Marth Q&A-Ask your questions here!!

[knightpraetor]

heh ya you're probably right...i just feel that i ought to know the percentages more exactly like i do with chaingrabbing.

i mean i know that somehwere between 30 and 50 it gets really easy to jump out...earlier sometimes the dash attack can hit...that may be me being slow or it may be just happening when i try to fair...but ya i guess i just notice that a lot of pro matches either have A. the slap that you mentioned..or B. the dash attack cutting through the fair..so it just occurred to me today that if you have time to be jumping out or fairing you ought to have time to just wiggle out and fastfall to shield or CC or maybe even waveland..but i may be wrong..

but anyways every sheik i ever see from kdj down is dash attack happy when comboing marth from throws at low percentage because it works so well..but you most definitely can fair..so surely there are other options..air dodge is ok..but i'd really like to be able to punish them since i know what they are likley to try

 

[execute]

Can you explain in great detail how to properly pull off the 'ken combo?'

 

[balladechina212]

How much detail do you need?

You fair, and if DI permits, double jump to a dair.

Other tricks that could help with the Ken Combo:
1. If they are too low after you hit them with the fair, you can fastfall the end of the fair before you double jump to a dair.
2. The timing of the dair (beginning of double jump vs. end of double jump) plays a big role as to whether or not you will spike them.

 

[execute]

As in is the beginning of the combo all SH double fairs or is it full hop fairs, or do you switch to a full hopped f air and then another jump to dair at the end...

 

[JesiahTEG]

Dude, Ken Combo is only Forward Air->Dair. It doesn't need to be anything else, those are just combos.

 

[execute]

well on videos it's usually an ungoldy amount of fairs linked together and ended with a final f air > dair. I thought there was some process to doing the entire thing, I'm not confused about how to do an fair to a dair...

 

[Retroking2000]

I heard couple players using C-stick on aerial attacks as well so I was wondering how common it is for players who uses C-stick other than smash attacks.Does using C stick on aerials have any advantage compared to using A button?
Does good Marth players like Ken, Azen, Husband, etc use C stick on aerials as well?Generally, using the C-stick is going to be slower when you need an immediate aerial after a jump because your finger has to travel further (thus A for rising aerials) you do marth's fair while going backwards, you'd normaly shift forward. with the c-stick, you move back, but do a fair. same with his dair. it allows you to do the dair, without it's fastfall tendencies.

I am going crazy i need a second 2 cents help me out fellow princes of Altea

 

[Imperial Wraith]

Yes, the C-Stick is generally considered better than the A button when performing arials as it allows better control of spacing (Ie. DI backwards whilst doing a fair.

 

[Retroking2000]

Yes, the C-Stick is generally considered better than the A button when performing arials as it allows better control of spacing (Ie. DI backwards whilst doing a fair.

Thanks for the info
btw whats your email address imperial wraith

PEACE

 

[Puffin]

How do you do the inter-stock "victory dance" that all of the pro Marth players do? I know it's a combination of dash-dancing, wavedashing, and SHFFLed Nairs, but mine never looks quite right when I try.

 

[purekorea]

Isn't that just doing whatever you feel like doing at the moment? Does it have to look right o.0?

 

[Puffin]

Well, it's just not nearly as impressive when I do it. It's hard to explain, but something about the order of the wavedashing and dash-dancing is messed up. I know it doesn't really matter, but it's fun .

 

[purekorea]

Well you could always pick one you think looks cool from a vid and just copy it, frame by frame

 

[theONEjanitor]

How do you do the inter-stock "victory dance" that all of the pro Marth players do? I know it's a combination of dash-dancing, wavedashing, and SHFFLed Nairs, but mine never looks quite right when I try.

i'm pretty sure its just dash-dance back and forth then wave dash out of dash dance to shffled nair, and then posibble more dash dance to wavedash



my question
how do you beat sheik :-P

 

[purekorea]

spacing, up throw > utilt, uair combos, fair combos (not as effective as uair combos), DI tilts away, DI down throw up and away, force shiek to land when recovering, save jump when recovering till close to stage if possible.

plus some other stuff I'm most likely missing.

edit- when you force sheik to land you can either:
1. Grab>Downthrow
2. walk past >fsmash
3. reverse upB (as in dash past her, dash back, jump canceled upB)
4. fthrow to fsmash (same as #3 but grab instead of upB)

for #4 they need to be DIing towards somewhat (I think not sure if no DI works but away definitely doesn't) which will be the case if you use #2 and 3 beforhand

 

[Adi]

Yeah that's about it, the battle is really about spacing.

 

[ArcNatural]

As for the dance, a majority of the Marth dances I believe your looking at involve people dashdancing then as soon as they turn during it they wavedash backwards then shffl nair. I'm pretty sure that the dash forward immediate wavedash backwards is the cool part that you get confused on.

