Marth match-up thread

[ShadowLink84]

You don't need to hit snake when he recovers from the bottom.

Just grab him without attacking him and Snake loses the ability to ^B.
From above just Fair/Nair him/ I prefer Nair since it hits twice so if Snake dodges the first he can possibly get hit by the second.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Just so everyone knows, I explain how to fight each character with Marth on the first page. I update it with 3 characters a day.

 

[JesiahTEG]

Emblem Lord, for the DK matchup, I believe it's even. He can edgeguard Marth well, and his Up B is hard to edgeguard. His range is even to Marth's and believe it or not he outranges marth with his Down B, which you could say "just jump over it" but it's much harder than it seems. Honestly, I am standing just out of the range where I can tipper DK, and I will get hit by that. I think the main thing that makes this match up even is the equality in range, mainly Ftilt and down B. We have 2 good DK players here, and I find the match up very difficult.

I think it should be changed to 5:5

 

[alchfilosofer]

^
who knows, after all i find d-air an awesome move against DK up-B

 

[Emblem Lord]

Range is definitely a factor to consider since DK does outrange Marth. But also DK lags a bit on his f-tilt, so it's not all that safe.

Once Marth gets in DK is more limited in what he can do safely. The main thing I'm also looking at is kill moves. DK's kill moves are telegraphed so they can be avoid pretty easily. D-smash isn't telegraphed as much, but it's more close range then his f-smash.

And I find that Marth can edgeguard DK more easily then DK can edgeguard him.

It's close, but I'll give Marth the slight edge.

For now anyway.

Also about down b. I have to look at that move more, since I don't know how much DK lags after it or how vulnerable he is. But yes you can SH approach to get around it.

 

[angdia]

lololololololol

 

[meepxzero]

just drop down and counter dks recovery and hes just eating free dmg everytime he goes for the ledge >_>. DKs ftilt out ranges a lotta marths attack but u can shield and forward b it.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Yeah DK lags quite a bit on that f-tilt. Marth can rush down pretty hard on him.

Never thought TA would look at this. lol.

Also angdia, I'm inclined to agree with you now.

Wolf is pretty one dimensional and you get used to his stuff and fighting style after awhile. Then you realize he is good, but not ungodly. Falco and Snake, Marth, MK, and Toon Link are definitely a level above him from what I have seen and studied. He is still really good though.

 

[meepxzero]

eh i like to read other peoples opinions about marth... At least ones that know what they are talkin about >_>.

Marth is almost exactly where he was when melee came around. In the right hands he can be a monster.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Well, good stuff repping Marth in tourney. I always see your name in MD/VA tournies and you place well with him.

Makes me happy since it seems like every high caliber player I talk to seems convinced that he sucks or w/e.

Then can believe what they want though since we both know Marth has the tools to do well in tourney.
Feel free to read anything I have written and use that knowldge to pwn in tourney.

^_^

 

[alchfilosofer]

eh i like to read other peoples opinions about marth... At least ones that know what they are talkin about >_>.

Marth is almost exactly where he was when melee came around. In the right hands he can be a monster.

I know. I mean, he has like no useless move (except from grab), can counter, break shields, break combos (up B FTW), punish doges (dancing blade), some earth range and priority, some killer power whit many moves, awesome aerials, many anti camping options, speed, and tons of sweet tricks.

I think to be able master marth really takes skill cause he has no sucky moves and few godly ones, not to mention all strategies and put them at work.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Bump for great justice.

 

[OmegaXF]

Lotion in hand sir

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

wow on the infinite vs. ness. in the luigi matchup, could you post how to DI the fsmash? i find that up/towards the stage (as you would usually DI most fsmashes) gets you launched almost straight up. So, is it DI up/away from the stage or something?

great stuff.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Added.

10chars/

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

^ All right I know I am going to sound like a uber-noob, but I have been seeing it a lot but what does 10 char/ mean?

 

[Emblem Lord]

You need to write out at least 10 letters/numbers/etc to be able to post.

So when people write something short, they sometimes put 10chars.

It's just a way to kind of poke fun of the system requirments.

 

[TKD+ITA+Mar=]

Oh ok thank you, at first I thought it had something to do with 10 charizards. Apparently I was wrong. =)

 

[GamerGuitarist7]

hey emblem, can i add you on AIM?

 

[Torn]

ANOTHER Emblem_Lord thread full of useful information.

I know. I mean, he has like no useless move (except from grab), can counter, break shields, break combos (up B FTW), punish doges (dancing blade), some earth range and priority, some killer power whit many moves, awesome aerials, many anti camping options, speed, and tons of sweet tricks.

I think to be able master marth really takes skill cause he has no sucky moves and few godly ones, not to mention all strategies and put them at work.

They say that Marth's range (one of his most appealing aspects) has been nerfed coming into Brawl. They say it's noticeable when you put down Brawl and pop Melee into your Wii.

The floaty quality of Brawl's physics system helps make Marth's aggressive fastfalling and shorthopping (easier now than in Melee) more apparent and absolutely wrecks less-skilled players.

Oh, the reason I quoted this nice fellow here was just to mention in passing that Marth's grab is not his only terrible move - his jab is right up there as well. Luckily, Dancing Blade and his D-tilt completely (COMPLETELY) eliminate the need for a jab at all.

Just saying that this post is completely accurate, well-reasoned, and all true: Marth is an amazingly technically demanding character, but used well (SHFF double fairs, ledgehopping into a FF'd nair, tipper f-smashing, and SHFFing RARs) is an absolute beast; Marth definitely deserves his stop near the very top of the high tier.

