Marth Q&A-Ask your questions here!!

[brawlpro]

i don't come here often...my badzz <_<

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ahhh, I was wondering why you hadn't been bugging me blue.

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Bugging you? don't flatter yourself, I imagine you're missing me so much.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=2918801#post2918801

check that thread out lol..

 

[brawlpro]

^ <3

fo real z=/

 

[Emblem Lord]

blue...Make it more obvious why don't ya?

lolz

Hidden messages FTW.

>_>

*Disappears into the shadows

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Meh, we both know how dumb the general people are

No worries!

anyways, heading to bed, take it easy emblem

 

[brawlpro]

i already know "it" <_<

blue's a kewl friend of mine!

 

[DaveOSmasher]

Hey can anyone help me out?

Hi im a marth player, more or less noob but before using marth i always used roy , so im used to fighting in that way. Well, there a tournament this saturday, and i wondered if you could give me any advice or tactic or somethin. What i normally do is wait for the other guy to come and atack and then i either roll to his other side while hes atacking and then smash him towards the ledge or just smash him a second before he does because of the long range of the sword. I do that a lot. I also try to make him jump so that i can do air atacks on him or if not jump in the air towards him without doing nothing so that he hits me and then i block. I also block whenever i see its obvius that hes going to hit me. And thats it. What do u guys think?

The maximum ive managed to beat within game characters are all character lvl9 in a 1v1 battle and two characters lvl6 1v2.

Please answer i need help

 

[purekorea]

Learning techs might be a start

Roll> smash only works on noobs if you are doing it constantly that is. (sounds like a cpu strategy..)

There too much to explain one by one but grab combos are a must to learn with marth.

 

[LordZosh]

I'm not the best Marth user, but I can pull off some tricks here and there... but anyways, my main question is: What is the best way to approach the enemy (specifically, using wavedash). I've pretty much mastered the wavedash, but in battle, I only use it for edgehogging. I have yet to discover another use for it. I've watched pro videos and see them use it a lot, but I'd like to understand when to use the wavedash properly.

 

[AS Money]

-Dash forward wavedash back out of there range


ok there's one comon and easy use of it i don't feel like answering further figure it out or someone eles will do better

on to what i want to know

Pivoting I am now just starting to use it and it is a handy thing to do but i really want to know how does it help in chainthrowing fox to death so well

 

[ArcNatural]

-on to what i want to know

Pivoting I am now just starting to use it and it is a handy thing to do but i really want to know how does it help in chainthrowing fox to death so well

The reason it helps is because if a Fox or Falco DI up around 25-39% (roughly, basically before you can uptilt to keep on grabbing). The only way you can regrab is if you pivot grab. Since they can shine before you can grab them. But if you pivot grab, you can run out of range of the shine and pivot grab them. Your basically spacing the grab so that you do not get shined.

 

[Only Hope]

I'm not the best Marth user, but I can pull off some tricks here and there... but anyways, my main question is: What is the best way to approach the enemy (specifically, using wavedash). I've pretty much mastered the wavedash, but in battle, I only use it for edgehogging. I have yet to discover another use for it. I've watched pro videos and see them use it a lot, but I'd like to understand when to use the wavedash properly.

You can use wavedashing for mind games, as AS Money said.
Spacing is very important with marth, as the idea is to get a tipper of as much as u can(unless your ken comboing, etc.), that is where wavedashing comes in handy, because it is soemtimes easier tehn dashdancing into the right position, especailly since you can make your wave dashes short or long, depending on how much you point the control stick in a direction.
If you can dashdance and WD across the field, while adding shffl's to taht, you will look alot faster, which, can lead to very good mindgames.

Thoes are just some uses of WD'in, there are more of course...
If anyone has anything to add or something i said wrong on this post, please feel free to say so.

 

[Glowfisch]

i have a question..

i neet some help with a chain grab combo
the chaingrabing is easy but .. i just startet to play marth so duno wut to do to finish my combo
i noticed that an u tilt around 40% is good but still ...

could sumon tell me a nice cg combo tah killis those damm space animals :D

Gratzz

 

[Randizzle]

combo with grabs and utilt until 50-60 then continue/end with tipper fsmash, fairs into fsmash/dair/nair, uairs into nair/fsmash, into utilt dair (if near edge), into dair (depending on DI and if close enough to edge). follow this all up with edgeguarding as appropriate.

the important thing is to know how to improvise and read and react to DI very quickly.

