Marth Q&A-Ask your questions here!!

[brickman]

dair is a pretty useful move when mixing it up in tech punishing on spacies. mid percent dair them into a utilt grab fsmash combo. done and done.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

i think its just easier because we're all used to going for a ken combo

 

[Heart Break Kid]

The most important thing I can think of atm is when a spacie Dash attacks your sheild, sometimes even I forget but it still looks like there in front of you and you can still sheild grab them but for some reason they end up slightly past your sheild. I think the Dair out of Shield is the only thing you can do to punish them. I dnt know if that's been said already because I haven't read many posts in this thread.

The same thing can be applied if a Sheik Dash attacks past your sheild but I cnt remeber that happening that often compared to space animals.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Yeah, that works pretty well. Generally if I catch on that people are trying to dash attack past my shield, I just light shield so I get pushed along with the dash attack, and grab 'em at the end.

 

[Clone Z]

I know Falcon is probably Marth's worst matchup. Any tips against him, especially if he's playing defensively?

 

[DtJ Jungle]

go falco

 

[MexicanBJ]

way to answer his q jungle.

anyway, hope he rips like meatsauce and di well.

 

[Heart Break Kid]

Well I think most people would agree in saying that Marth's worst matchup is vs Sheik. I still do think Falcon has the advantage on Marth though, not by much but probably 55/45 in Falcons favor.

DI'ing well is a must when fighting falcon. Most people like to DI towards the stage to avoid getting knocked off easily but keep in mind if you do this while getting comboed by a falcon your just going to end up in a combo video later on. I think it's a good idea to switch up DI.

At low percentages IIRC you can just CC falcons nair into a grab. But playing defensivly for a Falcon, you mean like DD camping you? I mean neither of you have projectiles so you can DD camp just as easily. But if you have to appraoch know that Marth spaces very well so try to control it. Like if the Falcon is camping the ledge I feel like Marths Dash attack could probably be one of the safest ways to approach, someone correct me if im wrong though.

Lol I feel like Falcons are pretty agressive so if you're being really gay and camping the ledge then eventually they'll have to approach right? lol But from there like if they approach with nairs(most likely) like I said CC, or even up tilt is a decent option, jabbing them can often stop them in place. And also know that Marths fair beast the knee if spaced properly. But as for approaching I mean I like Dash attack or fair. I dnt like the nair because I'm pretty sure it just trades hits with Falcons moves.

Marth has the adavntage off stage vs Falcon(edgeguarding) and Falcon has it on stage. Marths like M2K and Cactuar just dnt let Falcon get back on the stage once off.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Yeah, going off of what Heart Break Kid said, Falcon generally does have to be pretty aggressive. He's got a really good dash dance too, but don't get intimidated. Marth's fair should be able to beat out anything that Falcon has. As far as DI'ing out of combos goes, I believe you can DI up to get out of the nair and away to get out of the uair. Knee, obviously, you're going to DI straight up.

Grabs are pretty key in this match up. You can chaingrab him for a while with the uthrow after about twenty percent or so provided they don't know how to break out of it. Heck, I don't even know how to break out of it, but I don't play Falcon. At about sixty, you can look for the uthrow fsmash tipper. If he grabs you, make sure you DI so he doesn't do any of the dthrow chaingrab stuff. At eighty or ninety, you should expect the dthrow to knee, which I think is unavoidable, as long as the Falcon doesn't mess up.

Yeah, approach with the fair or grab... or fair into grab. That works too. I dunno about the dash attack... seems risky to me. I guess if you have good reaction time, you could run him down into a corner and do it? I dunno, seems like you'd use it sparingly. Nair does seem to trade with Falcon's nair and he'll probably recover before you do, so try to avoid using it.

When I play Falcons, I try to avoid standing in the center of the stage. Try not to stand all the way at the ledge, because that limits your options, but don't stand far enough away from the edge so that the Falcon can just randomly hammer at your shield in passing with whatever aerial he chooses.

