adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Shaya is a guy, I meant you.
Shaya, I'm wondering if he isn't using that tech that OS was working on accidentally, I'm not sure of the frame data on it so it might make it possible.
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Marth Metagame Thread
- Thread starter ∫unk
- Start date
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
if by tech you mean hack no but i assume not, as far as i know all i am doing is buffering dash foxtrot and up smash at like the same time as fox trot.
Os is overswarm right?
Os is overswarm right?
∫unk
Smash Master
Grab release u-smash doesn't work I think. You're going to have to put up a video of you doing it for there to be proof blacknight. Even a low quality cell phone video will work.
--
Mike and I tried grab release pivot walk f-smash, and I think Mike is one of the best at it and it was too hard to do consistently at maximum speed, and anything less than that it's not even close.
--
How are you guys grab release d-airing mk? I'm clawing.
--
Mike and I tried grab release pivot walk f-smash, and I think Mike is one of the best at it and it was too hard to do consistently at maximum speed, and anything less than that it's not even close.
--
How are you guys grab release d-airing mk? I'm clawing.
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
grab release pivot walk f smash I can pretty much say is not possible, unless mike can pull it out of his box of magic tricks.
I know i have no proof of my finds. No camera to use
Also the time you can cancel a foxtrot into F smash when marth is in his standing position during foxtrot, I will test (via diffrent controler settings) what else i can do and post back later.(edit i already have changed C stick to all options and this is abnormalities)
When c is changed to Special the following happens during cancel times
Up B is jump
foward b is standard (DB)
down B is jump
back B is wave bounce (DB)
Neutral B is nothing or is DB
THIS WAS VERY INTERESTING
because when you normaly dash and try to back B you end up RARing, however in normal dash you also are able to counter and DS as well.
It might be possible to cancel GR dash foxtrot- F smash on MK i don't know
I have no idea why f smash and ONLY f smash work
another thing about foxtrot is that when the begging animation of another dash occurs you do not have to be pressing button for you to have a "foward direction on control stick"
for example i went in training mode in 1/4 and foxtrotted and pressed R (without holding control stick) and rolled. This led me to a diffrent conclusion on dash to Up smash GR.
What I am 75% sure what happens is is from ( a starting point) when you foxtrot (before animation begins) marth will start up smash from the point of the second dash or first foxtrot.
this isn't on video so i CANNOT prove by frame but i created a custom stage to measure distance objectivly. its possible to dash and start up smash for same distance if you foxtrot at same point, however if you Do dash flick foward again up on c stick (or foxtrtot up smash) you are given free time to do what you will as it will give a buffering period. I have NO idea if this is in the standard buffering period or if it gives you ADDITIONAL time to buffer. (I am inclined to think the latter do to shield and rolling stated earlier)
If you have an SD card i may be able to send you replays via wii
blacknight.... i will tell you why foxtrot fsmash will -NEVER- work.
Because you only get 20 frame advantage on meta knight.
Marths fox trot before it can cancel into anything is SEVENTEEN FRAMES.
Because you only get 20 frame advantage on meta knight.
Marths fox trot before it can cancel into anything is SEVENTEEN FRAMES.
Arr yes you are right. Side b/up smash/jump, forgot about those.
∫unk
Smash Master
can you save it on a replay and send it to one of us, even post the file on this thread? it seems a little ridiculous you have no way of showing us what you're talking about
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
I really would however There is the problem is that i can't show you the controls setting i am using. I don't have an SD card. but if you are willing to trust i am using say specials for c stick on of the tests then yes.
Also the shielding thing would be really easy for you all to see. go to 1/4 foxtrot and there should be a time with moment on control stick and you press R you will roll. Again even if i sent a video of that i could just be shielding and then rolling out of dash. It really shouldn't be to hard to see.
And Shaya if foxtrot is 17 and F smash is 10 then your absoulutly right it will never work
Also the shielding thing would be really easy for you all to see. go to 1/4 foxtrot and there should be a time with moment on control stick and you press R you will roll. Again even if i sent a video of that i could just be shielding and then rolling out of dash. It really shouldn't be to hard to see.