 

[Glowfisch]

sounds gread i'll try it out :D
ty

 

[Glowfisch]

ohw yeah another question..

lol

i tryed doing sum duble ari stuf.. looks wonder full. but.
i neet to know aa good set up for duble arials..
it hapons alot of times that i miss the first hit and get counterd -.-'

i neet an easy way to get tho hit with bothe arials
(timing is one thing i know...but i want to know a litel more then only change the timeing ^^)

i ask alot of lame questions haha

 

[thebluedeath1000]

Randy, thats abit too high of a % for a decent fox player to be getting done like that.

I try to end my chaingrabs at the 30% mark either way..either mixing it up or going for smash or tilt because you're asking for trouble by trying to continue it further against a good player.

 

[Glowfisch]

haha ty again
to bad i don't have any good players around here -.-'
a frend of mine was 2e at an ssbm. tournement at the game play (sumthing like the E3)
but he can't beat me (he plays sheik..)

duno wy but my bowser ore any other char in the game ***** him lol

 

[AzureKiteSky]

Well, my friend is a Sheik player and he beats me quite often. sheik (Username: Vonfinell2)

 

[Glowfisch]

thats gread to hear..
i wish that i had a good oponent..
i play 1 vs 2 battels and still kick there buts (my main is falco but i wanted to try so marth stuf to)
but i'm training them to get better

 

[Randizzle]

nope, it definitely works beyond 30%. the shine can be avoided with a good pivot grab or utilt. i've done this to dope, scotu, anther, and several less experienced fox and falco players as well, so i know this works and plus i've seen ken, taj, and m2k do this as well to fox players like PC and chillin.

 

[knightpraetor]

unnecessarily risky i would say but whatever..to each his own..on another note.

i had a few questions

CCing with marth..good against blank attack at blank percentages..anyone care to give me some guesstimates? this is probably the weakest part of my marth game..i get a few CC tilts from sheiks at some percentages but that is about it....what do you punish with a CC anyways? just grab? that's what i try to do a lot...dtilt seems unworthy, since you absorb an attack..and fsmash takes ten years...anyone know what attacks can be CC into that safely?

oh my other question..so the sheik is standing there and spotdodges your fair..do you dtilt or ftilt usually? wondering if M2k really meant to ftilt there..does it do much more damage? i don't memorize percents on moves and only guesstimate most combo ranges..as long as you know stuff within 10% or so it's fine..and easier to remember.


also emblem..when are you going to write an approaching falco with sheik thread..seriously...why is that one so much harder..maybe the lack of range and deadly fair? all i know is it actually tempts me to try to master powershielding...how do you people do it? i'm guessing there is a general range you let it get to in front of you before you decide to react and start pressing..and then the shield comes up after so many startup frames and reflects (light shield of course)..anyone know roughly what that spacing is....in fsmash lengths

edit; watching m2k vs kdj again..and i'm wondering when i should go for upair nonsweetsopt to uptilt as opposed to full hop nair...both are good..i'm just wondering if anyone has thoughts on when you might prefer one to the other. uptilt if there are platforms to land on or if you think you might be able to ken combo/spike near the edge?

and nair near the center to try to push them towards the ledge? and of course i guess nair if you think that the force of the upair will not raise them high enough to give you time to turn aroudn the uptilt

finally a comparison question..what do you think of dropped nairs as opposed to fairs when getting comboed? i was trying to think of the tradeoffs..on the bright side the nair is already out there..so maybe it can't be dashattacked through by sheik? usnure of that..need to test it...but fair is better in that you can choose to drop to dashdance or shield instead...or delay the attack till the right moment...i'm guessing a nair if they see or call it fast enough the opponent could full hop over it and come down on you with an aerial in the weak upper corner of the nair...that said fairs are in danger from CCing.

oh just watched another match..it's good to note that at farther ranges when the sheik can barely hit that the nair's lag is unpunishable...while the fair having to be timed has a chance that you might miss or the dash attack might pierce.

 

[Emblem Lord]

For CCing there are too many attacks to list. Everyone in the game ahs quiote a few moves. You want all of them? Be specific to get what you want. What character with what move vs a CCing Marth.

D-tilt and grab are fine follow-ups after a CC. D-smash or U-tilt as well.

If a shiek spot dodges my fair I dash cross-up to grab, grab or u-tilt.

I don't play Shiek, but she has a pretty easy time with lasers IMO. Plus she has a projectile. Dash attack under lasers. Full hop to needle cancel. Short hop needle cancels. Wavedash to shield for spacing. F-tilt if you are close then grab.

