Marth Q&A-Ask your questions here!!

[Salaad]

I secondary falco >_>

Me too! but I also use Fox cause I don't like Marth dittos. Falco's just so much fun to use.

 

[Puffin]

Whatever Marth can't handle, Fox handles.

Not really true for Marth/Sheik.

As for Falco...when does Falco win tournies?

Also why wouldn't you main the two best characters in the game?

OK, that makes sense. However, that brings me to one more question. Why is it that, ranked second on the tier list, Falco never seems to win any tournies? It's pretty much all Marth and Fox. For that matter, although Ken and M2K agree that Sheik is the best character, she doesn't win as many tourneys...

 

[Emblem Lord]

People will tell you that it's because the best players don't use her or Falco.

But I will say that is for a reason. The game has been out for 6 yers, so why don't the best use those two characters? Why do Fox and Marth win most of the tournies.

They have been winning since the beggining.

Maybe because they have always been the best?

Maybe because only now after 6 years people, including myself are finally accepting that Marth is a beast?

Also as more things are discovered you are forced to re-evaluate match-ups. You look at match-ups now and think hmmmm, you know Marth really doesn't get owned by Sheik, or hmmmm you know Fox really doesn have some good things going for him vs Falco and you realize that maybe certain characters do better in certain match-ups then previously believed.

 

[JesiahTEG]

So Falco has the advantage on Fox? Explain.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Beastly combos on Fox.

Fox can't DI out of Falco's combos worth a ****.

Psuedo CG.

Fox has a very hard time approaching.

Lasers mess him up.

You can reflect lasers, but then what? You can't JC a shine that has reflected something.

He can't shine combo Falco.

Falco can tech shine spikes.

It's mostly just because Falco screws up Foxes approach and has a harder time landing hits while Falco has an easier time overall.

I'm 95% certain that Falco can death combo Fox from 0.

Don't qoute me on that though.

 

[StickyChopstix]

How do I prevent my light shield from coming out after I attack when I try to grab? Like for example when I dash attack and then when I press Z my light shield ends up coming out. This happens a lot and i end up getting punished for it.

Also another question: Is there a quick way of pulling out a quick up-tilt out of a dash?

 

[ArcNatural]

The reason why your shield comes out is because you try to grab too fast. If you press Z to grab to soon from the dash attack you will light-shield rather than grab. This will happen with any other attack as well if you do it too fast, so just work on timing to make sure that you hit Z after the attack is finished.

there are only 2 decent ways and one hard of being able to do a quick up-tilt out of a dash. The easiest way would be to CC the dash and then uptilt or just wavedash and then uptilt rather than dash, the hardest way would be to pivot during the dash to uptilt. It is much easier to do pivot jab,ftilt,fsmash than it is to uptilt or dtilt. I wouldn't recommend trying to do the pivot method for uptilts.

 

[UMBC Super Smasher]

Question: A thread recently went up of a doc player asking marth players for advice on the match-up from marth's point of view, but I want to make sure my question gets noticed so I can get a good reply. My question is how to properly fight doc with marth? In particular, how to go about dealing with doc's pills. Also, are there any vids of a good marth vs doc? I looked at the ones in the video section sticked on these boards, but none were particularly good. Thanks.

 

[knightpraetor]

believe it or not the pills of doc really aren't that much of a threat to marth..used to be i would get ***** by pill rushes and pill camping, but honestly just practice mixing ground ftilts/ fairing through with L-cancelled pills...once you close range try to jump over a standing pill if he does it or just jump and swipe through an aerial pill..but honestly a good doc once you close range will either not pill..or use a pill approach on the last pill before you could have closed range...still..doc's pill approaches are hardly foolproof vs marth..they are rather easy to dash back and just take out the pill or dodge it entirely..or swipe through carefully.

still, it takes a big of getting used to..i remember the early vs doc matches i would take like 90% in pill rushes/pills..it was sad....and then even when i started aerialling them properly..i'd miss L-cancels and get slowed down enough so that he could punish me in lag..just practice though..i'm sure if you can get a friend to just shoot pills/pill rush you in general you will get more used to that aspect of doc's game

 

[Ryusiodo]

When you shffl fairs do you do it as soon as possible or at the peak? I can shuffl nairs pretty consistently but I have a problem with the fairs. They always seem to come out at the wrong time and I mess up the whole shffl for it.