A lot of Falcons seem to jab jab grab instead of just jab grab. Not sure why. Anyway, that's good for you, because you can try to DI/buffer a spot dodge to escape the grab. If he gentlemans, he's probably going to be on the move, so watch for that. Watch for the off the stage soft knee to uair too... that's pretty common.

 

[Ndot]

Dash attack is good against DD camping, cause of how far your attack goes, but don't miss or you get punished. Once you hit him you can try for tech chasing or w/e.

 

[Clone Z]

Wait, Marth can CG Falcon? I do alot Fair or Nair->grabs anyways; I just didn't know how to follow up cuz Falcon falls weird.

So I basically play defensive, fair alot, and keep him off the stage.

Now I need help with Marth dittos. For damage, I try to uthrow->utilt a number of times, but at higher percents, they just DI and I can't follow up. Also, is it me or is Marth really that good at edgeguarding?

 

[JBM falcon08]

Marth cannot ct falcon, falcon can jump out of it the only reason why it would occur is if the falcon were predicting an utilt and didn't waste his jump.

 

[Ndot]

Marth is basically the best at edgeguarding lol. Uthrow to utilt if the person di's right and is fast enough they can jump out of it. If they do this, use this to your advantage as after they jump away, proceed to combo and kill him. Other stuff vs marth, space yourself obviously, dtilt, and grab lots just to start with. DD a lot for spacing, wavedash out of shield after u block fsmashes, dair out of shield, and dash attack is really good in marth ditto.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Dunno, a lot of chain grabs work on people who don't know that it shouldn't work. So whatever, it's just free damage if it works, no loss if it doesn't =P

I generally stop uthrowing non fastfallers after forty, because it tends to not really lead into that much anymore. Also, try not to utilt combo too much. Marth has a harder time killing at higher percentages, so you want to be efficient in killing. Try combo'ing with fairs instead, which transition much more easily into an fsmash or dair finisher.

Utilt generally just hits them until they go too high, and then that's the end of the combo, and you have to chase them around to juggle them for relatively low damage and almost no kill potential.

 

[Clone Z]

So stop utilt, use fair at higher percents...

 

[DtJ Jungle]

fair *****.

 

[I.B]

Use n-air.

 

[RaynEX]

don't dtilt on-stage vs. Falcon. It has enough lag for Falcon to punish you brutally if you miss. Vs. Falcon limit dtilt to edge-guarding. Use jabs to keep him grounded and stuff his aerial approaches/cover yourself if you miss aerials.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

nair doesnt have as mcuh range as fair does it?

i mean i sometimes nair spam with marth on accident :/ but for alot of purposes fair is better/equal to nair :/

 

[Clone Z]

So vs. Falcon:

-fair to counter his aerials
-Don't dilt unless edgeguarding
-Fair or sometimes nair->grab if I wanna approach
-uthrow->fsmash at 60%
-Jab?
-Play the ledge game
-fair fair fair

Still don't know what to do vs. him at the low %'s.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

uhh i dthrow --> techchase and just kinda keep playing that game until i can figure out what to do after that...dunno im pretty bad at it..its all about the grabs at low percentages

im me. we'll talk.

 

[KevinM]

Or you do the wonderful D-throw, D-tilt edge trick like a gigantic meanie.

 

[Europhoria]

D-tilt vs. Falcon on stage is good, it trains them to jump a lot.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

yes yes htat always works too

 

[IrArby]

I just posted this in Cactuar's thread but it seems to be more inactive at the moment so I'll post my question here for any good Marths who might be willing to take a stab at this.

My question is this: Which do you find to be more crucial to your Marth gameplay Wavedashing or Dashing/DashDancing/all various stuff you can do with dashing minus wavedashing? It sounds kinda stupid since the obvious answer is both but hear me out. Within the last month I've broken in my controller and practiced sufficently to Perfect Wavedash when I want (most of the time ofcourse). I then became overly involved in PWDing all the time which was getting me killed by trying to do it too much. So, I started trying to throw in Cactus Dashing type stuff like Wavedash towards and opponent, do a tiny dash back and bait something to grab them or I'd run towards them, wavedash back, Cactus dash forwards, pause and Dashattack which boosts you extra distance (quite an unexpected distance actually).