 

[knightpraetor]

hmm, how long should i risk CC sheik's tilts..and marth's fair and dtilt..those are really the only ones i need.

also..how long can sheik CC marth's fair...mainly the tipped one..i think the other one is a really long time..like 60-80??

umm, ok about falco..i should describe in greater detail the problems sheik has...also i can't find any decent videos of falco's camping a sheik...i see it happen for a life's worth in one match and it worked, but then he quit doing it..not sure why you quit doing something that's working but whatever...

there must be more punishability to it than i think..but basically..needles do not compete with lasers..unless the falco sucks..or maybe my needling sucks..but i don't see how logically how they could..a good falco should be able to time triple lasers and double lasers to shoot you out of the sky a good proportion of the time..particularly needle charging is vulnerable since you aren't closing range in that time..one needle won't make a difference in the lasering unfortunately..so basically it's a question of closing..the falco should be using mostly head height lasers to start with and only shoot low if they are close enough or if they're crouching...anyways, shield wavedashes can just be outcamped if you fire fast enough and realize they are doing it, however, the advantage to them camping your shield is that because they intend to prevent shield wavedashes a lot that allows you to get off the ground rather easily..they will immediately respond by beginning aerial lasers..if they are smart probably a triple laser or a slightly above head height laser..

hmm that's an idea maybe i should be jumping out of shield to fastfall..i just feel like the lasers seem to react and track me more than i can predict and dodge them...anyways, eventually i do close the range after some damage from getting knocked out of the air by lasers during full jumps ( though far fewer than i take trying to shorthop past).

but i guess my approach game at this point must suck...i can now attempt needles a lot more safely..as risking triple lasers at midrange is dangerous as a miss means fair to death possibly. anyways if i get called on the needles which happens once in a while i will end up getting daired from a dash full jump and the cycle restarts (with or without a 20-40% shine combo in between), if it hits, i have with luck 20-40% damage and with greater luck a throw to edgeguard (assuming the falco's camping brought him near the edge of FD)

hmm, i think this must be where my weakness is..thinking about it now i'm being way too predictable at this point..the falco tends to laser trap me in my shield if i just land..and just fairing or needling is too predictable so i need to try some sort of ground game at this point more often.

but if i get trapped in shield he will try to aerial through my shield and escape..i either

A. need to get better at dodging him with short wavedashes out of shield now that it is more risky for him to spam rapid lasers allowing me to short hop an aerial him in lag or close the final bit of range

B. shield his dair and then immediately follow him when he runs away to camp? i'm not sure if this will work as he has enough stun and if i roll towards him that won't work for obvious reasons..i can drop shield and run after..but he's going to get a reverse laser in me probably before i can move...i mean optimally i turn around and run to jump to dodge the laser but i get the feeling that isn't going to be fast enough

post 2: though i guess i'll avoid double posting..this is a post of all things i've thought watching matches tonight..some things are obvious...but i'll post them for the enjoyment of all. Basically some is from my memory, some stuff is just thoughts i had while watching..none of it is particularly worthwhile but there are a few questions in it as well..a lot of it is just noting combos or moves i don't use in my game currently

Marth vs sheik

bthrow...fake a bair fastfall to uptilt

when dash attacked from behind make sure ot break habit of using an uptilt after the

dair..just shield afterwards or grab..as the opponent must roll or spotdodge or try to turn around and regrab

(edit: i don't understand why i wrote this...a dair backwards should knock the sheik down..maybe it's just at low damage that i was getting punished before the upair? can you CC the dair at low percentage? or maybe they are getting knocked down and then using a getup attack? all i remember is that i was getting punished after the dair sometimes..but that makes it sound like i just missed an l-cancel..shrugs..what do you think?)


when uptilting remember if they di back to use a bair...jump to upair after upthrow can

cover both straight up and inwards..but fair for away

up+b to kill

use over b more to stun and the like

if tehy react to shielded fairs by shields...run in to grab..if they jump out or wavedash

out slightly, watch out for spotdodge. if they just roll behind you just turn and regrab...
jump outs can be punished by aerials carefully

sheik should use more short wavedashes in this matchup to respace for dash attacks...watch carefully.
out of upthrow ken combo is possible when tehy di away and jump out.fsmash to fsmash is a

combo with marth if they di the first one to survive and don't go very far at low damage

CC tilts at low damage from sheik..use more dtilts in early life as long as you aren't

predictable seeing as it's harder for sheik to punish at low damageS?