 

[Puffin]

When you shffl fairs do you do it as soon as possible or at the peak? I can shuffl nairs pretty consistently but I have a problem with the fairs. They always seem to come out at the wrong time and I mess up the whole shffl for it.

http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=2902606#post2902606

 

[knightpraetor]

so i thought i'd mention that i placed 3rd at a small tourney i went to..lost to schoolie dee's jiggly..anyways i've read through all the marth posts on the matchup so maybe i won't play so poorly next time...i feel like i got fair baited a lot..as well as i seemed unable to punish him when he camped the ledgehog trying to get me to attack so i could punish..at best i would get a dtilt and more often than not he would punish me...fsmashing was a very bad idea. Also i was crouch cancelled a bit more than i should have been..anyways, if anyone wants to throw out tips on the matchupit would be nice.

For example: against fair baiting I should have

empty shorthopped in dashed back out of range of jiggs bair and then swiped a bair while jumping out
shielded the aerials and then shieldwavedashed a nair ( i think that it works better than fair since the jiggs tends to be in the air and it hangs longer)
Wavelanded backwards into fsmash..
throw out more uptilts after fairs in case he moves in...granted he can just wait for the uptilt and punish..but it least it makes me harder to predict..i don't remember doing that much

not sure what other options could punish him well...and he would definitely crouch cancel at inopportune times..i was nairing a good bit. but i probably should have daired some to punish..i guess i was too focused on worrying about horizontal priority in the air game

anyways for the most part i got *****..though i think technically both marth vs jiggs matches were within a stock or two.

most enjoyable moment was punishing his rollout by hopping over the first spin, shielding the second and then dairing to fsmashing him on his 3rd pass out of the shield.

most embarassing moment was probably wehn i counterpicked sheik vs jiggs on jungle japes..and then i stood there for 1.5 seconds watching his crouch..and i sorta meant to dash attack through him and ended up fsmashing, leading to rest to death..

thankfully later in the match i did pull it off and just dash attack through leaving him resting there...somehow i won that match due to inopportune claptraps killing him..pretty hilarious match though.

also won green greens vs his bowser with my fox pretty easily...except that i phantasmed just as he attempted to fortress ledgegrab for no apparant reason...really funny low damage stock loss.

Only other match was when he picked mute city..he said i should have gone fox..but i thought that stage had a high ceiling..anyways i tried peach (who i have played maybe 10 matches in my life total) and i was quite thoroughly *****...and rest comboed once as well...which he said was pretty risky..so i'm guessing i might have been able to get out of it if i had known what i was doing

hmm, what else...oh a yoshi player named dean showed up at the tourney long enough to knock some people out and then just left giving others a bi..but i took my first loss to him ..but it's not surprising..my fox could barely beat his G&W.

Still, i don't get how a yoshi could cream me that badly on yoshi's story as marth...it's like dtilt me off then egg my 2nd jump...then egg my recovery and dsmash me as i pop up or something...so many gimps...i naired a lot in that matchup to avoid the CC game..but even so i was just totally outplayed..wish i could have gotten that on vid so i could understand what i was doing wrong..but ya i'm such a n00b;p

oh i beat a falcon player in that tourney but i had trouble waveshining him...he would CC and not go the right distance and i would have already started a perfect waveshine distance.

Is it really possible to react to the different distances in time? like that match where m2k combos pc chris to death, pc chris doesn't alternate his DI any..so i'm wondering if i should even bother trying to learn that sort of thing or rely on it

edit: also, does falcon have a bigger advantage on yoshi than marth? i found that falcon vs yoshi on pokefloats was much more evenly matched...I almost won the set cause of that (though he did take the 2nd match with a secondary)

 

[StickyChopstix]

The reason why your shield comes out is because you try to grab too fast. If you press Z to grab to soon from the dash attack you will light-shield rather than grab. This will happen with any other attack as well if you do it too fast, so just work on timing to make sure that you hit Z after the attack is finished.

there are only 2 decent ways and one hard of being able to do a quick up-tilt out of a dash. The easiest way would be to CC the dash and then uptilt or just wavedash and then uptilt rather than dash, the hardest way would be to pivot during the dash to uptilt. It is much easier to do pivot jab,ftilt,fsmash than it is to uptilt or dtilt. I wouldn't recommend trying to do the pivot method for uptilts.