 

[shinkazenokizzu]

thanks for this thread my marth was having a hard time against a laser spamming falco =/

 

[Imperial Wraith]

Then you probably should have read the "Defending against falco's approach" thread shinkaze xD.

 

[Mighty_mo76]

this has probably been answered already, but its late at night and I REALLY don't have time to read trhough the whole thread:

So, whats the best way to short hop fairs (give me the most common opinion) I find its easier to c-stick when fairing to the left, but when I fair to the right, the fingering is a bit aqward since I slide my thmb to short hop (i slide it off towards the right on the X button) C sticking while fairing to the right requires that my thumb do alot of back and forth action bewtn X and C. Any consiestent methods greatly appreciated

 

[purekorea]

Sadly, Practice is the only consistent method. Really no correct way. Most people use A or Z for the first fair and then cstick the second. (I do this towards the right). Double cstick is easier to the left due to less motion required so if you can do it, why not.

Second option: learn claw grip.

Third option: be really fast.

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

I must ask, why is marth such a broken cheap character? Thank you for your time. Love, falco's around the world.

 

[purekorea]

Cause he has the falchion =)

 

[knightpraetor]

so i have a slight annoyance that bothers me..in order to dash past an opponent and grab from behind i need to not be in a full run..so that i can not stumble...however, in order to dash past the opponent without being in a full run i need to be spaced too close..far closer than i want to be against a falco..heh silly of me to complain..but my friend definitely spot dodges a lot and the easiest way to punish that without risking much is to run by to regrab...however i've concluded this isn't an option...anyways, my other options appear to be running up and standing in front of him and then grabbing after the spotdodge or running up into a shield..which do you think is the better option? i'm thinking personally that the shield is better because falco's grabs suck...basically the shield prevents you dodging grabs because you can't dashdance quickly while standing in front of them without risking getting smashed.

anyways there are of course a lot of other options to punish spotdodges, but getting right in the face of a fastfaller as marth is probably the easiest way to prompt a spot dodge. currently i try to nair or wait for a grab..but oftentimes i slightly misspace for the grab...

btw, the weirdest thing happened..i quit practicing tech skill 6hrs a day. and now it's harder to do things..i wonder how people stay in shape for tourneys...do you just practice before tourneys a lot? or maybe if i play for another year or so my tech skill will remain? i feel like i have the hardest time shifting between marth and fox..i never really get bothered switching between sheik and marth

 

[purekorea]

For the full dash deal you could try "tree grabbing" run past > hit down to cancel the run > pivot grab.

 

[ArcNatural]

The best way to get tech skill to a consistent level is to use them in friendlies and actual matches. I may everyonce and a while practice a certain tech. skill to make sure I have the motions right. The pressure of matches will make you learn them much faster, you just have to use them. You'll also learn whether your attacking to early in a shffl and that you will get shield grabbed, how shield lag changes the l-cancel timing, etc. A good example is Fox's nair to shine, if you shffl with an extremely early nair I believe it is possible for many of the cast to grab you before you can land and shine even if you shffl if they shield it. So you learn to adapt and do the nair later to prevent it from happening. So working on techs in friendlies > 6 hours of practice on tech skill that deals in "ideal" situations.

Marth and Sheik are much slower and less button heavy compared to Fox. So if you plan on using Fox in a tourney along with Marth make sure to warm up with both of the characters to see if you got the feel for them.

As for the Falco thing, as long as you shffl correctly on single fairs and nairs being close to him won't matter unless he JC shines out of shield a lot. If you have trouble when your close and get shield grabbed alot keep trying, because you need to have confidence in your abilities to shffl and such to be able to keep the pressure on. If your close and you know he is going to spot dodge, dancing blade combo also works well in hitting spotdodgers.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Marth and Shiek aren't much slower. They just aren't as tech heavy as Fox.

In terms of attacking speed and running speed they are all basically equal.

Correction.

Marth is pretty much the fastest in the game in terms of movement with pulse walking.

Except for Luigi.

 

[dawn001]

need help with my marth can someone help me and tell me what is wrong with my marth and what do i need to improve!!

Dawn Vs. TGM 1- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzBn8k6FEEE

 

[knightpraetor]

For the full dash deal you could try "tree grabbing" run past > hit down to cancel the run > pivot grab.

