pre/post lag that a quick Falcon can capitalize on or at least force you to make a quick Rock, Paper, Scissor type decision upon landing.
 
elvenarrow3000

elvenarrow3000

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But you could just... keep jumping and not fair until you needed to. I still feel like you more options in the air than on the ground, as long as you don't randomly whiff stuff. Plus, just because you're on the ground doesn't mean Falcon will be.

It's five frames, by the way.
 
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IrArby

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But where you will be is much more predictable once you jump. Obviously you can Fair to cover yourself but you're still forced to do something immediately upon landing to avoid w/e Falcon throws at you. Even if you waveland theres what 10 frames where you can't do anything but slide. I'm not saying Marth's ground game is completely solid against Falcon since he's faster than you no matter what. IDK mixups and mindgames will outwiegh frame data more often than not.
 
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JonaDiaper

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nah it *****, you just gotta mix up both, meaning sh fair gayness and ground game. from a dtilt you can probly get a grab off, not to mention it ***** his recovery.

you shouldnt be just sticking to either ground or air game. it should definitely be both mixed up very well
 
elvenarrow3000

elvenarrow3000

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You'd have to hit with the dtilt though, which seems iffy at best against a dash dancing Falcon who can fly around with aerials.
 
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JonaDiaper

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well thats true...i still wouldnt leave it out tho.. once you get a grab and f throw them, d tilt gay them, or like if your in a situation when theyre shielding and your right in front of them..d tilt gay...or the trick where you downthrow them near towards the edge and you dilt if they tech in place or back towards off the edge and then you turn around to grab if they tech rolled away from the edge....
 
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JonaDiaper

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challenging? lol it guess its about even..

fox is gay...all falcon has to do is have stage control and be in the center of the stage most of the time and he can win. laser camping falcon doesnt do crap since falcon wont die from a upsmash at such a gay percent. and weak knee double jump uair rapeessss fox and it looks sexaaayy
 
elvenarrow3000

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I dunno, I hear it's uneven from Ken and Mew2King and it feels kinda uneven. I like it though, it's a lot of fun.

I don't think laser camping gives Fox the advantage... it's more the combos that Fox can do, the waveshines, the gimp kills, his difficulty in being combo'd by Falcon and the juggles that he can do that win it for him. Oh, and that Fox outprioritizes a lot of what Falcon can do.
 
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JonaDiaper

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=O trouble being combo'd by falcon????? are you insane?

a few tech chases and its over for fox.

may i refer you to ss vs tang 2.3 on youtube since i cant seem to open it from my favorites?
 
JBM falcon08

JBM falcon08

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its not even for marth.

its at least 55/45 falcon i'd say.

falcon is too quick, you have to make your moves count against him cuz he can really punish you easily with up air combos if he gets the chance.
 
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IrArby

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Yea what elvenarrow3000 said, thats why tech chases are in every Falcon Combo cause its still difficult to put a few together succesfully. Its not as easy fullproof as some people make it. Fox's Nair makes playing Falcon difficult not to mention the ease at which Fox can shine combo and techchase him.
 
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HowdYdoo

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How do I get around Sheik tilts? Specifically, I try to space Sheik out with fairs, but the tilts always seem to hit me first =.= And general tips plz=) I hate/suck at this match-up. I was told that the only way to beat Sheik was to learn how to play Fox, but I'm even worse at playing spacies >>
 
elvenarrow3000

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Well then you're not spacing yourself out correctly, or being too obvious in your approach. Dash dance before you commit and then make sure you're aiming for the tip of your sword.

General tips... combo into grabs and try to get Sheik off the stage so you can edgeguard her. Try not to get grabbed, and be close enough at all times so that needles aren't an option for her. Keep her in the air, if possible and for God's sake, learn to DI out of combos so you don't take a ridiculous amount of damage from every tilt.
 