I tried to CC the dash and then uptilting but I end up jumping all the time. Also about the grab thing, I'm having trouble trying to chain-grab if I don't throw them up. For example: When I try to f-throw and then try to time it so that I can dash forward and grab them again, I'm "stuck" and I just end up standing there waiting for my dash animation lol. I know it can be done because I've seen vids of someone doing it but to me it seems impossible to even catch up to grab them again. The same thing goes for my back-throw. That back-throw is way too laggy to be useful. It should commit suicide and die xD.

One more question: When I play against those LVL 9 CPU's I notice that even though I have an uber-long pwnsaber that is hitting them in the face while they run into it, they always seem to be able to grab my sword. I was wondering...is it difficult to time it like that in a real human matchup? The whole disjointed hitbox thing confuses me bcuz...even though I have this "invincible disjointed hitbox" sometimes when my f-smash and my friend's fox f-smash clash it looks as though he knocks me out by kicking my sword -__-|' he doesn't even recieve any damage. So either I'm misunderstanding this whole disjointed box thing or fox has diamond legs of steel or something o_O

 

[Emblem Lord]

There isn't much logic in priority rules in fighting games. Developers merely give certain moves more priority then others.

Generally stronger moves and moves that use weapons have more priority then other moves, but there are many exceptions, especially in smash.

As for grabbing Marth's sword, well your opponents aren't grabbing Marth's sword at all. They are grabbing Marth's hand before the arc of the blade even touches them.

Does it happen in real matches vs humans? Yes. Does it happen alot? Not at all. It will usually happen when you face other Marth's and Sheiks because they have long grab range.

As for CGing.

*Shrugs

Practice. What else can be said? There are so many things that can only be fized with practice. If you are having trouble with something and you know what you are doing wrong then just practice.

For f-throw chain grabs make sure to dash after the throw animation is over.

 

[knightpraetor]

question: is it impossible to CC an uptilt if you are faired by marth? assuming a proper L cancel of course and that they follow up with shield.

in general i rarely seem to get it off..while uptilting after a dash attack is much easier

 

[Emblem Lord]

Depneds on percentage and sweetspot vs non-sweetspot.

Assuming they shield? Why would someone shield after getting a hit in with a fair?

 

[Saith]

Depneds on percentage and sweetspot vs non-sweetspot.

Assuming they shield? Why would someone shield after getting a hit in with a fair?

Marth is the best ssbm character!!!! he is got long reach and he can counter ya

 

[brawlpro]

but he can get uthrow > uaired by fox and get ***** =O xD but chaingrab > uthrow uair lol

 

[dawn001]

Marth is the best ssbm character!!!! he is got long reach and he can counter ya

yeah but fox has the shine and will punish you of the stage!!!! oh oh and the light shield the MARTH KILLER!!!!

 

[brawlpro]

light sheild is broken XD

fox is best in the game!

fox ftw!

 

[Snakeee]

Actually, I don't see the light shield work as often as it did when first discovered. I can usually get around it pretty easily.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Then your opponents suck at it.

 

[Imperial Wraith]

Yet another player owned by the knowledge of EL. LD

 

[knightpraetor]

well i would assume after a CC most commonly people shield spot dodge roll etc...but anyways, so basically probably only at low percent can i get away with trying to CC a fair of marth's and then uptilt..so i should probably stick to just grabs or dtilts after those

 

[purekorea]

When my opponents are at high damage 130%+ what should I be going for? I usually end up over combing someone to where I can't combo into fsmash anymore.

As of now I sh nair to try to get them off stage, but sometimes I get to predictable with it. Is there anything else I could use?