LOL wow you just made me feel stupid..i guess in my mind i was thinking that that would be too slow, but honestly..if your opponent is spotdodging it shouldn't be a problem

i dunno about in game matches improving your tech skill much though..i seem to be getting worse and worse at perfect waveshines with each passing day..even on days where i played 6 hrs of matches vs 5 or 6 people.
some techs need to be practiced in matches..but then on the otherhand..some tech situations only occur once in a while in matches..


oh and thanks for the ded advice..i should try that as well..

regardless it's annoying that my tech skill is dropping...most annoying is that i saw myself miss 3 JC grabs i attempted yesterday..and i hadn't missed one of those in like a year:\

this is not marth related but i feel like it's impossible to react to regrab on sheik's techchase on fastfallers..am i wrong? i mean it's close enough that sometimes i manage to react it feels like..but maybe i just got lucky.


hmm, i'm thinking you're right that i shouldn't worry about closing distance against falco..if falco starts trying to shieldgrab a lot...spotdodge to grab will make him regret it since marth's game has much better grabs

 

[ArcNatural]

You are right Emblem, when I meant faster, I meant how fast you need to use your fingers. All of his techs such as waveshining, shdl, even his shffls are faster button wise since he is a fast faller. I did not mean fast in terms of general movements.

To regrab on Sheik's techchase you just need to have read their tech properly. Against good opponents most of them will mix there techs up to make it less predictable. I have a problem with tech chasing as well, I get tech chases just fine but I always feel like I'm not approaching tech chasing correctly.

The thing about perfect waveshines is they are much harder to get in a match than practicing it. It shows you how well your muscle memory is. It's much harder to get that first hit in that can lead to using a perfect waveshine. You want your skill to be able to be done on reflex, the only way I think you can get it to be that way is in matches. I feel that too much tech practice is bad, because it can make you only be able to do certain things in the "ideal" situation and makes you more predictable.

 

[Q.T. Hedge]

Probably a stupid question...

What's the best move to start a combo with?

 

[Kel]

Moving the control stick in a direction is the best move to start doing almost anything.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

A stupid question gets a stupid answer.

Read my guideline thread.

 

[Miztik]

A stupid question gets a stupid answer.

Read my guideline thread.

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

that is so messed up but it is very true

 

[knightpraetor]

i kinda get what you mean..in that a long time ago i had a hard time doing perfect waveshines out of dairs and stuff..but i feel like if you're having trouble doing something in a match it means you aren't training a skill properly in practice...like when i trained pivoting or waveshining i didn't just sit htere and do it...i did it out of every aerial imaginable..full jumps..short hops..dashdance, wavedashes, etc...training in a rote pattern doesn't really work..but if you master it from every possible combination it works pretty well...

anywyas, arc...my real question about sheik's techchase was more whether you think it can be done purely on reaction speed so that the opponent can't get out..i've heard it's possible..but it seems ridiculously hard to do on reaction alone..

if i try to predict them i usually do a little better...because when i try to do it off reaction i never get there bfeore they hvae time to spotdodge

anyways, i'm finally getting waveshining down again...i feel like it was a waste though..my old grip i could waveshine fine in..and i don't really use pivots that much even now that i can do them with my new grip...i just don't think to use it much..the last time i pivoted anything other than a fsmash was ages ago..sometimes i do dtilt but it's rarely been of use for me..and i generally just use over b instead of pivot jabs

 

[ArcNatural]

The only person I have seen react to which way someone techs instantly is KoreanDJ. I've seen him literally follow people's rolls with a dash like he was attached at the hip. I personally think you can follow techs if you react quickly enough. A good deal of it comes with knowing what your going to do depending on what happens. You should know what you want to do if they:

1. miss tech
2. get up attack
3. get up (tech or otherwise
4. roll left (tech or otherwise)
5. roll right (tech or otherwise

Once you have basic strategies you do in those situations the faster and faster you can respond to what you see. If you think I'm going to grab if he gets up and walk fsmash tipper if he rolls away you leave yourself with better options. While I'm sure plenty will disagree, I think that if you know what you plan to do you have a better chance of reacting to what you see. Since your not thinking about what your plan of action is, your waiting for their plan of action so you can respond.

 

[knightpraetor]

hmm, dash attack chasing is easy..one can easily tech chase that..should have thought of that..i'm mainly thinking of regrabs..i think the timing is really tight on that..fsmash tipper isn't a bad idea either..i never techchase with that...i can only see that being better than a dash attack at low percentages though.

 

[ArcNatural]

I don't mean KDJ tech chases with a dash attack, although I'm sure he does whenever he feels like it. I mean that he can instantly dash to grab depending on which way you roll. You shouldn't always try to tech chase with grabbing since getup attacks techs can mess you up. This is another way of looking at it. Your trying to read techs right? Well your opponent is trying to guess what your doing too. So if you have a predictable tech chase they know how to keep you guessing.

 

[knightpraetor]

hmm, well i hope that i will run to shield if they are standing in place afterwards..and by saying that it is reactable i mean you wait to see whether the teching animation starts and then try to follow on speed...if they don't tech just put up your shield or dsmash...you should have time..or at least so the sheik forums told me..they basically argued that the better players can do all of the techchase on pure reaction speed so that getting out is basically a foregone conclusion unless they mess up carelessly

 

[AS Money]

good players also realize teching in place and jabbing is the best way to get out of this kinda thing due to being unexpected after tech rolling so much.