And Shaya if foxtrot is 17 and F smash is 10 then your absoulutly right it will never work
I hope it's not just me, but I have a really hard time interpreting what you are trying to say Blacknight. For one, what does having b-stick do for you when you are trying to u-smash/f-smash MK out of GR. (Idk even which one you are trying to prove atm). Also just a general note but your sentence structure is just confusing, but if English is your second language than I understand.
Also instant rolling from the initial dash frames has been known for a while so you do not need to prove that. Like Junk said just get a video up/record yourself trying to do u-smash/f-smash out of Grab Release on MK and send the replay through the wii to somebody that is willing to upload it.
Example this guy: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233863
It should not be hard to create a less than 3 minute replay of you trying to do this, even if you don't land it if we can see the general idea than that is good too. Also we'll just take your word for your control settings, IMO it really should not matter.
Also instant rolling from the initial dash frames has been known for a while so you do not need to prove that. Like Junk said just get a video up/record yourself trying to do u-smash/f-smash out of Grab Release on MK and send the replay through the wii to somebody that is willing to upload it.
Example this guy: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=233863
It should not be hard to create a less than 3 minute replay of you trying to do this, even if you don't land it if we can see the general idea than that is good too. Also we'll just take your word for your control settings, IMO it really should not matter.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
BK is partially working on this at my request.
Move a little away from the grab release options for a minute, the interesting thing is that he SEEMS to be hitting on a movement option that OS mentioned at the end of the podcast here.
Which he still hasn't released by the way...
I'd like a replay on this, especially with frame data, but since this seems to fit into something that somebody else was already working on, it's worth considering on that basis alone.
Move a little away from the grab release options for a minute, the interesting thing is that he SEEMS to be hitting on a movement option that OS mentioned at the end of the podcast here.
Which he still hasn't released by the way...
I'd like a replay on this, especially with frame data, but since this seems to fit into something that somebody else was already working on, it's worth considering on that basis alone.
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
this is what EXACTLY what i found out with marth
EXACTLY.
I am postive OS and I are working on the same thing
However i didn't pivot I foxtroted but they both work
can you get OS to contact me on aim at Soren9934
Also if you do pivot method down smash became and option. Edit I only did Downsmash with marth ONCE its possible that simply turned around and screwed it up. IT was FAR easier to do with MK, however i can't do this consistently with MK either its pretty hard
EXACTLY.
I am postive OS and I are working on the same thing
However i didn't pivot I foxtroted but they both work
can you get OS to contact me on aim at Soren9934
Also if you do pivot method down smash became and option. Edit I only did Downsmash with marth ONCE its possible that simply turned around and screwed it up. IT was FAR easier to do with MK, however i can't do this consistently with MK either its pretty hard
∫unk
Smash Master
I don't understand wtf blacknight is saying either I just read other people's post to get a general idea.
Why? and do you have any proof?
Regrabbing the ledge naturally leaves you with about 20 frames of vulnerability.
And a longer amount of time when you arent technically on the ledge.
Instant ledge grab reduces the amount of frames of vulnerability you have to technically (as in if you perfectly perform it) 0 to 2 frames. And the amount of time you arent on the ledge to a similar amount of time.
Its a ledge stall, its an excellent way to gimp characters/force them on stage, the only way for characters to stop it is to speed hug.
And a longer amount of time when you arent technically on the ledge.
Instant ledge grab reduces the amount of frames of vulnerability you have to technically (as in if you perfectly perform it) 0 to 2 frames. And the amount of time you arent on the ledge to a similar amount of time.
Its a ledge stall, its an excellent way to gimp characters/force them on stage, the only way for characters to stop it is to speed hug.
Megavitamins
Smash Champion
how many frames does it take to turn around?
I feel that BK is not working on what Overswarm is working on. For one, I'm pretty sure OS is not using b-stick. Of course b-stick's strange buffering properties may actually be another way to do OS's tech, but I doubt it. Again if I completely missed the mark, I'm sorry BK but I just do not understand how what you have been saying = what OS said in the podcast. What is your first language? Somebody on these forums probably speaks your first language, so we may all have a better idea of what you are saying. I have a general idea of what OS is doing. And if it works, f-smash on grab release should work like he said. It might be possible to do OS tech to utilt, and maybe even reverse utilt which would kill a lot earlier.