Europhoria

Europhoria

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CC the **** out of Sheik. Those tilts are all just free grabs waiting to happen as long as you're under like 65-70%. Weak d-tilt is a bit higher then that ;)
 
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HowdYdoo

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lol Michael, that's what you said on monday (i'm the asian guy with the long hair that got owned by the sheik >>) , but you didn't tell me about the dtilt part. Is it a good move to sheild the tilt then jump out of shield and dair them? I tried it today and it worked a few times, is there something that can follow it up or am I just not L-cancelling it properly cuz I don't seem to be able to combo sheik from there.

What about recovery? When I tried to get back from on top I got a fair in the face, and when I try to wait then up-b, they would ledge hop bair me = /

What maps are good counter picks against sheiks? All I know is that they're good on BF
 
elvenarrow3000

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I don't really think it's a good idea to dair out of shield... reason being is that you're going to have to start it really early, so you're going to have all that fall time with the laggiest aerial. You can grab the dtilt, I think, just not a crouching Sheik. You could try a fair out of shield instead, or, really, just wavedash out of shield and respace. Dair I would do only if you know that it's going to pop them up, or you'll probably get grabbed or otherwise punished.

Space yourself out so you don't get fair'd. You don't have to be that close to the stage, just close enough so that you can either grab the ledge or land on the stage if the person chooses the edgehog. You could also cover your recovery with your own fair. Also, if Sheik does try to go out and fair you a lot, you can save your jump but be within range to bait the fair, then fastfall under her fair then double jump bair to knock her out further and Dolphin Slash to recover.

Ledgehop bairs suck. You can try to bair a reaction first with the Dancing Blade, or you can hug the stage with the Dolphin Slash to see if you can avoid it or tech it.

Against Sheik... I dunno, you can never go wrong with Yoshi's Story. Mute City is also a pretty good anti-Sheik choice because it makes it easy for you to edgeguard her. You could try Fountain of Dreams too to use the platforms to maybe break up her grab combos a little, but watch for the tech chases. It's all about taste and the specific Sheik.

You should really invest in a Fox or Falco. Probably Fox. Or really, Sheik, so you can go for the ditto.
 
Europhoria

Europhoria

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The secret about Sheik is if she CCs/camps like hell only 3 chars have a chance in hell against her (Sheik, Fox, Falco). With Marth the best you can do is to have a strong CC/grab game to take away her small weak super lagless moves that come out instantly and lead to doom (tilts, weak aerials, jabs). This forces her to play a more grab/needle/strong aerial based gameplay. This Sheik has some lag to work with and with good WD out of shield you can deal with her needles a bit better.

If you can land a d-air out of shield, do it. It's ****. The amount of **** that follows is unbelievable. If they're crouching at any % and it hits, that's EVEN BETTER. That being said it is hard to land a d-air out of shield/d-air on stage in general against good players and if you mess up... you take it up the ***.

When you're recovering... well against a good Sheik you're dead. However your best bet is if you're going high to air dodge if you see them coming at you with a move. Generally going low is better, wait out and avoid the b-air or edgehog.

CP stages... Sheik likes teh platforms. She can chase you and **** you hard if she has them. Where as because of her CC game/Marth's reliance on u-air juggles, platforms make it really easy for Sheik to prolong her life and avoid damage/bad scenarios that you can put her in. That being said, go to Final Destination. Mute City is also very sexual because once she's off the ledge you can edgeguard her a lot easier (about as well as she edgeguards you). A lot of Marths like small stages but... I think Sheik bends Marth over and shoves needles up his *** on those stages.

Edgeguarding Sheik... man >_> So b-air is good (either from the ledge or just jumping out from the stage) if you can catch them out of their jump with it. Otherwise take the ledge and force them onto the stage. When doing that, if they're under 50 don't even both for an f-smash >_> They won't take... any knockback honestly if they understand DI.

tl;dr... Marth can't beat a good Sheik. Learn one of the three following characters to deal with this: Sheik, Fox, Falco
 
elvenarrow3000

elvenarrow3000

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You can also hit careless Sheiks out of their Vanish. Just nail 'em before they go horizontal (frame eighteen, I believe) and you're good to go.
 
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