 

[Emblem Lord]

If you CC then just grab, f-smash, or d-tilt. U-tilt could be viable.

Why would you roll or shield? The entire point of CCing is to be able to absorb a hit so you can counter attack and gain momentum by being able to stoop your opponents offense and immediately stage an offense yourself. Why would you throw that away by being defensive when you already used a defensive technique to get back the advantage?

 

[brawlpro]

the dancing blade, they get cought in the first one, continue it and there gone!

 

[purekorea]

but then the second pushes them too far away for the 3rd to hit which is what counts.

 

[Snakeee]

Yet another player owned by the knowledge of EL. LD

First off, I'm sure Emblem Lord didn't really mean anything negative towards me by saying my opponenets suck at light shield edgeguarding. Second off, It hardly ever works on me, or most other players I've seen, even at big tournies. I might still be a no name but even when people like PC Chris have tried to light shield edge guard me, they have almost always failed. I'm not saying I'm anyone special, I just think the technique is not that effective.

 

[Emblem Lord]

But it is.

If Marth sweet spots he dies. If he aims for the stage then he gtes knocked back off because his opponent will grab the ledge and then ledge hop aerial and he will either die or the process will repeat itself until he dies.

 

[Salaad]

LightShieldEdgeHog works. Is it possible to LSEH with Marth or is it only with spacies?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Hmmm, well I remeber Magus saying Marth could do it but the window to fast fall to grab the ldge isn't that big.

Spacies aren't the only ones who can though.

Alot of characters can do it, only a few can't.

 

[Imperial Wraith]

Snakeee, i wasn't actually being serious :D.

 

[Levitas]

But it is.

If Marth sweet spots he dies. If he aims for the stage then he gtes knocked back off because his opponent will grab the ledge and then ledge hop aerial and he will either die or the process will repeat itself until he dies.

What advantage does this hold over simply edgehogging, maintaining invincibility until the one being edgeguarded is close enough, then staying on the edge until they've been edgehogged or not, in which case you could still ledgehop an aerial back on to knock them back off? To me it only seems to be a sexier way to do the same thing. Or is there some other reason why it's advantageous?

 

[Emblem Lord]

With the Marth killer you will not mess up once you master it. Marth WILL die. With edge hogging Marth can vary his timing of recovery or do different things to make you want to roll or get of the ledge. Plus your invincibility will wear off quickly after grabbing the ledge.

With the Marth killer, Marth hits the opponent onto the ledge and they will recover before he does. They can then ledge hop and he is at thier mercy. It's basically fool proof.

Plus it's just easier. You stand there with your shield up. No guess work. You just stand there.

How could you **** that up?

Basically it's just a way to garauntee that Marth is going to die as long as he has used his second jump already.

 

[knightpraetor]

obviously you misunderstood my comment...i should have specified..

basically emblem lord i meant the opponent whose attack is being CCed may get their shield up after a fair...happens to me a big..if they try for an attack then yes the uptilt always hits..but at some damages ( i guess high ) my CC to uptilt always ended up slow and hitting a shield

 

[Emblem Lord]

So do something else, although I think a grab or an u-tilt will usually beat thier shield.

 

[dawn001]

hmmm a quick question this is probably have all ready anwser but what is the best way to take out a doc.mario and a samus with marth?

 

[ArcNatural]

hmmm a quick question this is probably have all ready anwser but what is the best way to take out a doc.mario and a samus with marth?

First you figure out what they like to do, then you try to convert that into what you like to do. Your question is too general.

Samus likes to CC all your aerial approaches? Well spaced fairs to dtilt, she likes to missile cancel to grabs and approaches? Stay close and if she missile cancels close to you be ready for the approach after.

Doc likes to pill? figure out what methods of avoiding his pills are most effective (hitting them away, rolloing, jumping over, etc. Does he bait you to whiff attacks? etc.

All this is general, nothing helps if they play a style that I don't know.

 

[pyrotek7x7]

I consistently kill myself trying to spike someone off the edge with a Dair. I just can't get back up in time. What am I doing wrong?