Still, in all of this I'd find myself trying to find the comfortable happy medium between not DD and not WD too much. As I said a good Marth needs both but which do you use more often or at least for what things do you use them. If anyone else has had a problem with DDing or WDing too much your words of wisdom are also appreciated.

Lastly, does anyone know which of the two will get you moving faster after landing from an aerial? Whats the difference, and does that difference matter? Thanks in advance for any answers or just for reading this overly long and possibly pointless post.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Europhobia's being facetious, don't actually dtilt on stage. You'll almost never hit them, and you'll just eat an aerial.

At low percentages, just aerial to grab and tech chase for a while until you feel you can combo them. Tech chasing Falcon isn't too hard.

Dash dancing is definitely more useful than wavedashing in terms of movement, in my opinion, at least. When you start pushing yourself to be faster and faster, you really feel the fifteen frames of lag on the wavedash. Unless you're already in the run animation, I would almost always suggest that you dash dance.

When you're trying to bait things, you want to have every frame possible to punish, and the wavedash is really too slow for that kinda thing. It also gives you weird momentum so you can't immediately dash back in, which hurts a lot. I generally only wavedash when I want to mess with spacing and want to land like an fsmash or jab or something like that, that I wouldn't be able to do out of a dash dance because I'm too lazy to learn to pivot.

Dashing should also get you moving faster, because that's immediate whereas wavedashing takes at least the five jump frames to get you moving anywhere.

Hope I hit all the points. I dunno, take it with a grain of salt, that's just what I think.

 

[Tero.]

Still don't know what to do vs. him at the low %'s.

tech chase.

 

[JBM falcon08]

no.

elven dtilt is great vs cfalcon, almost automatic grab if you hit them at low percents.

actually, it is a auto-grab oppurtunity if you hit them and most of the time falcons just dash dance a ton so that way when you approach with dtilt it will be harder for them to expect the range of that move.

 

[Clone Z]

I gotta work on techchasing after dthrow then.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

yup yup bud

 

[elvenarrow3000]

It's not that different from the spacing of Marth's other moves, and it's definitely avoidable through a shffl'd dair or a nair or a uair, none of which I really want to get hit by. Fairs can go into grabs too, so it seems like a much better idea to use that.

 

[Tero.]

Fairs can go into grabs too, so it seems like a much better idea to use that.

I seccond that.
Also Falcon is a lot about shffling, so they probably gonna jump over your dtilt and hit you.
Dtilt is not bad in that matchup, but its not the key for winning either.

 

[JBM falcon08]

Fairs are too noticeable, along with any aerial, tilts come out much faster and less predictable. thats just me though, anything works but approaching with nair cuz if the falcon sees it coming or reacts he will just raptor boost, trade hits, or not even get hit at all.

 

[ComboTurtle]

upthrow -> dtilt at low % can be fun and then uthrow tech chase

 

[Tero.]

upthrow -> dtilt at low % can be fun and then uthrow tech chase

lolwut im gonna try that today oO

 

[Falcinho]

Cactuar does that in some old vids vs Scar

 

[IrArby]

Yea I remember him saying he usually prefers it over Fthrow so he can tech ****.

 

[I.B]

The u-throw to uair combos are pretty **** too, lol. What's good about U-throw is it gives you alot of options.

 

[brickman]

The u-throw to uair combos are pretty **** too, lol. What's good about U-throw is it gives you alot of options.

best throw is best. I can't think of a better throw to set up combos than u throw. You can get lucky with down and forward if you tech chase them correctly, but u throw just makes thing simple.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

well like against Falcon...dthrow is better at low %...but yeah uthrow = raep.