Also, the original intent of my post was to call attention to the smile-worthy fact that 75% of the substantive threads made in the Marth forums have Emblem_Lord under their title.

I just wanted to take this opportunity in one of his threads (1 out of 750 lololol) to thank him for the tremendous effort that Emblem_Lord has put forth not only to advance Marth's metagame (as if he needs it lolwut?) but to enrich the community with a slew of absolutely indispensable data.

The stuff about Marth's character is just there to stay on topic.

So thanks, man, I hope to have some interactions with you in the future.

Torn

 

[alchfilosofer]

^
sorry i forget about jab (cause i never use it), but like you say whit d-tilt and dancing **** there is no need for jab.

And Emblem Lord DO take seriously take some effort on marth's metagame. He deserves respect.

 

[VersatileBJN]

7/3 Marth vs Ike?

lolz

EL we're definitely playing soon. At the weeklies and on wifi.

6/4 Marth I can see, though.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ike sucks. ^_^

Up b out of jab combo all day son.

GamerGuitarist7: Feel free to add me on AIM.

 

[VersatileBJN]

lols we'll see

u cant up B while being hit by jab combo btw...ive tested this a bunch of times.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Don't matter.

So that means Ike has one good move on him?

Man, I really need to just walk into the Ike forums and advance his Metagame already.

I know you guys need some help. XD

 

[VersatileBJN]

Sure it matters. Ike can punish sword dance everytime with it as well as a misplaced nair,nair,up B, etc.

and all of Ike's good moves work vs Marth as well....

Games tomorrow or what? I'll record. Should be good matches. Ike on Marth plz.

and no we don't need help from someone who thinks Bowser does better against Marth than Ike haha.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ok.

But even if I lose Marth is still superior so it's cool.

****, I really am an ******* huh?

LOL.

 

[VersatileBJN]

thats not even right man

not even right at all

 

[Ciel~Image]

Hey man, could you talk about Marth vs. Sheik a bit?

I need to destroy my cocky Shiek-playing friend and your insights are always helpful.

 

[Emblem Lord]

What exactly is giving you trouble?

How does your friend play? How do you play?

Also changed some ratios a bit on the first page.

 

[Ciel~Image]

Well, I wasn't wanting specific advice or anything, just a general summary of the matchup like you do with the other characters. Just hearing your take on their strengths and weaknesses against each other would be cool.

 

[BacklashMarth]

Wow, i remember the days when shiek was my marth's worst enemy. Not so much anymore. Emblem lord probably will answer but i add a little anyway. Pretty much you need to figure out how the shiek will play. Will they bait you with needles until they can dash in for a grab or an attack? If so, short hop, fair and close in. Watch out for shieks dash move since it is ridiculously fast. Stay close to the floor because shiek's aerials have good kill and juggle potential. If you get knocked offstage, watch for her to hop offstage and fair you in the face. I hate when that move lands so i try to counter when safe and or time a fair or dolphin slash to hit her away. Ask emblem lord how to deal with this better since i don't have much more to add.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Did 3 more matches plus Shiek.

 

[∫unk]

Emblem, this thread is developing into something really useful and awesome. Congrats.

My friend is developing a really good metaknight... SO !@#$ING ANNOYING. Can't play my playstyle at all. Have to stay on the ground and camp. Lame.

Also question: Certain characters (Meta, Luigi, Mario come to mind) seem to be able to chain 3-4+ hits on Marth. I don't have enough time to airdodge (trust me I'm trying) and just doing normal DI away from the attack. Is there something I should be doing different?

 

[Emblem Lord]

What is it that they are chaining on you?

I need specifics so that I know exactly how to help you.

 

[∫unk]

What is it that they are chaining on you?

I need specifics so that I know exactly how to help you.

Luigi and Mario: Uair and Nair usually. Just a bunch of hits when I'm at 0%.
Meta: Not nearly as bad, but there's some annoying things like dash attack -> Usmash. Sometimes on recovery he'll do an Fair which I'll dodge, then hit with another aerial before I can even airdodge again.

 

[Emblem Lord]

I see no reason why they should be able to chain anything after those moves as far as Luigi and Mario are concerned. But then again ALL characters have maybe 2 to 3 moves that link to other things and there isn't much you can do. At low percents you will probably just eat the hits. But once you get to higher percents you really don't have to worry anymore.

With MK, remember that you can DI while airdodging and you also have a counter so try messing with your DI our using counter on his aerials. Also try messing around wtih up b and see if that brings you any success.

With Luigi and Mario, you can try different DI or up bing. You might want to try DIing back and just hitting them. Remember that you do outrange them.

 

[jmanup85]

Luigi and Mario: Uair and Nair usually. Just a bunch of hits when I'm at 0%.
Meta: Not nearly as bad, but there's some annoying things like dash attack -> Usmash. Sometimes on recovery he'll do an Fair which I'll dodge, then hit with another aerial before I can even airdodge again.

luigi and mario's uair should only hit you twice at most and after that its a free counter if they persist with the attack and if they dont you should be in the clear and also be wary of luigi's nair after his uair since he will have time to use it before he lands just incase he thinks you will charge in but if you properly space a fair then that should take care of that problem

 

[Emblem Lord]

Added 2 more match-ups. Might change Marth vs Samus to 7:3 Marth.

Been thinking about it and she really isn't good and has nothing on him besides her Zair really.

 

[Lord Aether]

Any reason why Ike/Marth was changed to 6:4 Marth (from 7:3 Marth, which seemed to make a lot more sense)?
I'm not trying to argue, but I'm just curious.