Edit: Minty, I believe turnaround was 1 frame.
Edit: Minty, I believe turnaround was 1 frame.
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
no B stick was only a fraction of my posts content, it was testing the canceling options during the frames. You can do more the Bsticking during cancel and its options are bad with B sticking so don't bother lol
I understand its really confusing
I understand its really confusing
∫unk
Smash Master
i thought grab release double dash gave you more distance, but i dont think so.
double... dash?
In training grab releases will count as combos until they touch the ground.
MK touches the ground on frame 56.
In training grab releases will count as combos until they touch the ground.
MK touches the ground on frame 56.
∫unk
Smash Master
oh really? im assuming thats why blacknight thinks it works
there is definitely a difference between dashing twice and just running... as in you go farther dashing twice
like you do a really short dash and cancel it with a second dash
it makes me think maybe you can do a sweet spot double dash up b
edit: nevermind i can just buffer my run and i get the 3 hit combo with the GR u-smash
there is definitely a difference between dashing twice and just running... as in you go farther dashing twice
like you do a really short dash and cancel it with a second dash
it makes me think maybe you can do a sweet spot double dash up b
edit: nevermind i can just buffer my run and i get the 3 hit combo with the GR u-smash
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
^ thats what i realized to sadly
the only real diffrence is that with the fox trot the c stick randomly won't start until the second dash making it easier to time.
not sure what its uses really could be though
the only real diffrence is that with the fox trot the c stick randomly won't start until the second dash making it easier to time.
not sure what its uses really could be though
Megavitamins
Smash Champion
OMG
I love mario kart double dash!
I love mario kart double dash!
∫unk
Smash Master
if you announce a technique, and realize later it's wrong, can you please post that you made a mistake instead of wasting me and potentially other people's time testing it?
or better yet, can you fully test techniques before posting?
these are rhetorical questions.
stop. you haven't made a single serious post in this thread. if you want to be bored/random, do it in the general discussion. it's two clicks away from here.
you've had 2 warnings already.
Blacknight99923
Smash Champion
didn't i post this back with the B sticking deal?
I understand my post was not well organized
edit here is the exact paragraph i stated this previously (don't know how to edit post and quote)
this isn't on video so i CANNOT prove by frame but i created a custom stage to measure distance objectivly. its possible to dash and start up smash for same distance if you foxtrot at same point, however if you Do dash flick foward again up on c stick (or foxtrtot up smash) you are given free time to do what you will as it will give a buffering period. I have NO idea if this is in the standard buffering period or if it gives you ADDITIONAL time to buffer. (I am inclined to think the latter do to shield and rolling stated earlier)
V this is new
i understand this isn't clear but what i am saying is when you upsmash at the starting point of foxtrot you get the same distance.
Megavitamins
Smash Champion
HI BLACKKNIGHT
So... how do you play marth in teams? I used to be good with it, not anymore idk
So... how do you play marth in teams? I used to be good with it, not anymore idk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vruQ9WH4sjk
OS does some 0:27-0:30 and the last one is obviously the best example. The only thing I see this as being is initial dash and then a true pivot (phanna's tech) and buffer a turnaround from there to face forward and attack.
However, the only thing that needs to be affirmed is if MK is actually just initial dashing or running. With MK its hard to tell b/c he just glides, and his legs don't move like Marth (too bad he doesn't do one with Marth). One thing to note is that MK does slide a bit when he cancels his run. To me this suggests that OS has something aside from the aforementioned tech, because true pivot would stop all momentum. I hope that OS is truly on to something different, because I can do initial dash>true pivot and it is not something special, and also f-smash on MK is not possible out of grab release with it.
Edit: @Minty I would say Marth is best at stock camping in teams. He doesn't have a good recovery or momentum cancel but his defensive options are so good that he can last quite a while, and still rack on damage. Also it's much safer to use Smashes/single hit moves to punish and not DB because DB lasts too long and there is a chance for punishment. DB full combo should be limited to refreshing moves and punishing things that can not be punished otherwise. DB1 has many functions in teams. Refresh your allies upB if he is close enough, interrupt an opponent's combo on teammate, more hitstun for team combos at close quarters, etc.