..watch out for CCed fairs

nair stationary opponents on platforms as they get up if they don't roll..when do i use this instead of upair..i guess whenever i think it's better to have an edgeguard


New combo..uptilt sweetspot, uptilt nonsweetspot..fsmash

don't attempt full hopped dfairs (nonsweetspot) very often...even if you hit with the one

going up sheik can recover and dash attack you in recovery time..particularly it's too

common after a fair out of a double jump to fastfalled second fair..try wavelanding out of

range more and/or dropping to shield or spotdodge or dtilt.

i try to ken combo too much..even if i can jump up for that extra sweetspot fair sometimes

it's easier just to fsmash.

m2k seems to shieldbreaker on the way down quite a bit..i don't see why unless he thinks it

will kill at higher damage..surely it doesn't have more priority than marth's nair/fair. i

still question his use though..center stage it was unlikely to kill


sheik vs marth

why does kdj bair so much pointblack at them on the wrong side of the bair..does it have

less lag if you're just trying to punish a weakened shield and want to be able to dodge

later? basically he seems to fastfall bairs on weakened shields in front of him at weird

times..i'm guessing nair is laggy or bair has a nice hitbox at a weird spot or he's trying

to call them sh forward out of shield

at 0% upthrow should be naired out of

at 5-10% you can di behind marth for an easier jump out...can technically jump out at at

least 3 %

if sheik is caught by a nonsweetspot aerial she can nair out a lot and hit marth

back.depends on damage and spacing.

sheik can CC dair from shield to punish laggy dash attack on front side of marth so marth will probably grab at lower damages

how long is sheik in lag after an airdodge towards the ground..is it worth trying for

fsmashes instead of regrabs..tilts seem pretty easy to hit though..i just never try smashing

cause it seems like they can get up their shield pretty quick..i guess that's my fault for

letting them near the ground instead of hitting them for waiting so long to airdodge

 

[ArcNatural]

Your questions are WAY TOO SPECIFIC.

Your thinking enough, which I guess is better than most, but your not applying it to find out yourself. You could easily hold down when going to the character select screen and picking Marth or have a friend ftilt you to find out the cc percentage. Many of your questions are what ifs and what nots. Your not playing a robot that will always fall for the same thing. You need to adapt more to the PERSON not the character. There are many safe options, but there is always risk involved. If your opponent reads what your going to do it doesn't matter how safe it is most of the time. You need to keep it a little unpredictable.

That bthrow to fake bair to uptilt? Sounds good, but then after the Sheik sees it once they could just airdodge towards you to avoid the uptilt then grab, just DI away, etc. Shield breaker is decent sometimes because it sort of makes you float for a bit and can throw people off. It also has the most knockback of an aerial move and decent priority (it's still a sword length), at least until very high percents where a tipped nair or bair might have it.

KoreanDJ is KoreanDJ, he takes pride in being random to the point that it hurts. I remember he tried to upB kill Ken in a tournament match with Sheik once. Who the hell risks that? i'll just assume that he back airs because so many other's fair and the bair stays out longer so opponents might just jump into it, and it might be easier for him to fastfall.

At 0% a Marth should be fthrowing Sheik, which is why an upthrow at 0% doesn't always get nair'd out of since they don't expect it. As far as I know all air dodge landing frames have 10 frames of lag, basically the same amount of lag as a wavedash. And I don't understand what you from Sheik can CC a dair from shield to punish laggy dash attack on front side of Marth. Is Sheik shielding and CCing at the same time? I don't really make sense of that.

Your overthinking I think. A lot more of your options should be based on what your opponent is doing, not what you want to do.

 

[Cactuar]

Ahaha. Marth forums are good for a laugh.

*cactus dance*

 

[FrostByte]

haha ty again
to bad i don't have any good players around here -.-'

You have some of the best players in Europe around there.

 

[Aesir]

Ahaha. Marth forums are good for a laugh.

*cactus dance*

Lol stiff appendages are stiff.

 

[knightpraetor]

i wasn't suggesting that those are like amazing approaches that everyone should use...that was just a list of things i've never tried mostly or noticed that i need to use in order to punish specific things..like the bair i use often gets jumped out so i recognized seeing that that i need to do more odd things like fastfalls to uptilt.. i use upair sometimes instead of bair thinking they will jump over me..but i never thought to use uptilt like m2k did there.

i don't think often enough to try to neutral air out as sheik because i forget the nair hit box goes behind and below you a good bit.