OS does some 0:27-0:30 and the last one is obviously the best example. The only thing I see this as being is initial dash and then a true pivot (phanna's tech) and buffer a turnaround from there to face forward and attack.
However, the only thing that needs to be affirmed is if MK is actually just initial dashing or running. With MK its hard to tell b/c he just glides, and his legs don't move like Marth (too bad he doesn't do one with Marth). One thing to note is that MK does slide a bit when he cancels his run. To me this suggests that OS has something aside from the aforementioned tech, because true pivot would stop all momentum. I hope that OS is truly on to something different, because I can do initial dash>true pivot and it is not something special, and also f-smash on MK is not possible out of grab release with it.
Edit: @Minty I would say Marth is best at stock camping in teams. He doesn't have a good recovery or momentum cancel but his defensive options are so good that he can last quite a while, and still rack on damage. Also it's much safer to use Smashes/single hit moves to punish and not DB because DB lasts too long and there is a chance for punishment. DB full combo should be limited to refreshing moves and punishing things that can not be punished otherwise. DB1 has many functions in teams. Refresh your allies upB if he is close enough, interrupt an opponent's combo on teammate, more hitstun for team combos at close quarters, etc.
Megavitamins
Smash Champion
Yeah, camping is all Marth really can do...
Thanks Cross, that really helped. Btw, you going to heeros? I wanna play you again, you're pretty good
Thanks Cross, that really helped. Btw, you going to heeros? I wanna play you again, you're pretty good
Yeah I plan to go. Double Marth team? lol that would be hilarious, if you are willing to take a risk. If not, $1-3 MM? Btw Minty I saw you do the Grab release>dair tech chase to Grab release>dair>d-smash at Poly. Do you think Grab release>dair works? I mean I can do it to but I don't know for sure if they can get out, and it looked pretty legit when you did it against iKon
Megavitamins
Smash Champion
Lol i'm Teaming with PD for that. I'll be happy to mm, should be fun.
I think it works, I just can't do it consistently. if you wanna test it, have somebody just mash u-air lolz. Ikon could have gotten out if he knew to u-air out of it cuz I can't do it fast enough ><
I think it works, I just can't do it consistently. if you wanna test it, have somebody just mash u-air lolz. Ikon could have gotten out if he knew to u-air out of it cuz I can't do it fast enough ><
Megavitamins
Smash Champion
When u dair ur pretty much on top of him, so horizontal rangfe isnt much of a factor i dun think -.-
nah, I'm probably gonna go marth / mk and hell go w/e
nah, I'm probably gonna go marth / mk and hell go w/e
Is this grab release dair thing on meta knight?
That is DEFINITELY real.
Its just one of those insanely technically difficult things to do.
That is DEFINITELY real.
Its just one of those insanely technically difficult things to do.
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
Don't really have a rapport with him, he mentioned it on a podcast we both did, but it SEEMS that BK is exploiting the same mechanics, I did a podcast with him a while back where he mentioned it.
Megavitamins
Smash Champion
Pretty sure this is what OS is doing:
Dash, pivot backwards normally (just hold one side, then hit another), then canceling the laggy pivot animation with a quick turnaround
Dash, pivot backwards normally (just hold one side, then hit another), then canceling the laggy pivot animation with a quick turnaround
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
So, how many people consciously vary the timing of their fair when they're in fair spacing? Just, stay in range a bit, and vary the timing, sometimes doing it on the first possible frame, other times doing it like 9 frames later, other times doing it midway through, etc?
Cause I've been hearing a lot of people saying they can reliably PS the fair.
Cause I've been hearing a lot of people saying they can reliably PS the fair.
clowsui
Smash Legend
i change the timing a lot but the problem is that if you don't attack immediately the opponent often has a chance to respond
adumbrodeus
Smash Legend
And then they get faired, assuming you're properly spaced, you should only really have to worry about them walking forward and doing something. It doesn't have to be massive, all you're trying to do is miss the PS timing.
Mixing up the timing of your fairs also requires you to have good control of your aerial mobility.