"And I don't understand what you from Sheik can CC a dair from shield to punish laggy dash attack on front side of Marth. Is Sheik shielding and CCing at the same time? I don't really make sense of that.
"

i meant when you dair out of shielding the dash attack..it usually will not sweetspot in front of you if they are crouching...it's probably not as good for the sheik as just shielding but it's a mixup and i have to remember that they can CC it without getting knocked down all the time..now i could do the dair later out of the shield but that guarantees them time to counterattack.

anyways, i know that i can't expect any given move to work all the time..but these are things i don't currently find much use for and need to remember or be given ideas on how to make work. like Over b for marth is not a current part of my game..i just don't feel it ever works out well for me..anyways i think knowing more options will make me less predictable while my marth right now feels very stereotypical with not enough variety.

also i thought for a long time that sheik's couldn't jump out at low damage unless the marth was slow timing the uptilt..and since i thought it was a guaranteed combo I'd try to do it and improve my timing..but now i think i'm pretty sure that they can almost always jump out.

anyways i dont claim to be good..i may be the best on my college campus out of a dozen players or so, but i have a long ways to go..and none of my friends CC anywhere near enough (except by accident doing dtilts or dsmash) and i'm sorta trying to force myself to learn to use things i haven't really seen demonstrated in person.

also i'm still pretty bad at catching people out of jump outs..the reality of course is that no one gets someone 100% of the time that they jump out of the uptilt even if they know they are going to jump out..but i'm pretty bad at knowing when they will be able to aerial me before i can reach them...like sheik's bair can get pretty good coverage if you try to jump to bair against her. I mean it will probably trade..but it's annoying to get hit out of your own throw combo

 

[KevinM]

The marth bored really needs to learn some new Jutsus

on topic my friend said i play like "a zen" whatever that means

<3 cactuar

 

[Aiko]

I've been working on my marth for a good month now, im pretty competent with all the basic aerial combos, like double fairs to smashes, uptilts to uairs and fairly extensive combos. I can 0 - death occasionally too, but I don't use forward B in my offensive game.

Can people tell me the best ways to use it? Ive seen vids where they use it as part of combos or to turn around quickly, or even just as a quick attack (like a jab). Just some guidelines and basic combos would be good (eg forward B, utilt)

 

[Smash G 0 D]

The first three straight forward B hits is a clean kill at high %.

First three hits with third upwards is a nice launcher occasionally.

First hit of forward B can be used to interrupt combos or used instead of a jab. Only downside is that it can't be canceled like a jab or dtilt.

One thing I like to do is SHNair when my opponent is shielding. I'll land behind them. I lcancel into a backwards first hit of forward B. Chances are they jumped or sidestepped the Nair. If they sidestepped, you can continue the combo to launcher or kill. If they jumped and you hit them, do the same thing.

Sometimes the full combo with the last hit Upwards can make for an unexpected upwards kill.

Don't try it too much, but you can be creative with the third hit downward meteor.

Remember that when using the forward B moves, you won't have as much range and priority, so use it sparingly.

 

[Saph66]

Hey, I have a short question about Marth's short hop move. I can do SHD Fair, and SH Fair to Uair. However my question is, how do I make my Uair after the Fair close to the ground, so that his Uair won't go up into the air. This makes it harder to combo for me, cause it takes too long for him to get down from the Uair.

I see in videos like Kizzu, his Uair after the Fair is seen only a bit cause he lands so fast. Do I have to Uair then fastfall or something, or is there a specific timing for that different than the SHD Fair itself?

Thanks for helping :D.

 

[Only Hope]

Hey, I have a short question about Marth's short hop move. I can do SHD Fair, and SH Fair to Uair. However my question is, how do I make my Uair after the Fair close to the ground, so that his Uair won't go up into the air. This makes it harder to combo for me, cause it takes too long for him to get down from the Uair.

I see in videos like Kizzu, his Uair after the Fair is seen only a bit cause he lands so fast. Do I have to Uair then fastfall or something, or is there a specific timing for that different than the SHD Fair itself?

Thanks for helping :D.

Try useing the a button for the fair, and teh c stick for the uair, tho, ff with the control stick, and right b4 u hit the ground, hit up on the c stick.
U didn't say if you used the C stick, so i'm assuming you didn't, i might be wrong though.

 

[Saph66]

Thx for the help, yea I don't use the c stick, just the a button, but I'll do that.

 

[Puffin]

Why does it seem like everyone who mains Marth has a Fox secondary? I know Falco is a great Fox counter, among other things. I can see a Marth Sheik main being good too. Why are these so scarce? I see almost NO Marth/Falcos...

 

[Levitas]

Not always true. I main the Marth and second Ness. wtf.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Whatever Marth can't handle, Fox handles.

Not really true for Marth/Sheik.

As for Falco...when does Falco win tournies?

Also why wouldn't you main the two best characters in the game?

 

[Aesir]

I secondary falco >_>